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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Dom on October 07, 2006, 12:12:54 AM
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Just curious...how dark of a writer do you consider yourself to be?
I just re-read a draft of something of mine, and it just hit me how...subversive it is. It surprised me, and I generally consider myself a fairly dark writer.
So naturally I'm wondering how others rate themselves on the spectrum. :)
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It varies. There is a poem I wrote recently for my poetry class that's sort of dark and monochromatic and switches from mental to physical according to the people in my class. That's the only recent dark thing I can think of besides a fanfic I'm writing on and off on.
Enshadowed thoughts, enshadowed minds,
enshadowed chains, holds, and bindings.
A shadowy room with a darkened lamp,
filled with figures with shadowy hands.
Shadowed blade cuts deep, so deep;
blood - black blood - pools at the shadows feet.
Enshadowed hands clench and shake,
trying vainly to find a shadowed escape.
"Why? WHY?" cries the enshadowed soul,
quaking in confusion and pain in the dark;
but the shadows don't answer, they just close in,
a suffocating presence, oh death-dealing fiends.
Cries in the shadows fail and fade,
only echoes remain and disappear in shame.
Shadowy figures slip away,
leaving behind only a shadowy space.
Black blood dries and cracks at the base
of a shadowy table with an enshadowed frame.
Enshadowed hands hang, limp and useless;
a shadowed form lies still, broken and forgotten.
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It all depends on what I'm writing.
A lot of the time, i write comedic fantasy, why? Because I like to laugh.
But when I'm not doing that, it's not unknown for me to write dark fantasy (by "not unknown" I mean, if it's not comedic, it's usually dark), where I get to feel nice and sick as I write things.
It's always an interesting experience making yourself feel sick from what you're writing. I do it more than not actually, I suppose it doesn't say much for the state of my being, but it's good stuff, even if it is a little bit scary that I come up with it :P
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I don't think I'm really that dark aside from my sense of humor. I just have a taste for angsty, broody men. :P
I always end up writing for the darkest male character I can find. I don't try to, it's just who ends up fitting the best. For example, the character I've been writing for the past few days is one of those people that a lot of days gets up and wonders why he heck he doesn't just climb to the top of a tall building and jump. There's plenty of other characters I could be writing for but he's just the most interesting. *shrug*
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I'm told that my stuff tends to be VERY dark.
I even had someone put it down after the first page and tell me they were to scared to go on. ;D
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My characters tend to ENJOY the deaths of others. In our first book, I wrote a torture scene that was done by the "hero" that my co-author insisted I remove before we submitted it. It gave her nightmares. But she's written (and published) some stuff that gave me the serious creeps, too. So, I guess we're both pretty dark.
Just wait until I finally get a chance to work on the story I REALLY want to write---a dark little Cthulu story that will seriously bother people. I'm aiming for Weird Tales, if it's not too dark for them... ::)
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I think that most writers that think they're dark are just not very versatile. If I ever wrote a book that couldn't be "bright" on minute and "dark" the next, I think I'd throw away my pen forever.
Usually books that are just nonstop pessimism or sadism are just incredibly boring. How many consecutive tortures and deaths can you read before they lose any and all impact? The only time purely dark writing is ever actually disturbing is if there is something twisted about it. Someone getting decapitated with a rusty table saw is not nearly as interesting (or funny) as someone getting decapitated with a rusty tablesaw by Santa Clause while their children watch.
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Terroja, I'm afraid that I must disagree with your comment.
While it's true that nonstop pessimism and sadism do get boring, I wouldn't consider a book full of them to necessarily be "Dark". Not dark, just sick.
Most of the really good dark writing I've read is full of other things as well, love, hate, mercy, slaughter, redemption, downfalls. It's full of things... if you can't feel for the protagonist the story isn't going to be good.
"Dark" writing is a lot more than just sadism. It's a way of telling the story, it's dark and gritty, with horrific elements. That doesn't equate to sadism or angsty-ness though. Sadism is just one of the tools of dark writing. Like any tool it has it's uses and it's tasks, but it cannot do everything, it cannot be everything, there needs to be more.
Now that I've rambled, trying to get my ideas across (although not to my satisfaction) I think I'll stop before I confuse even myself. Hopefully it made some sense, but if not I'm sure i can rant some more quite happily. :P
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I agree with Belial.
Anita Blake is kinda, sorta dark. (I'd call it gritty more then dark; I've never felt Horror of any sort while reading her stuff). The Black Jewels Trilogy is dark. The Kushiel series can be dark, particularly in Kushiel's Avatar, but overall is not. Harry Dresden, to me, has a hint of darkness, but overall is not.
Regardless, I've noticed authors tend to write a...specific "shade" of darkness if you look at their careers overall. Anne McCaffrey, Mercedes Lackey...both are NOT dark authors. For me they're totally on the other side of the spectrum. I get the impression that neither wants to delve into darkness well enough to write any situation or scene or character that is truly dark. Piers Anthony falls here too.
C. S. Friedman, Joan D. Vinge, Robin Hobb are darker authors. They tend to write greyscale, with any particular book being slightly lighter or darker then the others.
Firethorn by Sarah Micklem is dark. Totally. Then again Sarah Micklem has only put out one book.
Robert A. Heinlein is not dark, but he is rather subversive.
It's more the feel of the book, overall, like Belial said.
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"Dark" writing is a lot more than just sadism. It's a way of telling the story, it's dark and gritty, with horrific elements. That doesn't equate to sadism or angsty-ness though.
Unless I misread completely, I believe that was Terroja's point.
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"Dark" writing is a lot more than just sadism. It's a way of telling the story, it's dark and gritty, with horrific elements. That doesn't equate to sadism or angsty-ness though.
Unless I misread completely, I believe that was Terroja's point.
I think he misread.
That's okay. Some people are so interested in listening to themselves talk that they don't bother to pay more than cursory attention to anyone else's words.
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Usually books that are just nonstop pessimism or sadism are just incredibly boring. How many consecutive tortures and deaths can you read before they lose any and all impact? The only time purely dark writing is ever actually disturbing is if there is something twisted about it. Someone getting decapitated with a rusty table saw is not nearly as interesting (or funny) as someone getting decapitated with a rusty tablesaw by Santa Clause while their children watch.
"Dark" writing is a lot more than just sadism. It's a way of telling the story, it's dark and gritty, with horrific elements. That doesn't equate to sadism or angsty-ness though.
Unless I misread completely, I believe that was Terroja's point.
Again, i must respectfully disagree. Terroja equates sadism and pessimism as being "dark". However I have read dark stories that are neither sadistic, nor pessimistic. They are intinsically different things. As I said, sadism and pessimism can be tools towards dark writing, but they are by no means the be all and end all of dark writing.
The difference between what I said and what Terroja said is simply this: Terroja says that completely dark (i.e. all sadism and pessimism) is only interesting with a twist (i.e. his Santa Claus idea). However, I say that sadism and pessimism are one small part of dark writing. He says it's the be all and end all, I say it's a small tool, that writing can be dark without them.
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He's not saying it's the be all end all. He's saying that it is a part of it, but not an entirely necessary part of purely dark writing. There has to be something more. That twist. Which is similar to what you said.
But I could be wrong.
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"If I ever wrote a book that could be "bright" on minute and "dark" the next, I think I'd throw away my pen forever."
*tosses you some Terry Pratchett*
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Terroja equates sadism and pessimism as being "dark".
I did no such thing. I, in fact, said the exact opposite of that. Keep trying though, you might just get something right one of these days.
Mickey: I meant to say couldn't, not could.
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"Usually books that are just nonstop pessimism or sadism are just incredibly boring. How many consecutive tortures and deaths can you read before they lose any and all impact? The only time purely dark writing is ever actually disturbing is if there is something twisted about it."
I may have misinterpreted this, since one idea flowed to the next, I saw no real distinction made between "nonstop pessimism and sadism" and "purely dark writing". If this is the case then I apologize.
However I still uphold the idea that the twist is not necessary to make the story interesting. Dom put it very nicely when he said it's the "feel" of the book that makes a story dark, rather than any actual events per se, which is a large part of what I was trying to get across. Therefore, a book may be written in a purely dark tone even though it includes the elements of love, friendship, etc which are not necessarily considered "dark" elements (although, if it is a tragic love, a friendship betrayed, then I suppose they could be.)
Also, I was talking to a friend of mine, who informed me that I sound like a condescending bastard, which is more or less normal. When I'm constructing my thoughts I tend to take a somewhat lecturing tone, and explain things that may seem simple. I thought I'd let you know that this has nothing to do with condescension, but rather that it helps me get my thoughts onto the paper in a clear manner ;).
*Looks up* Now if only I could get my thoughts on paper in a clear and -concise- manner.
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I think terroja simplified my opinion on dark writing the best when he said, ""If I ever wrote a book that couldn't be "bright" one minute and "dark" the next, I think I'd throw away my pen forever."
The truly "dark" stuff is writing that surprises you by throwing something out there that wasn't expected and makes you want to sick up. Belial, Dumai's Wells is a perfect example. I know you know what I'm talking about.
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Dumai's Wells was childs-play!
You want some real dark stuff that takes you by surprise, try reading the Chronicles of Corum. Great stuff that.
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I would consider myself a dark author I guess. Most of my characters usually have to choose between the lessor of two evils. They could either kill this guy or lets lots of people die. Trade sex for medicine for a sick relative.
My characters also make a lot of dark decisions in the heat of the moment. One character kills another character because he let his daughter die. There were plenty of consequences to this action (this character that he killed was sort of under diplomatic immunity).
I think the darkest story I am ever going to write is set in a post apocalyptic America. It takes a look at some of the current generation of children and how they turned out as adults if they didn't have someone around to care for them.
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I don't think I'm dark, writer or otherwise. I don't want to be dark. I don't like to brood. I don't think it's cool, or enviable. I like to laugh. But there's darkness in everything, isn't there? Else how can we tell the light? I'm not dark, I have darkness in me. it's there. I see it come out at times. But it isn't even the half of me.
8) Profound? er... maybe not.
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I'm pessimistic and cynical by nature.
Whether or not that comes out in the things I write, I'm not real sure. I guess it's tough to define "dark writing", at least in my mind.
I think if any of us could look into our eyes through Harry Dresden's point of view, we'd find all kinds of disturbing things inside us. Everyone has that base, primal, often perverse aspect of their psyche...some of us just repress it and deny our true nature more than others.
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Hello, I am new to this site, but I kinda wanted to jump in on this topic. I am writing a book with a friend, and one of our biggest sticking points is the tone, or how dark we wish the story to be. I personally think that the darkness of a story has less to do with the events, but with the way the events are portrayed. Darkness is just the absence of light, right? Things like George RR Martins "a song of ice and fire" are a good example. The darkness through out those books isn't in anything so much anything the characters do, but the characters themselves, and why they do what they do. Or for example the character if fidelus in the alera books. He is very dark, in his thoughts and motivation, though his actions are no more "dark" than anyother characters.
And if any of you are looking for a great dark toned book, I suggest "ghost in the snow" I will have to search for the authors name, to make sure I am not confusing her with another, but those books are quietly chilling in a way that is hard to describe.
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How dark I write really depends on what I'm writing. I have a few humor pieces which are "light," some horror pieces which are totally dark. Most of what I write though has shades of both, because I try even in fantasy to make sure that there is a certain amount of realism, and life is both light and dark.
For example, Jim has things happen to Harry that are VERY dark, but the humor could be considered to "lighten things up." I mean, how can you not consider "Bolshevik Muppet" a lightening force in that particular scene.
But overall, I'm probably on the darker end of the spectrum.
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I kill a lot of characters but I always go for happy (or at least bittersweet) endings. Weird? Perhaps.
But do you mean dark as in content, or mood?
Content, I'd say I'm a shade darker than medium. I've come up with vampiric immortals, insane warlords, dysfunctional families, rape scenes, and the occasional Electra complex. On the other hand I like offbeat humor, innocent characters, and no random animal violence.
For mood or writing style, I have a hard time being dark. I have a hard time using "dark" prose in order to get something across as "dark". The imagery and content ought to speak for themselves, but that's how I work.