If you use a thesaurus it will become clear. The Fae and in particular Mab take advantage of a knowledge mismatch, what they know and what you  think you know. The perfect example of this happens in Small Favor when Mab makes Dresden her Emissary before asking him to be one. He thinks he can say no without understanding the cost.  This is a knowledge mismatch.  She knows Titania is out to murder him.  This is also a form or coercion. The lie is letting him believe that he has a choice.

Harry knew he had no choice. Mab called in a Favor. Mab also TOLD him Summer's agents were after him. She TOLD him that SHE was not the danger he had been warned of - that someone ELSE (Gruffs) were coming.

Mab actually was pretty up front. She wanted essentially a PI. Talked of his talent for finding things. Called in her marker. She told him about Titania's agents - granted, his survival further's Mab's cause, as dead men find no kidnapees.  More than coerced, I'd say she used her leverage.   

Knowledge mismatch? Happens all the time. If we sit down to a game of chess, and FIDE rates you at 1200 and me at 2200, there is a knowledge mismatch. They basically say i can sit there and guzzle Jack Daniels from the bottle and still I am expected to win. Nothing dishonest about it.

Winter Law is whatever Mab says it is.  And it applies only when she wants it to and then only to the Fae and not the rest. She let the Hobs loose in the train station and I'm pretty sure that most of the dead wouldn't have known or ever heard of Mab. When Lea got uppity during Dead Beat Mab took the Atheme and tortured her until she saw the error of her ways. Not an equal exchange in my book. And that can't lie thing apparently only works on the Queens on some schedule that I can't discern. The rest of her court is composed of Fae keeping busy by knifing each other and plotting for personal gain. A plot is by definition a lie.

I tend to think there is some underpinnings of Winter Law beyond simply what Mab says it is. Faerie Law is not just Winter.  As noted, Mab kept obligations/favors, which seems to be a Faerie law beyond her realm. Guest rite is too - even the Erlking follows that. So does Summer. Summer rewarded Morgan and Harry with a boon each. And Harry sold his for a donut. And it worked.

And a plot is NOT a lie by definition. A plot does not need to involve a lie at all. It may. It may involve deception or subterfuge, which are NOT lies.  Wouldn't you call Titania giving Harry a pin with Fae GPS in it plotting? She did it for future use, as she did with Morgan. Where was the lie? She never SAID she could always track it.  She told Morgan they could not track HIM. They didn't. They tracked the pin. 

And promises can be twisted. You can give someone something they asked for in a way they did not want. If, say, Rudolph was pursued now by a supernatural being, and ran into Harry and asked Harry to get him to safety - well if Harry tossed his ass in a Demonreach cell, that's pretty safe now, isn't it?  Lea considered leaving Harry a hound to keep him safe. i doubt that's what his mom would have wanted.

The language is FAR from decisive, it's true.
But Harry *IS* Chicago's resident Warden.  I'm pretty sure he'd know if the kid was a local.  And the exchange in Chapter two strongly implies that Harry thinks (and Eb confirms) that the shitshow was brought to Chicago for Harry's sake.

There are millions in the Chicago area. He's not going to know everyone.

It would be just the Merlin's style to make a spectacle over the event since the kid was from Chicago and make Harry go. Harry's seen the reports and other stuff, i have to imagine if the kid was not FROM Chicago that he would say something, asking why he is executed here, instead of where the crimes were, or maybe Edinburgh. Then again, headless bodies likely create less fuss in Chicago than most places. Most warlocks are likely investigated and convicted in chambers without them even knowing they were tried, and the Warden sent out to give them a short haircut. Likely explain it as gang warfare. Ms-13?

Quote

Priscellie: Did his (Kemmler) wardenship end when he was killed after WWII?

Jim: It ended during one of the times they killed him. Kemmler got killed a bunch of times. He was one of those fun villains who just kept getting back up again just kept Napoleoning his way back into being a problem for the white council.

Sounds like more Mantle proof to me...

Mantles don't make you immortal or bring you back. See Aurora,  Maeve, Lily, and Ron Reuel. Some of the necromancers can at least temporarily bring you back, like Kumori. And she does not appear to be Cowl's equal.

The key seems to have been be weaker than Mab to stay in the mortal world. Being immortal is just an added bonus of great power. Sort of if u reach a certain level of magic power. Boom u are immortal. Strength of a river is young to his kin yet 1000s old. I think the more magic you have the less mortal u are. Wizards seem tk grow more powerful in magic as they age and they reach 300s. Irvine was young but as strong as harry. He doesn't get sick etc. May is ur really strong u get immortality has a side effect

Are we that sure Vadderung is weaker than Mab? He has a lower rank in Winter, yes, but it also seems it is a part time gig.

Irwin is strong because he is only half human. He gets his size and strength from his Bigfoot heritage. We have no reason to think bigfoots immortal. Possibly just long lived. There are trees thousands of years old.

Harry did ice magic before, yes... But iirc before he became Winter Knight his ice was always a product of him performing his old fuego spell. He had water, from which he took the energy to fuel his fire, letting a huge flame go up in the sky, thus turning the water to ice.As Winter Knight he somehow simply creates ice, or so it seems. There is no exothermic energy released in form of fire, no water surface needed.

Also the ice below the pursuing fetch. I think all wizards can probably do all sorts of magic, but are not GOOD at many forms. Harry did veils before Molly, but wasn't very GOOD at them, though he got better when he analyzed the practice a bit. Now, maybe he funnels ice from elsewhere - the cold of, say, frozen gas giants  - the chill of Jupiter. Maybe he can link to Mouse's ice world - Mouse was an ice demon, right? Mouse cheats by living with a wizard - he channels his power source thru Harry.   

I think of it in a gaming sense like each school (fire, ice, earth, mind) is different. Harry was level 14 fire, 2 in ice, 1 in the others. Really nasty at one. But say the Knight mantle confers 10 levels in the right school. Fix is now level 10. But Harry WAS a 2, so now he is a 12. So he is nearly as good with ice as he is fire, so he has options.


 You and a buddy have to kill 2 men at 50 yards. You have 2 rifles, and 2 compound bows. You've never fired either. You reach for a rifle. Your buddy never fired a gun, but he's a bowhunter. he reaches for his familiar weapon, the bow. It's not AS good, given equal skills, but with his greater bow skill, he thinks he will be better with it. Harry is the bowhunter, fire is the bow. He was good with it, so he uses it when another skill might work better - but it is a skill he does not have. 

And also no soulfire.

No, that's mine. I note fire is usually a destructive force, Harry mentions that is why wizards use it. Ice can be made into things - sculptures, igloos, etc. My idea was Harry might be able to imbue an ice structure with Soulfire to reinforce his shield temporarily. Sort of the ice is Kevlar - the Soulfire is the armor in your plate carrier, because Kevlar doesn't stop that .30-06.  So some small critical area is reinforced

Maybe he was always able to do that and just because he is the knight now, makes him believe he must be able to create ice, so he can.
Just like he believes to be able to create fire.

I don't think he CREATES. I think he CHANNELS. Like Binder, calling forth the Gray Men. He calls ectoplasm from Nevernever, he does not create matter.  Fire? The Sun's corona ? or even plasma if you are good enough.  Cold? South Pole? Mouse's ice world?

Carlos for example is said to have an affinity to water magic. Does that mean he can create water? We never see him do more water magic than his disintegrating shield. But this I think removes water, instead of adding.

maybe that is what made the frictionless dust in the deeps duel? He yanked water out?

There is a WOJ that Odin traded his immortality to be able to continue to operate in the mortal world, and took on the Kringle Mantle to regain immortality.

I wonder actually if Odin’s immortality went into the Kringle Mantle. It’s the kind of sneaky thing he would do. Trade in his immortality as a huge sacrifice to be rewarded with the Mantle. I think KrIngle must have a partial intellectus, he knows whether everyone has been naughty or nice I.e. he has knowledge of a persons good and bad deeds, at least over the last year. That would be consistent with the lore and  the use of intellectus in the Files. For someone in the Security Business that would be nice. He doesn’t need to vet people. If so he would have known immediately about Marcone picking up the coin. That would suggest he is keeping close to Marcone for that reason, and is doing the same now with Lara.

Or HE is the one being used.  He wants to run around Earth? "Then you have to do this job for Me"  - it's not Mab's duty to give out gifts. and then be given the intellectus to be able to do the job.

Everyone at the level of immortal is generally prohibited from living in the Mortal World the exceptions being the Queens, Ladies and Kringle (the Mothers power levels are so great they can’t without warping it). You can give it up, live in the NeverNever, or suffer Demonreach.

Immortality might not be the determining limit. It might be higher. Morgan, when Harry tries to explain intellectus, says Harry's being shot example is a bad one, because most things with intellectus are immortal - so he must know a few. We have no reason to think none are on earth. Really, are even the Queens and Kringle truly immortal? Not at Halloween! And don't we have reference to a semi-immortal shapeshifter that signed the Accords? Heck, if Odin's around, what Norse god was a shapeshifter? Loki....

Now the Erl King is an immortal but the Wild Hunt rides in the mortal world. Did he undertake Vassallage to Mab to permit this? It surprised me in Battle Ground that he was Mab’s Vassal, but there would have to be some reason why he would agree to be so bound.

Maybe the Erlking is a mantle - king of the goblins. Teh giblins are her domain, or have sworn to her for some reason.

The other free- roaming immortals are the Naagloshii, and they are tied to a particular geographical area. If they break that is it Demonreach? There are at least half a dozen in there.

Naagloshi are tough, but I don't think they are immortal. Why did it run from Joe if it was? And Morgan showed one some overwhelming power - if it survived, it seems the kind of creature that would seek revenge and get Morgan over the years.

My thought is that the Ladies Mantles were imbued with just enough power to render their wearers immortal.

  The Ladies are not immortal. We've seen them killed in Nevernever and on Demonreach.

The Angels are immortal but are again subject to restrictions.

the Makers of rules often do not have them apply to Themselves or Their agents. See- Congress.