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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Mr. Death on January 11, 2016, 03:33:56 PM
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So a couple ideas I had, both dealing with clearly stress boxes mid-scene. Idea the first:
On Your Feet, Soldier! (Presence): Once per session, you may roll Presence to attempt to clear another character's Physical or Mental stress boxes. You must declare which track you're attempting to clear before the roll. The number of shifts on your roll determines how many, and the level of, stress boxes you can clear (i.e., if you roll a 3, you can clear up to the third stress box on one track).
OR
On Your Feet, Soldier! (Presence): Once per session, you may spend a fate point to completely clear one stress track of an allied character.
I'm not sure which to go with -- the latter would be more of a sure thing, especially if you have allies with Toughness powers. Also not sure on the balance of either, though I think once per session, and the possibility of outright failure in the first version, keeps it in line.
Idea the second:
Second Wind (Endurance): One per session, you may spend a fate point to clear your physical stress track.
Thoughts?
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Personally, I think it should only be a temporary thing, and not a permanent thing. You can fight through wear and tear, but you can't run from it forever, eventually it catches up to you and you have to pay the price for pushing yourself past your limits.
So if you decide to allow a stunt like that, it should either:
1. Come with debt (1 debt per 2 shifts of stress, and weariness related compels to call in the debt); or
2. It should hold off the stress and then apply it again at the end of the scene. If you go with this option, then it will probably end up applying consequences, which I find the more thematically appropriate of the two.
As far as your options, I think the once per session, and spend a FP to do it, works well. However, if you make it a temporary thing, like I've suggested, then I think just once per session will be fine, no FP needed.
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Personally, I think it should only be a temporary thing, and not a permanent thing. You can fight through wear and tear, but you can't run from it forever, eventually it catches up to you and you have to pay the price for pushing yourself past your limits.
So if you decide to allow a stunt like that, it should either:
1. Come with debt (1 debt per 2 shifts of stress, and weariness related compels to call in the debt); or
2. It should hold off the stress and then apply it again at the end of the scene. If you go with this option, then it will probably end up applying consequences, which I find the more thematically appropriate of the two.
As far as your options, I think the once per session, and spend a FP to do it, works well. However, if you make it a temporary thing, like I've suggested, then I think just once per session will be fine, no FP needed.
Stress isn't permanent anyway, though -- it's gone at the end of a scene automatically, so having it reapply at the end of a scene makes no sense. It'll just be gone, again, in a moment.
And the debt mechanic is a little strict and extreme for a stunt to wipe away something that is by nature transient and extremely temporary.
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Stress isn't permanent anyway, though -- it's gone at the end of a scene automatically, so having it reapply at the end of a scene makes no sense. It'll just be gone, again, in a moment.
Here is what I was thinking:
This is my stress track mid-fight:
XOXX
I use my stunt to clear my stress track bringing back it to this.
OOOO
At the end of the fight, this is my stress track.
XOOX
But my stunt says that I have reapply the stress I'd cleared previously. The total stress is 8. I take five of that away filling up my #2 and #3 stress box:
XXXX
but I have 3 stress remaining that need to be applied, so I take a moderate consequence as well. Your stress track clears, but you're left with the consequence.
This creates consequences for pushing yourself past your limits in a fight, but gives you the advantage of not having to face those consequences mid-fight and risk losing your objective.
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That's a bit complicated and doesn't really fit the flavor I'm going for with the stunts.
It's like in an action movie, where the hero gets the crap kicked out of him, then something makes him push himself back up and he seems refreshed -- think the end of Mission: Impossible 3, or Commando after Arnie's been shot, then comes out ready for a knife fight. In those cases, the hero doesn't suddenly drop with a bunch of extra injuries afterward. It's the equivalent of taking a moment to catch their breath and come out fresh.
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I like the ideas behind the stunts in principle, but the application seems a bit by the way.
When I read just the title of the stunt, I've immediately got a scene in my head. And any kind of scene like this usually brings us out of the current conflict and zooms in on the downed hero, the music may slow down, the noises of the conflict are dulled and far away, and so fort. In other words, there's more to it than just clearing stress. It's almost a scene in and of itself.
So why not make this similarly powerful in terms of narrative impact? Stress is boring. Clearing stress is boring. At worst, you will clear stress and not take a single additional hit. And since stress is just a sort of plot armor, near misses counter, scrapes, etc. kind of thing, nothing really happened.
BUT, what if we bring someone back who was already out? To literally get that soldier back up on his feet after he went down. To summon your last reserves and step into the breach once more. Let a character that's taken out come back into play. That's where the real action is.
So these stunts could bring a character back from being taken out and have them clear their stress tracks. Once per session with a cost of a fate point should be limiting enough. Of course the character wouldn't get any fate points for being taken out there, if he gets back into the game. No double dipping.
Have it be accompanied by a dramatic speech in the case of the presence version or a description of images flashing before his eyes or something like that in the case of the self version, and you've got yourself a cool little mini-scene with a great impact.
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That does seem pretty dramatically appropriate, but being able to bring someone back from Taken Out once a session seems pretty powerful. I mean, Taken Out is supposed to be pretty heavy and consequential.
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Sure it's powerful, but that's deliberate. I would probably see to it that it's not something every character takes, you kind of want to get stuff dead fast as well. But for some characters, this could be really cool.
Of course, you could add some more conditions on this. Maybe you need to concede yourself in order to bring someone else back into the fight. Or someone else has to be taken out before you can bring up the strength to get back up.
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That's a bit complicated and doesn't really fit the flavor I'm going for with the stunts.
It's like in an action movie, where the hero gets the crap kicked out of him, then something makes him push himself back up and he seems refreshed -- think the end of Mission: Impossible 3, or Commando after Arnie's been shot, then comes out ready for a knife fight. In those cases, the hero doesn't suddenly drop with a bunch of extra injuries afterward. It's the equivalent of taking a moment to catch their breath and come out fresh.
I see what you're saying, but Rambo and Ethan Hunt are not very realistic people. Think of Harry in Fool Moon. He takes the super-coffee potion and it ramps him up, but as soon as it wears off there is a price to pay. Now I'm speaking from personal preference, so do as you like, but I don't like the idea of just removing stress without having to pay the price. There may be a better way to do it than my idea though.
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I don't like the idea of clearing a whole stress track. Especially when combined with toughness. You could spend a whole fight filling up 8 stress boxes and then they wipe it away. I therefore, like your first idea.
You could have the same stunt work on the person who took it by reskinning it to discipline and/or endurance.
To get rid of extra rolls, Have your skill be the number you can wipe away.
Endurance 4 lets you clear up to your 4th stress box.
Or any combination: a 3 and a 1 etc...
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I'd allow the first stunt, at least on a trial basis. Absorbing a skill roll's worth of stress once per session seems a bit better than the standard example stunt which lets you take two extra mild consequences under a specific circumstance, so it should probably take your action for the turn.
But clearing a whole stress track seems dubious.
Bringing people back from Taken Out is interesting, but mechanically problematic. Might work better if it required action at the moment of take-out. Something like...
On Your Feet, Soldier! (Presence): When an ally is hit with a mental or social attack that threatens to take them out, you may spend a Fate Point and roll Presence. You may have your roll replace their defense roll or add it to their armour. Either way, if your ally then avoids being taken out they're temporarily incapacitated. They recover when you spend an action giving them an impromptu inspirational speech. You don't need to be present to use the first part of this Stunt, but you must be nearby to revive your ally and they're helpless until you do.
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On Your Feet, Soldier! (Presence): When an ally is hit with a mental or social attack that threatens to take them out, you may spend a Fate Point and roll Presence. You may have your roll replace their defense roll or add it to their armour. Either way, if your ally then avoids being taken out they're temporarily incapacitated. They recover when you spend an action giving them an impromptu inspirational speech. You don't need to be present to use the first part of this Stunt, but you must be nearby to revive your ally and they're helpless until you do.
This is a neat way of doing it. It essentially lets you avoid a Take Out before it happens...even though it already happened.
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That's a bit complicated and doesn't really fit the flavor I'm going for with the stunts.
It's like in an action movie, where the hero gets the crap kicked out of him, then something makes him push himself back up and he seems refreshed -- think the end of Mission: Impossible 3, or Commando after Arnie's been shot, then comes out ready for a knife fight. In those cases, the hero doesn't suddenly drop with a bunch of extra injuries afterward. It's the equivalent of taking a moment to catch their breath and come out fresh.
In game terms most action movie heroes have Inhuman(at least) Toughness and Recovery.
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Yeah, but as Billy pointed out in OW, this ain't the movies. PCs already have "plot armor" in the form of having longer stress tracks and more consequences they can take. I personally think that there's already enough stunts to buff PCs without having to add to the list, in my opinion.
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I personally think that there's already enough stunts to buff PCs without having to add to the list, in my opinion.
Custom stunts are the name of the game. Discounting another one that does something the others don't, because there are others to begin with, is kind of a strange thought process.
That said, I'm not a fan of clearing stress mid-scene. I do like Sanctaphrax's solution to avoid take-outs, but I think I might limit it even further to "once per session."
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The big drawback to a stunt that only works on take outs is that it only works on take outs. What I mean by that is, unless you make a habit of fighting with weaker allied NPCs, I don't see it coming up often. It's probably a refresh better spent elsewhere.
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I personally think that there's already enough stunts to buff PCs without having to add to the list, in my opinion.
To quote Your Story, page 149: "this is absolutely not intended to be a comprehensive list. When you don't find something here that suits you, use the guidelines above (page 147) to grow your own."
It really makes the game worse, in my opinion, if you don't. Stunts from the example list often don't quite fit the characters they're put on, and there's a lot of stuff they don't cover at all.
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To quote Your Story, page 149: "this is absolutely not intended to be a comprehensive list. When you don't find something here that suits you, use the guidelines above (page 147) to grow your own."
It really makes the game worse, in my opinion, if you don't. Stunts from the example list often don't quite fit the characters they're put on, and there's a lot of stuff they don't cover at all.
Allow me to clairfy. I'm actually referring to the dozens of stunts available on the DFRPG resource page. It was not my intention to suggest that only the stunts from the rule-books be used or applied, nor would I ever suggest that customized stunts be disallowed from the game. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. ;D
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That's certainly more workable because it gives a lot more choice, but I'd hate to think that us coming up with all those Stunts denied other people the chance to do the same.
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Because I've just gotten it, I thought I'd suggest this here as well.
Venture City (Part of the Fate More Kickstarter, see the appropriate thread) has a few interesting ways to clear stress. For example as part of "Special Effects". In Fate Core, there is an outcome called "Success with Style". It happens when you succeed with 3 or more shifts over your target. In Venture City, when that happens, you can activate one of your Superpowers special effects. Among those is "clear your physical stress track".
There's also a direct healing power as well. I would probably not want to use that in a Dresden Setting, but YMMV.