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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Nickeris86 on July 22, 2010, 06:03:13 PM

Title: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on July 22, 2010, 06:03:13 PM
I have been a huge fantasy/science fiction nerd for a long time and if I have learned one thing from playing table top RPG's is that if the party meets a hot elf someone is going to try and boink it resulting in a Half-elf running around. now i have no problem with cross species breeding's most of the time if the physiology is compatible. since this may be an issue in one of my books i wanted to see what others had to say about it.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Thrythlind on July 22, 2010, 06:24:28 PM
In most of my books, the body is mutable aspect of the soul as expressed through the mind.  We only remain incapable of changing because we fail to believe that changing is possible.

Also, I tend to operate on what I call the "template" theory of fantasy evolution: ie, if a particular person becomes powerful enough then they become the template for a new subspecies or species...the alterations they've created in themselves is passed on to their children

this is even perceptible in normal people, as a skilled martial artist will likely (not certainly) pass on a talent to their children and then that will be further enhanced by upbringing...

IE: I believe in equal parts nature and nurture...with talent being largely nature and skill being largely nurture

this particular concept means that pretty much any species is capable of interbreeding with any other, as long as those species are sentient enough to believe that it is possible...or even just hope so strongly that it is
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 22, 2010, 07:32:57 PM
It doesn't matter what your rules are provided that they are consistent and make sense, and also that if you are going to make them work magically/non-realistically you make it a different paradigm rather than screwing around with some feeble explanation of how "but DNA turns out to really work this way" when DNA doesn't. 
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Thrythlind on July 22, 2010, 08:44:56 PM
It doesn't matter what your rules are provided that they are consistent and make sense, and also that if you are going to make them work magically/non-realistically you make it a different paradigm rather than screwing around with some feeble explanation of how "but DNA turns out to really work this way" when DNA doesn't. 

what I said without succumbing to rant mode

^_^;;;;;
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Aakaakaak on July 22, 2010, 11:12:29 PM
It depends on your definition of breeding. If you're talking about the traditional method then it would be limited. (If you're going with standard theory, but remember, this is sci-fi. There really aren't any rules.) If you're including bio-engineering we're already splicing fish with plants. Glofish include a coral gene that make them glow under black/bluelight. Several other "splices" exist.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: The Corvidian on July 28, 2010, 03:22:07 AM
The plumbing might be compatible, but there would be no offspring.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on July 28, 2010, 06:52:54 PM
The plumbing might be compatible, but there would be no offspring.

your reasoning?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Apocrypha on July 29, 2010, 12:12:05 AM
I think they might be saying, on a technical level, that even though the parts fit, the DNA might not be compatible to produce viable offspring.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on July 29, 2010, 01:54:51 AM
Depends. Are humans and the others all actually one species? I mean, look at the wild genetic variation in the human species as we know it; is it really that much of a stretch to think that humans, dwarves and elves might be the same species after all, just with environmentally-selected evolution intervening?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: arcanist on July 29, 2010, 02:29:21 AM
its not unknown for two species to create a third. the problem is that the third is mosatly sterile. the onlys ones i know of though is the donmkey and the horse [mule] and lion and tiger [liger]. or you could make it the differrence between two breeds of dogs, but i think that that would be closer to the difference between native americans and aboriganal australians. hope i havnt offended anyone.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 29, 2010, 02:01:18 PM
I think as long as they are humanoid it wouldn't be questioned.

But how do Centaurs, Minotaurs, Satyrs, and Mermaids get here?  :P

(http://evilcycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/weird-guy-and-his-horse.jpg)(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/11/500x_bull_grand_am.jpg)(http://www.atlascorps.org/UserFiles/Image/goat%20and%20man.jpg)(http://swittersb.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/man-carp-a.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 29, 2010, 03:27:40 PM
It depends on your definition of breeding. If you're talking about the traditional method then it would be limited. (If you're going with standard theory, but remember, this is sci-fi. There really aren't any rules.)

I would be inclined to say that one of the definitons of the boundary between SF and fantasy is that there are rules of some sort.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 29, 2010, 03:47:23 PM
I would be inclined to say that one of the definitons of the boundary between SF and fantasy is that there are rules of some sort.

huh? I didn't realize that one fiction genre had stircter rules than another. Since it's all....... fictional.

Granted people have different opinions on how fictional ideas should function.

This could get really technical too because species in the strict scientific definition is the lowest classification on the scale.

For example, Homo Sapien and Homo Hablis, were Sapien and Hablis is the species, therefore by CROSS SPECIES, it would have to be anything in the Genus Homo.

There is another misnomenclature which is RACE. Many use race in place of ethnic background, but race refers to an entire species such as the HUMAN RACE.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 29, 2010, 04:03:07 PM
The question is are Elves and Dwarves in the Genus Homo, if yes than cross species is definitely possible, but if they are in lets say Genus Australopithecus, it would be questionable because that signifies a split were the DNA becomes significantly different, though both are still in the Family Hominidae.


As for extraterrestrial aliens, well that would get really questionable, and in my opinion would be as likely as a horse and crocodile having offspring. But can easily be remedy with some simple writing, such as their home planet is physiologically identical to earths and therefore life evolved much the same as earth and reproduction is compatible.

But like I said, it's fiction, no one really question how Facehuggers really work, how they inseminate a being and take on the host's DNA. How do Predators breed? I've never seen a female Predator in the movies, not that I know of. The point is I don't think anyone would be turned away by cross race breeding as long as there is some simple explanation of how it's possible. It's not like anyone can really prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 29, 2010, 04:20:06 PM
Here is the really tricky one though, not cross race, but cross beings, such as Vampires, Ghosts, Demons, etc.

Vampires were once human, now undead, should they be able to breed?

(click to show/hide)

And wheter you are a fan or not, you can't deny that it is a successful franchise.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 29, 2010, 04:56:25 PM
huh? I didn't realize that one fiction genre had stircter rules than another.

Look at the Harlequin Romance guidelines for authors sometime.  Those things follow a strict formula down to what has to happen on which page.

Quote
This could get really technical too because species in the strict scientific definition is the lowest classification on the scale.

Not really; subspecies and varieties are recognised in some clades also. (Trust me, I wrestle with taxonomy as part of my dayjob.)

I'm not going to touch the correct usage of the word "race" with two Lech Walesas end-to-end, save to point out that Shakespeare uses it in The Tempest to mean one person;s family, ancestors and descendants.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 29, 2010, 05:09:51 PM
Look at the Harlequin Romance guidelines for authors sometime.  Those things follow a strict formula down to what has to happen on which page.

Not really; subspecies and varieties are recognised in some clades also. (Trust me, I wrestle with taxonomy as part of my dayjob.)

I'm not going to touch the correct usage of the word "race" with two Lech Walesas end-to-end, save to point out that Shakespeare uses it in The Tempest to mean one person;s family, ancestors and descendants.

Well those guidelines are set by that publication company, it's not really the same as general set of rules for an entire genre, especially a genre about aliens, wizards, dragons, vampires, etc. There really aren't rules there, just good theories that fans will agree with.

And yeah I know subspecies etc etc. That's kind of splitting hairs don't you think. Besides I think different groups general recognize a different biological classification systems. Most I think now use the 9 tier system, but I believe some still use as low as a 6 tier system.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 29, 2010, 05:39:21 PM
Well those guidelines are set by that publication company, it's not really the same as general set of rules for an entire genre, especially a genre about aliens, wizards, dragons, vampires, etc. There really aren't rules there, just good theories that fans will agree with.

Perhaps, but you will lose a lot of SF readers by presenting something as SF that fundamentally fails to make sense.

Quote
And yeah I know subspecies etc etc. That's kind of splitting hairs don't you think.

Oh, very much so. But if you can't split hairs as a professional taxonomist, when can you split them ?

Quote
Besides I think different groups general recognize a different biological classification systems. Most I think now use the 9 tier system, but I believe some still use as low as a 6 tier system.

To hold the NCBI taxonomic tree for eukaryotic life searchably in memory, as of a couple of months ago, takes a minimum of 27 tiers plus one sod of a lot of sideways thinking to get around the bits where different subclades use different structures.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on July 29, 2010, 05:48:04 PM
muahahahah i love this  ;D

MoSeS, in the book series of Alien vs. Predator they actually do describe the mating habits of predators. Females are much larger, stronger and fiercer than males (the predator mane character actually reminisces about getting thrown across a room by his mate while doing the horizontal monster mash). males hunt in order to garner the attention of the best females, as far as i can remember there was no monogamy only the best hunters got to mate.

i already figured out how to make vampires work in one of my books its the aliens that are giving me difficulty. my main character as he progresses through the series garners the attentions of two alien women who are humanoid but not human looking by far (one's species evolved from plants and the other evolved from felines). its long and complicated on how he got in this situation so i won't go into it. however i wanted to have at least one of his alien relationships to result in offspring as part of the over all plot of the series. i know how both species breed i just am trying to find a realistic reason why they would get pregnant.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 29, 2010, 05:59:14 PM
however i wanted to have at least one of his alien relationships to result in offspring as part of the over all plot of the series. i know how both species breed i just am trying to find a realistic reason why they would get pregnant.

Massively advanced tech put to the service of getting a kid ?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 29, 2010, 06:22:28 PM
Perhaps, but you will lose a lot of SF readers by presenting something as SF that fundamentally fails to make sense.

Exactly! that's why i said "theories that fans will agree with"
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 29, 2010, 07:24:16 PM
Exactly! that's why i said "theories that fans will agree with"

But I'm not talking about "I like this", I am talking about "the logic of this holds".  These are different criteria.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Thrythlind on July 29, 2010, 08:10:58 PM
huh? I didn't realize that one fiction genre had stircter rules than another. Since it's all....... fictional.

Granted people have different opinions on how fictional ideas should function.




The best break down of science fiction vs fantasy that I've seen is:

Science Fiction is the fiction of what could happen

Fantasy is the fiction of what can't happen

Science Fiction tends to be speculative and try to stay within the bounds of science.

Fantasy tends to be metaphorical and tends to make its own bounds.

X-Men, Spider Man and Superman, for example, are largely Fantasy rather than sci-fi, even if the cloak their magic in psuedo-scientific babble and terms like mutants and aliens.

Batman and Iron Man, however, taken on their own are largely Science Fiction.  Though Iron-Man starts to cross the line with what his suit can do.

There is some bleed over, especially when you reach the level of technology that might as well be magic, but, for the most part that is the difference.

In a hard science-fiction, two separate species, even if built on the same basic theory of reproduction, would not be able to reproduce in most cases unless they are very closely related species. Now, this is not to say that hybridization is not more common than we think it is.  Snakes can successfully interbreed (a real potential concern given a flood of big constrictors that got released in Florida by a hurricane a few years back).  Bees have interbred (killer bees anyone?).  And not all of the liger and tion offspring are sterile.  Still, it is difficult.  Note that Spock in Star Trek was apparently produced with a great deal of help from Vulcan and Earth scientists.  (Next Generation got a bit looser with producing hybrids than the original series did).

By contrast, in a fantasy, interspecies romances will work if the author says they'll work.

For example, in most of my works, there's no difference in my eyes between the soul of a human and the soul of a demon.  Maybe it's the God-Forgives-Christian in me, but I tend to operate under the assumption a soul is a soul is a soul and that we're all essentially related through that one fact and that the workings of our bodies are merely the expressions of the assumptions and beliefs of that soul.

If a fantasy story has need of a hybrid character, then such a character exists and such a character is possible to exist.  The possibility fits the need of the story and you have a much easier time explaining it believably.

Now, what the mixed blood is a metaphor of, if anything, depends on the individual reader.  Meaning like that might be something the writer thinks he has a say in, but the meaning the writer sees is the meaning that makes sense to him or her given their own life experiences to that point.  A reader with a different set of experiences gains a widely different view on the matter
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 29, 2010, 09:06:40 PM
In a hard science-fiction, two separate species, even if built on the same basic theory of reproduction, would not be able to reproduce in most cases unless they are very closely related species.

Seriously, the whole notion of "species" is a pre-Darwinian holdover; the closer you look at it, the fuzzier the edges get.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Thrythlind on July 29, 2010, 09:10:50 PM
Seriously, the whole notion of "species" is a pre-Darwinian holdover; the closer you look at it, the fuzzier the edges get.

there is a breaking point of definite difference though...especially when do things like count the chromosomes of a DNA strand and compare with another species of similar build and find that they're different
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 30, 2010, 01:45:46 PM
But I'm not talking about "I like this", I am talking about "the logic of this holds".  These are different criteria.

I concede, good point.

Science Fiction is the fiction of what could happen

Fantasy is the fiction of what can't happen

I see now, very good explanation.

@Nickeris86
I heard the AVP books were amazing, and the newest Predators adaptation by Trouble Maker studios is trying to go back to the roots of the first two movies, and get away from the AVP adaptations.

With that said, I tend to find the Intergalctic breeding of most Sci-Fi to be less believable than breeding with Fantasy races such as Elves and Dwarves.

Because the later would be Earthling, I think the would be way more likely to produce offspring with a Human than a Nebari or Klingon or ET. Granted these are all bad examples since I don't think they have ever produced offspring in any of the fiction, but I can't think of any alien/human hybrid at the moment.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 30, 2010, 03:37:26 PM
there is a breaking point of definite difference though...especially when do things like count the chromosomes of a DNA strand

That phrase in a published book would be a fairly strong indication to me that the writer does not know molecular biology from a hole in the ground; it's on a par with the Northern English writer of Westerns who mentioned setting up a campfire overnight with coyotes circling in the sky overhead.

Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 30, 2010, 03:38:16 PM
With that said, I tend to find the Intergalctic breeding of most Sci-Fi to be less believable than breeding with Fantasy races such as Elves and Dwarves.

May I ask what SF you are actually reading here ?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on July 30, 2010, 04:17:59 PM
May I ask what SF you are actually reading here ?

Actually I was just making a general statement toward any alien/human offspring, but at the moment I am having difficulty actually recalling any, but I am sure there has been, I just can't think of any.

I found a small list of alien children in film, but no human/alien hybrids, besides Species(title), and that's not like normal reproduction. I just know it's been done, it's driving me crazy.
http://www.explore-science-fiction-movies.com/alien-children.html#axzz0vBQCV3ni

*this is relavant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_sexuality_in_speculative_fiction)

Can anyone recall any significant/popular alien-human children?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Apocrypha on July 30, 2010, 06:11:44 PM
Worf from Star Trek the Next Generation had his son with a half-human, half-Klingon woman.

Dianan Troi (also from STNG) was half human and half Betazoid.

My nephew watches a cartoon called Ben-10 that seems to focus on several characters who are half human and half alien.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on July 31, 2010, 04:30:54 PM
i have heard of it being done in SciFi but i can't recall any specifics at this time. oh wait they did it a few times on Andromda with Neechians and Humans. (Neechians looked just like humans but had bone spikes on their forearms)

and on Farscape Luxens could breed with Peacekeepers (which were identical to humans) and one of the main characters had a son who popped up from time to time.

Quote
@Nickeris86
I heard the AVP books were amazing, and the newest Predators adaptation by Trouble Maker studios is trying to go back to the roots of the first two movies, and get away from the AVP adaptations.

the first two are great, but they get kinda repetitive after that. i saw the new Predators movie and i was not that impressed, it was entertaining but they radically changed the mythose of the predators, and changed their behavior radically, they also did something that i thought was rather stupid but won't mention here for spoiler reasons.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 02, 2010, 02:40:32 PM
the first two are great, but they get kinda repetitive after that. i saw the new Predators movie and i was not that impressed, it was entertaining but they radically changed the mythose of the predators, and changed their behavior radically, they also did something that i thought was rather stupid but won't mention here for spoiler reasons.

I don't want to get too off topic, but I actually enjoyed the newest Predator installment. It was by no means AMAZING, but I would say a 8 out of 10 (maybe give or take half a point).

I thought it to be much better than the AVP movies but I already love Trouble Maker studios so I was already inclined to like it anyways, but I also like most of the cast memebers too.

Sadly AVP movies had potential but they turned out to be crap, well the 2nd one really, the 1st was not near as bad.

Paul Anderson, the director of AVP is a decent director.......kind of......well he did a bunch of movies based off of things I love. I loved Soldier w/ Kurt Russell, he also did Mortal Kombat, Event Horizon, Resident Evil, and he returned to direct the 4th Resident Evil. So it's too bad AVP wasn't a little better, I think the cinematography suffered most, 90% of the action scenes I couldn't tell what the hell was happening.

Colin Strause is the guy who directed and killed the AVP franchise. The biggest movie he ever directed was.........wait for it...........AVP: Requim. He is really a Visual Effects guy who has done effects for a bunch of movies, but he isn't a really a director, I don't know what genius at the studio was like, "hey you! visual effects guy, get over here and direct this."

Anyhow I wouldn't mind seeing a more Predator installments, and though Nimród Antal hasn't really directed anything great, I like that he decided to go back to the roots of the first two Predator movies and he even said he wants to get away from the AVP movies because the were getting way over the top and he wants to bring it back to a simpler straightfoward action sci-fi.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on August 02, 2010, 05:41:42 PM
yeah i would prefer if they went back to the predators just hunting us without feeling the need to add more too it,
(click to show/hide)
, that really pissed me off. the formula of us vs. them worked people need to stop trying to fix things that aren't broken and then cocking the whole thing up for everyone.

any way back on topic. when two species do get it on and create a hybrid they usually have strange characteristics , like ligers are freaking huge because they don't develop the gene that tells them to stop getting bigger, or that mules have giant ears, or zehorsea (horse/zebra) has stripy legs but looks like a horse. how would this play over into humanoid hybrids.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Apocrypha on August 02, 2010, 09:29:07 PM
how would this play over into humanoid hybrids.


It can be something as different coloured eyes or even oddly shaped eyes to different coloured skin or hair or even pointed ears, ridged noses, whatever you want but always be consistent.  If special abilities are involved try to mingle them in but don't forget to balance it with a bit of a drawback.  If a species can see in the dark then perhaps the offspring can also see in the dark but perhaps not as clearly or for as great a distance.

If Human mates with species A and creates B then you need to be consistent that all B's generally have the same characteristics to signify a stable breeding which to me seems more plausible.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 03, 2010, 01:27:45 PM
Yeah, I think it wouldn't be hard to make cross species plausible. As long as the story is good I think any sort of halfling character would be accepted.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 03, 2010, 02:51:53 PM
Yeah, I think it wouldn't be hard to make cross species plausible.

If you had different species of humans as closely related as lions and tigers or horses and donkeys, maybe.

If you have something that evolved on another planet, you'll have an uphill battle convincing anyone who knows any biology that it even uses DNA, let alone that it can breed with a human.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 03, 2010, 03:11:34 PM
If you had different species of humans as closely related as lions and tigers or horses and donkeys, maybe.

If you have something that evolved on another planet, you'll have an uphill battle convincing anyone who knows any biology that it even uses DNA, let alone that it can breed with a human.

True, but I think most people will just accept that it's fiction and only a handful of readers, like maybe 1%, will actually go hey "how can that alien and human breed". Moreover, I think it would be ironic that they would be concerned with the breeding but not even flinch at the idea and existance of aliens.....hmmmm....

I would love for someone to tell me "un-uh, a Na'Vi can't mate with a human because their genes aren't compatible"

There are so many responses to that. Such as "sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the Na'Vi aren't real" or "are you effing kidding me, prove it"

I am a nerd, but I have to draw the line somewhere, when it comes to fantasy sci-fi breeding, I say anything goes.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 03, 2010, 03:29:27 PM
What would Jabba the Hut and Princess Leia's children have looked like?
(http://thebsreport.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/fat-man.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 03, 2010, 04:44:56 PM
True, but I think most people will just accept that it's fiction and only a handful of readers, like maybe 1%, will actually go hey "how can that alien and human breed".

Well, most people don't want to read SF in the first place, because for some reason they find worlds exactly like ours in every respect except for a bunch of non-existent normal people doing non-existent normal things more plausible than one with a large sweeping consistent set of changes.

Quote
Moreover, I think it would be ironic that they would be concerned with the breeding but not even flinch at the idea and existance of aliens.....hmmmm....

Are you serious ?

In a universe this big, with physical laws and chemistry working this way, the hard thing to sell is that there aren't aliens.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 03, 2010, 06:25:26 PM
I am not debating wether or not aliens exist, that would be a whole different thread.

What I am saying is for those who read fiction involving extraterrestrial beings shouldn't have too many qualms with believing that one of said beings could mate with a human.

And that the fiction could easily be written to make mating plausible.

For example: the alien technology makes breeding possible
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 03, 2010, 06:38:24 PM
One the problems I run into when trying to find good examples of aliens, is that if you google Hottest Alien (sounds crazy), anyhow you will get list of aliens that all look human.

I know there are non-human looking aliens, like in Star Wars, Star Trek, Farscape, etc.
I can only find a few examples though, like Chiane from Farscape. But I guess my problem is I am looking only for female aliens because I am a dude. I guess I should think of it both ways.

IMO it would be plausible that some of these would be able to mate with humans, as long as anatomy were compatible.

Now, physical form is going to make it improbable for many human-alien couples. For example, how would ET mate with a human. (this is getting weird now)

Anyhow, the simple solution in this case is ET touches a woman on the stomach with that glowy finger, and BAM she's magically pregnant with an ET baby.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 03, 2010, 07:18:11 PM
What I am saying is for those who read fiction involving extraterrestrial beings shouldn't have too many qualms with believing that one of said beings could mate with a human.

I am still querying why.  One of them is "I accept this as the premise of a book". The other is "logical consequence of aliens existing". Very different scales.

Quote
And that the fiction could easily be written to make mating plausible.
For example: the alien technology makes breeding possible

Which is like saying "the alien technology  provides infinite free energy". It's not plausible just because you declare it, not unless you explain or demonstrate enough of how it works.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 03, 2010, 07:19:10 PM
One the problems I run into when trying to find good examples of aliens, is that if you google Hottest Alien (sounds crazy), anyhow you will get list of aliens that all look human.
I know there are non-human looking aliens, like in Star Wars, Star Trek, Farscape, etc.
I can only find a few examples though, like Chiane from Farscape. But I guess my problem is I am looking only for female aliens because I am a dude. I guess I should think of it both ways.

If the only SF you're interested in is as biologically implausible as those examples, I think we may be arguing on different scales.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on August 03, 2010, 07:32:59 PM
Quote
Which is like saying "the alien technology  provides infinite free energy". It's not plausible just because you declare it, not unless you explain or demonstrate enough of how it works.

why is saying that alien technology provides infinite free energy unbelievable . you are assuming that these races evolved technologically along the same lines as humans. there is a very interesting documentary done by this physicist and his theory is that advanced races may have technology so vastly different from ours that what we think of as advanced science could be a infants toy to them. free infinite energy is not outside the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 04, 2010, 01:34:39 PM
I am still querying why.  One of them is "I accept this as the premise of a book". The other is "logical consequence of aliens existing". Very different scales.

Which is like saying "the alien technology  provides infinite free energy". It's not plausible just because you declare it, not unless you explain or demonstrate enough of how it works.

I accept this as the premise of a book. This is what I am talking.

logical consequence of aliens existing. I think that would be a different thread.

If the only SF you're interested in is as biologically implausible as those examples, I think we may be arguing on different scales.

I think so.

I think you are thinking more realistically of actual aliens and the improbability of them being able to mate.

I am thinking of fiction. I am thinking totally make-believe beings, having totally make-believe sex, and having make-believe babies. Just for fictions sake.

I think if we want to debate the existance of real aliens and their tech, we should probably start a different thread (or maybe in a different forum like http://www.alien-ufos.com/ (http://www.alien-ufos.com/))
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 04, 2010, 01:38:10 PM
Combind with other post for coherence. ;D
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 04, 2010, 01:44:31 PM
why is saying that alien technology provides infinite free energy unbelievable . you are assuming that these races evolved technologically along the same lines as humans. there is a very interesting documentary done by this physicist and his theory is that advanced races may have technology so vastly different from ours that what we think of as advanced science could be a infants toy to them. free infinite energy is not outside the realm of possibility.

Infinite energy may not even be that far from reality currently. Take the Super Colliders and the photons/anti-matter or whatever those whacky scientist are working on. Anyways I am no physicists, but it seems that even in reality infinite energy is not that implausible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Large_Hadron_Collider

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_accelerator

The movie The Saint and Chain Reaction, both came out in the 90's i think, and both were about limitless energy.

I don't want to debate that the energy isn't infinite as there is a finite amount of hydrogen on earth, blah blah blah

I'm just saying, it's not too ridiculous to make a movie about it.

I think in most Sci-Fi the aliens have some source of energy that is practical infinite anyways.

I doubt all the Star Wars ship were Diesels.

What about all those alien energy weapons you see in most sci-fi, they have to get energy from something.

What powers a Transformer.

I think these questions all defeat the purpose of Science Fiction media and Author Craft, it's for entertainment.

If it's explained well and plausible, let it ride. (once again, I am not arguing what is plausible, just using this term loosely here)

Moreover, nothing is perfect, personally I could find some way to pick apart any fiction.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 04, 2010, 03:46:11 PM
why is saying that alien technology provides infinite free energy unbelievable . you are assuming that these races evolved technologically along the same lines as humans.

No, I am working on the basis that there are certain fundamental things we know about how the universe works, and if you want to overturn them plausibly, it needs an explanation, not just an assertion.

The law of conservation of energy is not a feature of the technology we have to hand at the moment.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 04, 2010, 03:48:37 PM
I think you are thinking more realistically of actual aliens and the improbability of them being able to mate.
I am thinking of fiction. I am thinking totally make-believe beings, having totally make-believe sex, and having make-believe babies. Just for fictions sake.

I think you are missing my point a little.

If you want me to believe your fiction enough to enjoy it rather than hurl the book across the room with great prejudice, you will apply a reasonable degree of coherent thought to your premise and make it make internal sense.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 04, 2010, 03:55:21 PM
Infinite energy may not even be that far from reality currently. Take the Super Colliders and the photons/anti-matter or whatever those whacky scientist are working on. Anyways I am no physicists, but it seems that even in reality infinite energy is not that implausible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Large_Hadron_Collider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_accelerator

I am familiar with how these work, and converting matter to energy is neither generating energy from nothing nor infinite; large, yes, infinite no.

Quote
The movie The Saint and Chain Reaction, both came out in the 90's i think, and both were about limitless energy.

One could argue that this was part of why they sucked potato soup through a straw..

Quote
I think in most Sci-Fi the aliens have some source of energy that is practical infinite anyways.

I think you are again reading very different SF from what I'm reading. (Come to think of it, calling it "SciFi" is kind of a clue, there.)

Quote
I doubt all the Star Wars ship were Diesels.
What about all those alien energy weapons you see in most sci-fi, they have to get energy from something.
What powers a Transformer.

All these examples are fantasy. Star Wars has the Force.  Transformers have that mystical meteorite thing.

Quote
If it's explained well and plausible, let it ride. (once again, I am not arguing what is plausible, just using this term loosely here)

Of course; this is why I am stalling on things that are neither explained well nor plausible.  (Reasonable recent examples of things I think of as being well explained and plausible, if you're interested in a point of comparison; Greg Egan's Diaspora.  Peter Watts' Blindsight, which you can get for free at the authors' website here: http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm - fair warning, this is not the happiest book in the world.)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 04, 2010, 04:24:39 PM
I am familiar with how these work, and converting matter to energy is neither generating energy from nothing nor infinite; large, yes, infinite no.

Deja Vu, I had a similar discussion about the laws of thermodynamics a few years ago when I was trying out an HHO Generator on my car. The argument was that you can't create energy from nothing, but in that argument they failed to understand that energy wasn't being created, but rather being used more efficiently by using excess energy leaked from the alternator to generate a gas supplement. Anyhow, that's off topic.

All these examples are fantasy. Star Wars has the Force.  Transformers have that mystical meteorite thing.

Ah! Exactly! This is what I was trying to clarify earlier, I was still operating under the assumption Sci Fi was pretty much anything that involves outerspace, aliens, or advance tech.

See that is where I am having trouble drawing the line between the two, because for example, almost everything on SyFy channel is actually fantasy. Is that why they changed their name?

Ok, I think I get I get it now, Sicence Fiction is basically like other fiction like Harlequin Romance, where it is realistic, but the characters and story fictional vs. fantasy where anything goes.

However I think there is a really really fine line there, or blurry line, or whatever.

Do you believe the saying "nothing is impossible (http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/248)"?

Now we have gone from Science Fiction to Philosophy, YAY!
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 04, 2010, 05:28:48 PM
Ah! Exactly! This is what I was trying to clarify earlier, I was still operating under the assumption Sci Fi was pretty much anything that involves outerspace, aliens, or advance tech.

I am working with the notion that SF is defined by inhernetly making logical sense based on its premises, and by being set in universes meant to be understood. 

Quote
See that is where I am having trouble drawing the line between the two, because for example, almost everything on SyFy channel is actually fantasy. Is that why they changed their name?

I have no clue. I've not watched broadcast TV in fourteen years.

Quote
Do you believe the saying "nothing is impossible (http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/248)"?

Not at all.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 04, 2010, 08:07:10 PM
I have no clue. I've not watched broadcast TV in fourteen years.

Really? Does that include shows via like Hulu too? Did you watch DF TV show? I guess it's not that surprising. I went about eight years without really watching "TV", tho i still watched movies.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 01:37:02 AM
Really? Does that include shows via like Hulu too?

I'm in Canada, which Hulu does not service.

I occasionally catch things on DVD, but as timing goes I have just about caught up with I, Claudius.

Quote
Did you watch DF TV show?

Not yet, though it's on the list.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on August 05, 2010, 04:33:03 AM
I'm in Canada, which Hulu does not service.

I occasionally catch things on DVD, but as timing goes I have just about caught up with I, Claudius.

Not yet, though it's on the list.


netflix
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on August 05, 2010, 10:35:45 AM
netflix

Last I checked, lack of time was an issue, so no subscription to Netflix can fix that.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 05, 2010, 02:11:59 PM
You can also watch a lot of shows via the networks site. I don't know about Canada, but I watched It's Always Sunny via FX website, I watched the Pilot of The Gates via ABC website. Those are free.

But yeah I get the time issue. For me I waste way too much time with Video Games when I should be catching up on movies and TV shows, and maybe some good books.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 05, 2010, 02:32:44 PM

Ok, I think I get I get it now, Sicence Fiction is basically like other fiction like Harlequin Romance, where it is realistic, but the characters and story fictional vs. fantasy where anything goes.


Science fiction has to have universe rules that allow the existence of a science.   It doesn't have to be our  science.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 05, 2010, 03:16:27 PM
Well if it a made-up science, doesn't that kind of loop back to Fantasy then?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 05, 2010, 03:25:57 PM
Well if it a made-up science, doesn't that kind of loop back to Fantasy then?

It can, if you don't use the science you've made up as a science within the work you're writing.  

(Merely using technological products such as pulling the trigger on a blaster isn't using a science, it's using a technology.   I would call it tech-fantasy.)

Of course, then you've also just wasted the ton of work and imagination that it takes to actually make up a logical rules science.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on August 05, 2010, 04:12:01 PM
so in a science fiction setting how would you explain something like a hybrid from to different races of sentient beings. would you have to utilize some form of artificial insemination in order to insure a pregnancy or could you go the way of Jurassic Park in that "nature finds a way". and if technology is needed in order to produce viable offspring what kind of tech would be needed.

another question to consider is how these hybrids would be treated in an advanced alien culture.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 05, 2010, 04:32:26 PM
so in a science fiction setting how would you explain something like a hybrid from to different races of sentient beings.

You're asking me to do all that work on the spur of the moment?  ;D  Thanks for the vote of confidence.    I'm not quite that good.   :D

Quote
would you have to utilize some form of artificial insemination in order to insure a pregnancy or could you go the way of Jurassic Park in that "nature finds a way".

Probably neither.   I doubt I could do "hybrids of sentient species" in a logical setting short of ones similar to what David Brin does in his Uplift War series, where the "hybrid" would actually be entirely purposefully created .

That said, the other possibility I see is to fuse completely different forms that have entirely different means of reproduction.    

In other words, I know I could do Frankenstein's monster from parts of species (that actually works well instead of being a lumbering klutz), or a cyborg with both sides sentient.

Quote
another question to consider is how these hybrids would be treated in an advanced alien culture.

That is almost always the default question.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 04:39:07 PM
Last I checked, lack of time was an issue, so no subscription to Netflix can fix that.

Also, does Netflix cover Canada ? Their insta-downloads certainly do not work here, anyway.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 04:40:16 PM
You can also watch a lot of shows via the networks site. I don't know about Canada, but I watched It's Always Sunny via FX website, I watched the Pilot of The Gates via ABC website. Those are free.

And the bulk of these tyhat I have looked up are also not shown in Canada. For copyright reasons, apparently, though I have no understanding of precisely which copyrights apply in the situation.

Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 04:42:25 PM
Well if it a made-up science, doesn't that kind of loop back to Fantasy then?

Not if the scientific method still applies.

The way i most like to think about it is; if the unknown is to be figured out, it's SF.  If the unknown is to be reverentially oohed and aahed over, it's fantasy.  If the unknown is scary and wants to hurt you, it's horror. If the unknown is scary and wants to hurt you and is to be firmly put back in its box at the end so the world stays normal, it;s a techno-thriller (insert rant about how anti-science and generally bad this is here.) If the unkown is totally ignored, it's mainstream.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 04:45:16 PM
so in a science fiction setting how would you explain something like a hybrid from to different races of sentient beings.

You wouldn't.  You'd have someone come up with the notion and other people point at them and lauigh, perhaps...

Quote
could you go the way of Jurassic Park in that "nature finds a way".

That is basically a atstement of faith. Which is fine if you want to build your world based on statements of faith, but what' it's not is logical, sicentific or SF.

Quote
another question to consider is how these hybrids would be treated in an advanced alien culture.

I'd be inclined to think that the answer is either "just like everyone else", "just like everyone else except with allowances made for any quirks of their biology being weird", or "this society does not really qualify as 'advanced'", fwiw.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 05, 2010, 05:52:10 PM
another question to consider is how these hybrids would be treated in an advanced alien culture.

Probably the same way Mulatto kids were treated in the 1950's versus how they were treated in 2000.

I think it would depend on how long they have been part of the culture, but I think this is were an Antropology expert would probably be handy.

I took Antropology and just on Earth alone, people in different coutries, in real life, all treat different ethnic groups in different ways.

Heck you could even bring religion into it. Look at the Middle East, Muslims and Jews killing each other, and some of them may actually be from the same etnic background.

Hybrids would eventual become accepted, but depeneding an how their race views time, it could be a lot longer than the Human time scale.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 05:56:58 PM
Probably the same way Mulatto kids were treated in the 1950's versus how they were treated in 2000.

I think it would depend on how long they have been part of the culture, but I think this is were an Antropology expert would probably be handy.

Only if you want your aliens to have human emotional makeup and think like humans, which is going to blow my suspension of disbelief completely away.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 05, 2010, 05:58:18 PM
Only if you want your aliens to have human emotional makeup and think like humans,

You really didn't like Star Trek, did you?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 05, 2010, 06:22:25 PM
I never really got into Star Trek myself, I caught an episode here and there over the years from various different generations of it, but only because my uncle watched it.

But I did like the newest movie, which I know all the fans probably hated since it pretty much went back in time and made all previous events non-existant. It is one way to revamp a series and bring characters back tho.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 06:27:36 PM
You really didn't like Star Trek, did you?

The thing I really don't like is the number of people in the wider world for whom Star Trek is the primary referent for what SF does and is capable of doing.

I've enjoyed bits of it, and it has been responsible for inspiring at least one really interesting SF setting; the Culture, in the novels of Iain M. Banks, whom he has said were in large part a reaction to the idea that anyone with a heart and a brain could think the Prime Directive was anything other than evil.  (Actually, the way i heard him express that had more swearing, but it was just for emphasis and my paraphrase I think gets the meaning across.)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 05, 2010, 06:29:38 PM
I agree, everything should be compared to Star Wars or Dune.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 06:30:33 PM
I agree, everything should be compared to Star Wars.  :P

It was at this point, Your Honour, that the defendant began the long march southward, with eyes gleaming steely with determination and a large fish raised for the thwacking of the Moses...
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: belial.1980 on August 05, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
It was at this point, Your Honour, that the defendant began the long march southward, with eyes gleaming steely with determination and a large fish raised for the thwacking of the Moses...

Shortly thereafter Moses said, "Good, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 05, 2010, 07:52:33 PM
Shortly thereafter Moses said, "Good, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"

LMAO! Priceless!
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 05, 2010, 08:24:05 PM
Shortly thereafter Moses said, "Good, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"

Hey, I don't have anything to prove concerning which of us is master here.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 01:45:39 PM
Hey, I don't have anything to prove concerning which of us is master here.

Is it better to serve in Heaven or to rule in Hell?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 06, 2010, 02:00:28 PM
Is it better to serve in Heaven or to rule in Hell?

I'm willing to wager neurovore has posted "non serviam" the most number of times of any poster here.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on August 06, 2010, 02:09:30 PM
Is it better to serve in Heaven or to rule in Hell?

Neither. It's best to be kickass on Earth.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 02:27:06 PM
Neither. It's best to be kickass on Earth.

Interesting.

So are Heaven and Hell strictly constructs of Earth and Human souls?

Do other "species" (alien races) have their own heaven and hell?

What about Cross Species Breeds? do they get their own afterlife?

I guess that might require a Religion in Science Fiction thread tho.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 06, 2010, 02:28:55 PM
Interesting.

So are Heaven and Hell strictly constructs of Earth and Human souls?

Do other "species" (alien races) have their own heaven and hell?

What about Cross Species Breeds? do they get their own afterlife?

You're starting to get into territory where folks arch their backs, bristle their fur and bare their fangs.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 03:02:40 PM
You're starting to get into territory where folks arch their backs, bristle their fur and bare their fangs.

Or go write their own novels on the subject.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 03:06:20 PM
Is it better to serve in Heaven or to rule in Hell?

The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heaven:
What matter where, if I be still the same
And what I should be, all but less then He
Whom thunder hath made greater ? Here at least
We shall be free; th'Almighty hath not made
Here for His envy, will not drive us hence.
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 03:20:51 PM
You're starting to get into territory where folks arch their backs, bristle their fur and bare their fangs.

Your absolutely right.

But what you don't know about me is I kind of like to debate religion just to get people all stirred up. Same goes for politics.

I don't really care either way, but getting a rise out of someone is worth it.

The reason I don't care is: Does winning an argument about religion actually accomplish anything? other than self satisfaction for winning an argument.

Same can be said for any nontangible school of thought such as Politics, Art, Literature, Philiosophy, Psychology, Law, etc.

Most of the theories in all of these are opinions, granted there are areas in each that are very applicable and practical, but one can argue what is GOOD ART or BAD ART, or GOOD LIT or BAD, or wheter or not ADD exist or is just made up for lazy parents.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on August 06, 2010, 03:26:16 PM
Your absolutely right.

But what you don't know about me is I kind of like to debate religion just to get people all stirred up. Same goes for politics.

I don't really care either way, but getting a rise out of someone is worth it.

Not here, it isn't. Here, it's worth a short, enforced vacation from the boards.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 03:30:39 PM
Not here, it isn't. Here, it's worth a short, enforced vacation from the boards.

True. Here Religion and Politics are off limits.

What if a person talks about a fictional religion in a fictional story? Does that still count?  :P

I am kidding I am not really going to get into Religion or Politics.

Let's talk about the Economy instead.  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 06, 2010, 03:45:25 PM
Let's talk about the Economy instead.  ;D

May I alternatively suggest the museum of BaaaaaaD  Art?

http://www.museumofbadart.org/

"Indeed, it is not an easy thing to struggle against mighty forces like the giant orange cat consuming humankind. "

http://www.museumofbadart.org/images/u-pop-unseen-8.jpg
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 03:47:55 PM
The reason I don't care is: Does winning an argument about religion actually accomplish anything? other than self satisfaction for winning an argument.

Speaking as someone who has actually converted people, yes it does.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 04:11:44 PM
Speaking as someone who has actually converted people, yes it does.

AH! Good point, i guess people wouldn't spread the gospel if there were no purpose behind it.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on August 06, 2010, 04:50:22 PM
Speaking as someone who has actually converted people, yes it does can on rare occasion.

FIFY. ;D
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 04:57:09 PM
FIFY. ;D

"What do a hundred failures matter, when one success can change the world ?"
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 06, 2010, 05:00:10 PM

"Another such victory, and I am undone"
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on August 06, 2010, 05:02:28 PM
"What do a hundred failures matter, when one success can change the world ?"

In this case, remember the context: one failure can lead to death and destruction on a large scale. Best not.

Plus, the difference between "can" and "do" is what keeps insurance companies and bookies afloat. :D
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 06:25:50 PM
"What do a hundred failures matter, when one success can change the world ?"

This is sort of an ambiguous statment. (or reversible or something)

You could easily argue. (if your a pessimist)

"What do a hundred successes matter, when one failure can change the world?"

But I think the point he is making is that you can't do something unless you try.

"If at first you don't succeed, try and try again"
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on August 06, 2010, 06:45:54 PM
This is sort of an ambiguous statment. (or reversible or something)

You could easily argue. (if your a pessimist)

"What do a hundred successes matter, when one failure can change the world?"

But I think the point he is making is that you can't do something unless you try.

"If at first you don't succeed, try and try again"

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it.
- W. C. Fields
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 06:53:58 PM
But I think the point he is making is that you can't do something unless you try.

Well, my position on the matter in general is not to be taken as setting myself against expressed policy for this board in particular.

Also, not a "he".
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 07:14:52 PM
Also, not a "he".

What!?!?! No Way!

I really thought.........but............you wrote like.............nevermind

And I am not really a firm believer in "try and try again" anyway.

If I got bit by a shark while surfing, I would quit surfing.

And if I fell off a horse......well you all saw what happen to Superman.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 07:47:34 PM
I really thought.........but............you wrote like.............nevermind

My gender is something I generally consider the business of my doctors and such of my partners as it makes a difference to. (Which is not always all of them when one falls for people online.)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 08:07:11 PM
My gender is something I generally consider the business of my doctors and such of my partners as it makes a difference to. (Which is not always all of them when one falls for people online.)

OK. *scratches head* (i don't understand)

*looks around at others in the forum*

Is this statement suppose to be cryptic, or is it just me?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Apocrypha on August 06, 2010, 08:12:15 PM
Hence is the nature of neurovore.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 08:17:09 PM
Is this statement suppose to be cryptic, or is it just me?

The statement of position was not meant to be cryptic.  I do intend my physical gender to be obscured, because it is a matter of some importance to me that in many circumstances it does not matter.  (My doctors, and some but not all of my sweeties, are the major exceptions here.)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: MoSeS on August 06, 2010, 08:30:51 PM
Ok, just checking, I think I was reading too far into it.

But gender also matters to the auto insurance companies too.  :P
(tho you did specify "major exceptions" not "all exceptions")

Women have more fender benders and men have more fatal accidents because they think they are in The Fast and The Furious. Therefore higher rates for men than women, but that tapers off a whole lot as the age gets higher.  :)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 06, 2010, 08:57:15 PM
But gender also matters to the auto insurance companies too.  :P

Good that my sight is too poor to allow me to drive then, isn't it ?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on August 07, 2010, 03:46:47 AM
if at first you don't succeed DESTROY ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU EVER TRIED!! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Shecky on August 07, 2010, 11:42:46 AM
if at first you don't succeed DESTROY ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU EVER TRIED!! ;D ;D

What about witnesses? Bribe or something more permanent?
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Apocrypha on August 07, 2010, 02:19:03 PM
Even if they're bribed they might still give you up for more money.

Never trust anyone who can be bought as there is always a higher price.

So I suggest something more permanent....  ::)
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Figging Mint on August 08, 2010, 04:34:20 PM
Never trust anyone who can be bought as there is always a higher price.

There is a higher price only once.
Title: Re: Cross Species Breeding in fantasy sifi
Post by: Nickeris86 on August 11, 2010, 05:31:19 PM
i don't think witnesses would be a problem when you make two mile wide hole in the ground, most people are just going to look the other way and pray you don't notice them.