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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on June 06, 2018, 06:27:37 PM
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Alright this is kind of a long shot, I know. However Jim has said he likes to drop clues for people to find, and when they read a future book it makes sense. Harry noted that when Cowl was casting the ritual that his wrists were covered in scars. Well could this be a clue of his identity? Perhaps. In Fists full of warlocks when Kemmler made his escape from being hogtied, he left large amounts of flesh on the ropes. Could this have been what the scars on Cowl's wrists were caused by? Kemmler faked his death something like 7 times. Perhaps he faked it again.
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Wouldn't the other heirs know that Cowl was Kemmler?
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Wouldn't the other heirs know that Cowl was Kemmler?
Faking your death isn't very effective if others know about it. He showed disdain for the "kemmlerites". I think those others were just people vying for power, and not his allies. Kumori probably knows who he is, and the senior members of the Black Council. So probably a very small number of really big time players. I see him as Palpatine as a Senator kind of. Most bad guys that know of Cowl don't really know who he is, only that he's powerful, dangerous, and not to be questioned.
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In Cowl's words:
"I have nothing but disdain for the madman Kemmler," he spat.
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In Cowl's words:
For someone who has disdain for the "madman" he sure seems to be walking down the same path, going as far as trying to become a Dark God. Also he's a vicious killer. Bob took on his personality once in his control... Bob became cold, and willing to kill without hesitation.
this is just a theory, and by no means am I claiming that I know Cowl must be Kemmler. Just a thought that the scars on the wrists had some importance or they wouldn't have even been mentioned.
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Agreed that the scars are an important detail and probably a clue about Cowl's identity, I just don't think he's Kemmler. And recall the conversation he has with Harry, where he states, "I don't perceive myself to be mad." So he spits on Kemmler's name and calls him a madman, then later claims he doesn't think he, himself, is insane.
Only possibility I can see is Cowl not realizing that he was Kemmler; too many bodyswaps left his personality in flux until he became Cowl, and perceived Kemmler as a wholly different, and abhorrent, entity.
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Just a note: Bob took on the personality because Cowl made him remember all what he learned under Kemmler.
And why the hell would Kemmler need to steal a spirit of memory to remember his own writing? You don't forget something this vital, even when Grevane read it, he said something like: It's so simple!
Cowl is NOT Kemmler.
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Even on the generous assumption that none of his body swaps were after Fistful of Warlocks, that leaves a century and a quarter for wizard healing to do its work getting rid of scars. I don't see it as plausible.
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Even on the generous assumption that none of his body swaps were after Fistful of Warlocks, that leaves a century and a quarter for wizard healing to do its work getting rid of scars. I don't see it as plausible.
First do wizards lose their scars completely? Their healing is superior but not so sure that they don't keep some of the wound. Second if they do heal completely, then Cowl's wounds would be more recent... Burns perhaps? Justin maybe?
Cowl is NOT Kemmler.
Only Sith deal in absolutes!
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First do wizards lose their scars completely? Their healing is superior but not so sure that they don't keep some of the wound. Second if they do heal completely, then Cowl's wounds would be more recent... Burns perhaps? Justin maybe?
Only Sith deal in absolutes!
Yes, the marks disappear entirely with time. It's how Butters noticed wizard healing in the first place, one of Harry's bones healed, left a mark and then fixed the mark.
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First do wizards lose their scars completely? Their healing is superior but not so sure that they don't keep some of the wound. Second if they do heal completely, then Cowl's wounds would be more recent... Burns perhaps? Justin maybe?
Yeah. I don't buy Cowl being Justin who is also Kemmler, but I do mostly agree with the part about scars. Given time, the scars should fade thanks to the wizard healing, but as we saw and still see with Harry's hand, major scar damage can linger for a while.
Only Sith deal in absolutes!
Says the guy saying "only."
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Groin, I've had the same thought, but if you remember, now so are Harry's wrists covered in scars, from manacles, baseball bats, tiny hooks, ect. Granted Harry an Kemmler have the whole mirror opposite thing going, But the clues so put forth can still lead back to either.
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Says the guy saying "only."
Nah, I think the statement is perfectly accurate ;D
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Darth Sexious is my secret name :P
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First do wizards lose their scars completely?
I think the last description of Harry's burn scar was that it was significantly improved but still ugly enough to cover most of the time. But from Butters' description of the broken bones fusing back together, anything that's well on the way to healed after six or seven years where it shouldn't improve at all for a vanilla is probably going to get all the way better eventually.
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Says the guy saying "only."
I thought I was the only one who noticed the blind hypocrisy in that original line.
To you, Groinkick, I do think you're on to something. I'm going to do a full series reread after I finish my current run through Iron Druid (which is mostly out of duty; I can't leave a series unfinished when I start it), and I'm going to look closely for anyone who might have cause to be suddenly scarred.
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Says the guy saying "only."
"the guy" is Obi Wan Kenobi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgpytjlW5wU
I thought I was the only one who noticed the blind hypocrisy in that original line.
Lacking Star Wars fans the forum is.
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Could Cowl be someone else in Kemmler's body?
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Could Cowl be someone else in Kemmler's body?
Possible but unlikely I'd think.
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"the guy" is Obi Wan Kenobi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgpytjlW5wU
Well, in this case, "The guy" was you, who was quoting him.
Either way, he's talking about only someone doing something while, by using only, he's doing the same thing.
Also, "What I told you was the truth from a certain point of view" is another way of saying "I lied but don't like it when you call me out on my lies."
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Also, "What I told you was the truth from a certain point of view" is another way of saying "I lied but don't like it when you call me out on my lies."
Yeah, that was because of a retcon. Vader wasn't supposed to be Luke's dad in A New Hope; Lucas didn't figure that out until Empire. Funny enough, Mark Hammil didn't know what Vader was saying (since James Earl Jones only did voice work; it was a guy with a hilarious Scottish accent in the mask [fun source] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSm9DDxQv8E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSm9DDxQv8E)), and when actually filming the "I am your father" scene, the dialogue was totally different. Hammil didn't find out what was going on until he saw the voiced cut, and he was pissed, because his acting didn't fit the dialogue because of it.
Anyway, Lucas needed to explain the line from A New Hope, and in doing so, turned Obi Wan into a jerk and named a Trope about annoying metaphorical truths: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MetaphoricallyTrue?from=Main.FromACertainPointOfView (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MetaphoricallyTrue?from=Main.FromACertainPointOfView)
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groinkick
"the guy" is Obi Wan Kenobi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgpytjlW5wU
Lacking Star Wars fans the forum is.
Indeed. Obi Wan's statement was a perfect example of Oxymoronic Irony.
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groinkick
Indeed. Obi Wan's statement was a perfect example of Oxymoronic Irony.
Actually it wasn't. It's all in the language. If he had said "Only the Sith think in absolutes", or "Only the Sith believe in absolutes", or "Only the Sith speak in absolutes" then it would be very accurate. However he said "Only Sith deal in absolutes". He's speaking about external actions towards others. Anakin had just said "You are either with me, or against me" (Translation Join me or die). Another example was Darth Vader speaking about Luke "The boy will join us, or die", Palpatine to Luke "If you will not turn, you will be destroyed". These is the absolutes Obi Wan was talking about.
This was a great video explaining it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH10DQstVt4
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Agreed that the scars are an important detail and probably a clue about Cowl's identity, I just don't think he's Kemmler. And recall the conversation he has with Harry, where he states, "I don't perceive myself to be mad." So he spits on Kemmler's name and calls him a madman, then later claims he doesn't think he, himself, is insane.
Only possibility I can see is Cowl not realizing that he was Kemmler; too many bodyswaps left his personality in flux until he became Cowl, and perceived Kemmler as a wholly different, and abhorrent, entity.
That thought occurred to me, it might be Cowl's way of saying, "I'm not Kemmler anymore." Also, that would explain why Cowl needed Bob's help to do the Darkhallow, while Kemmler would presumably already know how to do it. If somebody mind-blasted Kemmler at some point, so big chunks of his personality changed and his knowledge base got scrambled, that could explain a few things. Also, like Bob, the real Kemmler might 'hiding' behind Cowl, waiting to come out again when the surface persona finishes its work.
What could mind-scramble him? Well, apparently the White Council really, really, really killed Kemmler in 1961, several times. Even if he could come back from that, it might explain why his mind is all out of whack.
I'm not saying I think it's true, but I can't rule it out.
As for scars and the magical healing, I can think of possibilities that could prevent it, or maybe make the scars follow him from body to body. Nothing definite, just possibilities.
I think Jamie and Adam would rate the 'Cowl=Kemmler' theory as 'possible but very improbable.'
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Actually it wasn't. It's all in the language. If he had said "Only the Sith think in absolutes", or "Only the Sith believe in absolutes", or "Only the Sith speak in absolutes" then it would be very accurate. However he said "Only Sith deal in absolutes". He's speaking about external actions towards others. Anakin had just said "You are either with me, or against me" (Translation Join me or die). Another example was Darth Vader speaking about Luke "The boy will join us, or die", Palpatine to Luke "If you will not turn, you will be destroyed". These is the absolutes Obi Wan was talking about.
This was a great video explaining it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH10DQstVt4
Does this same person also have a video that describes how the Kessel Run being done in 12 parsecs actually makes sense?
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Does this same person also have a video that describes how the Kessel Run being done in 12 parsecs actually makes sense?
My favorite explanation was that The Kessel Run tracks a line of Black Holes and other gravity wells, so the closer you are willing to fly to the very dangerous gravity wells, the shorter the overall trip is due to the relativistic space/time warping.
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My favorite explanation is that Han was feeding them a line of bullshit.
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My favorite explanation is that Han was feeding them a line of bullshit.
Mine too lol. But in reality someone just really didn't know the science behind the distance vs time wordings I think.
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Mine too lol. But in reality someone just really didn't know the science behind the distance vs time wordings I think.
You're probably right. Someone knew of a unit called parsec and thought it was uncommon enough to be used in a different science fiction world.
Problem is, they f*#@ed up.
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supposedly in the new Solo movie it's going to happen. The video I watched basically said what you all have said. Either Solo bullshitting to sound good, or using black holes.
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supposedly in the new Solo movie it's going to happen. The video I watched basically said what you all have said. Either Solo bullshitting to sound good, or using black holes.
I've seen Solo; the 12 parsecs thing does get explained in a satisfactory(and very cool) fashion. Though I did always like the old "black hole" explanation, too.
More on topic: I'd bet that Kemmler never faked his death at all. I bet he actually died, and managed to UN-die after the fact. Or at least made preparations while he was alive which allowed him to regain corporeal form after death. If anyone could figure out how to do that, it would be Kemmler. The Corpsetaker was working on doing that in Ghost Story and (s)he was just an apprentice of Kemmler's, likely less brilliant than the teacher. Hell, Harry managed to become solid and visible while he was dead, and he started his Afterlife fairly clueless about what life was like for ex-humans.
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Just curious isnt there a WOJ out there that says Kemmler is dead dead dead and not coming back?
Although it would be semi cool if cowl and kemmler were fragments of the same person
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Just curious isnt there a WOJ out there that says Kemmler is dead dead dead and not coming back?
Although it would be semi cool if cowl and kemmler were fragments of the same person
Nah, that WOJ was about Justin. Granted since there are theories that Justin, Kemmler, and Cowl are all the same person, it often comes up in that context. I think the WOJ on Kemmler was just that they were REAAAL careful that last time. But then, the counterargument is that if they Missed Bob, they could have Missed Kemmler in all sorts of ways (Corpsetaker-style body snatching being a popular one)
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Nah, that WOJ was about Justin. Granted since there are theories that Justin, Kemmler, and Cowl are all the same person, it often comes up in that context. I think the WOJ on Kemmler was just that they were REAAAL careful that last time. But then, the counterargument is that if they Missed Bob, they could have Missed Kemmler in all sorts of ways (Corpsetaker-style body snatching being a popular one)
Also what if Kemmler just pulled another Kemmler into this reality, and then stepped into that Kemmlers reality temporarily?
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Also what if Kemmler just pulled another Kemmler into this reality, and then stepped into that Kemmlers reality temporarily?
It is an entirely valid possibility
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Also what if Kemmler just pulled another Kemmler into this reality, and then stepped into that Kemmlers reality temporarily?
My going theory is Kemmler tried to summon his 7th version(having faked his death 6 times) and he was greater than the sum of his parts, ganked Kemmler and took Justin to hide in for the future... the WHY though...
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Nah, that WOJ was about Justin. Granted since there are theories that Justin, Kemmler, and Cowl are all the same person, it often comes up in that context. I think the WOJ on Kemmler was just that they were REAAAL careful that last time. But then, the counterargument is that if they Missed Bob, they could have Missed Kemmler in all sorts of ways (Corpsetaker-style body snatching being a popular one)
I think there were WOJ's about both of them. First that Justin was D.E.D., and then someone asked about Kemmler and got an answer of "at least as dead as Justin".
Sadlyh, nobody tried to follow that up with 'How dead is Simon, then?'.
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I think there were WOJ's about both of them. First that Justin was D.E.D., and then someone asked about Kemmler and got an answer of "at least as dead as Justin".
Sadlyh, nobody tried to follow that up with 'How dead is Simon, then?'.
Jim has since come out and admitted that he has dropped at least 2 pieces of misinformation! Justin being D E D, dead is most likely the one if I had to choose between Kemmler or Justin being alive.
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Jim has since come out and admitted that he has dropped at least 2 pieces of misinformation! Justin being D E D, dead is most likely the one if I had to choose between Kemmler or Justin being alive.
I always assumed one of them was that time he trolled us by telling us that we'd see who was getting Fidelacchius in TC, only for that statement to have technically been referring to him handing it over to Nic. And more recently there was an offhand mention of a Murphy family funeral that Im suspicious of.
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Hmm. Well about that Murphy Family Funeral, one of my ideas was that there will be another event like the Unseelie Incursion of 1994 where Milwaukee ends up vanishing for some time, say a day, and replaced with an untouched forest. I've wondered if there will be a Murphy family gathering when there will be another such event. Perhaps there will be some type event at Murphy's (whoever the Murphy family member is) funeral or wedding (as it is sometimes mentioned that weddings are funerals).
Weddings are basically funerals with cake.
Or, maybe someone is just getting married. :)
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Yeah, that was because of a retcon. Vader wasn't supposed to be Luke's dad in A New Hope; Lucas didn't figure that out until Empire. Funny enough, Mark Hammil didn't know what Vader was saying (since James Earl Jones only did voice work; it was a guy with a hilarious Scottish accent in the mask [fun source] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSm9DDxQv8E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSm9DDxQv8E)), and when actually filming the "I am your father" scene, the dialogue was totally different. Hammil didn't find out what was going on until he saw the voiced cut, and he was pissed, because his acting didn't fit the dialogue because of it.
Anyway, Lucas needed to explain the line from A New Hope, and in doing so, turned Obi Wan into a jerk and named a Trope about annoying metaphorical truths: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MetaphoricallyTrue?from=Main.FromACertainPointOfView (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MetaphoricallyTrue?from=Main.FromACertainPointOfView)
Hmm, I heard that Mark was having trouble getting the correct emotion in that scene with the lines being said by Prowse so Lucas pulled him aside and told him and him only what was actually going to be said. After that Mark got the take right and they went with that scene in the movie. I wonder which version is right?
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Hmm, I heard that Mark was having trouble getting the correct emotion in that scene with the lines being said by Prowse so Lucas pulled him aside and told him and him only what was actually going to be said. After that Mark got the take right and they went with that scene in the movie. I wonder which version is right?
Mark's talked about how he was the only one in on it actually.
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I think there were WOJ's about both of them. First that Justin was D.E.D., and then someone asked about Kemmler and got an answer of "at least as dead as Justin".
Of course, JB has also noted that death is fragile in the DV.
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Hmm. Well about that Murphy Family Funeral, one of my ideas was that there will be another event like the Unseelie Incursion of 1994 where Milwaukee ends up vanishing for some time, say a day, and replaced with an untouched forest. I've wondered if there will be a Murphy family gathering when there will be another such event. Perhaps there will be some type event at Murphy's (whoever the Murphy family member is) funeral or wedding (as it is sometimes mentioned that weddings are funerals).
Or, maybe someone is just getting married. :)
lol... This quote about a wedding is a funeral with a cake is what got me thinking about Murphy moving on (I thought someone was quoting Jim for some reason), and starting the other subject.... The wedding is hers, and the funeral was the love Harry had for her and his hope for them to be together.
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Mark's talked about how he was the only one in on it actually.
I've heard the exact opposite, that he didn't know and was pissed about it. Myeh, this is what you get when you rely on fickle statements.
As far as Justin's status goes, I've always wondered if "D-E-D" was an acronym.
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Yeah, no. Jim saying he is writing Murphy's funeral is WOJ. Us wondering what 'funeral' means is WAG. I was also just looking for quotes on the internet trying to capture the essence of wedding is a funeral idea.
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Yeah, no. Jim saying he is writing Murphy's funeral is WOJ. Us wondering what 'funeral' means is WAG. I was also just looking for quotes on the internet trying to capture the essence of wedding is a funeral idea.
He did later clarify that when he said that it was to mess with the fans, indicating that it was a joke.
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Yes. Sure, but he could still be trying to hide something he actually was writing or had planned. So it is a joke, but also a 'subconscious' hint of some sort at something to come. That is how I'm going to take it.
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Yes. Sure, but he could still be trying to hide something he actually was writing or had planned. So it is a joke, but also a 'subconscious' hint of some sort at something to come. That is how I'm going to take it.
I take it as he shouldn't have said it and backpaddled afters. I have reason to believe Murphy dies quite soon, though may not stay that way.
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Maybe Murphy's funeral for her mother?
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There was a WOJ that "we would see her again." with him smiling. It was in a video in reply to us seeing Mother Murphy.
I've had a theory that she will end up tied in with the Mothers at some point. Though I also have the theory that Mrs. Spunklecrief is the abdicated Mother Summer. The WOJ's on Mrs. S is that she finally retired, sold the apartments for a good deal, and basically got her ideal retirement in Florida. It was something to that effect. That sounds pretty summery to me. That of course doesn't mean she was a Mother Summer, but it got me thinking about things. I like to view her as keeping kind eye on the next Starborn she foresaw prior to her abdication.
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Maybe Murphy's funeral for her mother?
I assumed either this or a flashback to Papa Murphy's.
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I assumed either this or a flashback to Papa Murphy's.
maybe Sister-Spice dies in the sort of Case that gets kicked over to SI?
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maybe Sister-Spice dies in the sort of Case that gets kicked over to SI?
That would be one way to massively tear up Murphy. Her sister dies in an SI case that she is not able to look into in any official capacity. Plus all the unresolved anger/tension between the two of them.
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That would be one way to massively tear up Murphy. Her sister dies in an SI case that she is not able to look into in any official capacity. Plus all the unresolved anger/tension between the two of them.
All that unresolved BS, piled on top of the likely interactions with her ex-husband/Ex-Brother-in-Law who would apparently defaults to By-the-book jerk as often as not, and who would likely react in a more volatile than average manner if Murphy, who by many public indications has quit the police for to go work for a Mobster, tries to stick her nose in an investigation as personally important to him as that.
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maybe Sister-Spice dies in the sort of Case that gets kicked over to SI?
Maybe, but to pull a technicality, her last name likely wouldn't be "Murphy" anymore (yes, I know it's the 21st century, but I doubt Murphy's sister wouldn't love the opportunity to tweak Karrin's nose with the name change).
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All that unresolved BS, piled on top of the likely interactions with her ex-husband/Ex-Brother-in-Law who would apparently defaults to By-the-book jerk as often as not, and who would likely react in a more volatile than average manner if Murphy, who by many public indications has quit the police for to go work for a Mobster, tries to stick her nose in an investigation as personally important to him as that.
It's about time Harry showed some non-clued cop figures what's actually going on by way of convincing them to at least stop getting in the way if they aren't going to help. Having to stop Rick from bungling a case related to Murphy's family would be a pretty good reason for a non-violent but also undeniable demonstration. Maybe lock him in ice from the shoulders down until Karrin can tell him what's actually what.
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All that unresolved BS, piled on top of the likely interactions with her ex-husband/Ex-Brother-in-Law who would apparently defaults to By-the-book jerk as often as not, and who would likely react in a more volatile than average manner if Murphy, who by many public indications has quit the police for to go work for a Mobster, tries to stick her nose in an investigation as personally important to him as that.
Sounds like you are giving Butcher ideas on how to be evil.
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Maybe, but to pull a technicality, her last name likely wouldn't be "Murphy" anymore (yes, I know it's the 21st century, but I doubt Murphy's sister wouldn't love the opportunity to tweak Karrin's nose with the name change).
Eh, it could go either way but I dont think it would be about tweaking Karin on it; rather I think her mom's opinion would play a bigger role in it. On the one hand it's traditional and big Catholic families tend to be traditional. On the other hand, this is a guy that has tried twice now to marry into this particular Law Enforcement family so he might entirely understand it if the Murphy's just prefer to keep their Name (given the talk about careers getting int he way, I suspect Officer/Sgt./Lt. Murphy did not want her career to have to deal with the multiple name-changes.
Sounds like you are giving Butcher ideas on how to be evil.
I very much doubt he needs help from me :P