ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: crusher_bob on May 04, 2010, 01:32:30 PM
-
Since Deadmanwalking has said he doesn't want other people dumping into his Sample characters thread, I've started this one for my own.
There are several references to 'young wardens' that work for both Harry and Carlos, and how, while technically wardens, they aren't ready for the big time yet. Here's my take on three of them. They are made with refresh 10, but only 25 skill points to represent their inexperience. While they technically have plenty of magical power, they don't really have the experience to take on some of the nastier things out there that usually swing in this weight class. Also, the characters have problems that would probably have prevented they from being made wardens in less desperate times, but that's what you get when you start scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Here's the chronological order of the novels:
Unknown Perpetrators
Higher Education
Passing through Paradise
Thin Grey Line
And our first young warden:
Byron Hall
Background:
Byron was born to a single mom living in the housing projects. Tired of a life of grinding poverty, he joined a gang as the only method of advancement open to him. Of course, the glamour of being in a gang is just a mask for adding more violence to your life of grinding poverty.
Aspect: Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs
Rising Conflict:
After a series of events that Byron will take the Fifth Amendment on, he ended up with a large amount of cocaine, which he intended to use with his newly discovered magical abilities to really start going places. The Wardens arrived a few minutes before the police did, and made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.
Aspect: It’s better than prison
First Novel: Thin Grey Line
The young wardens are committed to their first major battle: a raid against a hive of ghouls. When the ghouls use enchanted devices to split up the attacking force of Wardens, the trainees are left without the backing of the few more experienced wardens. All three young wardens are seriously wounded. Byron is able to protect Jing-Wei long enough for her to use her staff to tear apart the enchanted devices the ghouls used to split up the wardens.
Aspect: You can’t stop a man who knows he’s in the right, and just keeps a coming.
Guest Star: Unknown Perpetrators
Just out of training, Jing-Wei takes the time out to visit some of her old haunts with murder on her mind. Concerned about her mental state, Bryon follows after her. Byron is able to talk her out of breaking the first law, and shows her how wardens should deal with monsters protected by the law: by shooting them.
Aspect: Abashed the Devil stood and felt how awful goodness is.
Guest Star: Higher Education
Investigating the disappearance of several homeless people, Byron discovers that Matthew is working the same case from the other end: a college fraternity that seems to have added human sacrifice to its hazing rituals. Byron becomes committed to protecting the poor and downtrodden from this kind of thing, with all the prejudice that is required.
Aspect: A shepherd among wolves
Aspects:
High Concept: Wizard from the ‘hood
Trouble: Power that can’t make the world a better place ain’t no kind of power at all
Other:
Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs
It’s better than prison
You can’t stop a man who knows he’s in the right, and just keeps a coming.
Abashed the Devil stood and felt how awful goodness is.
A shepherd among wolves
Skills:
Great: Discipline
Good: Contacts, Conviction, Intimidation
Fair: Alertness, Guns, Investigation, Lore
Average: Athletics, Burglary, Endurance, Presence
Stunts:
-1 Resilient Self-Image
-1 I Know Just the Guy
Powers
-1 The Sight
-0 Soulgaze
-0 Wizard’s Constitution
-3 Evocation
-3 Thaumaturgy
Refresh Penalty -9
Specializations:
Evocation (Fire, Earth, Spirit, +1 Fire Power)
Thaumaturgy (+1 Tracking Complexity)
Stuff:
Crystal Orb (Focus Item, +2 Offensive fire control)
Wrist Guard (Focus Item, +1 Defensive fire power and control)
Seriously sawed-off shotgun (Weapon: 3)
Stress:
Mental: OOOO (+1 Minor Mental Consequences)
Physical: OOO
Social: OOO
Armor: Usually none
-
I don't know about your skill box...
Are you sure about putting Lore only up to Fair? This is a very important skill for a Wizard. In my opinion you should consider lowering Intimidation and/or Contacts in favor of Lore and Alertness. After all you want to play a Warden Wizard of the Wight Council. How will you know about the supernatural baddies when you are without a decent knowledge of the Lore? And how will you get the better of your opponents when they lie in ambush and you don't see them coming because of a low level of Alertness?
The idea behind Byron is, that he is powerful yet unexperienced, ye? If that is why the Lore is low, then never mind what I said before. But if my understanding of the character idea is true, then why is his Discipline higher than his Conviction? Shouldn't it be the other way around? As fare as I understand it: Conviction resembles power and Discipline resembles control. Imo what your sheet currently reflects is a PC with rather nice control of his powers but without a lot of juice to use that control.
If you are going for that everything is cool.
-
Here's the second of the three young wardens:
Xiao Jing-Wei
Background:
What happens to a teenaged girl sold to the local crime syndicate to cover her father’s gambling debts? Nothing good. It seems like a most unlikely string of coincidences that she survived until her 16th birthday. And when you start getting visions of all the bad things that could be happening to you in the next few moments, It doesn’t help matters.
Aspect: My life has killed the dream I dreamed
Rising Conflict:
A wizard who just happened to be passing down the street where Jing-Wei was selling herself happened to notice her talents. After an awkward conversation on the wizard’s part, Jing-Wei was shown a whole different world, where hope might exist after all.
Aspect: Even the impossible happens sometimes
First Novel: Unknown Perpetrators
After completing her training, Jing-Wei completed her training, she returned to her old haunts to… take out some garbage. Byron, guessing what she had in mind followed her. A series of shouting matches between them climaxes in the loudest shouting match yet, where Jing-Wei is preparing to execute judgment on several human monsters. The Wardens are there to kill the monsters aren’t they? Byron convinces her that her life is worth something beyond what her past has made her. And then he shows her how wardens deal with that kind of monster. Solution so simple, why didn’t I think of that?
Aspect: I am who I choose to be
Guest Star: Passing through Paradise
While patrolling one of the marked ways though the nevernever, she and Matthew are forced off the path, and into a realm where your nightmares and fears are made real. Some clues indicate to Jing-Wei that her future self may be interfering in early events in her life. But is that because she fears that this is so, or because it’s the truth? Near the end the novel, Jing-Wei catches a bolt of lightning, turning it into an item of power.
Aspect: You’ve caught the lightning, aye. What now?
Guest Star: Thin Grey Line
The junior wardens are committed to their first major combat operation against ghouls. Jing-Wei is seriously wounded because she makes herself a target for several ghouls, after all she is much better protected than many of her compatriots. Despite her wounds, Jing-Wei is able to counter the magic of the ghouls, allowing for the wardens to link back up and win the battle.
Aspect: Miles to go before I sleep
Aspects:
High Concept: Warden Enchantress
Trouble: What is sold too cheap is esteemed too lightly
Other:
My life has killed the dream I dreamed
Even the impossible happens sometimes
I am who I choose to be
You’ve caught the lightning, aye. What now?
Miles to go before I sleep
Skills:
Great: Lore
Good: Deceit, Discipline, Presence
Fair: Conviction, Investigation, Rapport, Scholarship
Average: Alertness, Athletics, Endurance, Resources
Powers
-1 The Sight
-0 Soulgaze
-0 Wizard’s Constitution
-1 2 seconds into the future
Jing-Wei can use her Lore skill to get a reasonably accurate picture of events 1-2 seconds ahead of now (limited to what she will personally experience in those moments). She may roll her Lore skill to defend against physical or social attacks or maneuvers.
-3 Evocation
-3 Thaumaturgy
Chained Lightning (Item of Power, staff)
You’d think that a lightning bolt would have been trapped with air or earth magic. Nope, raw force is what holds this lightning bolt in staff form. You can also fly around on it like the classical witch's broom.
+2 Item of Power
-1 Flight
-2 Refinement
Refresh Penalty -9
Specializations:
Evocation (Spirit, Air, Water) +1 Spirit Power (additional +1 Spirit Power, +1 Spirit Control w/ Chained Lightning)
Thaumaturgy (+1 Crafting Complexity)
Stuff:
Chained Lightning, magical Abilities
Spell Breaker (2 slots, 7 counterspell, 3 times/session)
Blinding Radiance (2 slots, Area 1, power 5 maneuver, 3 times/session)
--
Lucky Dictionary (Enchanted Item, 2 Slots, 7 block or 3 armor, 3 times/session)
Enchanter’s Loupe (Focus Item, +2 crafting complexity)
2 Potion Slots
Stress:
Mental: OOO
Physical: OOO
Social: OOOO
Armor: Lucky Dictionary, armor 3 sometimes.
-
I don't know about your skill box...
Are you sure about putting Lore only up to Fair? This is a very important skill for a Wizard. In my opinion you should consider lowering Intimidation and/or Contacts in favor of Lore and Alertness. After all you want to play a Warden Wizard of the Wight Council. How will you know about the supernatural baddies when you are without a decent knowledge of the Lore? And how will you get the better of your opponents when they lie in ambush and you don't see them coming because of a low level of Alertness?
The idea behind Byron is, that he is powerful yet unexperienced, ye? If that is why the Lore is low, then never mind what I said before. But if my understanding of the character idea is true, then why is his Discipline higher than his Conviction? Shouldn't it be the other way around? As fare as I understand it: Conviction resembles power and Discipline resembles control. Imo what your sheet currently reflects is a PC with rather nice control of his powers but without a lot of juice to use that control.
If you are going for that everything is cool.
Remember that the young wardens were probably picked up at 14-16, and officially completed their training at around 19 or 20. So they've had only a few years to actually learn wizard related stuff, and most of their training seemed to have been focused on combat evocation. The assumption is that most members of the white council aren't very good at combat evocations at all, so anyone with reasonable ability is drafter, trained, and thrown into the meat grinder.
Also, since the characters are all wizards, they need to be set up so they highlight different strengths and weaknesses of wizards. Byron is discipline primary, Jing-Wei is Lore primary, and Matthew is Conviction primary.
-
Personally, I think normal Chest Deep or maybe even Submerged characters are more than inexperienced enough (at least compared to Harry and Carlos) without adding in new power levels. To do these characters specifically, I'd likely go Submerged (and note that they're quite good for their age), since Refrsh 10 seems fairly vital to certain concepts. Really they're likely to be one level better at all magic skills and have a few more supporting ones, it wouldn't be that different.
Molly, even pre-Full Wizard status is a Chest Deep character around Small Favor, and she's almost certainly had less training and experience than even baby Wardens.
That said, aside from that issue these look really good, though (as a pure terminology issue) you have Crafting Strength not Crafting Complexity.
-
Here's the last of the young wardens:
Matthew Rhodes
Background:
Mathew had everything the American dream promises loving parents, good looks, skill at football, you name it. And for someone who was so obviously blessed, how could you not have strong faith in providence?
Aspect: All American Kid
Rising Conflict:
When Matthew’s high school sweetheart is nabbed by a black court vampire, Matthew garlics up to go after it. After all, Dracula tells you everything you need to know, right? And how can you fail with God on your side? Gods lends a hand by having a warden show up to help out a young guy in way over his head.
Aspect: I do not come to bring peace, but a sword
First Novel: Higher Education
One of Matthew’s friends from high, who is starting college, starts acting oddly. Matthew investigates the fraternity his friend has joined, seems something bad is going on there. Byron, who has been investigating several disappearances in the city’s homeless also follows the clues to the fraternity. They fraternity brothers had cut a deal with some sort of demon, 1 human sacrifice in exchange for 4 years of smooth sailing and it’s not like those homeless guys were worth anything anyway, right? Matthew gives his dream of going to college to play football to fight the good fight.
Aspect: Made mighty by sacrifice
Guest Star: Passing through Paradise
While Matthew and Jing-Wei are patrolling a way through the nevernever, they are forced off the path into a realm of nightmares, where your fears are made real. Matthew gives into his fears and doubts his faith, until Jing-Wei reminds him that the lord helps those who help themselves.
Aspect: It is fear, not death that slays
Guest Star: Thin Grey Line
The young wardens are committed to their first major battle, against ghouls. The ghouls use enchanted objects to split the warden war party. Matthew is trapped in a magical maze, with several things chasing him. Wizards of a less straightforward frame of mind might have been defeated by the mazes complexity. Instead, Mathew notices that the maze’s walls are made of stone… After knocking down several walls to escape the maze, Matthew is able to arrive just in time to supply Jing-Wei with some needed first aid.
Aspect: It's not that I'm smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer
Aspects:
High Concept: Faithful Wizard
Trouble: To whom much is given, much is expected
Other:
All American Kid
I do not come to bring peace, but a sword
Made mighty by sacrifice
It is fear, not death that slays
It's not that I'm smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer
Skills:
Great: Conviction
Good: Athletics, Discipline, Endurance
Fair: Empathy, Lore, Rapport, Weapons
Average: Alertness, Investigation, Presence, Stealth
Powers
-1 The Sight
-0 Soulgaze
-0 Wizard’s Constitution
-3 Evocation
-2 Ritual
-1 Refinement
-1 Bless This House
-1 Guide my Hand
Refresh Penalty -9
Specializations:
Evocation (Earth, Water, Spirit, +1 Earth Power, +2 Earth Control)
Ritual (Wards)
Stuff:
Holy Water Sprinkler (Focus Item, +1 warding complexity)
Mail Glove (Focus Item, +1 Defensive Earth power and control)
Tire Iron (or similar) (Weapon: 2)
Stress:
Mental: OOOO
Physical: OOOO
Social: OOO
Armor: usually none
-
My problem with chest deep is that if you have an expensive template, like wizard, then that is all you can afford. There's no real room for any customization there. At 10 refresh, you can have a few stunts, or some refinement, or something, or you can just have a higher refresh if you want to. But at submerged, you have a very high skill total. If I made the young wardens up with 35 skill points, but still limited them to 1 or 2 great level skills for thematic reasons, they each end up having the majority of the skills in the game! (2 greats, 4 goods, 5 fairs, 5 average they'd each have 16 of the 25? skills in the game) Otherwise, some drafted teenagers just happened to be totally awesome at the skills needed by wizards.
If I can come up with some concepts in the next few days, I'll try to get some low refresh, high skill characters posted up too.
-
I have a character idea, another Young Warden, could I post it up here?
-
Sure, just remember to mention the skill total you are using.
-
Byron Hall
I'm sorry that I cannot at this moment comment on the rest of your work, as I'm driven to distraction by the fact that you've named your first dude after the author of FATAL. *shudder*
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, consider yourselves blessed. Don't try to find out. Seriously. Go about your lives knowing that you're saner and happier without this bit of knowledge seared into your brain.
-
I'm sorry that I cannot at this moment comment on the rest of your work, as I'm driven to distraction by the fact that you've named your first dude after the author of FATAL. *shudder*
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, consider yourselves blessed. Don't try to find out. Seriously. Go about your lives knowing that you're saner and happier without this bit of knowledge seared into your brain.
Oooh, good point.
And it's not so bad knowing of it's existence if you find the review they did on RPGnet. The humor softens the blow of the game's horror. On the other hand, there's no reson to actually read the game and it will scar you. Permanently. I speak from bitter personal experience.
-
Stunt
Author of FATAL
Against those who are aware of the darkness you have brought forth, your social attacks inflict mental, rather than social stress.
;)
But I just picked the names out of the hat, the references I did put in there are all in aspects or book titles.
-
Personally, I think normal Chest Deep or maybe even Submerged characters are more than inexperienced enough (at least compared to Harry and Carlos) without adding in new power levels. To do these characters specifically, I'd likely go Submerged (and note that they're quite good for their age), since Refrsh 10 seems fairly vital to certain concepts. Really they're likely to be one level better at all magic skills and have a few more supporting ones, it wouldn't be that different.
Molly, even pre-Full Wizard status is a Chest Deep character around Small Favor, and she's almost certainly had less training and experience than even baby Wardens.
That said, aside from that issue these look really good, though (as a pure terminology issue) you have Crafting Strength not Crafting Complexity.
This is my impression also. I'd let them go this far since without it they'll have a lot of trouble filling out a wizard template.
-
Here's the second of the three young wardens:
Xiao Jing-Wei
...
Powers
...
-1 2 seconds into the future
Jing-Wei can use her Lore skill to get a reasonably accurate picture of events 1-2 seconds ahead of now (limited to what she will personally experience in those moments). She may roll her Lore skill to defend against physical or social attacks or maneuvers.
...
You just put three trappings onto 1 skill. That is the equivalent of 3 mortal stunts. There has to be a major downside to be getting a 2 refresh discount. Maybe each time you decide to defend with Lore, you suffer a (stacking) -1 penalty to your actions on your next exchange (due to sorting the distractions).
A Trouble Aspect I think would be perfect on a newbie Warden being too "textbook" about things. Like Ilyana in the AAAA Wizards story asking if Kat was under surveillance because she suffered a traumatic event (constantly sensing her Uncle's psychic trauma from work), was young, and was a (doubly) talented mortal. I just can't think of a way to phrase this idea. Maybe "Protocol Impasse?" "Ruled by Rules?" "Warden (Morgan?) Tunnel Vision?"
-
It one of the abilities that one of the Ordo Lebes women, Abby, has in 'Our World'. It probably is slightly overpowered though.
Though it's 2 stunts not 3. Skill substitution for defense x2.
-
It one of the abilities that one of the Ordo Lebes women, Abby, has in 'Our World'. It probably is slightly overpowered though.
Though it's 2 stunts not 3. Skill substitution for defense x2.
You are right. I thought I saw it also Mental defense to Lore (which would've been the third trapping). The idea of seeing glimpsing into the future is pretty nifty, but I don't really see where to cut refresh (other than the nifty staff).
So I am going to stick with some sort of penalty somewhere. Either:
- Lore at -1 for both.
- Using Lore against a given attack causes a penalty on your next action (just like how supplemental actions can cause a -1 on your "main" simple action).
But this thread has given me a lot of nifty ideas for new Stunts.
-
You're forgetting that it's a power, not a Stunt. There's a 2 Refresh surcharge on all powers, they are thus better. I calculated it out and Inhuman Strength is worth at least 6 mortal Stunts, this one being worth 2 is no big deal compared to every other power there is.
-
Maybe "Protocol Impasse?" "Ruled by Rules?" "Warden (Morgan?) Tunnel Vision?"
Victim of the System?
-
I think the aspects are little too long, too clunky. The point is to come up with an idea (which yours were excellent) and expand on them, condense them in to something that's frequently usable.
Here's my suggestions that should help make them more tagable for players and GM's.
Byron Hall
Aspects:
High Concept: Wizard from the ‘hood
Trouble: Power has a purpose
Other:
P1: Miser
P2: It’s better than prison
P3: Swing Right
P4: goodness ain't always badness
P5: alpha dog
Xiao Jing-Wei
Aspects:
High Concept: Warden Enchantress
Trouble: You dont always get what you pay for
Other:
P1: Shattered dreams
P2: Miracles happen / Unimpossible / How the ... ?
P3: I call the shots / My life is my own / I am who I choose to be
P4: A fist full of boom
P5: Miles to go before I sleep
Matthew Rhodes
Aspects:
High Concept: Faithful Wizard
Trouble: Higher Expectations
Other:
P1: All American Kid
P2: In pieces, not peaces
P3: Made mighty by sacrifice
P4: Fear is the mindkiller
P5: Not dumb enough to run / Not dumb enough / Too smart to flee / I want the last laugh
-
I felt like I should share the final stats of the Warden Pup I've talking about but still unable to play atm.
Johann Sebastian "Pup" Basset
High Concept: (Probationary) Teenage Warden [Specifically 19]
Trouble: "I Have a Social Life, DAMMIT!!!"
Other Aspects: Military School Fixed Me...Sort of.; Magic is Like Music; Jabberwock's Bane - The Vorpal Sword; I Can't Find Mana on The Periodic Table; The Spokane Scoobies
Phase 1:
J.S. Basset was the mild mannered son of a pair of Music Professors. Because of his blood bourne Orchestra Geek-dom. At his old school he was picked on by the school bully...Once. An improvised weapon to the face ended that. Unfortunately, the bully was also the principal's son, so the only way out for J.S. was Military School. Specifically The Army/Navy Academy [It's the closest one I could find to Spokane, WA].
Phase 2:
J.S. found the Magic during a Grenade Toss event when he made the ground beneath the simulator EXPLODE. He was approached by a Wizard of the Council and recruited immediately. He took to his training quickly because of his background as a Cellist. He even managed to get into the Wardens because of his phenomenal Evocating ability. However, Wizards LaFortier and Peabody didn't like the idea of a Wizard so young without Thaumaturlurgical ability to be a full-wizard(but needed the thug power) so they made him a "Probationary" Warden. Meaning that until he passes his Thaumaturgy Exam, he is technically a Warden but not a full Wizard. Meaning he doesn't get things like a paycheck, voting rights, a stipend for expenses or things like that...
Phase 3:
First Adventure: A Warden's Sword
During his training at Camp Kaboom, J.S. made waves among the younger Wardens, but the older Wizards like Harry and Carols thought he was just a hotshot and earned him the nickname, "Pup" after an Epic Wiseass remark from Warden Dresden. He wanted to prove his worth and thought Warden's swords were cool so he did some research. He found the fairie retelling of Warden Alighieri's battle against the Jabberwocky and the Sword he left behind. When he set out to retrieve the lost blade, he found it in the care of the Jabberwocky that killed the old Warden, the one left out of the story....
Other Phases are currently unwritten.
Skills: 30 points
Superb: Conviction, Discipline
Great: Weapons, Athletics
Good: Endurance, Alterness
Fair: Lore, Scholarship
Average: Guns, Performance
Powers:
-3 Evocation (Earth [Control +1], Air, Water)
-1 The Sight His Sight tends to revolve around musical structures to depict things. Everything has a theme song basically.
-0 Soulgaze
-0 Wizard's Constitution
-2 The Vorpal Sword (Item of Power)
The Sword can only be wielded by someone sworn to uphold the Laws of Magic, Obey the Will of The White Council and Protect The Innocent in that order. The Sword can be unmade if it is used to intentionally break one of The Laws.
[+2] Obvious: It's a 48" Sword. He keeps it in his Cello case.
[-1] Warden's Sword (made with 4 Enchanted Item Slots) Allows the use of only the dispel ability(it doesn't get the stress 6 attack because of Sharp) 5/session.
[-1] Sharp +2 Stress Damage (making it a Stress 5 Sword, eek...) but, only when it is being used to cut. If you bash someone with the hilt, that Vorpal Blade don't go Snicker Snack, it go WHACK!
[-2] Worldwalker
Total Refresh: -6
-
thats a very cool character. I'm not sure how I feel about using a warden sword's enchanted item mechanics as an item of power. I think if you are doing it that way, it should cost more than -1 refresh.
-
Well, it's effectively a level of Refiement in a sword, so it works out fairly well.
I'm more thinking that any Warden needs at least Ritual if not full on Thaumaturgy to have passed the White Council's Wizard trials.
-
thats a very cool character. I'm not sure how I feel about using a warden sword's enchanted item mechanics as an item of power. I think if you are doing it that way, it should cost more than -1 refresh.
Well, it's effectively a level of Refiement in a sword, so it works out fairly well.
You are correct, I built that -1 refresh with 1 level of Refinement to buy 4 enchanted items slots.
2 for the Warden's Sword and 2 for extra uses. Though now that I do the math, it would be Base 3 uses (2 EI slots) + 2 X 2 extra uses(2 additional uses per enchanted item slot) = 7 uses/session. But only the dispel effect because of Sharp. Sharp is meant to represent the fact it's the Fracking Vorpal Sword. Sharp's effects are comparable to a Stunt. And I specify, only when cutting.
I'm more thinking that any Warden needs at least Ritual if not full on Thaumaturgy to have passed the White Council's Wizard trials.
That's the thing, he hasn't passed the trials yet. He is only a Warden on paper. He is still technically an apprentice.
Why is that? He is a damn good Evocator, military school made him easy to train for Fire discipline(military speaking, not magic fire) and for the war they need everyone they can get. Yes, he can't put up Wards or use divinations or anything like that yet, but he has mighty magical thews.
Plus, the practical reason for that is because the game I designed him for is only Refresh 8. At refresh 10 he gets Thaumaturgy for a total of -9, making him a full Wizard/Warden.
-
You are correct, I built that -1 refresh with 1 level of Refinement to buy 4 enchanted items slots.
2 for the Warden's Sword and 2 for extra uses. Though now that I do the math, it would be Base 3 uses (2 EI slots) + 2 X 2 extra uses(2 additional uses per enchanted item slot) = 7 uses/session. But only the dispel effect because of Sharp. Sharp is meant to represent the fact it's the Fracking Vorpal Sword. Sharp's effects are comparable to a Stunt. And I specify, only when cutting.
Don't forget that you can use an enchanted item an extra time per session for the low cost of 1 mental stress.
So at some point, it might not be worth having 7 uses.