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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Conspiracy Theorist on March 15, 2021, 07:31:48 PM
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From the Falcon and the Winter Soldier Trailer, but so perfectly descriptive of Harry Dresden that the Scriptwriter must be a fan and read Battle Ground where Harry is “stripped” of the title Wizard, becoming a Sorceror in the eyes of the White Council. It was ever Harry’s destiny to be a hatless Wizard, despite the best efforts of various cover artists.
It is a terrible pity that Harry’s world was “blipped” so he is five years behind us, his response to this line would be priceless.
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Interesting idea, but I would point out that Sorcery has a specific connotation in the Dresden Files. Specifically, they're magic users who specialize in evocation magic - lots of direct attacks and damage, elemental powers, that sort of thing. And wizards as a whole look down on sorcerers because they are generally lacking in versatility or ability to do "Real" magics.
So even now he's a wizard by craft and nature, even if he's not officially recognized as one he still doesn't qualify as a Sorcerer.
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Harry looks down on Sorcerors in exactly the same way the White Council looks done on him. Poorly trained and unprofessional. To the White Council all wizard level talents not part of the Council are either Sorcerors or Warlocks. His unorthodox elevation to Wizard was on of the reasons for his removal.
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Harry looks down on Sorcerors in exactly the same way the White Council looks done on him. Poorly trained and unprofessional. To the White Council all wizard level talents not part of the Council are either Sorcerors or Warlocks. His unorthodox elevation to Wizard was on of the reasons for his removal.
I don't agree. First a sorcerer is someone who either lacks the training, or the power. It doesn't have to do with being professional. Some sorcerers have the juice but only able to really do one kind of magic. They just aren't wired to use a bunch of different types. I'd say it's like a bridge between being totally vanilla, and full wizard. Not really either.
Second Dresden wasn't kicked from the Council for not being a wizard. It's because of how he conducts himself. He was almost voted out when the war got started with the Reds. That had nothing to do with him being a wizard, but how he conducted himself. Same thing this time, but he got voted out. He was even told that one of the reasons was him killing mortals during the battle. Also he was cited by Carlos for being in cahoots with the White Court vampires.
Someone before all this got going was trying to push him out anyways. My guess is Mab. She's trying to isolate Dresden, so that he must rely on people outside of the Council. She also is pushing for him to marry a vampire, which I doubt the Council would have tolerated. So my guess is Mab was squeezing the Council
So no Dresden wasn't kicked for not being a wizard.
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I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think it is Mab that is doing it.
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Someone before all this got going was trying to push him out anyways. My guess is Mab. She's trying to isolate Dresden, so that he must rely on people outside of the Council. She also is pushing for him to marry a vampire, which I doubt the Council would have tolerated. So my guess is Mab was squeezing the Council
So no Dresden wasn't kicked for not being a wizard.
So my teenage grandson, he read it and we're sitting there talking and he goes "wait a second this feels like a brand new beginning" so I'm gonna ask you, is this the start of a new series?
Oh no not really, we're still doing the same stuff we're just running into the natural consequences of what happens when you get that many people angry at you that consistently. Harry is, he's the kind of guy who gets involved in things and ticks people off and there are consequences for your actions and I think as we move to head through the series I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm a big believer in facing and dealing with those consequences. So Dresden he's getting to find out more and more of the choices he's made are shaping his life and while I think the series has changed quite a bit since we got started it's essentially following this one character's journey and hopefully it all feels like "yep, that was gonna happen because of what he did, he pretty much had to choose the way he did but it's definitely gonna happen as a result".
https://www.spreaker.com/user/arroe/jim-butcher-releases-peace-talks-and-bat
Honestly, even without this quote I'd say it's more likely that him getting kicked was a case of Harry's chickens (shady behaviour and deals, anti-WC opinions, lack of connections outside of wardens/SC etc) coming home to roost even if someone else took advantage of Harry's work to get the vote started.
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The White Council i.e. the Merlin was looking for pretexts, so they dug up and threw every allegation they could think of at Harry. They weren’t subtle, but were quick to anger.
Perhaps if Harry had worn a hat and addressed the Council it would have mollified them. Knowing Harry though whilst the hat would have been conical, it would likely have a big ‘D’ on it, we all remember how Harry dressed going to a Vampire Masquerade. Either that or “WIZZARD” picked out in sequins.
Harry doesn’t react well to authority......
Authority doesn’t react well to Harry.
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I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think it is Mab that is doing it.
I agree with you. It appears to me that Mab is just taking advantage of the situation, though she probably saw it coming. Mab might not always have a firm grasp of mortal thinking and behavior, but she knows that Harry can grate on her nerves and has seen him have the same effect on the Senior Council. Plus, Mab probably knows some of the Senior Council members personally or knows their reputations, making a prediction that Harry would eventually get booted out predictable.
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We are in the Endgame according to Listen, very few Starborn left running around, so if the White Council haven’t got a handle on Harry as a member they have to use other means death threats etc they can’t levy on a member.
Besides it’s is simplistic to say Mab is taking advantage of the situation, Mab appears to be allied with Uriel, Hades and Odin. Harry is their Starborn, their Champion, and not just Mab’s. She’s middle management. Literally, I suspect it is The Mother’s who are actually part of the Cabal with Odin, Hades and Uriel.
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Actually what I take away from what Mab told Harry is in the end the Council will come begging to him.
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Actually what I take away from what Mab told Harry is in the end the Council will come begging to him.
I agree the Council needs a champion, and it almost has to be Harry, unless another wizard we haven't met yet is also Starborn, but I dought it. However, Harry might not want to help the Council.
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I agree the Council needs a champion, and it almost has to be Harry, unless another wizard we haven't met yet is also Starborn, but I dought it. However, Harry might not want to help the Council.
Harry might not want to help the Council, but given how much Harry wants and needs to Do the Right Thing, I can easily see him saying, "I'll do (x), but not for you. We can work together for this purpose, but we're not allies, and don't expect me to follow your orders ever again."
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Harry might not want to help the Council, but given how much Harry wants and needs to Do the Right Thing, I can easily see him saying, "I'll do (x), but not for you. We can work together for this purpose, but we're not allies, and don't expect me to follow your orders ever again."
Harry wants to help the Council but the Council he wants to aid is the ideal Council of his dreams that enforces the Laws of Magic and is a more proactive force for good. He'll support the current Council even with all the political bs because they still do more good than harm in his eyes and he hopes to make them better.
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Nah, Harry doesn't want to help the Council at all. The only times he ever has is because he was strong-armed by someone (Mab calling in a favour in SK, Luccio conscripting him in DB, Morgan going to him in TC). On the other hand, Harry keeps expecting them to do things like fight wars for him while he openly defies, mocks, and belittles them.
Then he gets self-righteous about how the Council distrust and dislike him and how dare they, he knows that he's a good guy, that should be good enough for them.
Harry is a hypocrite that keeps giving/showing more trust and openness to literal Monsters then he ever has to the Council, and then whines because they don't trust him.
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Nah, Harry doesn't want to help the Council at all. The only times he ever has is because he was strong-armed by someone (Mab calling in a favour in SK, Luccio conscripting him in DB, Morgan going to him in TC). On the other hand, Harry keeps expecting them to do things like fight wars for him while he openly defies, mocks, and belittles them.
Then he gets self-righteous about how the Council distrust and dislike him and how dare they, he knows that he's a good guy, that should be good enough for them.
Harry is a hypocrite that keeps giving/showing more trust and openness to literal Monsters then he ever has to the Council, and then whines because they don't trust him.
I think I've got Harry's point of view down but you have an excellent view of how others see his actions from a distance.