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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Dina on October 24, 2020, 10:55:45 PM
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Anyone else felt that in BG Vadderung purposedly stopped the conversation before the Erkling said something that he did not want Harry to know? Something about Maggie, of course.
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Anyone else felt that in BG Vadderung purposedly stopped the conversation before the Erkling said something that he did not want Harry to know? Something about Maggie, of course.
I really need to reread Battle Ground.
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Can you tell that I already began? :P
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I'm still suspicious of Erlking, in the sense that I think he's got a second identity we've seen.
I'm not sure what trouble Margaret would have caused the Erlking. It might be interesting to consider what she would have been doing that would impact him.
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And perhaps he was going to comment something relevant to the deal Margaret did with Lea.
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I'm still suspicious of Erlking, in the sense that I think he's got a second identity we've seen.
I'm not sure what trouble Margaret would have caused the Erlking. It might be interesting to consider what she would have been doing that would impact him.
The erlking is one of the suspects for the wolf belts.
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I'm still suspicious of Erlking, in the sense that I think he's got a second identity we've seen.
I'm not sure what trouble Margaret would have caused the Erlking. It might be interesting to consider what she would have been doing that would impact him.
you know who'd be funny? Eldest Gruff. He was noticably absent to me. I figured since Titania refused to show she'd send him as her... Well basically as her Leah. But if he was more obligated as a member of her accords then he'd have to wear that mask. He's a hunter but won't attend the wild hunt? Maybe EK takes precedence there too? It seems to appear as his main power source in DB. That... That could be a joke told to Harry for him to figure out actually. Mentioning both of them in the same attendence. I wouldn't even put it past Kringle to invite him knowing he'd have to find a way to politely decline as some kinda fae game.
*Am I right in thinking they've never appeared on screen together?
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you know who'd be funny? Eldest Gruff. He was noticably absent to me. I figured since Titania refused to show she'd send him as her... Well basically as her Leah. But if he was more obligated as a member of her accords then he'd have to wear that mask. He's a hunter but won't attend the wild hunt? Maybe EK takes precedence there too? It seems to appear as his main power source in DB. That... That could be a joke told to Harry for him to figure out actually. Mentioning both of them in the same attendence. I wouldn't even put it past Kringle to invite him knowing he'd have to find a way to politely decline as some kinda fae game.
*Am I right in thinking they've never appeared on screen together?
Eldy Gru and Erl both attended Harry's birthday party at Arctis Tor, didn't they? Erl invited him hunting, if I recall.
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Eldy Gru and Erl both attended Harry's birthday party at Arctis Tor, didn't they? Erl invited him hunting, if I recall.
ahh.. I don't recall lol. I Thought only Gruff was there? And Kringle talked about EK? I'm going to have to reread that.. unless someone has their book handy. I was thinking just now that EG sent EKs regards to Harry, which would be another irony.. gonna go find my book lol.
*Nope, your right, they were both there... Mmm,
The only other person I thought of for him was his possible original person being Arthur. isn't there a Woj he used to be human? Lol, and EG I think is Ole billy goat shakespeare. It would explain why he was able to make Titania see the purpose in her tragedy, it's a particular specialty. But someone else whose been onscreen? Mmm...
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Eldest Gruff was being diplomatic, he has defeated three Senior Council members but was stalemated by Harry and a doughnut.
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Why was the Erl King declared a Vassal of Winter? He was Wild Fae in the other books.
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I'm still suspicious of Erlking, in the sense that I think he's got a second identity we've seen.
I'm not sure what trouble Margaret would have caused the Erlking. It might be interesting to consider what she would have been doing that would impact him.
The Erlking did say that Harry being LeFay's child made Harry's "visit" to his domain make more sense.
Said visit was in Changes when Harry & Susan were being chased by the Ebs, their Red Court Vampire entourage, and the Ik'k'oux.
Margaret Lefay likely dropped in unexpectedly a few times with some antagonistic +1's.
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The Erlking did say that Harry being LeFay's child made Harry's "visit" to his domain make more sense.
Said visit was in Changes when Harry & Susan were being chased by the Ebs, their Red Court Vampire entourage, and the Ik'k'oux.
Margaret Lefay likely dropped in unexpectedly a few times with some antagonistic +1's.
Sure, but the link to his domain in Chicago is the fbi building. It's probably similar elsewhere, with a focus on links to places involving hunting.
What business would Margaret have had in such places? Seeing as she was a woman on the run from one group or another for most of her adult life?
I'm not saying it's impossible, in just curious what she was up to.
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Sure, but the link to his domain in Chicago is the fbi building. It's probably similar elsewhere, with a focus on links to places involving hunting.
What business would Margaret have had in such places? Seeing as she was a woman on the run from one group or another for most of her adult life?
I'm not saying it's impossible, in just curious what she was up to.
She was not on the run her whole life. The difficulty with the glimpses of Margaret’s life we get is that they are difficult to place chronologically.
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Sure, but the link to his domain in Chicago is the fbi building. It's probably similar elsewhere, with a focus on links to places involving hunting.
What business would Margaret have had in such places? Seeing as she was a woman on the run from one group or another for most of her adult life?
I'm not saying it's impossible, in just curious what she was up to.
I read that particular comment by the Erlking to suggest Harry was "a chip off the old block" in that she had done similar things to The Erlking in the past.
Which does bring the question of what she was running from. (Aside from the White Court.)
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She was not on the run her whole life. The difficulty with the glimpses of Margaret’s life we get is that they are difficult to place chronologically.
I said the majority of her adult life. Eb says "she ran off as soon as she could get away with it. Started taking up with bad sorts out of sheer rebellion."
He makes it sound like she ran as soon as she finished her formal training, and was all but immediately in trouble with the Council. Luccio confirms she was causing trouble for the Council within a year of joining. The wardens were to arrest her on sight. She was wanted for violating multiple Laws.
Add to that, with what we know about her mastering the Ways better than any mortal, and it's safe to say she was on the run a lot. It seems like her time with Raith might have been one of her more stable periods.
I mean, she might have spent years in a place, but the Wardens aren't fools. If there was any effort to catch her, and given Luccio's statement that they were all aware of her being a threat, then she was on the move a lot.
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I said the majority of her adult life. Eb says "she ran off as soon as she could get away with it. Started taking up with bad sorts out of sheer rebellion."
He makes it sound like she ran as soon as she finished her formal training, and was all but immediately in trouble with the Council. Luccio confirms she was causing trouble for the Council within a year of joining. The wardens were to arrest her on sight. She was wanted for violating multiple Laws.
Add to that, with what we know about her mastering the Ways better than any mortal, and it's safe to say she was on the run a lot. It seems like her time with Raith might have been one of her more stable periods.
I mean, she might have spent years in a place, but the Wardens aren't fools. If there was any effort to catch her, and given Luccio's statement that they were all aware of her being a threat, then she was on the move a lot.
She ran away from her teacher and started hanging out with the wrong crowd. We also know she exchanged notes with the gatekeeper and she was watched by the wardens for some time. It took time to get her knowledge of the ways. She must have wandered around for years before the death sentence kicked in.
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She ran away from her teacher and started hanging out with the wrong crowd. We also know she exchanged notes with the gatekeeper and she was watched by the wardens for some time. It took time to get her knowledge of the ways. She must have wandered around for years before the death sentence kicked in.
I don't doubt that, but by all counts, she was probably around 18 when she finished her schooling, and close to forty or so when she gave birth to Harry. She might have spent the majority of twenty years on the move.
Which makes me curious as to what she was doing ending up in the Erlking's domain, by the sound of it multiple times. Was she working with Lea and Mab, and going through his area of Faerie on business? Was she in places associated with hunting, and popped in out of necessity like Harry did?
It just makes me curious.
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I don't doubt that, but by all counts, she was probably around 18 when she finished her schooling, and close to forty or so when she gave birth to Harry.
Isn't there a WoJ that she was very old when she gave birth to Harry and was only able to conceive at that age because "wizards cheat."
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Isn't there a WoJ that she was very old when she gave birth to Harry and was only able to conceive at that age because "wizards cheat."
That was due to Ms Duck and others arguing that JB didn't take fertility into consideration regarding her age. The argument was that if she were old enough to be the daughter of Eb and his wife from over a century ago, she wouldn't have been fertile.
The possible solutions were that she aged slower due to a lot of time in the never-never (thus accounting for her fairly youthful appearance in the Raith painting and Harry's vision), or it was 'magic'.
Saying she was forty when Harry was born is likely on the very low end of her actual age. She was most likely over a hundred, but somehow looked considerably younger than other wizards do at that age, and was also still possessing viable eggs.
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She was most likely over a hundred, but somehow looked considerably younger than other wizards do at that age, and was also still possessing viable eggs.
She might just have good genes and look younger when she is middle age. For example, I had a waitress ask if I was 21 when I was 31. She wasn't just carding me. She really thought I wasn't old enough to drink. My mom looks a good ten years younger than she is, and so did my grandmother for most of her life. My little sister's friends who didn't know us in school always assume she is older than me.
I think I might be moving past that stage of my life now because the spread of grey hair is accelerating, but me and my siblings are mostly old enough that we could be at that stage where a wizard basically stops aging for a century or two. We're not young, but we're not what most people consider old either.
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That was due to Ms Duck and others arguing that JB didn't take fertility into consideration regarding her age. The argument was that if she were old enough to be the daughter of Eb and his wife from over a century ago, she wouldn't have been fertile.
The possible solutions were that she aged slower due to a lot of time in the never-never (thus accounting for her fairly youthful appearance in the Raith painting and Harry's vision), or it was 'magic'.
Saying she was forty when Harry was born is likely on the very low end of her actual age. She was most likely over a hundred, but somehow looked considerably younger than other wizards do at that age, and was also still possessing viable eggs.
The gatekeeper is also a lot older than he should be and he is never described as old. Time runs different in the nevernever and aging might be different too. Power and magic are associated with life and maybe aging slows down if you have and use it more.
And there are also Mouse words: “I live with a wizard. I cheat.”
She might even have picked up some sort of minor mantle or something like that. Something extra.
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That was due to Ms Duck and others arguing that JB didn't take fertility into consideration regarding her age. The argument was that if she were old enough to be the daughter of Eb and his wife from over a century ago, she wouldn't have been fertile.
Fertility for a female wizard might follow a different timeline. If wizards live to be three hundred or so years of age, a female wizard's peak fertility may very well be at the age of a hundred years give or take fifty years. Consider, nearing age forty, Harry is still looked upon as still wet behind the ears by many wizards, by his won admission it may take at least another sixty before his knowledge and power fully mature.
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Fertility for a female wizard might follow a different timeline. If wizards live to be three hundred or so years of age, a female wizard's peak fertility may very well be at the age of a hundred years give or take fifty years. Consider, nearing age forty, Harry is still looked upon as still wet behind the ears by many wizards, by his won admission it may take at least another sixty before his knowledge and power fully mature.
It probably differs from wizard to wizard too though I think the slower you age the less human you are.
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Yeah, I wasn't making a case for or against any of the theories. I was just adding depth to the WoJ, which likely stemmed from that convo or similar ones elsewhere back in the day.
I'm fine with the idea that Margaret was only 40. I'm fine with her being 140 but looking and reproducing like 40 because of good genes (obviously from her mother's side) and magic (anyone doubting that Lea would give a little help to a friend in exchange for something equal?) and varying magical biology (Mab was mortal once but still had kids after a few hundred years or so, so there are ways).
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It probably differs from wizard to wizard too though I think the slower you age the less human you are.
How do you figure?
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How do you figure?
I see wizard as a sort of halfway stage between normal human and not human anymore. There was a woj that Charity ages normal but would not have done so if she had not stopped using her magic. Magic slows aging, more magic slows it even more until you get so much magic that your nature get fixed. Something like that.
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I don't think Maggie was 40 but much more and I agree with Mira, fertility for wizards is longer than for normal humans.
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We know Eb's wife died in/around 1810, per the timeline. Assuming that was Margaret's mom, then she was born no later than then.
That means she was at least 165 in 1975 when Harry is presumed to have been born, give or take a year.
By comparison, Donald Morgan was born in the fairly late 1800s. In SF he's described as being "about fifty years old". Luccio was born in 1800, 10 years earlier than the late Margaret age, and in DB she's described as a solid old matriarch. She would have been 205.
What does all that mean? Who knows, probably nothing. But if Harry is as powerful as his mother, and she aged better than her peers, then Harry should probably slow down on his aging now that he's around 40.
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Didn't harry mention his aging slowing down soon to the body he'd have for most of his life? In either PT or BG, I just got BG as an actual book,(I despise audio books for usage as a reference..)so hopefully I'll be able to pin point where things are better soon..
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There's no reason to suspect Margaret was different in age to Luccio, and Luccio was past childbearing age when we first see her. Did Margaret time travel? That's all it takes. How better to hide then to just skip 60 or so years. She would have been untrackable while she was traveling.
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There's no reason to suspect Margaret was different in age to Luccio, and Luccio was past childbearing age when we first see her. Did Margaret time travel? That's all it takes. How better to hide then to just skip 60 or so years. She would have been untrackable while she was traveling.
There is actually. She got a child.
Wizards power is different so why not wizards aging? We have simply not enough data points to decide what is normal, what is exceptional and what is impossible.
And she knew the gatekeeper. Maybe it is just a trick from his book.
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There is actually. She got a child.
Wizards power is different so why not wizards aging? We have simply not enough data points to decide what is normal, what is exceptional and what is impossible.
And she knew the gatekeeper. Maybe it is just a trick from his book.
Yeah, the books are all about magic. So anything is possible. Given that it would seem pointless to speculate. Yet here we are, speculating. However I have no strong predilection for any point of view. I simply offered a possible take.
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I thought simply that some women are fertile during more years than others. The difference could be magnified in wizards, so in lieu of some years of difference it became a couple of decades.
But yes, an easier explanation is that she lived in the NN. She probably ate faerie food quite often too, which may have an influence. Or, of course, she may have been more than a human wizard to begin with.
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I thought simply that some women are fertile during more years than others. The difference could be magnified in wizards, so in lieu of some years of difference it became a couple of decades.
But yes, an easier explanation is that she lived in the NN. She probably ate faerie food quite often too, which may have an influence. Or, of course, she may have been more than a human wizard to begin with.
She might even have been winter knight, why not?
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A line in Blood Rites,
Harry: Just plain folks? I don't even think you are human.
Kincaid: I'm as human as you are.
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A line in Blood Rites,
Harry: Just plain folks? I don't even think you are human.
Kincaid: I'm as human as you are.
Well, half human, looks aren't everything..
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She probably ate faerie food quite often too, which may have an influence.
The influence is that it turns to ectoplasm and evaporates when one returns to the mortal world. Which is bad enough when it hasn't been digested and turned into blood and organs and stuff.
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A line in Blood Rites,
Harry: Just plain folks? I don't even think you are human.
Kincaid: I'm as human as you are.
That is a dig at the council’s narrow minded view of what humans are. Including themselves but assigning no value to other creatures also at least partly human. Wizards are not that human themselves depending how you look at it and I would not like a organisation that declared mee free game because I was not human enough for them.