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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Serack on July 05, 2011, 01:39:18 PM
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Time for another one of my lists. This one is of all the times Harry has had a convo with inside his head, or heard a disembodied voice. I'll proally end up adding book/chapter notations to this.
Edit: Here's part of the motivation for this list, copied from reply #6.
I'm thinking along the lines of trying to see how crouded Harry's head is, either with presences, or the footprints of presences. One of the points of this is that if he is now dead, maybe if some of these presences were actually persistent, they can manifest to him in the spirit realm.
Telepathic communication: (these are less significant to me, but fit with the theme, so I'll get em out of the way first)
Elaine, WK
Merlin, TC
Ebenezer, Changes (2 way)
Disembodied Voices, and Presences
Female hand holder, SF
Lasciel, DM
Lasciel's Shadow, PG, WK
Unknown Female Voice in dream, DM
Quintus Cassius, Changes
The VoiceTM, Changes
Manifested presences within a dream
Harry's Id, FM? and DB
Kravos' Ghost, GP
Harry's Ghost GP
Malcom Dresden, DB
Lasciel, DM
Other significant manifestations
HHWB's shadow manifest to 3eye Junkie, SF
Maggie showed up within the soulgaze with Thomas (both sides), BR
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Harry might have Schizophrenia ???
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So Harry's head is a little crouded and or has been visited a lot.
I think the most significant here are Harry's parents, the unidentified female voices/hand, and the last thing Harry's Id commented in the convo in FM.
I just remembered 2 more things to add to the list, but I'd like to get input from others before I do any additions.
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what about the woman from his dreams in DM. he didn't recognize her bur she was familiar. almost the same description of the woman's touch from SF.
another though it was only one was. in SK the Mother's read his thoughts.
Harry also used his connection to Susan to project thoughts to her in Changes.
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He has had a history of headaches and loss of control. Is it possible that Justin may have had more effect than previously thought? Maybe it's just harrys way of dealing with massive brain intrusion
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Harry might have Schizophrenia ???
More like split personality ;) which would nicely explain his headaches and memory loss.
He has had a history of headaches and loss of control. Is it possible that Justin may have had more effect than previously thought? Maybe it's just harrys way of dealing with massive brain intrusion
Same as above. He's not a raving lunatic, but not the most sane person ever.
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I liked that quote from Harry in GS: "I've met my subconscious and he's not that sick."
I'm not sure where you want to go with this list though. If you're looking for evidence of Harry having split personalities, you'd better look for irrational, unexplained acts on his part. Most of those don't involve voices. Better look at the times when Harry's left hand moves on its own and such.
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I liked that quote from Harry in GS: "I've met my subconscious and he's not that sick."
I'm not sure where you want to go with this list though. If you're looking for evidence of Harry having split personalities, you'd better look for irrational, unexplained acts on his part. Most of those don't involve voices. Better look at the times when Harry's left hand moves on its own and such.
Me, I'm thinking along the lines of trying to see how crouded Harry's head is, either with presences, or the footprints of presences. One of the points of this is that if he is now dead, maybe if some of these presences were actually persistent, they can manifest to him in the spirit realm.
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Me, I'm thinking along the lines of trying to see how crouded Harry's head is, either with presences, or the footprints of presences. One of the points of this is that if he is now dead, maybe if some of these presences were actually persistent, they can manifest to him in the spirit realm.
oooohhh me likey. if its was a spiritual type of connection now that he is on the other side it might be easier to connect with him. very interesting idea. that spectral woman if it is sometype of ghost or spirit link is a strong frontrunner than imho.
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Do you want to include the times his head has been effed with? Because then you might add
Mab - SMF
Molly-SMF
these might have left a strong enough impression that they could manifest
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Me, I'm thinking along the lines of trying to see how crowded Harry's head is, either with presences, or the footprints of presences. One of the points of this is that if he is now dead, maybe if some of these presences were actually persistent, they can manifest to him in the spirit realm.
Hmm, I don't know. We're talking about things that resided within Harry's subconscious, but now that Harry is dead and reduced to pure spirit, one could argue that he doesn't *have* a subconscious any more. I don't see how any such presences could persist. Take Lash for instance, she was squatting in an unused part of his brain, but Harry left said brain behind. Even if some part of her was left, I doubt she could parasite Harry's very soul.
On the other hand all the ghostly voices and apparitions that Harry experienced, these came from, well, ghosts. He's going to have his chance to meet some of those.
One big question for me is what's up with his dad: He was able to speak to Harry in a dream, does that mean he's still hanging around like Carmichael and Capt. J in Chicagotory? Or is he a regular ghost? Or did he actually move on beyond Chigagotory, but get a special dispensation to have that chat with Harry?
For Maggie Sr, you may be on to something. She was somehow able to inscribe messages into Thomas and Harry's very souls, as well as set them up to trigger with a specific event. However these are more like recorded message, there isn't a little Maggie living in the dark corners of Harry's brain. The other two interventions that we may assume are from Maggie, the hand in Storm Front or the "hush now" in Changes, may also be recordings or some sort, the first triggered to activate when Harry is facing temptation from the Dark Side, or they may be Maggie's actual spirit, or someone/something else entirely.
Do you want to include the times his head has been effed with? Because then you might add
Mab - SMF
Molly-SMF
these might have left a strong enough impression that they could manifest
For those, I think the opposite may be true: Just as Harry lost all the scars on his new ectoplasm body, the wounds he's received to his mind might be similarly healed.
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...Were there headaches outside of Small Favor and Turn Coat? They should probably be recorded.
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Me, I'm thinking along the lines of trying to see how crouded Harry's head is, either with presences, or the footprints of presences. One of the points of this is that if he is now dead, maybe if some of these presences were actually persistent, they can manifest to him in the spirit realm.
With the unrecognized woman's voice, I think you may be onto something. The female presence in SF, the woman telling him he needed to sleep and redirecting his dreams in DM, and the last voice he heard in Changes-- I'd bet those are all the same woman. And since we already know Maggie LeFay left something of herself within both Harry and Thomas, I'm guessing it's her.
Maybe she did something weird with her soul when she died, or before she died, so it never moved on as souls are supposed to. For that matter, maybe she sold her soul to Lea in exchange for Lea's godmother-ship of Harry. I know I've argued in the past that Maggie bargained away her love, but maybe it was her soul that she bargained away instead, and the love came with it. If so, maybe she had some unusual qualifications on how Lea could use her soul once she had it, and those qualifications are why Harry sometimes seems to hear her voice(I'm just guessing that the voice belongs to his mother).
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Also, not sure if this belongs here or not, but this thread is what made me think of it: do you think it's possible that in the Nevernever, Harry would be perceived by everyone, and able to interact with everything in much the same way he could when he had a body? It's called the spirit world, after all. Presumably because a lot of spirits live there. Maybe once he's there, he'll seem almost solid, almost like his old self. At least in his mind, and one's mind apparently has a strong influence on things over there.
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Also, not sure if this belongs here or not, but this thread is what made me think of it: do you think it's possible that in the Nevernever, Harry would be perceived by everyone, and able to interact with everything in much the same way he could when he had a body? It's called the spirit world, after all. Presumably because a lot of spirits live there. Maybe once he's there, he'll seem almost solid, almost like his old self. At least in his mind, and one's mind apparently has a strong influence on things over there.
Wasn't Chicagatory in the NN, though? Agatha Hagglethorn was material in the Nevernever, so I think it's entirely possible.
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[ SPOILERS for GS Sample Chapters below! ]
Wasn't Chicagatory in the NN, though? Agatha Hagglethorn was material in the Nevernever, so I think it's entirely possible.
It seemed to me that the point of Chicagatory was that you could never know for certain where it was in the grand scheme of things. That's why Carmichael talked about all of those betweens. Maybe it was in some far region of the Nevernever; maybe it was somewhere else, held apart from Heaven, Earth, and the Nevernever. I think we have to take Harry's guesses about every type of afterlife being within the Nevernever with a grain of salt. He may be right, but then again, he may not.
Either way, though, he seemed pretty solid in Chicagatory. It was only after he supposedly returned to Earth that he started walking through solid objects.