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Messages - g33k

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1
  Actually it isn't evidence all that Harry was under qualified ... however the very fact that Harry was able to pull it off says he has the skills and talent to do the job ...
It's really quite necessary to ask, from whose point of view?

Demonreach has its own standards.  Obviously, Harry fulfilled them.
I might speculate:  others know there's an Apocalypse coming, so it seems likely Demonreach knows, too.  Did the entity accept Harry's effort at a lower bar, because it was so critical to get even a mediocre Warden over none at all?  I'll assert it's a reasonable question, to which we have no answer (and very little evidence).

And, of course, the White Council has its standards.  Demonreach (and its Warden) are no part of the White Council; Warden of the Well isn't a Senior Council title, nor yet an unofficial role within the WC (the way "the Blackstaff" is an unofficial role).  The Council isn't even always aware of the Warden.  And yet, they have Opinions!

From the WC perspective, then, Harry's the plumber in the nuke-plant.  Not everyone shares that opinion... Ebenezer thought it was a good idea; Rashid is... mmm... cautiously optimistic?  Others find it an act of hopeless incompetence:  becoming Warden unwittingly, what more proof of incompetence do you need?  And a few, I suspect, still harbor a suspicion that they are seeing Warlock Dresden(tm) making (yet another) power-play.


... So it's better to leave no one in charge?
I think, from the WC perspective, this is the case.
Because a Warden can release the entities in the island, and there are a lot of horrible (and horrifically powerful) entities down there, gathered over the course of millenia.  I think a bad-guy Warden is just about the worst scenario they can envision, far worse than none at all.

I think they see the Warden's job as being bad enough that nobody "should" want it; that the only reason anybody would want it, is to do  Evil Villain Shenanigans.

2
Blundering into it doesn't make one automatically bad at whatever the job is, or a bad person ...
No; I think "blundering into it" is prima facie evidence of being underqualified.  In  the normal course of things, they'd be right:  Harry's like a plumber who has wandered into being the only engineer at a nuclear power plant.

... However in the light of all of that, why didn't the Senior Council make sure there was a Warden in charge of the place they could trust? ...
I suspect it's because -- from the WC's perspective -- it's too horrible & dangerous a job to force someone to take.  But I'm not sure.



3
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon Con points of interest
« on: September 18, 2024, 10:20:43 PM »
... So no, it's not confirmed canon, but it's heavily implied if you follow the logic chain.

Oh, I agree that the implications are there!

In particular, knowing that Lea created her Murdergarden to block Nevernever access -- and killed many attackers -- tells us that many creatures can waltz right across a threshold from the Nevernever; and therefore -- when Lea was herself present in the garden -- so to could the Leanansidhe.

What's more:  when Mab had Lea "on ice," Mab was handling all Lea's "faerie godmother" obligations... so Mab herself was just a step from Harry's lab (this was, by the bye, the timeframe when the "mystery repair" to Little Chicago happened... food for thought ... ).

4
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon Con points of interest
« on: September 18, 2024, 10:11:13 PM »
No??  Bob, as we know is very interested in sex, from porn magazines to panty raids when he is let out for short time periods.  He may have peeped when he shouldn't have or stole a pair of her panties,  it is untelling what would offend Mab. Or at what lengths she'd go to for her revenge.
Oh, yeah.
If you had said, "sexually harassed Mab" I'd have been "yeah, that's a Bob move..."
He'd obviously have had to do some stalker-ish "while she was away" sort of thing, because even though he's knowlegable & powerful he only has enough juice to be a minor annoyance to Mab.

It was the "seduce Mab" that I found unlikely!

5
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon Con points of interest
« on: September 18, 2024, 03:37:26 PM »
Another WAG, at one point Bob seduced Mab...

I don't think a spirit could have done that.
Or did you mean the human wizard who "birthed" Bob?

6
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon Con points of interest
« on: September 18, 2024, 02:01:28 AM »
Leah knew that Harry had Bob ...

Do we have certainty about that?  AFAIK, all of the "winterfae know Harry had Bob" theories are fantheories only; I recall no canon or WoJ either way.

7
DF Spoilers / Re: Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
« on: September 17, 2024, 05:57:42 AM »
Is this a Word of Jim?  If so, could you direct me to it?
It is, I'm virtually certain (I have read the section repeatedly).
But now I cannot find it.  :o   :-[

8
DF Spoilers / Re: Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
« on: September 16, 2024, 11:56:44 PM »
... Yes likely, page502 Cold Days, Mab had just taken the gun back from Harry and was pointing it at him ...

If Warden-orders end instantly with the death of the Warden, then Mab was utterly safe:  Harry's order to Demonreach would end when Mab spattered his brains out.  Death is instantaneous, no last lingering words, no Death-Curse, and (if Warden-orders insta-expire) no more threat from Alfred.

And yet Mab acted as if the threat was real.

I conclude that -- most likely -- a Warden's orders do NOT expire instantly when the Warden expires.

I presume that they do expire -- eventually -- because the island was at "Defcon Zero" when Harry became Warden.  Even "Defcon Zero" is dangerous when it's Demonreach, of course!  But Harry needed to learn the defenses, and raise them up.

I presume that, when Harry dies, the island's elevated defenses will fade away... but I'm unclear how quickly that would happen.

9
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon Con points of interest
« on: September 16, 2024, 11:41:24 PM »
... But it is relevant,  neither Bob nor Bonnie can be expected to live in a tiny brain space ...
No, it's irrelevant; "space" (in the 3-dimensional sense) isn't what's involved.

Spirits can fit into arbitrarily-small spaces (through keyholes, under doors), but also expand into very large ones (such as when Bob filled Sue, or the brass lion).

Bob's skull not only fits Bob:  it has room for a guest, as Harry discovered.  What's more, the space didn't seem "cramped" -- several more could likely have visited, if it were needed.

So the inside of "Bob's Skull" offers more room to spirits than the physical space allows; more spirits can fit than brains can.  So too (most likely) the wooden skull that Bonea has; Harry was clear that his wooden skull was cruder and less capacious, but it's still similar, and "good enough."

... Harry carved that wooden scull as a backup home, but if he doesn't know how or cannot make that connection to make that space inside, what's the point ...   
Harry had the original skull available -- and Bob's tutelage -- for years beforehand, to study.  Both the runes & other carvings, but also the enchantments, the spells.  And then had Bob available as a consultant, in prep for constructing the "backup" home.

Moreover:  he did it.  Whatever the minimum enchantments necessary to make a spirit-home skull, Harry managed.

... Another problem with your idea, Bob avoids the Nevernever, so would he be happy with such an arrangement?

Bob avoids the fae, particularly Winter, and most particularly Mab.

AFAIK, the only reason Bob "avoids the Nevernever" is the Fae/Winter/Mab issue.  If the skull connects to a little isolated bubble of "Neverneverness" then Bob can go there and be safe. (***but I have a WAG about this!)

I think it's creating this isolated pocket anchored to the skull, that makes the job more than a simple carving.  Harry could have bought a cheap wooden carved skull from a Día de los Muertos leftover-sale, if it were as simple as all that (2/$35 on Etsy, I just looked).


*** My WAG about Bob & his "fear of Mab:"
1/  I think Bob's "Spiritual Heavyweight" parent was Mab.  I know that Lea is a fan-favorite, but IMHO she's too much of a lightweight power (I know, right?).  Mab -- in charge of the Outer Gates of Creation -- is inestimably more-potent.
2/  I think Mab created a Shadow in the mortal wizard specifically to get a spirit-child (Bob) out of the deal (and if it was Mab, there was a deal!), likely Mab's Shadow providing knowledge/advice to the wizard-host, both as Mab's part of the deal and what Mab wanted in the first place.
3/  I think Mab wanted (and got) a "Spirit of Intellect" that would work closely with powerful human wizards, through the centuries; but one who, ultimately, served Mab's interests.  A deep-cover sleeper-agent, if you will.
4/  I'm unclear if Bob knows he is Mab's agent (and is only pretending he's terrified of her), or if Bob is an unwitting accomplice; or what.  But remember how Mab knew exactly what was going on with "the Parasite" and provided a carefully-crafted countermeasure (did Lea show any awareness whatsoever)?  And how Mab gave Harry an "impossible" order, to kill an unkillable immortal... but knew Harry had access to Bob (who knew the secret).  And how Bob more-or-less LIVED in Harry's lab... right across the Nevernever gate from the murdergarden of Mab's Handmaiden.
Mab could clearly have destroyed Bob any time she wanted to.
Bob's "fear" of Mab is pointless; the question becomes:  is Bob fooled about his danger?  Or is Bob fooling Harry?

10
DF Spoilers / Re: Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
« on: September 13, 2024, 06:25:58 PM »
Maybe a technicality here, but still important, when the order was given, Harry was a very alive Warden.  So the order was, if Harry is killed by Mab, immediately put her in the slammer.. The order given by a very alive Warden, so I'd say it was still good, given what the order was...

Why wouldn't the Warden just give the order to keep the island at elevated defenses "until ordered otherwise" ... Then the island is defended even if the Warden dies, because the order was given by a "very-alive Warden."

We know the defenses were down when Harry took up the job... the question is, how long before a Warden-ordered elevated state of "Defcon" (or other orders) just "wear off" to normal low-grade steady-state, after the Warden dies?

Instantly?  Likely not, if we're to judge by Mab's reaction.

A few moments?  Possible, but Demonreach-powers bring a lot of psychic "inertia" to just evaporate so swiftly.

Next Sunrise?  We now a sunrise -- and successive sunrises -- can wear-away magic & wards &c.  But the defenses of the island have seen a LOT of sunrises... I don't think they're susceptible.

All this is supposition, though.  AFAIK nobody has ever pinned Jim down on any of this.

11
DF Spoilers / Re: Dragon Con points of interest
« on: September 13, 2024, 05:47:57 PM »
... the inside of Bob's skull home is very much a home, more like the TARDIS of DR WHO, bigger inside than outside ...

The physical space is irrelevant, though.  The "space" inside Bob's skull isn't "space" but a connection to (what I suspect is) a demesne within the Nevernever.

12
Alternatively, Mab intends it to blow up because she believes the White Court is fundamentally compromised ...

Alternatively Alternatively, the library has weapons so valuable, it's going to upgrade Harry's growing armory more than any downsides.

<insert "Why Not Both?" GIF here>

Seriously.

I'm pretty sure Mab is inserting her Knight -- the brawny wizard with Starborn power & twin talents for (a) poking his nose into uncomfortable places, & (b) seriously wrecking shit -- into the White Court for very good reason... such as to seriously wreck the White Court (or at least the Nemfection therein).

And, I'm pretty sure Papa Raith's private library has some Outsider-oriented materials that Harry will find both highly-interesting and highly-useful... and Mab wants her Knight to be a better Outsider-fighter !
 

13
DF Spoilers / Re: Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
« on: September 12, 2024, 10:48:23 PM »
... it was a credible threat because Harry was Warden as of Turn Coat, he just didn't know it ...

Harry threatened Mab with prison at the end of Cold Days, I think -- well after TC -- so Harry was very-much aware of the Warden role; but that isn't the point here.

The point is a very-short logic chain:
1/ Harry issued a command to Alfred to be carried out in the event of Harry's death.
2/ If Warden-specific stuff expires when the Warden expires, Mab wouldn't have seen the threat as credible; but she did.
3/ Therefore, at least some of Demonreach's Warden-stuff survives the death of the Warden.

Presumably, it eventually expires (if everything could be on-tap all the time, I presume it would be, and the Island's defenses wouldn't have been so lax at the time Harry became Warden); hence my speculation above, regarding "year and a day" or the like.

14
DF Spoilers / Re: Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
« on: September 12, 2024, 07:52:11 PM »
... something doesn't add up for Kemmler to have been Warden when he was killed.. Or that he had ever been Warden at all ...
And yet, WoJ is very clear and specific:  Kemmler was indeed Demonreach's Warden (though we don't know for how long).

15
DF Spoilers / Re: Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
« on: September 12, 2024, 02:01:06 PM »
Still doesn't follow, Kemmler as Warden still would have had control of the inmates ...
That's our understanding, yes.
I confess:  I don't have track of the WoJ (or canonical cite) which says this.

But AFAIK the inmates are still subject to (as yet unknown) specific rules of Demonreach.  It's in BG, I think, where Harry discovered that Alfred does stuff outside of the Warden's orders/control/perception; I expect that brief reveal will prove important later!


...  Another thing that doesn't fully compute, the island's defenses..  The ones that one the Warden has control of, they weren't in place when Harry took over as Warden.  Alfred was barely holding on and that's why he was so happy to have a caretaker again..  Those Warden controlled defenses remain in control even when Harry isn't on the island.. Are they automatically dropped if Harry died leaving the island vulnerable once more?

I don't think the island drops all those defenses instantly, no:  remember, Mab acted as if Harry's order to Demonreach (to imprison her if she killed him) was a "credible threat."

I suspect it'll be one or more funky bits of pseudo-mystical handwavium -- "a year and a day" or somesuch -- that is the duration for "final orders" of Wardens who die.

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