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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: SunJester on September 06, 2012, 06:16:42 PM
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My group is getting ready to start a Dresden game after having played through a couple of the case files. One of my characters likes the flexibility that modular abilities will give him. We have not yet settled on a power level for the game, but if we play "feet in the water" he is thinking about modular abilities [-4] giving him 2 points of abilities to play with and two refresh. He has primarily come up with the concept based on the description of the power as opposed to coming up with a character concept and then trying to determine how to model that using the system. One of the reasons for this is that he hasn't read the Dresden novels (which is true of over 50% of my gaming group.) I have been trying to come up with concepts that seem to support this power selection. We have talked about a scion of Proteus (Greek shapechanging water diety) and a few other options.
All of that to ask, what has been your experience or what is your opinion on modular abilities without having an associated power of true shapeshifting? It seems reasonable to me, particularly to take powers such as speed, strength, or toughness where shapeshifting of the body would not be required. But is it reasonable to take powers like claws, wings, diminutive, hulking size, etc. without also having true shapeshifting? The description of modular abilities would seem to indicate that it is appropriate based on the first sentence, "You may shapeshift your form to take on a variety of abilities..."
The second question is about the range of powers that should be available from modular abilities. My player was of the opinion that the groups of powers listed in the description should all be fair game while my thought is that it would be restricted by the character concept. As a specific example, he thought that Cloak of Shadows was appropriate since it was a Minor Ability. On the other hand, I don't see anything in the mythology of Proteus that would indicate that Cloak of Shadows is reasonable for his scion, however, I am wondering about a Water Form option similar to the Gaseous Form that the Black Court have at their disposal.
I know that the rules are flexible and each group owns their own game, but I wanted to get some feedback from some people experienced with the system. Thanks in advance.
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I would find it quite reasonable in theory for some character concepts to have Modular Abilities without True Shapeshifting.
They do entirely different things mechanically to represent the narrative act of transforming one's body to suit one's current needs.
Consider the difference between True Shapeshifting and Modular abilities through the lense of Harry's introduction to the Alphas:
Bob explains that, early in the career of a shapeshifter, they are likely to find themselves reasonably competent at changing their physical form, but not to have developed the skills necessary to change the workings of their own mind in their shifted form.
Mechanically, for a werewolf, that would likely mean that they have most of the powers of their template, but not Beast Change. The use of Human Form represents the visual change between a human body and that of a wolf, and the absence of Beast Change represents the fact that their mind does not take on the instincts and aptitudes of a wolf.
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Speed, Strength, Toughness, and Creature features are all fair game. The text says "certain Modular Abilities" which means you're free to restrict them. You and the player should discuss what's off limits before play, but the player doesn't get access to all of them.
He changes shape, but is still recognizable as himself. If he grows wings, he just grows wings. He doesn't turn into a bird. If he gets claws, that doesn't mean he looks like a tiger. He could grow or shrink, he could become more muscular, or grow gills. But he'd still mostly look like him.
Also note: It says "focusing on" when talking about the abilities granted. This is there to give wiggle room for things which fit the character concept but aren't on those lists. I would strongly caution against ever allowing Spellcasting.
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It actually works quite good for a few points to spend. I don't know how it looks if you have a lot of modular points to play with.
In my pbp game, there is one character who is a government agent who has a few magical trinkets assigned to him. We handle those as modular abilities linked to item of power. That means he has a small stash of items, where he can only use one at a time, and he can change that whenever he has access to his stash. He's got, for example, a magnifying glass with the Psychometry power.
I've made another suggestion of what you could do with the power here:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,33807.msg1573129.html#msg1573129
There was also another thread with a deck of playing cards, where each card had it's own set of powers attributed to it.
I also had planned a wizard once, who was able to channel the form of the elements he mastered to a degree, where he became the element in question. I used modular abilities, too, and he would buy his spellcasting abilities from the modular points, as well as the powers for the elemental forms. However, those elemental forms are fixed, depending on the element he chooses.
Generally, I would not allow him access to every power simply because he can pay for it with his modular points. This is a power that needs a strong concept around it, and this concept usually limits the powers he can take quite a bit. You should work out a list of powers for him to choose from, depending on the way he wants to manifest this power.
Although it is not really a good idea to work backwards from the powers. It kind of feels like he doesn't want to choose a concept, so he goes for "all of the above", which will probably not end well.
Modular abilities does not suit Proteus very well, I think. Maybe something halfway between beast form and true shapeshifting. Aquatic Form for [-2], where he can only change into aquatic animals. Add to that some of the inhuman powers and the aquatic power, attached to human form, and you're good to go, no need for modular abilities.
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All of that to ask, what has been your experience or what is your opinion on modular abilities without having an associated power of true shapeshifting?
Fine by me. Never had a player do it as far as I recall, but I don't see why it'd be a problem.
The second question is about the range of powers that should be available from modular abilities.
The rules provide only minimal guidance here. Work it out with your player, and bear in mind that all concepts should give an equally-powerful list of allowable Powers and Stunts.
Also: being able to switch between Powers that are useful in different situations is better than being able to switch between Powers useful in the same situation. Being able to choose between Evocation and Thaumaturgy is about as good as having both Evocation and Thaumaturgy at the same time, while being able to choose between Strength and Channelling is honestly pretty lame.
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I once played a scion of a Rakshasa that had Modular Abilities without shape-shifting. My GM ruled that any power other than Wings that could reasonably be used by a mundane creature with the right anatomy was fair game (so, claws, spider climb, a custom Frog Leap power we wrote, etc.) as well as the "big 4" (speed, strength, toughness, recovery), but that anything involving psychic powers or spellcasting was off-limits. I combined this with a high Athletics, Fists, and Might score to be able to deal with just about any mundane physical obstacle easily, but I still couldn't do things the party spellcaster or more specialized physical builds could.
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I used something like this to model a "Spirit Warrior" concept (if you know League of Legends, it was kind of like Udyr). The concept was a Native American Shaman who channeled different animal spirits to boost their powers. It was an 8 refresh game and I spent 7 on Modular abilities. The way I handled it was by stating out several sets of powers, corresponding to each spirit, before hand.
I think I had
Bear: Inhuman Strength, Toughness, and Claws. Basic tanky combat form.
Spider: Incite Effect (web) at Range, Venomus Claws (without the Claws, so only -2), Spider Walk. Secondary combat form, great for support via Web maneuvers/blocks.
Raven: Wings (these were concepted as shimmering spirit raven wings, not actuallygrowing wings), Inhuman Speed, The Sight (this may have been 3 eyed raven Game of Thrones influenced), Cloak of Shadows. This was likely the best form as it was perfect for scouting everything.
Coyote: World Walker, Demesne, a 2 cost home-brew power we had related to dreaming (in the Wheel of Time sense, this includes predictions and talking to people in their dreams). This was a cross between the concept of a spirit guide/spirit animal (which we chose Coyote for because of a Simpson's episode), and the Wheel of Time dreamer/dream world, where you shape things with your mind and damage becomes real. I don't think it saw much use.
We ruled that changing around the configuration was at least one full action (with no supplemental action allowed).
This character was fairly strong, as it was capable in combat as a support or as a tanky brawler, and had several other strong non-combat uses. I dont think it was too strong as it only had 5 refresh to spend on any one roll, with only 1 refresh level for fate points. It was weaker at any one thing compared to a character really specced out for it. Also, it has a sort of multi skill dependence since you need good fists (which was what incite effect was linked to, as a natural "weapon" of the spider) for spider and bear, good athletics/discipline/lore for raven, good discipline for coyote, and good might/endurance to make the best use of the other bear benefits. Since these did not come with beast change/true shape-shifting, it meant some forms were less optimal than others.
I hope that helps/maybe give you some ideas. I would certainly require that any character with modular abilities pre-define what sets of powers he can take and judge before the game if they are kosher. That is not to say that if he comes up with a great idea in game you should not allow it after the fact, but it will at least give you the option to disallow it if you feel it is necessary for any reason.
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I do t have much experience with the modular powers to be honest. Though I would personally be a bit concerned about your players mentality on character creation.
I always always tell my players to come up with an interesting concept first, work on the backstory and aspect, then figure out powers as the very last thing. Trying to shoe horn a concept around a power usually results in a character the player doesn't care much about and gets bored with quick.
Also I've never had much of an issue with players not familiar with the source material creating characters. I would suggest letting them come up with something and making suggestions to them to fit it into the Dresdenverse.
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Modular abilities, to my understanding, has no requirement that other shapeshifting powers be owned. That is, there are no other powers listed as 'musts'. Instead, Modular Abilities is in itself a shapeshifting power. When used, "You may shapeshift your form to take on a variety of abilities".
On the one hand, this doesn't allow you to change into completely different shapes -- if you use it to gain flight, you become yourself with wings, not a bird. If you want to look like a bird then you need something like Beast Change or True Shapeshifting. On the other hand, any function you gain does change what you look like in some way -- if you gain Inhuman Strength, then you will look noticeably more bulky. If you don't want the changes to be obvious, you need something like Human Guise or Flesh Mask.
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I personally wouldn't allow full Evocation or Thaumaturgy - those imply a level of knowledge that simply shifting your form won't give you. Actually, without some good justification, like being possessed by a demon (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,33446.30.html), I wouldn't really allow spellcasting under Modular abilities.
As others said, changing your powers would probably change your form, although Human Guise might be a useful power in these situations.
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I personally wouldn't allow full Evocation or Thaumaturgy - those imply a level of knowledge that simply shifting your form won't give you.
Knowledge is covered by the skills which limit casting. Gaining evocation isn't going to increase those...don't see why you couldn't use whatever you do know if you gain the ability.
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Knowledge is covered by the skills which limit casting. Gaining evocation isn't going to increase those...don't see why you couldn't use whatever you do know if you gain the ability.
I don't think I would allow it either to be honest. To get evo and thaum with modular, it means you're playing a 9 refresh game minimum. This gives you more than enough points to put 3 in the main casting skills, say a 5 in fists, and 4 athletics.
This let's you do respectable spell damage, blow through your mental track, then flip to your inhuman strength, speed, and toughness to start crushing skulls. Add 1 refresh and you take a fast transformation stunt and you have a high damage brute that has zero resources to manage and can do all the normal out of combat abilities that magic and super strength offer.
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Modular Thaumaturgy is very likely to be overpowered.
Modular Evocation, however, isn't all that hot. JDK's example guy is tossing out roughly 4-shift evocations. Not very impressive.
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Modular Thaumaturgy is very likely to be overpowered.
Modular Evocation, however, isn't all that hot. JDK's example guy is tossing out roughly 4-shift evocations. Not very impressive.
admittedly I forgot to factor in that someone with modular evo wouldn't have any focus items at all. Initially I was thinking you could just overclock your shifts of power for 2 or 3 exchanges, doing about 6-7 shifts an action. But with no foci, backlash and fallout would become a huge issue.
We are in agreent on thaum though. It's typically not very difficult for a group of players to come up with the lore to complexity difference with declairations if they are clever.
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For my own writing I have a magic system where magic element is determined by personality and repeatedly reference a guy with Dissociative Identity Disorder that skipped between powers depending on his personality. That could be fun with a Dresden CHaracter too.
Spend 4 refresh on modular powers and say that at the beginning of the scene the player has to choose what type of channeling/ritual they know at a given time(and preset what each personality has.) All the RP possibilities too.
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Modular Thaumaturgy is very likely to be overpowered.
Modular Evocation, however, isn't all that hot. JDK's example guy is tossing out roughly 4-shift evocations. Not very impressive.
Seems unimpressive until you look at it this way.
Dresden started off casting 4 shift spells. He likely only had 7 refresh starting out. It worked for him and he had less to fall back on.
Guns are often less than weapon 4. Evocation can allow satisfying catches of ( 5 elements and magic in general). Evocation doesn't technically have a range listed otehr than an implied line of sight. You can add wings or speed/toughness to the combination allowing great defenses while spellcasting. Then after you go through 4 stresses, switch to beating face.
Mechanically it likely wouldn't be a big deal early on. Later on....it can only get worse/better depending on which side of the spells you're on.
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For my own writing I have a magic system where magic element is determined by personality and repeatedly reference a guy with Dissociative Identity Disorder that skipped between powers depending on his personality. That could be fun with a Dresden CHaracter too.
Spend 4 refresh on modular powers and say that at the beginning of the scene the player has to choose what type of channeling/ritual they know at a given time(and preset what each personality has.) All the RP possibilities too.
I'd be more than a little tempted to rule that this doesn't require modular powers (as a house rule). Instead, just buy "Channeling(GM's choice)", and define your high concept as appropriate. When this becomes a liability, the character gets the benefit of a compel -- or could buy off the compel to force his "round" personality into the "square" hole...
Note: most of the time, having the GM pick the element shouldn't count as a compel, because when it comes down to it, attacking with a force-based spirit attack instead of a fire attack has little game impact. It's largely when you, for example, fight that water elementals who are immune to water attacks where it becomes a liability.
Note 2: It would probably make sense to disallow rotes for the character; this would also provide a counterweight to the slight advantage of being able to spend a Fate point to gain flexibility in element choice.
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Seems unimpressive until you look at it this way.
Dresden started off casting 4 shift spells. He likely only had 7 refresh starting out. It worked for him and he had less to fall back on.
Guns are often less than weapon 4. Evocation can allow satisfying catches of ( 5 elements and magic in general). Evocation doesn't technically have a range listed otehr than an implied line of sight. You can add wings or speed/toughness to the combination allowing great defenses while spellcasting. Then after you go through 4 stresses, switch to beating face.
Mechanically it likely wouldn't be a big deal early on. Later on....it can only get worse/better depending on which side of the spells you're on.
I'd rather just have Potent Ranged Natural Weaponry. Just as much Catch-satisfaction and roughly the same weapon rating for no stress cost. Range is shorter, but most fights take place in small enough areas that it will rarely matter. And you can't go nova, but I think that the opportunity to use your best skill instead of a couple of okay ones is worth it.
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How exactly does Mod Abilites work when utilzing Toughness/Recovery Powers since they in themselves have a must for "Catch"? Does a selected catch work towards your form points? or is it just considered a 0 point? Do you even need to select a catch? Also if you choose a toughness/recovery power outside of your form pool, then any associated catches would apply to form pool abilites right?
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I've always worked on the assumption that you pay for the combined cost of your toughness/recovery and Catch powers with your form points.
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The note at the bottom of page 185 of Your Story ought to answer your question.
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Well dang i missed that blurb on pg 185. I was looking around the modular ability page.
thanks for pointin that out!
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Thanks all for your input. I haven't been posting, but I have been following the discussion with interest. Sadly, the player has since decided that he isn't going to go with a modular powers type of character.
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There is a modular abilities, non-shapeshifter character in my current game.
I'm the Storyteller. One of my players loves the intricate characters I often come up with. When I told him I was running a Dresden game (he hadn't read the series yet, but has now) he gave me a "normal guy" character and then told me to "surprise him" and design powers for the guy; slowly revealing them to him during the game.
I went with a man who was "inspired" by the classical Greek muses. Depending on which muse is inspiring him at any given time, he has a different set of powers. He started play with three different muses that he got to know over the first four or so sessions, and he has started to meet more non-classic Greek ones since.
As his refresh goes up, I expect to expand upon it by allowing him to either have multiple muses at once (his combination choice) or allow the muses to grant greater benefits.
He's loving it so far.
I can't wait until we get to the spirits/ghosts storyline I'm working on and his muses become directly threatened or involved! Holy Emergent Story Hooks, Batman!
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In our Emerald City game we have a character who is a martial arts master who uses Modular Abilities to represent his Ki Powers. It has worked out pretty well. He mostly uses Cloak of Shadows and Spider-walk for stealth situations, Inhuman Strength, Toughness and Speed for combat sometimes enhanced by Claws. Although he rarely uses the later because he caries a Weapon of Power as a badge of his station as the defender of the Eastern Temple.
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In our Emerald City game we have a character who is a martial arts master who uses Modular Abilities to represent his Ki Powers. It has worked out pretty well. He mostly uses Cloak of Shadows and Spider-walk for stealth situations, Inhuman Strength, Toughness and Speed for combat sometimes enhanced by Claws. Although he rarely uses the later because he caries a Weapon of Power as a badge of his station as the defender of the Eastern Temple.
Oh, I have got to say, I like the idea of modular abilities representing different focusing of ki. That's smart. Even though he has decided against this concept, I have to pass that along. It might convince him to change his mind. Thanks!