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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on August 15, 2021, 05:43:26 AM
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Thomas attempted to murder their leader. He's missing, and at large. He's close to a Harry Dresden who will now be marrying his sister. I have to imagine that the Svartalves see this as an attempt by the White Court to assassinate their leader, and they are now protecting Thomas with the help of the exiled wizard Dresden.
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Politically speaking, right now the White Court can disavow Thomas safely. So, the svartalves are allowed to kill him under the Accords... if they could find him. Marcone had custody of him last, so the svartalves might have a legitimate beef with him, but there are probably monetary options for smoothing that over in the Accords. To go after Harry overtly, they'd need to prove that Harry stole Thomas.
Harry definitely burned his bridges with the svartalves, but I don't think we're looking at open war right now. The short stories post BG didn't seem like it either.
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Thomas attempted to murder their leader. He's missing, and at large. He's close to a Harry Dresden who will now be marrying his sister. I have to imagine that the Svartalves see this as an attempt by the White Court to assassinate their leader, and they are now protecting Thomas with the help of the exiled wizard Dresden.
I think the Svartalves are smart enough to realise the timing of Thomas assassination was right before Ethniu and the Fomor attack there by sowing discontent among the Accorded Nations.
There passive aggressive way of denying Harry Molly's apartment is the most that will come of it. I doubt they'll be friendly with the White Court but I equally doubt there'll be an all out war over it.
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I think the Svartalves are smart enough to realise the timing of Thomas assassination was right before Ethniu and the Fomor attack there by sowing discontent among the Accorded Nations.
There passive aggressive way of denying Harry Molly's apartment is the most that will come of it. I doubt they'll be friendly with the White Court but I equally doubt there'll be an all out war over it.
Wondering if any of those assassination attempts in Twelve Months will put on by the Svartalves. Might not go to war but I could see them putting out a hit.
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Could be. Where did we learn about assassination attempts in Twelve Months? I've been out of the interview loop a bit.
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Thomas attempted to murder their leader. He's missing, and at large. He's close to a Harry Dresden who will now be marrying his sister. I have to imagine that the Svartalves see this as an attempt by the White Court to assassinate their leader, and they are now protecting Thomas with the help of the exiled wizard Dresden.
They went from glaring at Harry on sight to lying to help him corner Marcone at the meeting so I'd say that Harry cleared that up offscreen.
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They went from glaring at Harry on sight to lying to help him corner Marcone at the meeting so I'd say that Harry cleared that up offscreen.
Yes, I'd agree, at some point he must of told them that he has Thomas locked up, or more likely Mab did.
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The short stories post BG didn't seem like it either.
Ummm...What? Are there some short stories floating around post BG that haven't been shared with the public?
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They went from glaring at Harry on sight to lying to help him corner Marcone at the meeting so I'd say that Harry cleared that up offscreen.
Or, perhaps they are terrified of Harry given what he did to Ethniu.
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Ummm...What? Are there some short stories floating around post BG that haven't been shared with the public?
There are some microfictions posted on Jim's website. Microfictions here (https://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/side-jobs)
They're short and character driven.
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There are some microfictions posted on Jim's website. Microfictions here (https://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/side-jobs)
They're short and character driven.
Thanks! I remember reading these, but looks like I need to do a reread.
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Yes, I'd agree, at some point he must of told them that he has Thomas locked up, or more likely Mab did.
I mean yeah tbf being locked u in Demonreach might be considered a more just punishment and compromise from the Svartalves White Court relations perspective.
Like being sent to the Night's Watch.
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I mean yeah tbf being locked u in Demonreach might be considered a more just punishment and compromise from the Svartalves White Court relations perspective.
Like being sent to the Night's Watch.
Actually a bit better solution, because the Svartalves have no interest in further dividing the Accords considering that they all more or less officially at war now with the Fomor.. Sending Jon Snow to the Night Watch was a real cop out.
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Also don't the Svartelves say that they don't want to bother punishing the Tool, which is why that twit Listens the hypercompetent mook is still alive after Bombshells?
If Harry explained to them Thomas was being blackmailed then they might've just decided he wasn't the one ultimately responsible and let it drop.
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Also don't the Svartelves say that they don't want to bother punishing the Tool, which is why that twit Listens the hypercompetent mook is still alive after Bombshells?
If Harry explained to them Thomas was being blackmailed then they might've just decided he wasn't the one ultimately responsible and let it drop.
I agree. Molly has good relations with the Svartelves and may have told them about Nemesis. Harry also did some serious smacking on the Fomor and is pretty scary.
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I mean yeah tbf being locked u in Demonreach might be considered a more just punishment and compromise from the Svartalves White Court relations perspective.
Like being sent to the Night's Watch.
Also a jailed Thomas may eventually talk, a dead one won't. They need the why ... especially after the Titan invasion. It happened way too soon after this to be dismissed as coincidence. And the svartalf spies in the White Court have probably told them that after Harry threw Thomas in jail Lara was very pissed at him. And if they could get an account, possibly by Freydis, from Vadderung's organization, Lara, with her Valkyrie bodyguard, attacked Dresden for this - and were swatted down like flies.
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Also a jailed Thomas may eventually talk, a dead one won't. They need the why ... especially after the Titan invasion. It happened way too soon after this to be dismissed as coincidence. And the svartalf spies in the White Court have probably told them that after Harry threw Thomas in jail Lara was very pissed at him. And if they could get an account, possibly by Freydis, from Vadderung's organization, Lara, with her Valkyrie bodyguard, attacked Dresden for this - and were swatted down like flies.
Are there svartalf spies in the White Court? They don't exactly blend in. Even if there are, they're not eavesdropping on what happened at Demonreach. The island's intellectus would have alerted him to other people on the island.
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Are there svartalf spies in the White Court? They don't exactly blend in. Even if there are, they're not eavesdropping on what happened at Demonreach. The island's intellectus would have alerted him to other people on the island.
No, but I can see Molly filling them in on all of that. Not sure how much Harry may have told her
but her assurance that Thomas wasn't escaping "justice" on the island would have gone a long way I think.
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Molly is no longer Molly.
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Molly is no longer Molly.
Yes, she is the Winter Lady, but lots of Molly remains.. Suggest you reread the short story, "Good People." Even if she was basically all Winter Lady, it isn't in the interest of the Winter Court or any other member of the Accords for one faction to be at war with another no matter how big the provocation was.
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Yes, she is the Winter Lady, but lots of Molly remains.. Suggest you reread the short story, "Good People." Even if she was basically all Winter Lady, it isn't in the interest of the Winter Court or any other member of the Accords for one faction to be at war with another no matter how big the provocation was.
Molly is Winter Lady enough that she can't give something away for nothing. The location of an enemy is valuable. All this is assuming that Molly knows, of course. She'd probably put together why Harry needed the illusion ring, but it isn't a given.
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Are there svartalf spies in the White Court? They don't exactly blend in. Even if there are, they're not eavesdropping on what happened at Demonreach. The island's intellectus would have alerted him to other people on the island.
the spies do not have to be Svaltalves. Did Harry have a spy in the White Court? Sure he did - Justine. The White Court didn't find her. She left when it was clear she was Nemfected. The Black Council had their agent in the White Council - LaFortier (plus others). Cowl had his agent in the White Court - Vitto Malvora. As for what happened on Demonreach - doesn't Lara have an organization? Vadderrung does - Monoc Securities. We know Lara employs humans - security, medical, Justine... Vadderung may as well. Reports get filed, and files get leaked. People who get secrets sell secrets. Money is power, and power corrupts.
Look at real life - Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were not Russians, were not present at atomic tests, and were Russian spies passing atomic secrets.
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No, but I can see Molly filling them in on all of that. Not sure how much Harry may have told her
but her assurance that Thomas wasn't escaping "justice" on the island would have gone a long way I think.
I can't see Molly filling them in FOR FREE. Can favors be exchanged? My info for....
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the spies do not have to be Svaltalves. Did Harry have a spy in the White Court? Sure he did - Justine. The White Court didn't find her. She left when it was clear she was Nemfected. The Black Council had their agent in the White Council - LaFortier (plus others). Cowl had his agent in the White Court - Vitto Malvora. As for what happened on Demonreach - doesn't Lara have an organization? Vadderrung does - Monoc Securities. We know Lara employs humans - security, medical, Justine... Vadderung may as well. Reports get filed, and files get leaked. People who get secrets sell secrets. Money is power, and power corrupts.
Look at real life - Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were not Russians, were not present at atomic tests, and were Russian spies passing atomic secrets.
Idk, the svartalves don't seem the type to place spies. They're very by-the-book.
Regardless, there were 4.5 people present near Demonreach at the end of PT. Harry, Lara, Justine, Murphy, and technically Thomas. Which one of them is gonna talk about what happened there? Not Harry, not Lara, and definitely not Murphy. It would all depend on Freydis, and if anyone she'd tell Vadderung. I don't think he'd tell either. The events on the island will stay secret.
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Yes, she is the Winter Lady, but lots of Molly remains.. Suggest you reread the short story, "Good People." Even if she was basically all Winter Lady, it isn't in the interest of the Winter Court or any other member of the Accords for one faction to be at war with another no matter how big the provocation was.
I don't SEE a reason Winter, which is relatively unconcerned with this plane, would care so much... but I could see PLENTY of reasons other factions might like to see factions at war. The likes of the Swartalves could be weapons merchants. Sell to both sides. Other factions might benefit from another's demise - fill in the gap left when the Red court was obliterated. The Fomor got in good. A real life hypothetical - the US collapses. States war on states. Wisconsin gives Ohio, currently at war with Michigan, great information and weapons. Ohio wins, takes three quarters of Michigan, but lets WI take the UP in return for aid received.
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Idk, the svartalves don't seem the type to place spies. They're very by-the-book.
Regardless, there were 4.5 people present near Demonreach at the end of PT. Harry, Lara, Justine, Murphy, and technically Thomas. Which one of them is gonna talk about what happened there? Not Harry, not Lara, and definitely not Murphy. It would all depend on Freydis, and if anyone she'd tell Vadderung. I don't think he'd tell either. The events on the island will stay secret.
Justine is Nemfected. Whoever is behind that may leak stuff if they want. And Lara and Vadderung have organizations. Heck, Madeline was family and gave Lara up. That was a hole. I'll trust Harry and Murphy. Harry doesn't have much of an organization (one of the reasons he's on the outs with Carlos) and Murphy's wanted to pretend such things did not happen. Lara directly is likely safe.
As far as the svaltalves spying? because they are more good guys? Old Russian saying - trust, but verify. Heck, don't you think MAC is a spy/observer? For all we know, Uriel could be running him. Uriel is a good guy. The good guys too run spies, if only to try to find out where the OTHER side's spies and moles are.
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I don't SEE a reason Winter, which is relatively unconcerned with this plane, would care so much... but I could see PLENTY of reasons other factions might like to see factions at war. The likes of the Swartalves could be weapons merchants. Sell to both sides. Other factions might benefit from another's demise - fill in the gap left when the Red court was obliterated. The Fomor got in good. A real life hypothetical - the US collapses. States war on states. Wisconsin gives Ohio, currently at war with Michigan, great information and weapons. Ohio wins, takes three quarters of Michigan, but lets WI take the UP in return for aid received.
Mab cares, Mab is Winter, as Lady, Molly cares... Winter is part of the Accords, it is Mab's big thing, the Accords are at war with the Fomor.. The better analogy is like during WWII the U.S. decided to fight a little war on the side with it's ally Canada while trying to fight Nazi Germany.. If the U.S. did that the Allies would have had a much less of a chance to defeat Nazi Germany and the rest of the Axis Powers. The members of the Accords have to remain united if they are to defeat the Fomor.
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As a general premise, there are no true secrets. So if the Svaltalves need to know they would have assets of the kind that would let them find out eventually.
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the spies do not have to be Svaltalves. Did Harry have a spy in the White Court? Sure he did - Justine. The White Court didn't find her.
I find it really difficult to believe Lara wouldn't have predicted Thomas' lover would share information with him, and given that Thomas was closer to Harry than to the Raiths for a good part of the time since BR, anything that concerned him would probably have reached him. Lara isn't dumb, and that wasn't anywhere near as subtle a spy placement as Harry seemed to think.
Lara saw Justine as useful because she couldn't be whammied by anyone else in the court and would generally support Lara because Lara was looking out for her beloved Thomas, but I really doubt she was ignorant of Justine's allegiances. I think anything Justine saw was filtered through 1) does Lara mind if Harry sees it? 2) can Lara benefit from Justine unwittingly passing misinformation to Harry on this topic?
The latter may have been an unintended blessing, because while Harry actually didn't ask Justine for much out of concern for her safety, Lara was probably showing her enough disinformation as a precaution that Nemesis would have got a fair bit of fake mixed in with the real material.
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Mab cares, Mab is Winter, as Lady, Molly cares... Winter is part of the Accords, it is Mab's big thing, the Accords are at war with the Fomor.. The better analogy is like during WWII the U.S. decided to fight a little war on the side with it's ally Canada while trying to fight Nazi Germany.. If the U.S. did that the Allies would have had a much less of a chance to defeat Nazi Germany and the rest of the Axis Powers. The members of the Accords have to remain united if they are to defeat the Fomor.
Molly cares but she is subservient to Mab. Mab doesn't care so much about the world but she cares if someone else may take it and can use it to upset the balance of power. If you want a WWII analogy, Britain probably didn't care so much about Indonesia for Indonesia, but when the Japanese secured their OIL FIELDS.... NOW it is a concern. The Fomor seize the surface, they have more leverage. They get human weapons? Even Ethneiu at times seemed to not want to be there when the Army arrived.
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Molly cares but she is subservient to Mab. Mab doesn't care so much about the world but she cares if someone else may take it and can use it to upset the balance of power.
True, no one can accuse Mab of being sentimental, but irregardless of what she cares about, she does, and the balance keeps the rest of us safe.
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I think the Svartalves are smart enough to realise the timing of Thomas assassination was right before Ethniu and the Fomor attack there by sowing discontent among the Accorded Nations.
There passive aggressive way of denying Harry Molly's apartment is the most that will come of it. I doubt they'll be friendly with the White Court but I equally doubt there'll be an all out war over it.
The svartalves were actually helping Harry with his claim against Marcone.
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The svartalves were actually helping Harry with his claim against Marcone.
Yes, Battle Ground page 384 Harry confronts Marcone saying that he, [Harry] defended his home and lost his own home in the process. Then;
I pointed at Evanna.
Everyone looked at her.
"There was. . .damage to the apartment during the attack," she politely lied. "No replacement at apartment at this time. As such he can no longer be our guest."
Now for a couple of reasons Evanna may have found it awkward not to back him, i.e. Thomas is Harry's bother, Thomas was also Evanna's lover, little details that she might not have wanted made public at the time. Whether it came down to personal reasons, or she had been filled in that for now at any rate Thomas was being punished for his deeds by the Winter Knight and Warden of Demonreach, she chose to back Harry on this.
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The svartalves were actually helping Harry with his claim against Marcone.
Helping Harry's claim with Marcone also means that they can diplomatically kick him out of the apartment and cutting ties. Two birds, one stone.
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According to Kringle Mab has excellent relations with the svartalves.
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Helping Harry's claim with Marcone also means that they can diplomatically kick him out of the apartment and cutting ties. Two birds, one stone.
That too, that is diplomatically getting him out of their hair without offending Mab, which is important since the Svartalves have no intention of cutting ties with the Accords, especially in these times.