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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: cyst22 on January 03, 2019, 03:25:46 AM
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Something bugged me after reading the Christmas story. 3 powerful beings of fairy visited the Carpenter family home that night. Only 2 should have been able to freely enter with out spoken permission. It is Mols family home she is good. The mantle of Kringle could freely on that night by his normal means (fire place, with a gift). Mab appeared magically, with out spoken permission. That would be not possible in a normal morals home. Let alone one protected by the Heavenly Host. Michael seams like he gets a message, smiles and walks away. He never invites Queen Mab in. She would have Had to Strike a deal with an agent of the WG (most likely Mr. Sunshine) to part the super threshold.
So what might it have cost her??? (or did Jim forget how well he created his worlds rules)
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She is there to harm no-one, and as such is free to enter or leave as she wishes. Much like Cat Sith could sneak around uninvited.
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She is there to harm no-one, and as such is free to enter or leave as she wishes. Much like Cat Sith could sneak around uninvited.
But is that good enough? Mr Gray presumedly wouldn't have harmed anyone either but he declined Harry's invite because he feared the angelic guard... No, I was wondering the same thing about Mab, but then again while she may not be exactly friends with Heaven, they are allies...
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Perhaps Molly invited her , provided her intentions were good.
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Perhaps Molly invited her , provided her intentions were good.
But Gray was invited by Harry and at that point had no bad intentions towards the Carpenter family. Remember Mab telling Harry that her and Uriel sometimes have the same goals? I think it more that than Molly inviting her..
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It's a rule specific to the fae, as detailed explicitly by Cait Sith in Cold Days.
If the Fae means and does no harm, he or she can enter without an invitation.
Mab means no harm, she is fae, so she can enter without an invitation.
What's the confusion here?
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But Gray was invited by Harry and at that point had no bad intentions towards the Carpenter family. Remember Mab telling Harry that her and Uriel sometimes have the same goals? I think it more that than Molly inviting her..
Gray is not fae. He is the scion of an evil being comparable to a fallen angel, a comparison Bob made in turncoat. Other rules apply.
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Gray is not fae. He is the scion of an evil being comparable to a fallen angel, a comparison Bob made in turncoat. Other rules apply.
Not the point, Gray was seen as a threat, doesn't matter who or what his is.. Mab apparently isn't seen as a threat to the Carpenter family.
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Not the point, Gray was seen as a threat, doesn't matter who or what his is.. Mab apparently isn't seen as a threat to the Carpenter family.
It is to the point because Grey was a danger because of what he was. Mab is not a danger in the carpenter house because of what she is. The guardians know that she can not be a threat because she has to behave as a guest. She has to obey the rules of what she is.
Grey is slightly more complicated because he is a scion but that is it.
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Not the point, Gray was seen as a threat, doesn't matter who or what his is.. Mab apparently isn't seen as a threat to the Carpenter family.
Gray didn't want to push things, that doesn't necessarily mean he's a threat. I want to say the cultists got onto the property at Michaels, and yet weren't immediately squashed, so obviously there's certain threats that the Angels will or will not engage.
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Maybe Mab qualified as family, afterall she is Molly's "Mother" at the moment...
seriously though, it's the fae qualification that passed her through the threshold, but I'm sure she had clearance from Uriel to pass the Guard, two different barriers. But it wasn't a surprise, they just didn't show the agreement on screen.
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#1 Harry is Mab's Knight.
#2 did Mab do anything other than appear and talk? I truly don't remember if she interacted physically with anything. She could have been a projection into Harry's mind.
#3 perhaps she got permission from the Guardian Angels to mimic "A Christmas Carol". (Kringle the ghost of Christmas past, Mab the present and Molly the future)
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#1 Harry is Mab's Knight.
#2 did Mab do anything other than appear and talk? I truly don't remember if she interacted physically with anything. She could have been a projection into Harry's mind.
#3 perhaps she got permission from the Guardian Angels to mimic "A Christmas Carol". (Kringle the ghost of Christmas past, Mab the present and Molly the future)
#2 she interacted with Mouse and she physically gave him the present for Maggie.
#3 that's what I said just above, except I'd put Mab as Future, the present was for Maggie and Harry has called her his future, Molly I'd put as the Present as she was dealing with current issues and i agreed with Kringle as the Past.
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Being a skinwalker scion brings spiritual baggage. The power is not neutral or benevolent and Michael immediately had feelings about it. The angels will have that as well and Grey feels threatened by the angelic guard purely because of what they are. Uriel is glad Grey did not try. He was uncomfortable with the situation. I do not think Grey was a threat at that moment, it is purely about what he is.
The Sidhe are different. They are not evil as such and obey a strict set of rules that make them predictable in certain situations especially when they come as guests. There is still a group of cobblers living in Michaels house for example.
Adding to that Uriel and Mab and Uriel and Kringle have dealings with each other, they sometimes work together for common goals, they have a certain understanding of each other. That became very clear in changes but was already visible in small favor where Mab waited until Uriel was finished with Harry to give her speech. And she liked his style.
And so Uriel or another one from above told Michael a spoiler and told him to give Harry some space for his meeting with Kringle or something like that. They work together, they sometimes work a bit against each other when a Sidhe has a claim on a mortal maybe but they are certainly polite about it because as Jim once said they work for the same company only very different departments.
There are also strict rules in place for their interaction. In grave peril for example Michael told Harry that if Harry had a deal with Lea there was not much he could do about it. They have spheres of influence.
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Gray didn't want to push things, that doesn't necessarily mean he's a threat. I want to say the cultists got onto the property at Michaels, and yet weren't immediately squashed, so obviously there's certain threats that the Angels will or will not engage.
Well, the cultists were mortals, and thus engaging in an excersice of Free Will. The Angels can't do anything about that.
/Ulfgeir
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My point is that it's not an issue of Threat or Not Threat. Actual threats (the cultists) were not stopped, while Grey, who was not a threat but may or may not have been considered one, didn't want to push his luck. That doesn't prove much re: Mab being a threat one way or another.
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Something bugged me after reading the Christmas story. 3 powerful beings of fairy visited the Carpenter family home that night. Only 2 should have been able to freely enter with out spoken permission. It is Mols family home she is good. The mantle of Kringle could freely on that night by his normal means (fire place, with a gift). Mab appeared magically, with out spoken permission. That would be not possible in a normal morals home. Let alone one protected by the Heavenly Host. Michael seams like he gets a message, smiles and walks away. He never invites Queen Mab in. She would have Had to Strike a deal with an agent of the WG (most likely Mr. Sunshine) to part the super threshold.
So what might it have cost her??? (or did Jim forget how well he created his worlds rules)
She made a reservation. She had Kringle call Uriel's people and clear the decks so her crew could visit Harry without interruption. She is also an family member by Mantle. Michael tricked Harry into suggesting his own gift. Uriel passed that datum to Kringle who was holding on the hot line waiting for the heads up, so he could bring the right present. And finally Uriel gave Malcolm a Christmas pass for a magic moment. And as usual Harry was the only entity not in the loop. And Michael's kids got cheated.
Otherwise the normal rules apply. Grey isn't human and isn't on the guest list and maybe has history. The cultists were mortals. The Angels are there to protect from supernatural threats.
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psst..."angels"
(sorry, that typo it's a pet peeve of mine)
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psst..."angels"
(sorry, that typo it's a pet peeve of mine)
:-[ corrected.
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Thank you :)
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As said above, as long as Mab swears to continue upholding the laws of hospitality and do no harm to those present, even if she is attacked first, she may cross any threshold. In fact, she was going beyond that. She was "Mrs. Clause" in her mode, delivering a gift to a good worker in her care.
The ring had no direct harm and cost Harry nothing by accepting it. So, it was all good.
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I think she had to have clearance to enter. I don't think just because she was Fae and had to abide by hospitality rules allowed her to bypass angelic guardians. I think there were assurances, understandings made between Mab and Uriel or other angelic representatives.