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Messages - Orbweaver

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31
DF Reference Collection / Re: Series Spanning Plot Threads
« on: November 15, 2012, 11:05:20 PM »
Series Spinning plot threads?

Drakul, Titania, and anyone else Jim is keeping in reserve until we hit the BAT. Ferrovax is in there as well.

-The identity of anyone who opened the Outer Gates through the series.

-Summer Knight: The identity of the traitor at Archangel and the method used to betray the warden stronghold.

-The quote from Jim about not messing with the Librarians.

-The Oblivion War

-Margaret LeFay

Off the top of my head, these are some pretty big over-arcing plot lines.

32
Author Craft / Re: insperation has gone
« on: November 08, 2012, 03:16:32 AM »
Quite often, I find that my own muse is most inspired by listening to a particular brand of music for the scene I want to write.

For instance, if the scene involves flight of some sort, I want something that's going to have a lot of peaks and valleys in terms of the score (piano music is awesome at that, as is anything featuring a violin/cello). If I'm writing a combat scene, something that gets the adrenalin/angst flowing (most newer rock music, from bands like Disturbed or Five Finger Death punch, work particularly well for me.) It really depends on what I'm trying to write, but I usually find that music motivates me to put my fingers to the keyboard.

Sometimes a really well drawn painting/piece of artwork will do it too, so if the music doesn't work, I hit deviantart to look at concept work. I try to think about what kind of mood I want the characters to have, what I want to set for the reader, where the story is heading plot-wise, how I can blend something unexpected or foreshadow an upcoming event- usually thinking about it for a bit, with music in the background, results in a few thousand words appearing on the screen.

The third source of inspiration for me comes from reading others' work. Sometimes taking a step back from your own writing for a bit and enjoying what others have done lets the muse recharge itself.

33
Site Suggestions & Support / Re: Officially ticked off
« on: November 07, 2012, 01:56:51 AM »
Before I forget, here's the other castle the founder of both supposedly built before he climbed into a boat with his psychiatrist and never returned from the outing (and I'll include the lake, too, as the whole area is freaking gorgeous):




34
Site Suggestions & Support / Re: Officially ticked off
« on: November 06, 2012, 12:43:32 AM »
The fun part was that I was imagined the Neuschwanstein castle in winter when I read that, Ms. D:



I've been there in person, but not in the winter. Here's how it looks in summer (yes, I took this photo myself:)

35
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 06, 2012, 12:03:18 AM »
The only way a coin can be taken up is through Free Will,

Not according to Michael in Small Favor, I think. He states that a heavily compromised individual can be coerced into taking a coin- people on drugs, people with serious mental instabilities, people who are locked in a coma (I think, I don't have the exact quote to hand)- but the Denarians are capable of inhabiting someone with Free Will without their given consent.

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meaning Sanya made the choice.  Was he influenced?  Absolutely, but he made the choice freely.  At that point in Sanya's timeline, I don't think they (The White God/Knights of the Cross) planned anything regarding him except maybe an eventual death.  When Shiro came along, after Sanya realized what was happening, they saw an opportunity because he had previously freely given up the coin to become a Knight, which he then again, chose freely.  I don't feel that was a long con or a drawn up fate waiting specifically for Sanya, but the combined consequences of all of his freely made choices and actions.

Are you sure they were freely made, though? That's kind of Tessa's gig. She preys on the suffering of others to get them to pick up the coin, and she (when paired with Nicodemus) excels in causing suffering. I absolutely would not put it past her to get someone unwillingly addicted to a substance, and then touch a coin to their hand while they were so out of it they couldn't possibly accept an offer. Sanya didn't exactly elaborate much on what process Tessa used to get him to take a coin.

36
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 10:23:38 PM »

Fair enough then; to my mind, a rule that works on a basis of "if any of these other rules are broken you are permitted a precisely defined action in response corresponding exactly to the scale of the infraction" would count as legitimising any such actions, and meaning that no rules are broken or bent in taking them. (I am inclined to see the rules under which non-free-willed, or differently free-willed - as per the best interpretation of combined WoJ and textev on DV angels appearing to be that they have classic Catholic dogma values of angelic free will, viz. one Choice and one only, to fall or not to Fall, so for practical and tactical purposes non-free-willed - beings operated as having a degree of commonality, and therefore, the was in which the non-free-willed Accord signatories operate as being potentially useful information in re how Uriel may deal with the rules under which it operates;  I don't see operating within the letter of the rules to whatever the best available outcome is, while disregarding the spirit, as bending them (hacking them perhaps) because the concept of "spirit of the rules" seems inapplicable in this context.)

I can understand how you would see things that way... I'm just not sure that Nicodemus, Tessa, Lasciel, Namshiel, or any of the other Denarians/Fallen are going to view things as either you or I see them. They've certainly shown no shortage of dislike for the agents of Heaven, mortal or otherwise. Shiro's manner of death was a message to more than just Harry, I think, as was Michael's own "fall" from service. Whether they managed to take anyone out on the not fallen, non-mortal side of things isn't something we've been privy to.

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That's an interesting take on it.  Taken at face value, I would posit that Uriel's avowed position on free will would be such that Heaven could neither intervene with Sanya choosing to take up a coin nor choosing to set one down again; I would find the idea of that being a long con rather appealing, save that I think we have WoJs indicating that we are meant to take Heaven at face value in the whole free will thing.

I think they could intervene, provided someone on Nick's side of things had done something first. That's the catch with everything Heaven does.

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That argument is however predicated on the underlying assumption that each side is equally entitled to differing opinions; if one side gets to define what is right and what is wrong at a universal scale, it seems that the other might have a harder time of arguing against it than in a difference of opinion among humans.

Yeah, that's true. I'm not stating that the two sides are necessarily using "right" versus "wrong" as a basis for their actions, but rather using it to convince others that their way of doing things is for the "good" of everyone involved in those actions, whether directly or not. Hence why the Denarians probably aren't taking the flip side of the proverbial coins at face value. They know that their own actions are likely going to cause something very similar in nature to happen, and therefore can't expect Heaven to act in a manner consistent with the initial "rules" given.

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I don't get the impression it's possible within the DV for the WG to, tomorrow, announce that murder is henceforward right and no longer evil, for example.  If one were to posit that as possible or even likely, it would certainly throw the consistency of Heaven's following its own rules in other areas into question.

I can't honestly speak as to the motivations of TWG. Maybe if we're lucky, Jim will put him/her/it into play during the BAT. He'd have to be careful, though, as riling that particular section of readers up is a very easy thing to do.

37
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 09:22:23 PM »
I think I'm seeing the rules of engagement at a different scale from what I may have come across as meaning, then, and I am sorry I was unclear.

I do not think Uriel is breaking any rules of engagement, ever. I think Uriel is quite clear about being permitted equal and opposite interventions to some specific class of actions from the Fallen - I don't think that's breaking any rule, I think it is a rule.  And rather a specific one, down to the level of seven words for seven words. I also think it's clear that if Uriel ever did break the rules under which it is allowed to work, it would Fall.



No need to apologize, Neuro, I took no offense. I do think on a different wavelength than most other people seem to, which is probably why the miscommunication happened.

To me, it looks as though Uriel is allowed to commit actions that it would normally not be able to if, and only if, the other side did it first. As we haven't really had a good look at what determines the actions it may take in response, I can't conclude that Uriel hasn't broken a rule of engagement in response to another broken rule. It may be that TWG allows it to "break" or "bend" the rules under very specific circumstances- but to me, doing something it otherwise would not be enabled to do, in response to a stimulus from the other side, is still a bent rule.

It also helps to clarify what Nicodemus meant when he spoke about the Church having excellent propaganda. Consider Sanya, for example- Heaven allowed him to pick up a coin, in order to make him a Knight later on down the line. They let him run around with Magog's brute strength and the knowledge of a Fallen Angel, doing no small amount of harm to the other humans/creatures running around the planet, in exchange for what he would do as a Knight of the Cross.

Heaven not being above using evil to their own ends means that the "White" part of TWG's title has a bit of a scuff on it. Do I think the Denarians are going to use the actions of their counterparts in Heaven as "proof" that they are just as corrupt, or possibly worse in nature, to justify their own actions? Absolutely. Two wrongs very rarely, if at all, equal a right. So in order to "right" the other side's "wrongs", the lies, betrayal, stealing, loss of life, bending or breaking of Will, etc... well, you get the point, I think.

Their "trusting" TWG, or it's agents, to hold to their "word" just doesn't fit with what we've heard from Nicodemus, Lash, or even with what we've seen with regards to a current Knight.

38
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 08:37:03 PM »
It depends on whether you see trusting Heaven's overall moral objectives and trusting Heaven's strategic approaches as the same thing.  Uriel may have conned the Father of Lies, but unless he's running a long con on Harry and all the supposedly clued-in Church and related people Harry interacts with (which i am entirely prepared to believe), he is bound by rules of engagement.

Then why has Uriel been taking actions that deliberately break the "rules of engagement" in order to "keep the balance", as he suggested he's been doing with Harry? He specifically said that because seven words were used to "break" the rules, he also gets seven words he can use. If Heaven is trying to have their cake and eat it too, I don't think Nicodemus and his crew are just going to sit back and let them do so.

That means the Denarians are expecting the rules of engagement to almost routinely get broken. By both sides.

39
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 08:05:44 PM »
It's always seemed to me that they're fight is about exploiting his rules.  They're on the planet to balance his actions after all.  Of course they'd trust the dude that invented physics to follow the laws he set down.

After we've had Uriel, who supposedly conned the father of lies? Jim has openly stated that in the DV, Heaven is not above using evil to their own ends. Nicodemus and his crew know better than to trust what they're being told by the other side of the conflict. That's just common sense.

40
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 07:55:25 PM »
It's odd to trust God?  I'm pretty sure that's like the whole religion...  And the denarian's believe.  They know he'll follow the rules.

TWG. And yes, I don't think that they're going to give him carte-blanche on any set of "rules" he lays out. If they were going to do that, they'd have simply followed him instead of becoming what they are today. To quote Nicodemus: "The church has always had excellent propaganda."

41
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 07:43:38 PM »
This depends on whether the properties are inherent in the material of the entire sword, or are inherent in the nail which could be separately removed (or at least, from Harry's descriptions of Amoracchius in GP, the nail seems to exist as a physically distinct entity rather than being melted down into the substance of the sword.)

Yes, and then we go even further into whether it was the hilt/nail that was damaged and resulted in a reforging or whether it was the entire sword that needed repair work. If the nail exists as a separate entity from the sword, but still has the capacity to interact with/exert influence on the sword, is there anything blocking those energies from flowing back the other direction (from Sword to Nail)? I don't think so, as the text implies that using the sword itself to murder an innocent would destroy the weapon's power source (i.e. the nail, even though it was the blade that was used to kill).

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Maybe; I'm not seeing it as impossible that they are both fairly familiar with the WG's rules of engagement and have faith in the swords being destroyed if those rules are broken from experience of seeing corresponding rules broken in non-sword situations, though.

So they're trusting the WG to keep to his rules of engagement? That's odd, considering they've been at odds with the entity and his followers for as long as humankind has existed.

42
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 07:10:39 PM »
I am seeing a distinction between the being reforged level of remade, and being destroyed by gross misuse such as sacrificing an innocent life, as is threatened in GP; that latter does not seem to be anything anyone involved with sees as being recoverable from.  I'm not seeing that a sword being physically melted down and reforged would need to entail any change in or risk to its metaphysical status.

Ok. Next question:

How do you take a Sword, which has the inherent qualities of Sacrifice (and I think it was Hope, right? I can't remember whether it was Fidellachius or Amorrachius that went through the reformation) and the Crucifixion itself imbued in it- and then not destroy and/or lose any of that while melting or replacing the blade and/or hilt? You're messing with more than just the physical properties of the thing itself by removing and/or adding to it to achieve a new shape.

I think of it as being like what happens when you try to implant a foreign blood type into your own system. Not only would it not recognize the incoming substance, but it would be likely to attack it. In this case, I think it makes more sense for the Sword itself to have been totally destroyed, making the later version necessary.

Edit: Also, Nicodemus, Lea, and a number of other entities certainly seem to have faith that the Swords can be unmade. It seems much more likely that they got that information from it having already happened somewhere along the line.

43
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 05:27:32 PM »
I don't think we do, because the swords have not actually been unmade; how many "oh, sword at risk - ooh, fortuitous rescue before it gets harmed" instances do you need before you start suspecting the WG of poking things here and there to prevent them ever actually being destroyed ?

Well, not entirely true. We know that at least one sword has been reforged, or reshaped. Are we absolutely certain that the Sword itself wasn't destroyed for this to happen?

44
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 01:31:47 AM »
I view PG and SmF as two separate stories, in that the actions of PG did not impact the events of SmF beyond the experience themselves.  Keep in mind also, that if someone on the White God's team stepped in to fix LC, that would mean that somebody on the Fallen Angel's side would've had to have cheated and damaged LC, and on that, we have absolutely no proof.  Uriel says its all about balance, and he can't act before the other side.

Not necessarily. I suspect that if Uriel/TWG had acted to fix LC, the other side would've taken liberties elsewhere. The two do not necessarily have to be related by area, only in scope.

And actually, now I"m wondering if part of the reason Hell decided to work with the Denarians on circling the Archive was because someone from the opposite team fixed Little Chicago.

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So without evidence that the other side cheated, we have no way to argue that somebody working for the White God acted on Little Chicago, even to protect the swords.

It's inconclusive. We know that he/she/it has been willing to allow the Swords to be unmade in the past, but it was always a mortal's decision to do so. I'm not sure the Denarian half-breeds count in terms of tipping that balance.

45
DF Reference Collection / Re: The YLC (Why Little Chicago) thread
« on: November 05, 2012, 01:12:52 AM »
If Harry had died in PG, though, who would Mab have sent to retrieve Marcone ?  I can't see Nicodemus getting hold of Ivy, let alone getting in a position to bargain for Fidelacchius with whoever got it next, without Harry.

It's not as if Mab doesn't have other options, and Nicodemus likely would still have made the deal with the power source for the circle that cut off the Archive's access to magic. Had he killed a KOTC (Sanya is most likely), tricking someone into helping him unmake the Sword would have been child's play from there.

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