"There hadn't been time to see all her reasons, all her logic. I still didn't know why she had drawn me into this entire business-"Monica knows that magic is real, but why would she go looking in the yellow pages for a wizard to challenge her husband? Harry specifically states that his advertisement is located in the yellow pages under wizard, and that he is the only entry, so she didn't find him while looking for a PI to catch her husband red handed.
Another possible cluebat in this vein are Victor's job and his friends. When Monica goes to Harry the first time he asks where her husband worked before he was laid off and if he had any friends or family. She said he worked for SilverCo (a trading company), he was friends with his boss, and he was estranged from his family. Serack pointed out to me that the porn studio owned by the White Court had silver in its name and that might be another clue. Also, Victor settled on lust as his emotional focus for his spells. If his teacher was White Court, he or she would be biased towards teaching Victor to harness lust over the rest of his emootions.Hey, I made a similar thread not long ago! ;D
I suspect that it will eventually be revealed that Victor's teacher was either Lara or Thomas Raith, and I am personally leaning more towards Lara.Thomas doesn't have much magic, only few tricks. I doubt he could teach a sorcerer. Lara, on the other hand, is not a spellcaster, unless she deliberately hides it.
I can follow that chain of events. However, I would think it was Papa Raith that was teaching VS. i mean, after VS failed, he started his own coven of porn start sorceresses, epic btw. And we know from what Eb said, that Papa Raith knew Arianna as well. back when Maggie Sr was hatching and plotting.That would be my guess too.
Hey, I made a similar thread not long ago! ;D
To me Papa Raith would have gone for the kill with Harry, not try to get the ball rolling. I can see Papa teaching VS, but He would have started screaming "Kill him! Kill him! KILL HIM!!!" once Harry got involved because(click to show/hide)
I think that the quote from SF is a cluebat. Someone (or something) is preparing Harry for the trials ahead. Someone has invested several years into training Victor Sells (my guess is 4-6 years, because Monica explicitly states that he got his magic when their son was 4, and Harry guesstimated the children to be 10-13 and about 2 years younger,) but in all that time he/she neglected to inform Victor that there was a White Council that would frown on his actions if they became public. This tells me that Victor's teacher wanted him to get caught, and may even have been the one to plant the idea of going to Dresden in Monica's head.
Putting this together, we have Victor Sells, a potental mage who works for a possible White Court shell company and was taught.(click to show/hide)
I think that Victor was actually a White Court cats paw meant to draw Harry into play on a greater game,(click to show/hide)
Your spoiler tag is where I disagree. I think Victor was given an unused ritual to test whether it would work, and was otherwise totally disposable.
Speaking of which, during Storm Front, Harry was totally convinced that only a human practitioner could pull of that spell. I understand that he was very young and even as of GS, he does not have perfect knowledge of everything magical, but he was sure to the extent to limit the suspect pool to human beings. We never really found out what his reasons were for believing that.
Jenny Sells read the Arcane and knew about Harry. not farfetched to see Monica knowing her husband is in to the mystical reading through the Arcane and seeing articles about Harry also. she than builds enough courage to seek help from him.
Victor used more than lust he used anger also. he found out emotions could aid in the charging of spells. and it was hatred that was a main factor behind the RC curse as Harry pointed out. and the Beckitts had plenty of hatred to go around.
i don't see how a WCV got one of RCV's greatest weapons. the bloodline curse. Arriana wouldn't do that unless it was because she was sharing w/ a BCouncil ally.
Victor wasn't aimed at Harry he was aimed at Marcone. Marcone was stopping the RC from expanding into the Chicago underworld. and they were in a drug war.
when Harry starts to go after Victor the WCouncil sends in Morgan. not to find a warlock but specifically was sent after Harry. and we all know Peabody was messing w/ the Council for a long time.
as of SF Papa Raith had no idea about Harry being Mag LeFae's son. neither did Lara. and Thomas can barely use a tracking spell. also Papa Raith cannot feed to replenish his own energies. so why would he waste energy showing Victor how to use magic? my bet on who taught Victor is Cowl.
Harry would never even have been brought in if Monica's sister didn't threaten to go to the police and Marcone, thus forcing Victor's hand. so he killed her and Tommy Tom.
Of course Victor used more than just lust, my point was that he personally ended up focused on the lust as his goto emotion, and a WC teacher would have encouraged that decision.Choosing lust as his focus emotion speaks of House Raith in specific, not the White Court in general.
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True, I suspect that it is based on Harry's knowledge of the Sidhe. Harry assumes that since the Sidhe cannot kill a mortal unless he/she is involved with one of the courts, no creature from the nevernever can kill a mortal unless they enter into (or violate) the Accords.
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Your spoiler tag is where I disagree. I think Victor was given an unused ritual to test whether it would work, and was otherwise totally disposable.
Then I remembered that Jim has said that he really enjoyed writing Backup because it allowed him to go into the background of the, which was something he had really been wanting to do but couldn't do from Harry's perspective for obvious reasons. Unfortunately at the time that I heard him say that, I hadn't read Backup and had no idea what Jim was talking about. Even more unfortunate, I didn't record it, and apparently it was in an audio or video WoJ source that has yet to be transcribed because I can't find it using browser search methods.(click to show/hide)
The opening paragraph in Side Jobs for Backup is pretty much exactly that. Good memory. o_O I would type in the exact quote for you, but I'm too lazy to get up and get my Nook, but it can be found there.
I also got to bring some of the other background material of the Dresden Files story world into play. The Oblivion War was something I really loved, conceptually, but like the White Court its very nature prevented Dresden from getting involved without causing the entire thing to implode. This was an ideal place for that piece of universe background, and it made me feel all warm and fuzzy to finally get it out where the readers could see it, too.
In Changes,(click to show/hide)
Putting this together, we have Victor Sells, a potental mage who works for a possible White Court shell company and was taught. I think that Victor was actually a White Court cats paw meant to draw Harry into play on a greater game,(click to show/hide)I suspect that it will eventually be revealed that Victor's teacher was either Lara or Thomas Raith, and I am personally leaning more towards Lara.(click to show/hide)
Well, that's my theory. Is it crazy like afoxDuck or just plain crazy?
Possible, Odin never said, it was their spell. Just that they were working up some big juju, like in the old days. Does not mean it was there spell. But if you had a spell that could take out a bloodline, would you share it?
With somebody that hated the same guy I did? In a heartbeat. That way I don't have to worry about the 'police' coming after me. The white court isn't the only group that likes to work behind the scenes, and manipulate everybody into doing their dirty work for them.IN the time of SF, did the RC or the WC either know who Harry was, or have any reason to have him as an enemy?
IN the time of SF, did the RC or the WC either know who Harry was, or have any reason to have him as an enemy?
To me Papa Raith would have gone for the kill with Harry, not try to get the ball rolling. I can see Papa teaching VS, but He would have started screaming "Kill him! Kill him! KILL HIM!!!" once Harry got involved because(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
I was arguing more about the possibility that the spell didn't belong to the Red Court originally- that somebody may have given it to them to take down Harry/Eb.well don't forget that Victor needed something from the target... hair, nail clippings, blood, ect... the only reason those people were killed was because Monica's sister was threatening to go to the cops and Marcone. no idea if she told Tommy Tom so he had to got too. Linda was seen talking to Dresden and was planning on blackmailing them. mean while the rat Gimpy still hadn't gotten anything for you to use the spell on Victor with, no hair or nail clippings. until Dresden became a real pain by defeating your demon so you had Gimpy get some of Dresden's hair anyway possible. but yeah having the Beckitts in your group as a super charger to focus their hatred for Marcone seems like it was Marcone as your main target from the start.
Somebody didn't like somebody enough to give Victor the spell, though. My guess is it was probably Marcone, especially given how Fool Moon turned out. That may have been an example of good intentions slowly being corrupted- they started out trying to destroy a criminal, and then got so focused on destroying the people that stood in their way? More likely they were trying to remove the competition, and worked through intermediaries in case somebody got suspicious.
However it does not say that they CAN’T, just that they don’t and frown on their followers doing it. Self-imposed limitation, not necessarily a “law”.
Bob's eyelights narrowed until they almost went out, then brightened again after a moment as the skull began to speak. "A Sidhe Knight is a mortal," Bob said. "A champion of one of the Sidhe Courts. He gets powers in line with his Court, and he's the only one who is allowed to act in affairs not directly related to the Sidhe."
"Meaning?"
"Meaning that if one of the Queens wants an outsider dead, her Knight is the trigger man."
I frowned. "Hang on a minute. You mean that the queens can't personally gun down anyone who isn't in their Court?"
"Not unless the target does something stupid like make an open-ended bargain without even trying to trade a baby for-"
"Off topic, Bob. Do I or don't I have to worry about getting killed this time around?"
"Of course you do," Bob said in a cheerful tone. "It just means that the Queen isn't allowed to actually, personally end your life."
Except we know from the end of Changes that Martin, as a Red court half-vamp priest saw the ritual, or read about it, and used that as the basis for his scheme to double-bluff and destroy the RC. This doesn't mesh well with the idea that it's something that hadn't been tested until some no-name newb sorceror in Chicago used storm/sex power to run it.
Then I remembered that Jim has said that he really enjoyed writing Backup because it allowed him to go into the background of the, which was something he had really been wanting to do but couldn't do from Harry's perspective for obvious reasons.(click to show/hide)
(..)
So, we have WoJ that Jim wrote theinto Backup because they are an actual part of the DV that Harry is unaware of.(click to show/hide)
They had to sacrifice how many people, to get enough juice to kill three wizards, and maybe a few people on Susan's side of the tree?
I think that may well have been a misjudgement on their part, considering how many it eventually turned out that it was enough power to kill. An efficient spell being used by people who did not know what they were handling.My thought was that it was some of this ^ and some of the fact that the Reds were just having a good time sacrificing people and so went way overboard.
I think that may well have been a misjudgement on their part, considering how many it eventually turned out that it was enough power to kill. An efficient spell being used by people who did not know what they were handling.
Or ya know, they knew way more about the Blackstaff and how it interacts with it's user than we do*. Or, Eb even without the Blackstaff. I can very well see it taking a magical nuke to get at the WC wetworks man, not just a howitzer.
Why do we all assume the spell was the Red Court's, and that it was a prized possession they've used before? The impression I got was that the Red Court was given that spell, just like Victor Sells was, and that they were HORRIBLY BAD AT IT. They had to sacrifice how many people, to get enough juice to kill three wizards, and maybe a few people on Susan's side of the tree? Say Susan's parents and grandparents were both alive, and she had two siblings- that's twelve people; we'll say fifteen to be safe. Victor managed to kill two completely unrelated people at the same time without any sacrifices. I'm not saying that there's no problem to go from killing two unrelated people with one spell to killing fifteen related people, but to be fair Victor Sells wasn't really a wizard, but a gifted person that had learned a few tricks. The Red Court had multiple sorcerers working on the spell, had props to go along with and beef it up, and while they might have needed some sacrifices even still... I am not too impressed that the Red Court needed that much to pull it off (they were killing for hours while Dresden was on the way there). Granted, Victor had a storm to beef his spell, but they had a ley line running right underneath.
I don't think it was there spell; I think somebody as yet still unrevealed was manipulating Victor and the Red Court.
Victor used a ceremony and a storm to power a spell that killed someone across town. RC was preparing a spell that would take out someone on the otherside of the world, possibly behind wards or even in the NN. so yes the spell needed more power. most likely an increase for whatever factors added on. we don't know the exact mathmatics involved but i would say it was geared to go through anything to kill its target. so i don't think we can say they were horribly bad at it.
Why do we all assume the spell was the Red Court's, and that it was a prized possession they've used before? The impression I got was that the Red Court was given that spell, just like Victor Sells was, and that they were HORRIBLY BAD AT IT. They had to sacrifice how many people, to get enough juice to kill three wizards, and maybe a few people on Susan's side of the tree? Say Susan's parents and grandparents were both alive, and she had two siblings- that's twelve people; we'll say fifteen to be safe. Victor managed to kill two completely unrelated people at the same time without any sacrifices. I'm not saying that there's no problem to go from killing two unrelated people with one spell to killing fifteen related people, but to be fair Victor Sells wasn't really a wizard, but a gifted person that had learned a few tricks. The Red Court had multiple sorcerers working on the spell, had props to go along with and beef it up, and while they might have needed some sacrifices even still... I am not too impressed that the Red Court needed that much to pull it off (they were killing for hours while Dresden was on the way there). Granted, Victor had a storm to beef his spell, but they had a ley line running right underneath.
I don't think it was there spell; I think somebody as yet still unrevealed was manipulating Victor and the Red Court.
I am not inclined to see the second as implied in the first, because I can see Jim enjoying being able to write about Thomas being mindgamed in ways that can't be done from harry's POV.
Or ya know, they knew way more about the Blackstaff and how it interacts with it's user than we do*. Or, Eb even without the Blackstaff. I can very well see it taking a magical nuke to get at the WC wetworks man, not just a howitzer.Are we sure it was stolen? I remember Jim said it used to belong to someone else and they want it back, but that doesn't mean the White Council didn't win it in a poker game or something. *insert tongue-in-cheek smiley here* We don't know how the White Council acquired it.
*Don't forget it's stolen, and the real owner wants it back.
Are we sure it was stolen? I remember Jim said it used to belong to someone else and they want it back, but that doesn't mean the White Council didn't win it in a poker game or something. *insert tongue-in-cheek smiley here* We don't know how the White Council acquired it.
Q: Can you tell us a little more about the black staff?
A: The staff keeps Eb from going crazy, mostly. Also, the White Council stole it from someone. And they really want it back.
Booklover's notes of the WoJ on the subject say that it was stolenOK, so no poker winnings. When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. :)
OK, so no poker winnings. When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. :)
Are we sure it was stolen? I remember Jim said it used to belong to someone else and they want it back, but that doesn't mean the White Council didn't win it in a poker game or something. *insert tongue-in-cheek smiley here* We don't know how the White Council acquired it.I know Serack found the quote, but yes, I was sure anyway (I was there when he said it ;) ).
I know Serack found the quote, but yes, I was sure anyway (I was there when he said it ;) ).
I'm trying to plan on Kansas City, it is at least just 20 minutes away instead of 1 hour like last time. But I have to see about money, and babysitter and all that fun stuff. I should know more in a week. And if I can go, yeah, I have a little digital audio recorder and can tape it for you. :)