ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Psyklone on October 01, 2020, 09:59:24 AM
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Now that we know Nemesis took over Justine, does that clear Elaine? I have always suspected Elaine would be one of the baddies. How does Nemesis actually work? Are there more than one, because we know it got Cat Sith, as well, but it said it had Justine for a few years... Could it take over someone, and then just leave them lifeless for a bit and hop to someone else?
Now that Harry has implied he's going to beef up the paranet in his Castle, this would be a prime opportunity to have Elaine play an active role. Is she good, self interested, or nemesis? ;D
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Need to know how many people Nemisis / HE WHO WALKS BESIDE can infect at a time.
Did it jump from Leah to Justine? Were Cat Sith, and Meave possessed at the same time? If so, Justine as well?
How far can it reach, and can they possess a Starborn?
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I would assume, after the talk with Eb in PT about the powers of a starborn, that Harry is immune to HWWBS. Elaine only possibly being one when Justin picked her up doesn't mean she's is one and probably isn't immune.
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Now that we know Nemesis took over Justine, does that clear Elaine? I have always suspected Elaine would be one of the baddies. How does Nemesis actually work? Are there more than one, because we know it got Cat Sith, as well, but it said it had Justine for a few years... Could it take over someone, and then just leave them lifeless for a bit and hop to someone else?
Now that Harry has implied he's going to beef up the paranet in his Castle, this would be a prime opportunity to have Elaine play an active role. Is she good, self interested, or nemesis? ;D
I peg Elaine to be Murphy's role replacement, assuming Harry still need a default partner in crime during the series.
As of now, Murphy's old role as Harry's boss during the start of the series has been taken over by Mab. Now that Murphy is gone, her role as Harry's main sidekick need to be filled in, unless JB wants to revolutionize the entire format of the story which he has been using so far, which is entirely possible.
Harry now has enter another phase of the story. He has switch from the human camp to the monster camp now. Murphy's death seals this fact. The only vanilla human with enough influence over Harry who still has some respect over the letter of mortal laws aka Karrin Murphy is no more, while the battle of Chicago has put the supernatural world and the mortal authorities almost on opposite sides.
His friends, his allies are all involve in the supernatural world, even his daughter study in a supernatural based school. Harry's connection to the world of vanilla mortals is almost severed in BG with only members of the carpenter family as the remaining link.
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He has Michael and charity. Butters and the alphas. Santa. I think his connection with his oldest friends will only gets stronger.
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He has Michael and charity. Butters and the alphas. Santa. I think his connection with his oldest friends will only gets stronger.
Butters and the Alphas are supernatural to begin with. With the tension between mortal authorities and the supernatural denizens grow more severe, it won't surprise me if these people will get marginalize by mortal authorities like the Librarians.
Only the carpenter family is full vanilla and though they don't have any supernatural powers or bloodlines of their own, their eldest daughter is the winter lady and Harry Dresden the high profile Chicago wizard is their family friend. Knowing how ugly this could become, it won't surprise me if even the carpenter family would be considered supernatural by association in the eyes of the mortal authorities.
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I think we can argue about Butters. He's not supernatural, he just carries the only functional lightsaber in the world. Take it away and he's just a good man. Would you consider Murphy supernatural if she had taken up a sword?
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Butters is as human as it gets, so is Michael, they have dished out morality and common sense to Harry for years. There is nothing supernatural about them at all, they just wield Holy Swords.
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I think we can argue about Butters. He's not supernatural, he just carries the only functional lightsaber in the world. Take it away and he's just a good man. Would you consider Murphy supernatural if she had taken up a sword?
I think Butters is vanilla, but would those politicians in office would think the same? Would the Librarians think the same? That's the question.
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He's not Vanilla, he's the only person who's come into contact with Harry who's life has actually gotten consistently better because of it, there has to be something supernatural going on there.
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Elaine is one of two other wizard talents Harry knows (the other is Mort) who are not White Council, he would be reaching out to both of them I would imagine. But working with her regularly, no, she has her own practice in LA.
His day to day partner is likely to be Bradley, I think he will end up in SI and assigned against his will as liaison to Harry, Rawlins is retiring. I think this was one reason for the soulgaze, Harry knows Bradley is completely solid (in every sense of the word).
Harry can offer him something no one else can, day care at the Castle, the best protected day care possible. I would though see if Charity would like to set up and run the day care, she has been a full -time mother (and armourer and sparring partner), it would be a good cause use of the Carpenter diamonds, and could specialise in Paranetters kids and changelings.
It is likely I think that the Great Hall will survive, as a meeting and Lecture room for the local community and Paranetters. I don’t think Harry is going to distinguish between the two groups. I think he will also offer it as a base for the Knights to work from.
He will need employees and I can think of a couple of candidates. Gary will have the opportunity to move out of his mothers basement and into Harry’s running the protected tech with Bob (Bob give up the Internet, no way). Gary is an oracle, I suspect he has a highly developed mortal pattern recognition ability like most hackers and his low level talent puts a twist on that giving him extra gears. An oracle would be very useful for Harry.
He is going to needs PA’s/Managers, who better than Marcie and Andi. He is also going to need housekeeping staff for general maintenance and cleaning, and a couple of Alphas on site to help with protection woulld make sense I presume he is going to retain guest accommodation etc which need to be serviced, probably a couple of college level Paranetters.
Oh and Butters, he is a vanilla mortal, but like all the Knights it is real high quality vanilla pod ice cream, none of your cheap fake vanilla essence with a deluxe chocolate flake, and an expensive butterscotch syrup on top (each of the Knights have their own flavour). Not all vanilla mortal are equal.
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I think Butters is vanilla, but would those politicians in office would think the same? Would the Librarians think the same? That's the question.
Hmmmm. I see your conflict. But I think, being a part of the church and the church never being part of the Accords, the Knights get a pass. They kinda more work for the MIB, even though they don't, so they might be looked over because of what they do for them.
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I still think Elaine is a very fine thrall and that she is Kumori.
Based on the fact that all the players seem to have their very own Starborn on the team (Listen for Ethniu for example, Harry for Winter and the White Council etc), I'd say that Kumori and/or Elaine (depending if they are the same person) are Starborn. In which case, Elaine would be immune to Nemesis. Which isn't to say they don't work together. Justin was working with He Who Walks Behind after all.
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Need to know how many people Nemisis / HE WHO WALKS BESIDE can infect at a time.
Did it jump from Leah to Justine? Were Cat Sith, and Meave possessed at the same time? If so, Justine as well?
How far can it reach, and can they possess a Starborn?
We have every reason to believe that Nemesis can infect numerous beings at once. We know that Aurora was infected at the time of SK events. Leah was infected somewhere between GP and PG, but the line in SK where Maeve said she just came from Leah, without any other plot purpose, points to her being exposed at that time.
Later during PG, Leah is infected at the same time Maeve is. Then we have the potential that Elder Fetch was also infected in PG, so possibly another case of up to three at once.
We know Maeve and Sith were both infected in Cold Days, so there's two again. I don't think Justine was infected yet at that point, because Maeve specifically called out that Justine was close to Lara and that she wanted to talk to her. Everyone should have known Justine was a target at that point, but I think the lack of understanding of Beside prevented them.
Then there were a whole bunch of people listed by Lily in Cold Days that were infected and/or influenced by Beside, which I think at this point has to be considered accurate. That included Sells, Denton, and others. So at least three, if not more, at once. I'd like to think there was a cap of three to puppet at once.
All that being said, I still hypothesize that Black Magic (killing with magic, along with some or all of the other laws of magic) opens a door in the psyche/brain/spirit/soul, and it allows the corruption to seep in. The corruption isn't Nemesis/Beside, but he can use the same door to enter and manipulate people.
That's why the Council takes such a hard line against the law-breakers.
In Justine's case, the question is who infected her, how, and when. It didn't seem to happen on the island during Cold Days, but it could have been done during her kidnapping prior to that. But that would mean someone else on the Red Cap's team infected her, and Maeve was just catching up with her to-do list on the island.
If not during the kidnapping, then it was likely sometime between the end of Cold Days and Peace Talks. It was likely in the events prior to Even Hand, where she's just escaped from Corb's people with the prisoners and the girl. Maybe it didn't go the way she remembered, but Beside manipulated her memories.
That would make the story more relevant to the overall plot, as it illuminated the specific event where she was compromised.
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If not during the kidnapping, then it was likely sometime between the end of Cold Days and Peace Talks. It was likely in the events prior to Even Hand, where she's just escaped from Corb's people with the prisoners and the girl. Maybe it didn't go the way she remembered, but Beside manipulated her memories.
That would make the story more relevant to the overall plot, as it illuminated the specific event where she was compromised.
Nemesis itself said sometime after getting close to Lara. if that can be believed, remember her actions during White Night. Harry was surprised to see Justine actually lucid and ambulatory while waiting to be introduced in the Nut Cave (the Deeps) She glossed over it quickly, but I think it was Nemesis.
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He's not Vanilla, he's the only person who's come into contact with Harry who's life has actually gotten consistently better because of it, there has to be something supernatural going on there.
Yeah, Uriel is running that show. Butters life has gotten better because he is an intelligent guy who showed intellectual bravery early on when he went to a mental institution instead of lying about what he found during his medical exams in the morgue. He has always kept an open mind about what he has witnessed. If his life has gotten better, it's because of that and the people and beings it has put him in contact with.
Nemesis itself said sometime after getting close to Lara. if that can be believed, remember her actions during White Night. Harry was surprised to see Justine actually lucid and ambulatory while waiting to be introduced in the Nut Cave (the Deeps) She glossed over it quickly, but I think it was Nemesis.
Yeah, I believe she was infected as far back as Grave Peril. That is when her mental health seemed to be stabilizing which was attributed to the light feeding Thomas was doing on her. Then at the end of Blood Rites she almost died to save Thomas, but as soon as she recovered she became Lara's secretary and confidant, she was also spying supposedly for Harry. But one has to wonder, who else got the information and was she selective in the feeding of it.
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The question I have is how much of her is actually in there or if after the feeding nothing is left and it's all HWWBS
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The question I have is how much of her is actually in there or if after the feeding nothing is left and it's all HWWBS
I think she is still there but her nature is changed but the same rules apply as with Lea. If she really wants it she can get back with the right help.
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That would presumes the Walker is in love with Thomas.
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That would presumes the Walker is in love with Thomas.
Not necessarily. Thomas took almost all of her. If HWWBS stepped in shortly thereafter, enough was there to keep the protection, but he was in the driver's seat, not letting her live and come back. He steps out, will she be there enough to function.
Maybe she's always been in charge up until after CD and the failure another of his controls. Which brings up the controversy we had a few years back with if Murphy was Nemfected, why throw away the chance he had in CD
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Yeah, I believe she was infected as far back as Grave Peril. That is when her mental health seemed to be stabilizing which was attributed to the light feeding Thomas was doing on her. Then at the end of Blood Rites she almost died to save Thomas, but as soon as she recovered she became Lara's secretary and confidant, she was also spying supposedly for Harry. But one has to wonder, who else got the information and was she selective in the feeding of it.
That doesn't track with what Maeve says in Cold Days on Demonreach.
Justine made a quiet sound and went to Mac's side.
Maeve's eyes fastened on her. "And the vampire's crumpet. Luscious little thing, aren't you? And so close to Lady Raith. You and I are going to have a long talk after this, darling. I just know you're going to start to see things my way."
It sounds like Maeve and Beside are picking their next target right then and there. She's not talking like Justine is already infected.
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Now that Harry has implied he's going to beef up the paranet in his Castle, this would be a prime opportunity to have Elaine play an active role. Is she good, self interested, or nemesis? ;D
Especially since he's been outlawed and is engaged to someone he has no interest in being married to.
I've always shipped Elaine, but I've also always thought her being one of the key players behind everything (or at least a lot of it) really fits.
I peg Elaine to be Murphy's role replacement, assuming Harry still need a default partner in crime during the series.
But why would she abandon LA? She hears about Harry being kicked out of the Council. Furious, she confronts Carlos over his betrayal of Harry and outs herself as a wizard level talent, either on purpose or accident. She has to flee to Chicago to join Harry's Grey Council. What Harry said about the Council fits with what Elaine has always said about how she views the Council as domineering.
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That doesn't track with what Maeve says in Cold Days on Demonreach.
It sounds like Maeve and Beside are picking their next target right then and there. She's not talking like Justine is already infected.
We have to re-evaluate Justine's actions ever since White Night at least. I re-read Even Hand yesterday and it totally makes sense if you assume that Nemesis made her involve Marcone in the first place. She got to check him out. Marcone was in possession of Namshiel's coin, who is probably the Nemfected Fallen. If Marcone had lost, the coin would have been available again, maybe for her to retrieve it and look for a suitable host. In case he won, as he did, a minor Fomor lord was lost, but Marcone would have been motivated to pick up the coin himself. I suppose that is what happened. At some point after Even Hand he decided that he needed a power-up very badly.
Cold Days is tricky. I always found it odd that Thomas insisted on taking her along in the first place. She would have been much safer at Castle Raith ...
At the show- down, she neither helped Maeve nor team Harry. She just observed. As usual imo. Was she there to make sure that Maeve was not doing anything stupid? As Maeve then did?
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Cold Days is tricky. I always found it odd that Thomas insisted on taking her along in the first place. She would have been much safer at Castle Raith ...
At the show- down, she neither helped Maeve nor team Harry. She just observed. As usual imo. Was she there to make sure that Maeve was not doing anything stupid? As Maeve then did?
So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense. She was Maeve's "insurance policy." Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis). That ally was standing right there -- Justine. Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there.
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So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense. She was Maeve's "insurance policy." Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis). That ally was standing right there -- Justine. Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there.
Love it.
These little discoveries about things that were going on in the background in previous books are great fun.
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It sounds like Maeve and Beside are picking their next target right then and there. She's not talking like Justine is already infected.
Possible, but do we know whether or not Nemeses infestations keep in contact with one another? If it compartmentalizes like terror cells, Maeve may not have been aware that Justine was infected. That way, if one infestation victim is found out no others will be exposed.
So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense. She was Maeve's "insurance policy." Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis). That ally was standing right there -- Justine. Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there.
That is a better plan, but Maeve/Nemesis underestimated Mab. Mab had a contingency plan of her own, Molly, whom she had Lea prepare for acceptance of a mantle of some kind be it Summer or Winter.
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So, Justine's presence on the Island in Cold Days now makes a GREAT deal of sense. She was Maeve's "insurance policy." Maeve said something to the effect that you can't kill me because my mantle will go to some ally of mine (i.e. Nemesis). That ally was standing right there -- Justine. Little did Nemesis/Maeve/Justine understand that a much better vessel Molly was also right there.
I like this :)
Sarissa described herself as suffering from a heredical mental disease that has done bad things to her sister. Justine with no last name she'll admit to also (used to?) suffer from a strange mental condition. She really could be a changeling who would qualify for a Ladies Mantle.
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I like this :)
Sarissa described herself as suffering from a heredical mental disease that has done bad things to her sister. Justine with no last name she'll admit to also (used to?) suffer from a strange mental condition. She really could be a changeling who would qualify for a Ladies Mantle.
She said it was like a hereditary mental illness "that Mab was protecting (her) from."
Mab was delaying her Choice as long as she balanced her life between Winter and the mortal world.
It didn't need to be madness. Just a euphemism.
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Why not Goodman Grey as Harry's partner?
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Why not Goodman Grey as Harry's partner?
He did kind of hang out doing nothing much in BG, as if to remind us he's still there.
Plus he's a much more monster-y sidekick for 'monster'-Harry.
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I'm afraid that Grey is possibly among the Nemfected now. I wouldn't trust anyone who has been alone with Justine -- Thomas included -- for any length of time.
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I'm afraid that Grey is possibly among the Nemfected now. I wouldn't trust anyone who has been alone with Justine -- Thomas included -- for any length of time.
Unlikely, Jim has stated multiple times that he'd like to do a new series with Goodman Grey after he finishes the Dresden Files.
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It is not the flu. Nemesis makes the decision to infect someone.
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Unlikely, Jim has stated multiple times that he'd like to do a new series with Goodman Grey after he finishes the Dresden Files.
I had forgotten about that. Grey has plot armor then.