ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Conspiracy Theorist on August 13, 2020, 01:35:32 AM
-
I believe the Placard is a magical broadcast device, anything written on it gets broadcast to those chosen to be broadcast to, telepathically and with absolute certainty and trust. Not unlike Mouses barking during a fire, bu far larger and far more complex
This would be very useful with all electronic communication down, it can broadcast to the citizenry to stay away from the lake, stay in their homes, it can broadcast to SI and CPD, the Paranet, Marcone’s organization,Eric Instructions and Rally points, and of course with Ivy present they can communicate back by writing down replies, as they have a multitasking magical communications receiver.
Instead of facing a chaotic disorganised defence, the Fomor would be facing a calmed citizenry and highly organised defence, relieving the little folk of this task (I would redeploy them “see Toot this is a grenade, find them on the Fomor, remove the pin and let the spoon come loose, then retreat at speed for fresh instructions while the Fomor go boom”) same with their seashell grenades, automatic weapons and superglue etc.
So what do you think Harry is going to use the Placard for.
-
I am not sure how much use a magical/telepathic communication to the regular citizens would be, "Why are there voices in my head?"
From the last words of PT, I think that Harry, Murphy, and co. are going to try to shut Ethniu down before it becomes obvious to the general public that this isn't just a power outage.
I kind of think the Placard is going to be part of the binding of Ethniu, either as a symbol of "trial and sentence" or to reinforce the use of Ethniu's True Name by writing it on the placard.
-
I figure it will be used to find her true name, as Harry does not yet know it,
-
Ethnui’s true name is not needed if they have blood, which is the entire point of the Athame. Alfred was surprised by the use of the Placard, he therefore did not consider it relevant to the binding, and he has only done this 6,000 times.
I pointed out the effect Mouses barking had when an apartment building was on fire, people didn’t question “why is that dog barking?” They calmly and quickly abandoned the building, without questioning it. I presume the Placard can achieve this City Wide and yes this does skirt the 7 Laws on mental influence.
-
Ethnui’s true name is not needed if they have blood, which is the entire point of the Athame.
I don't think binding stuff is that binary. Harry used a bunch of symbolically-significant stuff to contain the Erlking in DB, and even so he wasn't sure if he could do it.
Presumably there was a reason Harry improved his summoning circle, too.
When you're trying to capture something overwhelmingly more powerful than you, every bit helps.
Alfred was surprised by the use of the Placard
I don't think so.
"YOU WISH TWO OF THE WEAPONS?"
Alfred sounded slightly intimidated.
That's the kind of power level we were talking about.
"Sure," I said in the most cavalier fashion I could. "After all, that's only half the arsenal [...]
Intimidated, not surprised. It's "are you really sure you want to be doing this?" not "what good would that do?"
I pointed out the effect Mouses barking had when an apartment building was on fire
Yeah... I'm still not sure it's really comparable. Those events were easily explainable without magic; a really big dog's really loud barking woke them up, the building was on fire so they evacuated.
Everybody in the city getting the same telepathic message is way more obviously supernatural.
-
As pointed out if there is a record of Ethnui’s true name the Archive would have it as she is a receiver via her intellectus, and she stores information like a name for a millennium after there is no written record. It is what the Archive was built for. She pretty much wasn’t designed for broadcast. Some beings like Hades true name is out there, it’s use not so much a summons but as drawing their attention. For a being of great power and will the use of their true name may be common usage, it’s only the small guys who have to be careful about names, but everyone has to be careful about Blood.
Placard definition”a printed or handwritten notice or sign for public display, either fixed to a wall or carried during a demonstration”
Jim is very clear about using the term Placard, presumably for the public display element. If I am right about it’s use, then it must never be allowed to fall into the wrong hands. Not the Black Council, but a group far more evil where the potential for misuse is far greater. Advertising agencies. Imagine if they got hold of it, Harry would be eating MacDonalds and drinking Pepsi without knowing why, only that he was doing something very, very wrong but unable to stop himself.
A Foo Dogs magic is to make everything run more smoothly this is known from Zoo day. Alarm and defence are also part of their functions.
-
Communication, at the end of Peace Talks Harry voices his fears to Murphy that this time the blood and mayhem that is going to result from the invasion cannot be hidden from the vanilla human world.
page 340 Peace Talks
"People will be terrified," Murphy said.
"And they'll set out to destroy what frightens them," I said. "It'll make the Spanish Inquision look like a bouncy castle."
The Placard on the Cross announced to the world who Jesus was, or who people said He was. If people are as frightened as Harry thinks they will be, there has to be a way to communicate to them to calm them so there isn't a severe backlash against the supernatural world resulting in even more blood shed, that is why he needs the Placard.
-
I believe the Placard is a magical broadcast device, anything written on it gets broadcast to those chosen to be broadcast to, telepathically and with absolute certainty and trust. Not unlike Mouses barking during a fire, bu far larger and far more complex
This would be very useful with all electronic communication down, it can broadcast to the citizenry to stay away from the lake, stay in their homes, it can broadcast to SI and CPD, the Paranet, Marcone’s organization,Eric Instructions and Rally points, and of course with Ivy present they can communicate back by writing down replies, as they have a multitasking magical communications receiver.
Isn't broadcasting 'stay in your homes' with the power of one of the artefacts behind it bordering on mental tampering though?
-
Harry skirts everyone of the Seven Laws WOJ, Sue is one example of this in respect of necromancy, he raises an animal rather than a human.
I suspect the Placards power is such is that it doesn’t tamper, like Mouses bark, so that when someone subject to its influence is examined no signs of tampering are found, revelation rather than whammy has occurred, and their free will isn’t harmed. Besides this has acted to protect every single person in Chicago, like Harry killed DuMorne with magic in self defence.
Of course given free will, there will be people who ignore this revelation.
-
You don't give instructions unless you first know what's happening. That's called the fog of war. No one person can go everywhere and see everything. So other than a general instruction to lay low and hunker down what good is it if you use it that way?
Harry has been playing daddy since Skin Game. When has he had time to figure it out, given that neither weapon comes with an operating manual? The Lance is fairly obvious in context. You use it to poke holes in things, even Titans with bronze skin. He needs blood so stickee, stickee. It's described as a weapon, not as a walkie talkie.
-
As pointed out if there is a record of Ethnui’s true name the Archive would have it
Yes. I am not talking about using the Placard to discover Ethnui's true name, but to use it in connection with her True Name to strengthen the binding. The same way Harry used various symbolic items to help him bind the Erlking in DB, only more so.
Ethniu is a major power, stronger than Mab, way stronger than the Erlking. Binding her isn't going to be easy.
Communication, at the end of Peace Talks Harry voices his fears to Murphy that this time the blood and mayhem that is going to result from the invasion cannot be hidden from the vanilla human world.
Right, but to me it sounds like at the very end Harry and Murphy are setting out to keep that from happening.
Which to me means Harry probably intends to take down Ethniu before the invasion really gets going.
From "Christmas Eve" we know it won't work out that way, there will be lots of damage and death. But I think that's Harry's plan, so I don't think he'd start out by doing something obvious to everyone.
-
From "Christmas Eve" we know it won't work out that way, there will be lots of damage and death. But I think that's Harry's plan, so I don't think he'd start out by doing something obvious to everyone.
Yeah, from Christmas Eve we know Harry did try to talk to them. However it isn't clear who themwere. It could be it was a beginning of a full mass slaughter riot type a thing, he used the Placard, it stopped massive slaughter, but there was still plenty of death to go around.
-
TL:DR, I have no idea what it's for.
Before Skin Game, I'd never heard of any legends about the placard. Just the INRI inscription on many crucifixes and what it meant. I don't even know what to google to find out legends about it. I'm sure placard isn't the best search word. I did find this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titulus_Crucis#:~:text=Titulus%20Crucis%20(Latin%20for%20%22Title,a%20relic%20associated%20with%20Jesus. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titulus_Crucis#:~:text=Titulus%20Crucis%20(Latin%20for%20%22Title,a%20relic%20associated%20with%20Jesus.). Maybe someone else can find some stories of legends surrounding it?
There's a bunch of legends about the Holy Grail and the Lance. There's plenty of stuff out there about the Shroud of Turin. There's legends about pieces of the cross, the nails, and pieces of the Crown of Thorns. I think maybe Jim just added it because he needed a 5th thing and worked his way into what it would do without reference to any real world stories.
-
TL:DR, I have no idea what it's for.
Before Skin Game, I'd never heard of any legends about the placard. Just the INRI inscription on many crucifixes and what it meant. I don't even know what to google to find out legends about it. I'm sure placard isn't the best search word. I did find this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titulus_Crucis#:~:text=Titulus%20Crucis%20(Latin%20for%20%22Title,a%20relic%20associated%20with%20Jesus. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titulus_Crucis#:~:text=Titulus%20Crucis%20(Latin%20for%20%22Title,a%20relic%20associated%20with%20Jesus.). Maybe someone else can find some stories of legends surrounding it?
There's a bunch of legends about the Holy Grail and the Lance. There's plenty of stuff out there about the Shroud of Turin. There's legends about pieces of the cross, the nails, and pieces of the Crown of Thorns. I think maybe Jim just added it because he needed a 5th thing and worked his way into what it would do without reference to any real world stories.
The little I know about it is it says that Jesus was King of the Jews, in Latin, Hebrew, and Greek I believe.
-
The little I know about it is it says that Jesus was King of the Jews, in Latin, Hebrew, and Greek I believe.
This is correct. Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum.
But I also don't find any legends.
-
It means Jim gets to write his own mythology around it. So he will use it to expound upon HIS narrative.
-
This is correct. Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum.
But I also don't find any legends.
One might call it a sarcastic "bill board" a warning to others who may have the same ambitions as
Jesus.
-
It's possible that it's just a power supply to supercharge whatever action Harry wants to take. The aura around each object practically burns his fingers, so we may just be looking at bringing more horsepower.
-
The swords are powered by an Angel, what powers the Placard and other weapons? multiple angels, an Archangel, a god?.
The Athame should be powerful enough on its own to achieve its end and that’s the rub, there is no need in that instance for it to be a power supply, and the other objects have a specific purpose, Harry can use them in accordance with their purpose (like the swords) but he can’t draw on the swords as a source of power for his purpose.
Maybe he is going to Wile. E Coyote it, an ardent user of placards.
-
The swords are powered by an Angel, what powers the Placard and other weapons? multiple angels, an Archangel, a god?.
The Athame should be powerful enough on its own to achieve its end and that’s the rub, there is no need in that instance for it to be a power supply, and the other objects have a specific purpose, Harry can use them in accordance with their purpose (like the swords) but he can’t draw on the swords as a source of power for his purpose.
Maybe he is going to Wile. E Coyote it, an ardent user of placards.
Beep! Beep! ;)
-
but he can’t draw on the swords as a source of power for his purpose.
Not.... YET. but just as the WK is not usually held by a wizard.. we have yet to see what a saint can do with one. Honestly I expected butters to continue with some of his Batman artifices using the swords power as a mock up of force abilities, but perhaps that'd cut too close to an actual Jedi.
-
It is unlikely that Harry will draw power from an Angel, the gift of Soulfire comes from his soul, by operation of his free will.
Harry is no saint either, he is human, a very, very human, human (and a wizard). Kringle is the only saint in the series (Nicholas).
-
It is unlikely that Harry will draw power from an Angel, the gift of Soulfire comes from his soul, by operation of his free will.
Harry is no saint either, he is human, a very, very human, human (and a wizard). Kringle is the only saint in the series (Nicholas).
might wanna go back over death masks and think about what harry actually believes... He's a dead ringer as charlie brown for Hope.
-
might wanna go back over death masks and think about what harry actually believes... He's a dead ringer as charlie brown for Hope.
He will always take a kick at the football, especially if there is a beautiful woman holding it.
-
The swords are powered by an Angel, what powers the Placard and other weapons? multiple angels, an Archangel, a god?.
I figured it was basically residual energy from the Crucifixion. I guess it could be angels too, though.
Harry can use them in accordance with their purpose (like the swords) but he can’t draw on the swords as a source of power for his purpose.
Well, Nicodemus was going to use the (other) Shroud as a power source for the plague curse, and even though that wasn't the actual Shroud, it still had power due to being a focus of faith - yet Nic could use it for destructive magic that was very much not in accordance with that faith.
Now, that might not work for the Swords, since an actual angel is probably consciously deciding what to do with the power.
But also, Harry isn't going to mess around with them like that; he's their custodian, but not really their owner. I really wouldn't rule out the possibility to use the Swords as symbolic items in thaumaturgy, even though Harry probably couldn't access the power of the angel itself. Just because Harry hasn't done it doesn't mean he couldn't.
-
Don't forget, Mavra didn't want to just break the sword, she wanted to change it. If it's an angelic grace, it absolutely can fall.
-
Imagine a Sword powered by a Fallen Angel.
-
Don't forget, Mavra didn't want to just break the sword, she wanted to change it. If it's an angelic grace, it absolutely can fall.
She wanted to totally unmake it, if it had been used to kill an innocent, it would have happened.
-
She wanted to totally unmake it, if it had been used to kill an innocent, it would have happened.
she wanted to change it. Wait til a sith gets ahold of the faith saber, you'll see. Jim mentions how it's more vulnerable now. But if it's safe, how's it more vulnerable? By being easier to misuse in the wrong hands.
-
she wanted to change it. Wait til a sith gets ahold of the faith saber, you'll see. Jim mentions how it's more vulnerable now. But if it's safe, how's it more vulnerable? By being easier to misuse in the wrong hands.
I have to go back and get the exact quote from Grave Peril, but Michael said nothing about changing,he was explicit about destroying it by Mavra. We are also talking about two different Swords here. In Grave Peril it was the Sword of Love that she tried to destroy at the party by way of human sacrifice of an innocent. She didn't even come close, so I don't think the Sword of Love is in danger or vulnerable or any more vulnerable than before depending on in who's hands it sits in. The Sword of Faith on the other hand was changed when Murphy broke it breaking the rules governing the Swords, it became a light saber in the hands of Butters and that might make it more vulnerable.
-
I have to go back and get the exact quote from Grave Peril, but Michael said nothing about changing,he was explicit about destroying it by Mavra. We are also talking about two different Swords here.
and what does our mortal philosopher say about destruction? We're talking about information michael not only wouldn't have been exposed to, but that was likely intentionally suppressed by his church handlers. It's not something he'd immediately believe is possible. Mavra coulda smashed the sword to bits, but as we know it'd still have been the sword waiting to be reforged. Killing an innocent has a much greater metaphysical meaning to it.
Talking about different swords doesn't matter, they each hold a grace.
-
and what does our mortal philosopher say about destruction? We're talking about information michael not only wouldn't have been exposed to, but that was likely intentionally suppressed by his church handlers. It's not something he'd immediately believe is possible. Mavra coulda smashed the sword to bits, but as we know it'd still have been the sword waiting to be reforged. Killing an innocent has a much greater metaphysical meaning to it.
Talking about different swords doesn't matter, they each hold a grace.
There is a huge difference between merely smashing a Holy Sword, that is what happened to the Sword of Faith, and unmaking a Holy Sword, which is what killing an innocent with it would do.
page 271 Grave Peril paper back
Michael drew a sudden breath.
"What's going on?" Susan blurted.
"The blood of innocents," he snarled. "The Sword is vulnerable. She means to unmake it. Harry we cannot allow it."
-
I don't think the Swords do hold a grace in the sense that Uriel lent his grace to Michael in SG.
I think they are powered by an angel in the same way that the Denarian coins contain a fallen angel, except the good angels powering the Swords probably aren't imprisoned but just doing it to act in the mortal world without violating the "rules" (the Denarians' Fallen were basically kicked out of Hell/imprisoned because Lucifer was afraid they'd try to take over Hell, per WOJ).
IE, the grace is still "attached to" the angel, so I don't think the risk of Falling in SG applies here. That was IMO a very unusual situation.
And I am not sure the "unmaking" and "breaking" are actually that different. I don't think pure physical force could break a Sword unless it's made vulnerable; but I don't think Mavra could have destroyed Amoracchius forever, it would probably just need to be reforged.
-
There is a huge difference between merely smashing a Holy Sword, that is what happened to the Sword of Faith, and unmaking a Holy Sword, which is what killing an innocent with it would do.
page 271 Grave Peril paper back
yea.... That's what I just said... Destroying the sword does not destroy the energy of the sword, just changes it.
Pure physical force can break the sword when it's vulnerable, still not the same as unmaking it. If the metaphysical event as the crucifixion gave the swords their significance, then a comparable event can change their nature.
The three swords are likely the three Watchers btw... The clue everyone seemed to miss from TC, is there is another supernatural restaurant in Egypt, same place esper was last active. One sword, one grace, one watcher based near where the sword was most active,
*Idk if you got the mortal philosopher reference, but you can't destroy energy, you can only change it, hence unmaking the sword is not simply destroying it.