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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Rel Fexive on April 19, 2010, 06:31:04 PM

Title: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Rel Fexive on April 19, 2010, 06:31:04 PM
I'm not convinced this is the best place for this, but...

What powers would be work best for an Item Of Power whose sole purpose is to block spells - any spell - without needing a spell-caster to use it?  And when I say "block" I mean "hold it between you and the incoming magic and the spell is blocked" - though not, I imagine, with absolute certainty of success.  To be honest, I'm not entirely certain such an item is possible in the setting...
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: KnightFerrous on April 19, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
Physical Immunity would work, just have the Catch be Non-magical attacks.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: iago on April 19, 2010, 06:42:08 PM
I find this idea a bit Taltos-ish -- is the inspiration "spell-eater" here?

First off we need to think about your description. Blocking a spell is not functionally different from dodging the spell -- you're looking to cause Evocation attacks to *miss*, because there's not really any sort of "hold between me and the spell" going on with Thaumaturgy.  Many evocation attacks are a case of point and shoot, aimed by Discipline, dodged by Athletics.  Other spells will be aimed at the mind, defended by an appropriate skill.  If the skill rolls well enough -- better than the Discipline roll made to aim the spell at the target -- then the spell does not connect.  It seems reasonable this item might also absorb some spell-energies even if the spell *hits*.

What you may want here is a combination of effects:

- The Item of Power rebate (which you can figure out as per the rules)
- A spell-defense power that lets you roll, say, Weapons as the skill of defense against magical attacks (stunt; new trapping; -1 refresh), probably at a +2 (stunt; -1 refresh).
- A little bit of armor that only works against magical effects.  "Only against magical effects" feels narrowed enough there, so I'd say -1 refresh for every Armor:1 you wanna get, which I'd cap at 3 since Armor:3 is what you get for Mythic Toughness but we're skipping things like extra stress boxes here.   Or maybe it's better to say "take a Toughness power, and give it The Catch: Only vs. Magic" and let you get all those benefits.

So, -2, reduced further by whatever your "when it hits" ability of choice is, then mitigated by the Item of Power rebate.

Not so hard.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: iago on April 19, 2010, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: KnightFerrous on April 19, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
Physical Immunity would work, just have the Catch be Non-magical attacks.

Yep, that's a direction you can go, but I was also thinking about the whole "needs to deliberately interpose the object" bit.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: luminos on April 19, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
Immunity would probably work great for that.  Lets see, -8 for immunity, +2 or 3 for the catch, and +2 for the item of power discount, and you have some really cheap immunity to magic.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: iago on April 19, 2010, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: luminos on April 19, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
Immunity would probably work great for that.  Lets see, -8 for immunity, +2 or 3 for the catch, and +2 for the item of power discount, and you have some really cheap immunity to magic.

... that EVERYONE will want to steal. :)
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: luminos on April 19, 2010, 06:47:46 PM
Quote from: iago on April 19, 2010, 06:46:49 PM
... that EVERYONE will want to steal. :)

yeah, no kidding.  Hello, plot hook.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: KnightFerrous on April 19, 2010, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: iago on April 19, 2010, 06:46:49 PM
... that EVERYONE will want to steal. :)

That has "be careful what you wish for" written alll over it
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: KnightFerrous on April 19, 2010, 06:55:46 PM
Quote from: luminos on April 19, 2010, 06:47:46 PM
yeah, no kidding.  Hello, plot hook.

I was just about to comment on how he should internalize it, take the extra refresh cost and avoid that trouble. when it occured to me that a sufficiently big enough fae would probably just carry him into battle as a shield...
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Korwin on April 19, 2010, 06:59:22 PM
Quote from: luminos on April 19, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
Immunity would probably work great for that.  Lets see, -8 for immunity, +2 or 3 for the catch, and +2 for the item of power discount, and you have some really cheap immunity to magic.

Should'nt that be cheaper?
(+2 from only protecting against one thing, +2 because "not magic" is common, +1 because it probably not be something that needed to be found out through experience = +5)
With Item of Power +6 or +7...

Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Rel Fexive on April 19, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: iago on April 19, 2010, 06:42:08 PM
I find this idea a bit Taltos-ish -- is the inspiration "spell-eater" here?

Correct!  ;D

In those books, the item in question (initially, at least) is a length of chain that is spun between wielder and foes to block spells.  Most of the time they would be spells of a type of evocation so yes, just blocking those makes sense.  Of course, in the books the chain always works perfectly (through the power of Plot Device) but we can't have that in a game, can we? ;)

I like the skill substitution/bonus idea and Weapons makes the most sense, unless the Item was, say, golden bracelets crossed in front of you ;) which would probably use Fists.  Adding on a bit of Armor too for added measure for last resort backup is a great idea.  I'll also take a look at the Toughness powers too, see if that works.

Nice, thanks :)

Immunity would be good for a protective amulet/tattoo/crown kind of deal, I think.  A good goal for a adventure or villain, perhaps?
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: iago on April 19, 2010, 07:05:09 PM
Quote from: Rel Fexive on April 19, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
Immunity would be good for a protective amulet/tattoo/crown kind of deal, I think.  A good goal for a adventure or villain, perhaps?

Yeah, a few villains out there have Immunity to Magic (netting refresh of -3 thanks to a +5 catch -- see the Scarecrow Fetch on OW43). I'd be very careful about allowing Immunities for PCs, myself.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: luminos on April 19, 2010, 07:36:38 PM
Mortal magic would be something specific.  All magic is very broad and would only get a +1, but protection from magic is way more powerful than physical immunity to it, so I'd give it +0 in that respect, so I'd make the catch +2 because everyone has access to non-magical force, and +1 if I was feeling generous to represent how easy it would be to discover the catch.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Biff Dyskolos on April 19, 2010, 10:15:48 PM
This topic has got me thinking about something related and possible off-topic but...

What about when Harry redirected
(click to show/hide)
?

He improved it so I assume it was an evocation. A block would have protected the target but wouldn't redirect the spell. It's more like a counterspell used to catch the spell's energy, instead of countering it, and then recasting the original spell. An evocation using another spell as the energy source instead of gathering power yourself? And you would not need to have any knowledge of the "element" use for the original spell.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: KOFFEYKID on April 19, 2010, 10:29:31 PM
Such an item is already statted, take a look at Our World page 210, Madrigal Raith.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Rel Fexive on April 19, 2010, 10:59:23 PM
Oh yeah. I've not gotten to Our World yet, and I'd forgotten about those sleeve-things.  So, there's definitely a precedence for such things.  Cool.


On the Spellbreaker front, I'm thinking of something that's a fine golden chain about a foot or two long and going with Fred's ideas of: swung with Weapons to defend against Evocation attacks (stunt: new trapping, -1) at +2 (stunt: -1) and dissipates what gets through a bit with Armor:2 (-2).  It can be worn around a wrist (or maybe waist if longer) and is more concealable than a sword so it gets a +1 discount for a total of 3 refresh.  If Armor:2 seems too much, knock it down by one.


I only started pondering this when I thought of a Thaumaturgy-only 'sorcerer' character while reading too much Brust, who calls his magic Witchcraft and calls himself a witch.  He has a high concept of "Neighbourhood Witch" (as a play on neighbourhood watch, as he tasks himself to defend an area of the city against supernatural threats) and one of his aspects is Faux Wiccan, because he really isn't one.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: InvisibleHoser on August 03, 2010, 01:04:20 AM
I've been looking to create a similar item as an enchanted item.
A sword that allows the wielder to use weapons skill to parry magical attacks, grants a +2 to the roll, and would be usable 5 times per session.
My calculations are: 1 slot for the spell parry ability, 1 slot for +2 to that ability, and 2 slots for 4 additional uses per session..

Is this a legitimate use of the enchanted items rules? Or should this kind of effect be limited to the "Item of Power"?
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Belial666 on August 03, 2010, 01:16:46 AM
The smart spellcaster who fights fey, werewolves and magic-immune people has several iron half-pound spheres and several silver half-pound spheres with him most of the time.

Fey, magic-immune enemy or magic-immune fey? Instead of blasting directly, telekinetically throw an iron sphere at half the speed of sound.
Were, magic-immune enemy or magic-immune were? Instead of blasting directly, telekinetically throw a silver sphere at half the speed of sound.


Against a prepared spellcaster, magic immunity isn't that useful.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: vultur on August 03, 2010, 04:32:16 AM
Lord Talos in Our World has a -2 refresh coat of spell-repelling mail (-8 Physical Immunity, +5 Catch: Only against magic, +1 Item of Power bonus).
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: blues.soldier on August 04, 2010, 01:50:52 AM
You could easily build an entire campaign around an item like this-- all the factions that want to get ahold of it and what they want to do when they get it.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Synthesse on August 06, 2010, 08:39:53 AM
Does anyone know how spell reflection, rather than spell blocking would work? Would you use mimic points or maybe something similar?
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Tsunami on August 06, 2010, 08:12:16 PM
I just had an idea how reflecting spells could actually work.

You could make a power that works somewhat like the riposte stunt for weapons.

Spell Mirror (-1)
Requires evocation or channeling of one kind or another.
Description: You can use your magical blocks to redirect spells sent at you.
Effects
Spell reflection
On a successful spell defense with a magical block, you can sacrifice your next action to reflect the attacking spell back onto the attacker. Turning the block strength into the control roll to target the reflection. It can be defended against normally.
Angling the Mirror (-1) you can not only reflect the spell back to the caster, you can also choose to redirect the spell onto a target of your choice.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Crion on August 06, 2010, 08:26:11 PM
Just a random thought to toss in: what about single/limited use items to "block" spells, as seen in the short story "The Warrior"; how would those be factored in?

As we saw it,
(click to show/hide)
Would something like this be considered a potion (and would you consider one-shot talismans like this as potions?), or as an enchanted item?

Just curious now that InvisibleHoser mentioned enchanted items.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Deadmanwalking on August 06, 2010, 09:41:19 PM
Crion: That's a textbook Potion example. They don't need to be actual 'potions' per se, check out the hankie full of sunshine.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: fatty on August 07, 2010, 07:25:59 AM
Looking at Lord Talos's armour it is only versus mortal magic. I think you would need to drop the cost of the rebate for all magic. -3 or -4
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Crion on August 09, 2010, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: Deadmanwalking on August 06, 2010, 09:41:19 PM
Crion: That's a textbook Potion example. They don't need to be actual 'potions' per se, check out the hankie full of sunshine.

Just wanted to be sure. I know potions tend to be one-shot items, but this item in particular seemed a bit powerful, which is why I referenced it for clarification.

Thanks Deadmanwalking.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: blues.soldier on August 29, 2010, 10:43:10 PM
Potions can be truly epically powerful, depending on who makes them and how many Item Slots they choose to devote to those potions. I'm sure there are some really broken builds revolving around alchemists here on the boards somewhere, and the concept works for an in-game concept as well; the idea of a bookish, frail alchemist in his tower doing nothing but brewing potions of amazing power is pretty much a staple of the genre.
Title: Re: Spell-Blocker Item of Power
Post by: Belial666 on August 29, 2010, 11:33:47 PM
Well, a submerged alchemist with Lore 5, Thaumaturgy, a Book or Shadows IoP that has potion and item recipes handed down through generations (effectively a +5 power focus for crafting plus 2 extra potion slots for -3 refresh and +2 rebate), another 5 refinement to get a +5 crafting frequency through foci/specialization and another 16 slots has;

Potion/Item power at +10
Potion/Item frequency at 6
18 item or potion slots
Thaumaturgy rituals