The "heavy hitters" were the Brute Squad -- the ones that were killed at Archangelsk offscreen before Summer Knight.
I'd say no, there aren't any heavy hitters among the wardens whose names we know, outside of Chandler and Harry -- but there are probably a number of powerful wizards who never signed up. Too busy pyramid sitting or being very, very married.
But I guess we'll see -- we've been promised that a "complement" of Wardens will be summoned, which suggests more than the four who are already present.
Luccio is still far more formidable than Harry by virtue of precision,
and she's had years since her last appearance to recover.
And there are still the veterans who were escorting Mai in TC, unless they've been KIA skirmishing with the Fomor since Harry has been incommunicado.
The "heavy hitters" were the Brute Squad -- the ones that were killed at Archangelsk offscreen before Summer Knight.
I'd say no, there aren't any heavy hitters among the wardens whose names we know, outside of Chandler and Harry
Can Eb be considered a Warden? He was heading up the security and seemed to be in charge of them. He is a very heavy hitter.
Eb's absolutely a heavy hitter, but I don't think he's a Warden anymore.
Though he apparently was one in the 19th century, I believe there's a reference to McCoy the Captain of the Wardens in "Fistful of Warlocks".
I don't think so... at least not more formidable in general.
In certain situations, absolutely she'd have an advantage - like having to fight in close quarters with innocent bystanders without gear to focus her spells (like Harry with the octokongs at the beginning of SG).
But in a more open fight, which was what I was thinking of in terms of "heavy hitters", I think current-era Harry's power advantage is too large for Luccio's skill advantage to cancel out.
I doubt it. We've seen what other Wizards can do in the series, and it's pretty clear that Harry... to be blunt, he sucks ass at Wizarding.
Luccio was already a better fighter then him in the goddamn frontier days, and she's has a lot of time to practice since then.
Molly, his half-baked Apprentice, notes that he's not as good as she is at Tracking Spells, one of the things that Harry considers himself good at.
And then there's Butters, who's doesn't even have the ability to use magic- and somehow, is still better at being a Wizard then Harry. Jim has always been an advocate of skill>power, it's why Murphy can defeat people three times her size with supernatural powers.
Sure Harry is a walking artillery cannon, but most decent Wizards would wreck him, and Luccio's had a fair amount of time to adjust to her new body since we last saw her, so she's probably not as crippled as she once was.
Well, haven't we already seen them? I mean a complement of Wardens jumped Harry in Peace Talks just before he saw Lara. Can Eb be considered a Warden? He was heading up the security and seemed to be in charge of them. He is a very heavy hitter.
The Wardens are seriously underpowered to police the world, not just individual power but numbers. No wonder Harry recruits a mob. The Wardens need to recruit a National Guard of Paranetters and clued up vanilla mortals to aid in major emergencies. Sounds like a job for Murphy.
Yeah, but will she do it? She might view recruiting fighters as an effort to keep her safe.. From the trailer, she either was cured by some miracle because she seems to be in the middle of the fight, or it is misleading. You point out one of the flaws of Peace Talks, it does little to set up a plausible defense, the Wardens seemed more worried about what Harry was up to than setting up good security for the talks. Hell, they didn't even have any stone Foo Dogs to check out the attendees.
The wardens weren't in charge of security for the talks -- just security for the Senior Councilors who attended. Marcone was in charge of overall security -- hence, what's-his-name with the living dog and all the einherjar who get gunned down like useless redshirts by the fomor mooks.(click to show/hide)
Marcone was in charge of overall security -- hence, what's-his-name with the living dog and all the einherjar who get gunned down like useless redshirts by the fomor mooks.
Yeah, Vadderung and Gard ought to be ashamed of themselves.. The dead warriors they picked to go to Vahalla to fight in the final battle are next to useless.. Unless it was all a set up and a diversion. Which brings me back to the continual whine about the Senior Council suddenly wanting to kick Harry out of the White Council and demote him back to apprentice? What's the point of that?
Yeah, Vadderung and Gard ought to be ashamed of themselves.. The dead warriors they picked to go to Vahalla to fight in the final battle are next to useless.. Unless it was all a set up and a diversion. Which brings me back to the continual whine about the Senior Council suddenly wanting to kick Harry out of the White Council and demote him back to apprentice? What's the point of that?Eh, given the background I've concluded Einherjar are basically the Odin-mooks from back when they were guarding the gates. Hence they're no more special than your Fae like Trolls and such - scary in their field of competence, not nearly as capable when out of their comfort zone. In this case, battlefield warriors as festival guards... seems more like a job for Valkyries than Einherjar, from what we've seen.
Eh, given the background I've concluded Einherjar are basically the Odin-mooks from back when they were guarding the gates. Hence they're no more special than your Fae like Trolls and such - scary in their field of competence, not nearly as capable when out of their comfort zone. In this case, battlefield warriors as festival guards... seems more like a job for Valkyries than Einherjar, from what we've seen.
It's been years, yeah, but do we know if recovery is possible? (Or rather, more than she's already shown in SmF/TC, which are already a couple years after DB.)She mentioned that it would take a few decades for her magic to make a full recovery.
If her new body just doesn't have the power capability of her old one (and I don't think that grad student was a wizard) she might have hit an upper limit.
Molly, his half-baked Apprentice, notes that he's not as good as she is at Tracking Spells, one of the things that Harry considers himself good at.I thought it was just that Harry likes using props as part of his tracking spells?
Luccio was already a better fighter then him in the goddamn frontier days, and she's has a lot of time to practice since then.
Molly, his half-baked Apprentice, notes that he's not as good as she is at Tracking Spells, one of the things that Harry considers himself good at.
Sure Harry is a walking artillery cannon, but most decent Wizards would wreck him
I doubt it. We've seen what other Wizards can do in the series, and it's pretty clear that Harry... to be blunt, he sucks ass at Wizarding.That's a perspective, and not necessarily a invalid one. It's true that Jim often plays around with strengths and skills to create more interesting scenes - but that can lead to discrepancies in appearance. There is often a gap between what the author intends and the reader interprets, but that isn't helped when even Harry isn't the most reliable narrator.
Luccio was already a better fighter then him in the goddamn frontier days, and she's has a lot of time to practice since then.
Molly, his half-baked Apprentice, notes that he's not as good as she is at Tracking Spells, one of the things that Harry considers himself good at.
And then there's Butters, who's doesn't even have the ability to use magic- and somehow, is still better at being a Wizard then Harry. Jim has always been an advocate of skill>power, it's why Murphy can defeat people three times her size with supernatural powers.
Sure Harry is a walking artillery cannon, but most decent Wizards would wreck him, and Luccio's had a fair amount of time to adjust to her new body since we last saw her, so she's probably not as crippled as she once was.
And then there is the argument of what dangerous or powerful really mean in terms of Wizards. The Merlin (Arthur Langtry) is both the most powerful Wizard in terms of magical muscle AND political and personal power. But it is well acknowledged that Ebeneezer is the most dangerous combat Wizard alive. He would be one of the few who might top Dresden for fights, and his kill count is clearly off the charts. But even he isn't the most dangerous Wizard. It is Rashid. And while Jim hasn't elaborated why that is, it isn't hard to tell. Rashid could cause more damage to the Universe than any of them, if he wanted to misuse/abuse his knowledge and position (not to mention if he simply failed or abandoned his duties). Beyond that, it is hinted between his age (and the knowledge and power that comes with it) and his possible (but likely) ability to gauge varying futures and their given probabilities it would be extremely difficult to out-think him. Not to mention what other tricks/skills he has. Every Wizard gives him major respect. As Jim has often shown and discussed - what really counts is knowledge, planning and execution.
None of which is to say Harry is bad at Wizarding. I admit I do find it odd Harry is more like a Warlock in that he mostly excels at destructive, flashy magic (maybe a hint...) and that he struggles with things like veils, but everyone has different strengths too. Truth is, most Warlocks might only be good at one or two things. Maybe some mental magic, or maybe some evocation. But the fact he can do a little of everything is important. As he points out in Skin Game - not just anyone can open a Way. It takes years of practice, study and discipline. Hannah Ascher was considered White Council level in terms of raw power but her skills and abilities were highly limited. Being White Council is both a sign of the practitioners raw power AND of their level of skill and study (generally). So the fact Harry can do veils at all on top of the fact he can do everything else says a lot.A wizard never stops learning, while he was piss poor at it in Storm Front, now he can do a respectable one. We forget that Harry was an apprentice drop out. His first master, Justin was very selective in what he taught him because eventually he wanted to use him. His second master, Eb had to teach the ethics that Justin never taught him. These ethics were vital to Harry keeping his head under the Doom. Also Harry admittedly was lazy in his youth, like a lot of bright kids, he did what came easy and didn't apply himself to study skills that took more work to be decent at. When he took on Molly he learned the nature of veils from her natural ability to do them. He also became a better student so he could teach, thus greatly improved his own knowledge and skills as Eb predicted he would.
My question is, how is she able to do it in the first place? The RPG thingy has weight, and I doubt are totally without a kick of some sort. Her shoulder and arm are still injured, so how does she manage that? To ride a motorcycle requires balance, which is difficult to maintain if one has crippling injuries especially with a big man like Harry sitting behind you. Not to mention that it isn't going to be a clear straight street that she'd be driving down. Dodging and turning and jumping over with the bike requires strength to compensate, she isn't in the shape she was in in Cold Days.RPGS dont have a great deal of kick depending on the design, most lob the rocket out the end about ten feet or so before the rocket engages so it's only the initial 'bloop' that's felt as recoil.
Yeah, Vadderung and Gard ought to be ashamed of themselves.. The dead warriors they picked to go to Vahalla to fight in the final battle are next to useless.. Unless it was all a set up and a diversion. Which brings me back to the continual whine about the Senior Council suddenly wanting to kick Harry out of the White Council and demote him back to apprentice? What's the point of that?idk but I keep thinking about what Eb tells harry, how it's all a distraction. It felt like one of JB's patented cluebat drops disguised as talking about something else. Like it's all there to keep us caught up in what's going on so we don't focus on what we should be
RPGS dont have a great deal of kick depending on the design, most lob the rocket out the end about ten feet or so before the rocket engages so it's only the initial 'bloop' that's felt as recoil.
So okay, but it still has weight, right? If her shoulder assembly is still healing that is rather difficult.looked it up based on what it looks like, an At4 model, it has zero recoil because it vents it from the back(don't stand there!) And weighs a mere 18 pounds. So feasible for Murphy still I think.
Also while it is just a bloop to someone like you, how would it work for an injured person?
looked it up based on what it looks like, an At4 model, it has zero recoil because it vents it from the back(don't stand there!) And weighs a mere 18 pounds. So feasible for Murphy still I think.
Depends on situation, I think. For fighting around a lot of innocent bystanders without gear - yeah.
For something like a big open battle that's probably coming in BG ... I don't think so.
Her narrow beam fire attacks are a lot more efficient for putting down a lot of Fomor grunts quickly by sweeping through a crowd than Harry generating massive plumes of fire.
Her narrow beam fire attacks are a lot more efficient for putting down a lot of Fomor grunts quickly by sweeping through a crowd than Harry generating massive plumes of fire.
Her first problem would be getting to a fight. Murphy would probably have to be driven there unless Harry opened up a way that physically was only a few feet away even if it took her several miles away from her starting point. She'd still have to lug the AT-4 around. It makes far more sense for Murphy to driven somewhere, get dropped off and set up on the exact point on the sidewalk where she was dropped. Again, she has no options if Fomor aren't stopped dead in their tracks because she can't fall back at anything faster than a slow walk. At least she wouldn't have to lug the AT-4 around with her seeing as it's a one and done weapon.
Oh, Luccio would still be more efficient - but in this situation, probably not enough to make up for Harry's power advantage... which is a lot larger than it used to be (not only Luccio's loss of power, but Harry's ability to draw on Winter).
Harry hates to have to use Winter, but when he really needs to, his power is probably far beyond what a normal wizard could match. Raising the warehouse with ice in CD was really incredibly impressive when I looked at the volume that would need.
I don't think it would make him a match for Eb or the Merlin (who are both at the top end of power and skill) but post-bodyswap Luccio, sure.
Harry's so averse to using it that we don't see very much of what the Mantle can really do for him, but when we do, it's quite impressive.
Look at the trailer when Carlos takes his best shot and the flames partly and briefly turn green, compared to Harry who doesn’t use Fuego or Forzare, he uses Friga and all the flames turn Winter ice blue for much longer. He may have hit the Fomor with a glacier.I assume you're not counting the cloud of ice and fog he called up.
When he fought with Eb, Harry didn’t draw on Winter or soulfire to enhance his spells, when he does he is going to surprise other wizards. And worry them. His ice spells may be more powerful than Eb’s Earth Magic.
Depends if it is just Molly. Mab, Titania, Sarissa and Odin are also there and who knows about Mac?Murphy isn't entirely an idiot, though. She might fall for Molly, who is notionally on Harry's side in the Fae rigamarole and seems like a distorted reflection of a friend.
Harry is more effective when working with Murphy, Mab knows this, a healed Murphy in return for Murphy’s service to Mab (like Elaine with Aurora). Titania offers to heal Murphy for her service, and after the battle deny her to Harry as revenge for the loss of her daughter. She doesn’t even have to become the Summer Knight.
Murphy isn't entirely an idiot, though. She might fall for Molly, who is notionally on Harry's side in the Fae rigamarole and seems like a distorted reflection of a friend.
It could even serve as a source of tension, when she finds out Molly Carpenter is no more, and Molly the Winter Lady now deals in mostly bad faith like all the Fae (except to their vassals, like Harry).
Re: Murphy's physical condition...
Harry did say: "Unless you want to get Faustian."
Sure, Murphy said no quite firmly when they were sitting on the couch with no idea what's coming. Watching a titan and an army of fomor coming to kill everyone in Chicago is something quite different, though.
I wonder what kind of deal Molly might be able to offer her, for a limited-time healing just to get her back in the fight for one night?
I've always wondered what Warden/White Council battle tactics were.
I've always thought ward masters on the front line, pyromancers just behind as artillery and every so often a Tank like Morgan or Ebenezar or Harry charging the lines trying to take out the commander.
Key word, "deal" which means the healing won't come for free. Now Molly also loves Harry on a number of levels, so for his happiness she might not ask for much in return... Then again, there may be a "Fae Pay Scale," or in other words, healing comes at a high price and Molly might not have many options.
Yes. If we learned anything from Cold Case it's that Molly's own wants come second to Winter Law. (See: inability to tell Carlos what she was up to) I flinched when I saw Harry make an open-ended "I'll owe you one" deal with the Winter Lady. That was a spectacularly stupid unforced error, which will almost certainly come back to bite him in the rear.
Yes. If we learned anything from Cold Case it's that Molly's own wants come second to Winter Law. (See: inability to tell Carlos what she was up to) I flinched when I saw Harry make an open-ended "I'll owe you one" deal with the Winter Lady. That was a spectacularly stupid unforced error, which will almost certainly come back to bite him in the rear.Maybe but we also have seen that the Sidhe have some flexibility in how to balance the scales. Molly is still on Harry's side and that does make a difference. They do not always want to trick you. Molly did not have to warn Harry about it.
It could even serve as a source of tension, when she finds out Molly Carpenter is no more, and Molly the Winter Lady now deals in mostly bad faith like all the Fae (except to their vassals, like Harry).
Maybe but we also have seen that the Sidhe have some flexibility in how to balance the scales. Molly is still on Harry's side and that does make a difference. They do not always want to trick you. Molly did not have to warn Harry about it.
Both Harry and Thomas survived, success, and Harry won the game in Eb’s head, Eb will never be able to take him on like that ever again. double success.
She was showing some reasons for concern in the summoning scene, but I don't think she's that far gone. In Christmas Eve after BG, she still seemed mostly human rather than mostly not, and Harry didn't seem to be carrying the kind of grudge against her that screwing over Karrin would have most definitely caused.
The "great health package" at Monoc has been foreshadowed enough that turning to Vadderung once she sees the trouble they're in seems like the most likely explanation for going from premature removal of a cast to fighting shape in a day.Maybe but she wasn't exactly in fighting shape in the first chapter of Battleground. Again I find it odd that Harry gave Lara no credit for her assistance in fighting the kracken.
Lara a was fighting the Kraken not to protect Harry, but Thomas and made that expressly clear. Repeatedly.
I am surprised the Wardens didn’t recruit some of the older guys, like Klaus the Toymaker who apparently was active during WW2, a mere 80 years before his appearance in Summer Knight. He should be young enough to take the field, and what he could do with a hula hoop would make Ethnui regret invading Chicago.
Indeed if one is familiar with UK Sitcom “Dads Army” set in WW2 about the British Homeguard, I can easily see this transposed to the Dresdenverse with elderly Wizards like Klaus, as a group of elderly, bumbling but deadly old men called back into service. They drafted the younger Wardens for service in the field, why not some of the older guys to replace them protecting Edinburgh?. Arthur Langtry would make an excellent Captain Mainwearing. Indeed it would be prudent for The Merlin to bolster the ranks of the Wardens with more Wizards closer his age, and he may have, the young Wardens were sequestered by a group of non Warden allies of The Merlin at one point when Edinburgh went lockdown.
Yes. If we learned anything from Cold Case it's that Molly's own wants come second to Winter Law. (See: inability to tell Carlos what she was up to) I flinched when I saw Harry make an open-ended "I'll owe you one" deal with the Winter Lady. That was a spectacularly stupid unforced error, which will almost certainly come back to bite him in the rear.Unforced error?
There's a line from an episode of Babylon 5 where a perplexed character says of a reply they received from a questioned they asked, "That was a stirring reply, Citizen G'Kar. Unfortunately, while all answers are replies, not all replies are answers." Molly telling Harry that doing something that he sees as a terrible thing to do, is necessary, isn't going to make him feel any better about himself, Molly or Winter in general. Whatever Molly asks in return for the favor that she granted Harry is going to carry a high price tag in return. After all, her favor saved Harry's life, the payment will have to be commensurate with that.
What Harry does not understand and what Molly certainly does, is the nature of the Winter Lady's job. It may be a necessary role for Molly to play, but it has a real ugly side to it, as we saw in the short story Cold Case. Harry knows that Winter maintains a huge army at the Outer Gates to fight off Outsider incursions, but he has no idea how Winter recruits its soldiers.
Maybe, or she could ask Harry to tell the truth about her to her father and mother.Uh... Isn't there a dragon to slay somewhere else?
Harry worst nightmare caught between Charity and Mab.
He might consider accepting a coin to get out of that one.. :(
Really? Caught between Charity, Mab AND Lasciel ? How is that making things better?
I didn't specify Lasciel, did I? There are other coins out there.They wouldn’t help him either.
Harry can always call Laschiel’s coin to him, he can’t any other, and most of them are in use. He is far better calling on Uriel.
Uriel may think twice about showing up though, he knows Mab and Charity.
Last resort, call up the Erlking as the goblins are likely to be more merciful.
The "heavy hitters" were the Brute Squad -- the ones that were killed at Archangelsk offscreen before Summer Knight.Isn't a brute squad mentioned in TC? Obviously not the ones that got blown up with Simon.
Molly, his half-baked Apprentice, notes that he's not as good as she is at Tracking Spells, one of the things that Harry considers himself good at.Molly was wrong. Harry did something similar to what she's doing in SF. He just never showed her how or mentioned that it could be done to her, so she assumed he didn't know.
And then there's Butters, who's doesn't even have the ability to use magic- and somehow, is still better at being a Wizard then Harry.Bob says Butters has a better understanding of magical theory than Harry. The thing about Butters is that he's literally a genius, so that's understandable. Bob also says that Harry's pulled things off that most of his previous masters couldn't.
Sure Harry is a walking artillery cannon, but most decent Wizards would wreck him.He killed a veteran warden when he was 16. Harry would mop the floor with almost any wizard he faced.
Hide behind Morgan, and look busy.Lol.
Yes. If we learned anything from Cold Case it's that Molly's own wants come second to Winter Law. (See: inability to tell Carlos what she was up to) I flinched when I saw Harry make an open-ended "I'll owe you one" deal with the Winter Lady. That was a spectacularly stupid unforced error, which will almost certainly come back to bite him in the rear.And he had the opportunity to have her redeem the favor in return for his help with coming clean to her parents. It's easy to get around any simple requirement for gifts and balance when you're friends who constantly do things for one another.
The "great health package" at Monoc has been foreshadowed enough that turning to Vadderung once she sees the trouble they're in seems like the most likely explanation for going from premature removal of a cast to fighting shape in a day.And Odin's not a fairy.
Maybe, or she could ask Harry to tell the truth about her to her father and mother.Except he already agreed to help her do that.
Yes but in true Fae tradition he intends to tell Michael and Charity through the medium of interpretative dance, this is why he is familiar with Frozen on Christmas Eve, he had been studying Elsa’s choreography.And he'll pull off the hair through the arm thing