ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Grifter on July 15, 2020, 10:03:14 PM
-
Ferrovax sits opposite and equal to Vadderung.
Erlking sits opposite and equal to Kringle.
Hades (Greek Underworld God) sits opposite and equal to Odin (Norse Sky God).
Erlking's kingdom is underground. Hades' kingdom is underground. Ferrovax says in PT that to help, he'll lock down the underworld, preventing them from moving through or beneath the earth.
Is everyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
-
Brilliant. I would never have thought of adding Hades, but it seems very plausible.
-
The Erlking does not sit opposite and equal to Kringlespeculation., they are both leaders of the Wild Hunt, one is Wild (not Summer), the other is Winter.
Odin is more likely Hermes/Mercuryin the Roman/Greek pantheon rather than Hades based on scholarlyinterpretations.
Ferrovax has a good chance of being the Midgard Serpent, his control of the local geology is not something normally associated with dragons, but is associated with the Midgard Serpent, Odin’s grandson via Loki.
-
The Erlking does not sit opposite and equal to Kringlespeculation., they are both leaders of the Wild Hunt, one is Wild (not Summer), the other is Winter.
Odin is more likely Hermes/Mercuryin the Roman/Greek pantheon rather than Hades based on scholarlyinterpretations.
Ferrovax has a good chance of being the Midgard Serpent, his control of the local geology is not something normally associated with dragons, but is associated with the Midgard Serpent, Odin’s grandson via Loki.
I believe Erlking has been acknowledged a Summer King and Kringle is a Winter King. Neither really subjects themselves to either Sidhe Court, but they're each other's mirror.
I'm not sure why you say Odin is like Hermes/Mercury. Odin is like Zeus but a bigger deal. He's a Sky God like Zeus, and is the ruler of the Pantheon like Zeus.
I'm not saying the three are the same, but it seems possible.
-
Loki is Odin's bloodbrother, not son, everywhere except Marvel.
-
If Ferrovax is the Midgard Serpent, then note that he probably killed Odin's son Thor in the DV's version of Ragnarok. (Which didn't quite go down by the book, since Odin was supposed to get killed.)
That's a pretty good reason to hold a grudge.
-
If Ferrovax is the Midgard Serpent, then note that he probably killed Odin's son Thor in the DV's version of Ragnarok. (Which didn't quite go down by the book, since Odin was supposed to get killed.)
That's a pretty good reason to hold a grudge.
Seeing as Jörmungandr was supposed to die as well, I don't think we can go precisely on that. If Ferro is Jörmungandr, then Thor might still be around, at least as a mantle, if not a wrestler.
-
Nice theory, Grifter.
Personally I just think it was the two biggest guys in the room sizing each other up. Perhaps somewhat traditional enemies or something like it. Perhaps they were enemies in another pantheon.
I don't think he is the Erlking, though. The Erlking and Kringle seem to be much better friends. And Hades is the kind of being who doesn't show up as much in the mortal world. Which suggests he hasn't relinquished as much Power as Vadderung, but he also gets less involved. That was what the whole point Ethniu was making to Vadderung "Are you still involved in that Game" etc.
-
I like the theory. It'd satisfy my desire for more Ferrovax than we've gotten so far.
Also Vadderung tapped his staff three times, which I think si the official calling for a duel.
If Ferrovax is the Midgard Serpent, then note that he probably killed Odin's son Thor in the DV's version of Ragnarok. (Which didn't quite go down by the book, since Odin was supposed to get killed.)
That's a pretty good reason to hold a grudge.
WOJ confirmed Thor is still alive playing College Football.
-
I'm not sure why you say Odin is like Hermes/Mercury. Odin is like Zeus but a bigger deal. He's a Sky God like Zeus, and is the ruler of the Pantheon like Zeus.
Historically, the Romans identified their god Mercury with the Germanic Wotan/Woden/Odin. Jupiter (also identified with Zeus) was made equivalent to Thor.
This is preserved in the English weekday names, which are equivalents/translations of the Latin ones used by the Romans; "dies Mercurii" (day of Mercury) became Wednesday (Woden's day), while "dies Jovis" (day of Jupiter) became Thursday (Thor's day).
Yes, Odin is the ruler of the pantheon, but Thor is the thunder god so he got the identification with Jupiter. The Mercury/Odin connection is their roles as gods of knowledge/secret knowledge/magic.
Odin isn't really primarily a sky god anyway. Knowledge/wisdom, secrets/magic/writing/runes, war/battle fury/victory, and to some degree death ("god of the hanged" and collector of dead heroes in Valhalla) are more central.
-
The "Ferro" in Ferrovax does have earth-y connotations. The only other living Dragon is Pyrovax. Overall, it points to the big-D Dragons of having an elemental organization at some point.
My first guess at their animosity was some kind of rivalry with guarding the Gates. Ferrovax > Odin > Mab, but that's flimsy for support.
-
Historically, the Romans identified their god Mercury with the Germanic Wotan/Woden/Odin. Jupiter (also identified with Zeus) was made equivalent to Thor.
This is preserved in the English weekday names, which are equivalents/translations of the Latin ones used by the Romans; "dies Mercurii" (day of Mercury) became Wednesday (Woden's day), while "dies Jovis" (day of Jupiter) became Thursday (Thor's day).
Yes, Odin is the ruler of the pantheon, but Thor is the thunder god so he got the identification with Jupiter. The Mercury/Odin connection is their roles as gods of knowledge/secret knowledge/magic.
Odin isn't really primarily a sky god anyway. Knowledge/wisdom, secrets/magic/writing/runes, war/battle fury/victory, and to some degree death ("god of the hanged" and collector of dead heroes in Valhalla) are more central.
So for the sake of this parallel, Odin to Hades would be more of a death god opposition than sky versus underground.
So we've got Winter Hunt King versus Summer Hunt King, Norse warrior death god versus Greek all death god, and mercenary CEO versus lazy treasure dragon who seemed to be squared off to each other just like Summer and Winter were squared off.
-
I think it's pretty clear Jim is setting up Odin as a champion for mankind. Ferrovax seems to hold mankind in contempt. He refers to an undefined area, maybe just a very wealthy neighborhood, maybe all of Chicago, as a "pathetic gathering of monkey houses" in GP. I don't think that's all of their animosity, but I do think it's a big part of it. I think Hades and the Erlking like Harry too much to call him out for creeping around at the peace talks.
-
I think it's pretty clear Jim is setting up Odin as a champion for mankind. Ferrovax seems to hold mankind in contempt. He refers to an undefined area, maybe just a very wealthy neighborhood, maybe all of Chicago, as a "pathetic gathering of monkey houses" in GP. I don't think that's all of their animosity, but I do think it's a big part of it. I think Hades and the Erlking like Harry too much to call him out for creeping around at the peace talks.
I think we've seen enough of mantles to know that they can control personality. Vadderung isn't jolly, and I doubt Odin is/was. I could easily see Ferrovax having a different personality than another mantle he might possess.
Honestly, the biggest argument against it is Ferrovax being ancient enough to be the eldest Dragon but young enough to be a second generation Pantheon like an Olympian.
-
Vadderung does often have a certain lightheartedness to him. Calling him Jolly would be a stretch. Vadderung and Kringle are similar. I just think Ferro and Hades and Hearne are too different. I freely admit I could be wrong.
-
I saw it mostly thus; Ferrovax and Odin/Vadderung are the two powers in the accords who could take on Mab and beat her down, but choose to play around. All the other powers are weaker, or, in Summer's case, a somewhat equal counterbalance. As such, despite being very different, they're treated as equals.
The reasons why Ferrovax plays around are a bit fuzzy, since it's apparently not because he likes humans, but maybe he's been pushing humans to make robots? Iron, Ferrum, is a sign of human technology. And a weakness of the overtly magical Fae. Meanwhile Odin is all about the secret knowledge of things beyond technology; death, magic/foresight, people, that sort of thing.
-
Ferro and Odin were the toughest Accords members present besides Mab, but I don't necessarily think Odin is personally as powerful as Mab like Ferro. He's just extra tricky and knows everything.
-
We know Odin was also Beowulf, if Ferrovax was the Midgard Serpent, he was also likely Beowulf’s Dragon. I wouldn’t be surprised if Odin was every significant mythological dragonslayer except Michael Carpenter and Bard, which means he has also been St George, Guy of Warwick etc there is a list of Dragonslayers in Wikipedia. There’s more than you think. Every time Ferrovax gets frisky, out comes Odin in a new guise. The two are so evenly matched that neither can kill the other, but their battle is enough to send Ferrovax scuttling for cover, until he starts feeling frisky again.
It’s like Summer and Winter, Odin is a counterbalance to Ferrovax with the result that they have a peaceful stalemate most of the time, each looking to see if the other has weakened over time. The fact they may be related adds to the ongoing antagonism.