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Messages - Mr. Death

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2851
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: February 01, 2012, 04:38:28 AM »
Well, yeah, that's the main advantage. I'm just trying to figure out the game mechanics for what should also be a logical advantage.

2852
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: February 01, 2012, 04:07:32 AM »
Hm...Would it make sense to, instead of offering up an aspect tag on that freebie the grapple offers for the +2 to hit, let someone tag it for the effect of not letting the target defend with one particular skill? Going back to the speedster example, if you've grappled him in the hopes of holding him down long enough to hit him, could you have the grappler put a temporary aspect like ARM LOCK or HEADLOCK and have the punch-thrower tag it to say that he couldn't use his Athletics to dodge that one attack, but instead had to use Fists or some other applicable skill, rationalizing it with, "Well, I'm holding him down, so he can't sprint or backflip out of the way"?

Because that +2 on the temp aspect can be done a lot easier and quicker without grappling in the first place--why A. create a temp aspect, B. tag it for the grapple, and C. put on another temp aspect to tag--and risk the target breaking the grapple anyway--when you can just go A. create a temp aspect, B. have your buddy tag that to punch?

2853
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: February 01, 2012, 01:23:12 AM »
I didn't say they wouldn't get to roll defense, or that the defense would automatically fail, just that the grapple would reduce the defense (someone rolling at 7 to defend while under a 4 strength grapple would effectively be rolling from 3 instead).

Or maybe treat it like an Ambush with an aspect tagged or invoked? As he's attacked, the grapplee gets one last chance to break the grapple block (similar to that last chance to avoid the ambush)--if it fails, he's rolling from 0, if he succeeds, roll defense normally?

@Sanctaphrax: I meant if you're just using Might to break out of the grapple--as in, that's the action itself. If you break the grapple with a maneuver aimed at producing KNOCKED FLAT, then you produce that maneuver, and can probably tag that in a subsequent turn to establish a grapple, but not turn it directly into a grapple that turn. Though I suppose it'd be kosher if the player with that stunt can replace the maneuver with the grapple, if the GM says so.

2854
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: January 31, 2012, 01:16:06 PM »
Weak attacks can rack up stress that slowly whittles away an attacker - this is something I did recently, where I eventually just ran my opponent out of stress boxes entirely - we both had strong defenses, but I didn't have strong attacks.  Weak spells can set up maneuvers (eventually leading to strong spells) or whittle away at opponents with attacks.  Weak blocks just do nothing.  And personally, I'd really prefer a game system where you aren't limited to just the tactic you're best at, and where non-combat characters can still make small but useful contributions if they do end up in a fight.  Maneuvers are one option for this sort of thing.  I would prefer for blocks to be another.
Apologies, I meant a weak attack roll. As in, if you can't reliably get past a defense to cause those shifts in the first place.

And I agree with Sinker, I think: A block would set a difficulty of something that normally wouldn't, and affect the outcome.

My question is, does this count for defenses? Like, if you've grappled a speedster (Let's say, Athletics at 5 with Supernatural Speed) specifically so that an ally can gank him while he's pinned down. Now, in my mind, if you've got, say, a 4 strength grapple on him, should he really get the full benefit of his 7 dodge roll? It makes more sense to me to apply the block as a penalty to that as well--he'd still get the dodge roll, it'd just be reduced because of the block. (Thinking of, say, Goku and Piccolo vs. Raditz here).

2855
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: January 31, 2012, 04:17:11 AM »
That page only talks about him controlling the spell--it doesn't mean that the block wouldn't apply to the damage roll. It could be that if Harry rolls a 5 in that example, against the 5 block, he controls the spell perfectly, but the block still acts to block the attack, meaning the thug only takes the weapon stress.

And yeah, weak blocks are useless--and so are weak attacks. Or weak spells. It only makes sense to me that you'd typically try a tactic if you're good at it, so why should grappling be different?

@Mr. Death: Wasn't talking to you. Sorry for the vagueness. For what it's worth, I like your idea. But I'd need to see the stunt actually written before passing judgement.
How about:
Judo Master: You are a master of body position, and are good at turning your foe's tactics against him. When using Might to successfully break a grapple, you may perform a reversal and establish your own grapple equal in strength to the number of shifts gained when breaking the initial grapple.

2856
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: January 31, 2012, 03:09:40 AM »
I would argue it should need a stunt, because reversing a grapple isn't something you'd necessarily be able to pull off as easily as establishing one. Anyone can just wrap their arms around someone and hold tight, but it takes some skill and technique to not just break a hold but to turn it around on your opponent. Plus, as mentioned, to establish a grapple you're supposed to invoke or tag an aspect--having a stunt effectively takes the place of that.

2857
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: January 31, 2012, 02:29:28 AM »
The problem is that a block with low strength is essentially nonexistent.
That was kind of my point: The stunt would give the guy breaking the grapple options--if he rolls well, but not too well, he can elect to simply break the grapple entirely. If he rolls really well, or his opponent botches his own grapple roll, it'd be like in a wrestling match where someone's weight shifts just the right way, allowing the advantage to shift substantially. It happens quite often in wrestling (I mean, college/high school, not WWE).

Quote
Also, blocks are never defended against under normal circumstances. They are established, then people try to break them. So where a block normally replaces a defence roll, against a block it creates one (the way you read the rules, at least).

This is a bit of a problem.
I see it differently, and I think that's why the stunt is necessary. I mean, Riposte lets you reverse an attack, which is normally impossible, so why not reverse a grapple with a stunt?

2858
DFRPG / Re: Removing Stunts for Refresh / Powers
« on: January 31, 2012, 02:21:47 AM »
I think it's fine to get rid of a Mortal stunt, particularly if it becomes redundant. For example, one player in a game I'm in has Takes One To Know One, so his character can use Deceit instead of Empathy to detect lies. Eventually, he plans to boost Empathy once he's got a couple more skill points to spend, at which point the skills will be equal, making the stunt effectively wasted space.

2859
DFRPG / Re: Grapple Houserule/possible clarification
« on: January 31, 2012, 02:13:52 AM »
I think the Stunt idea makes the most sense--think of it like Riposte. Make reversing the grapple an option when trying to break it, but only if you have that stunt. The grapplee might roll a 5 against the guy's 4 and only get a block of 1--or he might get lucky and roll an 8. Or the grappler might blow a roll to renew the block and the grapplee then sees an opportunity to break it and turn the tables.

Point being, if you roll just barely enough to break the grapple, you can just do that instead of creating your own weak block. If any of you guys have wrestled, this makes sense.

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