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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Dina on October 19, 2020, 10:39:32 PM
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There is a couple of things I want to comment about PT but they may involve BG spoilers, so be careful.
In the fight Eb-fake Harry, Eb throw a big mass of stones to the water beetle. If he had succeeded in hitting it, there is a chance that Murphy died? Would it have counted as killing humans with magic?
(I am sure Eb really thought he would just break the boat and that if Murphy needed help he would have been able to help but my question is hypothetical.)
After the first appearance of Ethniu, when everyone is talking about what they will do to contribute to the fight, Sarissa's contribution is saying that she will coordinate communications using the Little Folk. And she even suggested working in the roof. But that confuses me because I thought the little folk were wild, not Summer vassals, and because it seems to reduce the importance of what Harry did with his pizzas. Everyone felt the same?
Murphy was only 4 years away of taking off the plaster so it is not that bad that he did. And the point she moves quite well except for the pain. Of course, by quite well I mean she still has her problems she is still injured and would have need physiotherapy. But I mean that she was not tripping or having trouble staying on her foot. With that in mind, it makes sense like when in BG her pain was taken away she would act more or less like the old Murphy (but she would have been unable of having a martial arts hand to hand combat, if she had tried).
Since the beginning, the Titan dismissed Marcone because he is a mortal so, can't she felt the Fallen in him until he revealed himself?
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In the fight Eb-fake Harry, Eb throw a big mass of stones to the water beetle. If he had succeeded in hitting it, there is a chance that Murphy died? Would it have counted as killing humans with magic?
I'm about as confident that the answer to this question is yes as I am about any question of how anything works in DF. Jim has that old WoJ about blowing someone off a roof is killing them with magic even though the it was the sudden stop after the fall that killed them.
But that confuses me because I thought the little folk were wild, not Summer vassals
Some are Summer, some are Winter, most are wild. Go back to the end of Summer Knight to what Mab says about a mortal drawing on the wild fae. Also the part towards the beginning where Toot talks about the call.
Since the beginning, the Titan dismissed Marcone because he is a mortal so, can't she felt the Fallen in him until he revealed himself?
I doubt it because she dismissed him because he is a mortal.
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Well, it seems that Sarissa's work was less than stellar until Harry steps in, then :)
Yes, I had the idea that some were Winter, some were Summer, most were wild, but Sarissa's words made it sound as if they were all Summer, or at least, that is how it sounded in my mind.
I am sure I had more reread thought to share but I don't remember now. I do remember that I laughed a lot when Butters said that Sanya's flight has been delayed SEVEN times. That should have spelled that problems were going to be BIG. Also, I remember now that I was expecting him and Sanya to cross the streams (contact their blades) to harm the Titan in the final moments of the battle (before Odin and Lara taking the Eye off her)
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Murphy was only 4 years away of taking off the plaster so it is not that bad that he did. And the point she moves quite well except for the pain. Of course, by quite well I mean she still has her problems she is still injured and would have need physiotherapy. But I mean that she was not tripping or having trouble staying on her foot. With that in mind, it makes sense like when in BG her pain was taken away she would act more or less like the old Murphy (but she would have been unable of having a martial arts hand to hand combat, if she had tried).
It isn't just a pain issue though, Dina, even if the injuries that had been operated on had healed. 1] Not all the damage had been repaired, remember she was facing another round of surgery to further repair things and then it couldn't make her like she was. 2] If her knee and shoulder/elbow were immobilized for two or three months, healed or not, pain or not, the muscles just do not bounce back that quickly. It takes a bit for them to get strong again, especially if the damage was as bad as we are led to believe.
After the first appearance of Ethniu, when everyone is talking about what they will do to contribute to the fight, Sarissa's contribution is saying that she will coordinate communications using the Little Folk. And she even suggested working in the roof. But that confuses me because I thought the little folk were wild, not Summer vassals, and because it seems to reduce the importance of what Harry did with his pizzas. Everyone felt the same?
Me too, but wasn't that before Harry called up Toot and Z'Gard?
In the fight Eb-fake Harry, Eb throw a big mass of stones to the water beetle. If he had succeeded in hitting it, there is a chance that Murphy died? Would it have counted as killing humans with magic?
(I am sure Eb really thought he would just break the boat and that if Murphy needed help he would have been able to help but my question is hypothetical.)
One would think that he could be. However as Blackstaff isn't he exempt? Having kind of a 007 license to kill? But that wouldn't apply to vanilla humans would it? I guess he could always claim that it was an accident, he didn't know she was on board. Or he didn't intend to hurt anyone, just stop the boat.. Then blame Harry because he wouldn't stop the boat and it had Thomas in it.
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It isn't just a pain issue though, Dina, even if the injuries that had been operated on had healed. 1] Not all the damage had been repaired, remember she was facing another round of surgery to further repair things and then it couldn't make her like she was. 2] If her knee and shoulder/elbow were immobilized for two or three months, healed or not, pain or not, the muscles just do not bounce back that quickly. It takes a bit for them to get strong again, especially if the damage was as bad as we are led to believe.
Yes, Mira, that is why I said she was still injured and would have still need therapy. And she wouldn't have been able to fight a martial art. But what I've meant was that if she was ready to take the cast away (4 days wouldn't have make a significant difference) his body would have been more or less operative. The main restriction would have been the pain, and that is what Mab took away. She wouldn't have been able to ride a normal bicycle due to the effort for her legs, but I don't think it's so much of a stretch to imagine her riding a motorcycle. Think this, af first. when Harry helped her with the cast, she said that her hip were not used to a given movement. The idea is that her hip could do what she wanted, but the pain prevented her to do it.
So I think that Murphy was not supernaturally healed. She just was able to move like in extra heavy mega painkillers. She probably damaged herself even more and, had she lived, she would have probably been much worse than she was the day before.
The only thing I am not so sure is the bazooka, because I have not idea how heavy is it, and her arm was injured (not so bad as her knee). But I believe with Murphy excellent physical state before her injury, even after several months of plaster she would have been able to resist some weight.
It isn't just a pain issue though, Dina, even if the injuries that had been operated on had healed. 1] Not all the damage had been repaired, remember she was facing another round of surgery to further repair things and then it couldn't make her like she was. 2] If her knee and shoulder/elbow were immobilized for two or three months, healed or not, pain or not, the muscles just do not bounce back that quickly. It takes a bit for them to get strong again, especially if the damage was as bad as we are led to believe. Me too, but wasn't that before Harry called up Toot and Z'Gard?
Yes, much before, but this was my point. Why do "the allies" needed Harry to call the Z´Gard and all that if Sarissa was already on it with her own Little Folks?
One would think that he could be. However as Blackstaff isn't he exempt? Having kind of a 007 license to kill? But that wouldn't apply to vanilla humans would it? I guess he could always claim that it was an accident, he didn't know she was on board. Or he didn't intend to hurt anyone, just stop the boat.. Then blame Harry because he wouldn't stop the boat and it had Thomas in it.
Yes, I don't think Eb would have trouble with the White Council but a) it would have demanded her to lie, which I don't think he too comfortable with (secrets, omissions, yes. Straight lies? I don't think it's his style) and b) it proves he is more out of control than I thought, because he was ready to kill a human he knew Harry cared about and what? to fight Harry after that? Worst case scenario, Harry would have reacted like with Rudolph, or worse, much worse. Best case scenario, Harry would have been a witness at him killing a human and he would have need to call him a liar.
It just seem...too much. Even for Eb. So perhaps he is nemfected.
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The only thing I am not so sure is the bazooka, because I have not idea how heavy is it, and her arm was injured (not so bad as her knee). But I believe with Murphy excellent physical state before her injury, even after several months of plaster she would have been able to resist some weight.
I agree, but not to the extent that she did, I still think Jim fudged a little there.
Yes, much before, but this was my point. Why do "the allies" needed Harry to call the Z´Gard and all that if Sarissa was already on it with her own Little Folks?
Maybe they were the Brownies? Remember Lily ordered them to become Harry's housekeepers? Then there is Lacuna, isn't she Summer? So yes, Sarrissa does have some little folk at her command. But they needed warrior little folk to fight the flying squid things. So Harry called up Z'Gard, my question is, who anticipated it an got them properly outfitted in mini armor etc? I think that is what freaked out Christos and company, the fact that Harry had his own private army at his beck and call, be they tiny, they are loyal, brave, and fierce.
Yes, I don't think Eb would have trouble with the White Council but a) it would have demanded her to lie, which I don't think he too comfortable with (secrets, omissions, yes. Straight lies? I don't think it's his style) and b) it proves he is more out of control than I thought, because he was ready to kill a human he knew Harry cared about and what? to fight Harry after that? Worst case scenario, Harry would have reacted like with Rudolph, or worse, much worse. Best case scenario, Harry would have been a witness at him killing a human and he would have need to call him a liar.
It just seem...too much. Even for Eb. So perhaps he is nemfected.
What is weird there is once the battle began, he went back to being normal Eb.. Well, as far as being the most dangerous wizard on the planet is concerned.
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However as Blackstaff isn't he exempt? ... But that wouldn't apply to vanilla humans would it?
I think the exemption only applies when he's actually using the Blackstaff. If Changes he killed a bunch of vanilla mercenaries.
Yes, much before, but this was my point. Why do "the allies" needed Harry to call the Z´Gard and all that if Sarissa was already on it with her own Little Folks?
I think the reason is everyone besides Harry underestimates the Little Folk. We've seen them used as waiters and similar attendants by the Sidhe. Messengers is the biggest job we've seem them take. Harry's used them to fight several times.
It could also be that there just aren't that many Summer or Winter Little Folk. Jim's said (and maybe Harry has too, I just don't recall him saying so) that Wild Faerie is so much bigger than Winter or Summer.
I I don't recall seeing anything to suggest Lacuna was Summer. Isn't her hair purple, a Winter color? Or was it black?
Wasn't it either stated or implied that it was Molly who outfitted them?
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I actually thought the little ones armed themselves to the battle.
What is weird there is once the battle began, he went back to being normal Eb.. Well, as far as being the most dangerous wizard on the planet is concerned.
If he is nemfected, I think he is still not totally changed. Nemesis can exploit his hate for whampires making him out of control about that, but it can't stop him for protecting Chicago of an obvious evil attack
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I actually thought the little ones armed themselves to the battle. If he is nemfected, I think he is still not totally changed. Nemesis can exploit his hate for whampires making him out of control about that, but it can't stop him for protecting Chicago of an obvious evil attack
The only problem with that is Nemesis had a lot to do with the attack on Chicago in the first place. However I don't totally disagree with you, Eb's near hysterical level of hate did not seem logical with out a very good reason. It could have been just one more attempt at a distraction to get Harry out of the picture, or maybe even two birds with one stone if they had taken out each other. Harry did have that level and hatred towards the Ghouls during the war with the Reds, but at least we know the reason behind the hate, whether you agree with it or think it's over the top.
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The only problem with that is Nemesis had a lot to do with the attack on Chicago in the first place. However I don't totally disagree with you, Eb's near hysterical level of hate did not seem logical with out a very good reason. It could have been just one more attempt at a distraction to get Harry out of the picture, or maybe even two birds with one stone if they had taken out each other. Harry did have that level and hatred towards the Ghouls during the war with the Reds, but at least we know the reason behind the hate, whether you agree with it or think it's over the top.
They killed his daughter and they are evil monsters. Do you need more reasons?
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They killed his daughter and they are evil monsters. Do you need more reasons?
They killed someone else important to Eb. Someone that ranked higher in his thoughts than his daughter. When he mentioned that they had taken someone from him, Harry mentioned Margaret and Eb said "Her Too."
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They killed someone else important to Eb. Someone that ranked higher in his thoughts than his daughter. When he mentioned that they had taken someone from him, Harry mentioned Margaret and Eb said "Her Too."
Harry's grandma maybe????
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They killed his daughter and they are evil monsters. Do you need more reasons?
No, but apparently Eb has more.
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However as Blackstaff isn't he exempt? Having kind of a 007 license to kill? But that wouldn't apply to vanilla humans would it? I guess he could always claim that it was an accident, he didn't know she was on board. Or he didn't intend to hurt anyone, just stop the boat.. Then blame Harry because he wouldn't stop the boat and it had Thomas in it.
He definitely has a license to kill with the blackstaff. As far as I recall, he wasn't using it at the time. I don't think he was aware Murphy was on the boat at all.
Unless the blackstaff can remove the taint of killing someone after the fact, Harry may have saved Ebenezar from murdering Murphy (and technically Harry himself) without insulation.
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Oh yes, I think he knew Murphy was on the boat, I will reread it presently.
And I agree, the whampires probably killed Eb's wife. Or...perhaps Eb's mom, many time ago, when Eb was a child? It is the kind of trauma that can very well live for centuries. Whatever it is, I think it was something like Eb considers unfair, like the killing of a vanilla. In his mind, Maggie knew the risks of what she was doing messing with the whites. She was a wizard, wizards and whampires are enemies. But I've read the level of hate as if the whampires had killed a vanilla of big importance for Eb. His wife, a parent, a sibling, even another children. What if Margaret LeFay had a sibling who was killed by them in their childhood? It would be the same than them killing Maggie Jr. now, and that would explain how Eb exploded when he saw Maggie in the same house than Thomas.
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They killed someone else important to Eb. Someone that ranked higher in his thoughts than his daughter. When he mentioned that they had taken someone from him, Harry mentioned Margaret and Eb said "Her Too."
Yes, and it never was explained.
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I just reread and it is not awfully clear if Eb saw Murphy in the boat. She was on the wheel. Eb has to know that someone was driving (not Lara, as he saw Lara with Harry). I think he also saw Freydis. So perhaps he thought someone working for Lara was on the wheel and he chose to think it would be not a mortal. But it is not too clear, because there is a moment when Harry saw Murphy nodding to Lara and I think at that moment she was visible to Eb. That said, I am not sure. I would have liked that when Eb said "I'll sink the boat", Harry (or even Lara) would have told him "Are you sure? There are mortals inside"
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I just reread and it is not awfully clear if Eb saw Murphy in the boat. She was on the wheel. Eb has to know that someone was driving (not Lara, as he saw Lara with Harry). I think he also saw Freydis. So perhaps he thought someone working for Lara was on the wheel and he chose to think it would be not a mortal. But it is not too clear, because there is a moment when Harry saw Murphy nodding to Lara and I think at that moment she was visible to Eb. That said, I am not sure. I would have liked that when Eb said "I'll sink the boat", Harry (or even Lara) would have told him "Are you sure? There are mortals inside"
However by that time Eb was so out of control I don't think it would have mattered if he was told or not.
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Probably. Perhaps he would have said "I would rescue the humans from the lake after sinking the boat" or something. But I think his reaction would have been interesting to see.
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His wife, a parent, a sibling, even another children. What if Margaret LeFay had a sibling who was killed by them in their childhood?
Or maybe it was Eb's firstborn before Margaret was born and that's part of the wedge between them. He never told her about it, so she didn't understand why he was so cautious about everything.
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Yes, one I said a sibling I did not imply "a little one". In fact, I imagined a child born before Margaret and born before she was born.
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When you used their to mean third person singular of indeterminate gender, I assumed you meant their in third person plural. As in Margaret and the theoretical sibling.
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You are right, I was not clear. It could have been a child younger than Margaret too, but my first idea was the same as yours.
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Does anybody but me see that this fight with Eb and the doppelganger getting killed by Eb accidentally pulling the trigger on his spell as foreshadowing what Rudolph does to Murphy?
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Um...well...I don't know abpout "anybody" but I do not.
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Iris not just that. We have seen his reaction to the svartalves. To Kincaid. To basically everything that is not completely human.
Their feelings and opinions don’t matter. They will all hurt you because that is their nature. Better just to intimidate them because that is the only thing they understand.
Not completely untrue in most cases but it is that party line that believes killing anything not human is not a crime.
That mentality is probably widespread within the council and he has it strongly. They feel superior to anything else. See how he reacted to hearing Thomas was his grandson. See how he described duty as a trap. He might not even consider that Winter has a serious duty in defending the gates.
It is a mentality that brings you far and will be confirmed a lot of times but it will also make you blind for some things sometimes.
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You are right about that, but it seems with the whampires is worse.
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Well, here's what struck me.
mean. If the fake me had been me me, I would now be dead me. He didn’t mean to do it. But it happened. And he’s not who I thought he was. He was out of control.”
Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 309). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Which sums up Murphy's death.
On this other thing there isn't enough backstory. Eb's a one man death squad. He kills those who he thinks need killing. But when you wrestle in mud you get muddy and when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail.
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Well, here's what struck me.Which sums up Murphy's death.
On this other thing there isn't enough backstory. Eb's a one man death squad. He kills those who he thinks need killing. But when you wrestle in mud you get muddy and when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail.
You sometimes miss and smash your thumb? :o
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You are right, I was not clear.
Language is not clear. It's a common enough usage.
Does anybody but me see that this fight with Eb and the doppelganger getting killed by Eb accidentally pulling the trigger on his spell as foreshadowing what Rudolph does to Murphy?
I do now that you pointed it out. Or at least I can see the argument for it.