Yeah, I think if Mother Winter wanted her stick back, she'd get it. Here's a thought, Mother Summer, Mab, and Titania know perfectly well that Eb has it, but are not telling Mother Winter.
Why? Because they have determined that it is most effective where it presently is.
Mother Winter doesn't know where her staff is in the way Harry doesn't know where the eye is. She hasn't looked for it.
Everyone knows Blackstaff McCoy. Unless Mother Winter hasn't heard it. She Knows! Just because she "lost it" past tense doesn't mean it wasn't found and just not recovered. Like when Mab just knows the whole story with few clues... intellectus.
And he has previously been custodian of the sword of Faith and a blackened Denarius at the same time, as well as an original Star Wars poster.
I am not sure the Mothers can properly enter the world without breaking reality, it’s like Ferrovax, he extrudes his human form in, or like Vadderung who has deliberately limited himself.that's... What the mantles are for. To give them another, lesser form that doesn't break reality.
“Well,” he said, “I never been to much school, you understand. But seems to me that you assuming something you shouldn’t assume.”Pretty much out of the Christian playbook. Mathew 10:29. Or omniscience.
“What’s that?” I asked.
“That God sees the world like you do. One thing at a time. From just one spot. Seems to me that He is supposed to be everywhere, know everything.” He put the lid back on the trash can. “Think about that. He knows what you’re feeling, how you’re hurting. Feels my pain, your pain, like it was His own.”
I think the Mothers may have interdimensional counterparts - they are likely usually the Queens moved to semiretirement - and we know Mab was once mortal. So the Queens likely were too, so each dimension can have varying queens, as they came from different mortals. Heck, maybe some dimensions have kings.... Uriel started out an Archangel.archangels and the mother's, per Woj, have only one distinct being that exists simultaneously in every timeline.
The Mothers would certainly exist in all the universes where the Mantles exist, but the Courts and the Mantles are at most a couple of thousand years old, so this would only be a percentage of the Multiverse. Thus whilst there may be one of them, they are the Mothers over that percentage.uhh... The mother's existed pre mantle's, just not in their current identity, identity shaped by belief. MW is likely a beginning of time pillar, as would be the original MS. Creation and destruction are kinda key to reality. They exist, and they always exist in basically every reality. Now, in that reality next door, where Hinduism blew up. They more closely resemble Shiva and Vishnu. But that's a change of beliefs, not if beings.
Talking purely speculatively, why can't it be just one? If there are an infinite number then the game might be over over before it begins. The more gates the more likely that one will fall. The math is fairly simple. So create one place and populate it with an appropriate cast of characters and the go. In that scenario all the Mothers have to keep up with is the Human branches. Since all the fey come from human stock there you go. I suspect angels guarded the border before Humans. Just saying.yea.. and I suspect those galaxies Uriel is capable of destroying (i.e wars he fought on galactic scale), are likely timelines where the wall was going to give out, so he cauterized the wound. Sheared the timeline off. I also wonder if this isn't the balance hell plays in hells bells, they do something to give angels room to act to destroy reality.
yea.. and I suspect those galaxies Uriel is capable of destroying (i.e wars he fought on galactic scale), are likely timelines where the wall was going to give out, so he cauterized the wound. Sheared the timeline off. I also wonder if this isn't the balance hell plays in hells bells, they do something to give angels room to act to destroy reality.
I don't think the Angels need to destroy a reality where Outsiders invade because I think the Outsiders unmake that reality. Empty Night. No more reality. However as we are going to learn from Mirror Mirror, realities are constantly being created. New ones are being born all the time. This is probably why the Outsiders consider them "noisy". They keep multiplying, and the creation of each new reality probably creates some sort of shockwave that the Outsiders sense, or feel.yeah, I usually see it that way, but something in his post made me reconsider, if the point of taking the queens us to get to the mother's, then what they're really looking for is one opening that undoes all reality. If MS(because I kinda assume MW already is, but fights it proactively) became Nemfected, then as a being omnipresent, infected by another being apparently omnipresent then... What? All of MS's fall and ergo All reality? I consider the gates and mother's intrinsically connected, if there's truly only one of them, perhaps there's only one of the other?
I see realities growing exponentially.
(https://vidzhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/parallel-Universe-1024x576.jpg)
archangels and the mother's, per Woj, have only one distinct being that exists simultaneously in every timeline.
I thought it was each dimension had their own set of mothers, but there was one Uriel? I can't find it thougheach has their own queen, who can "talk" between counterparts, but the mother's are singularly unique apparently.
yeah, I usually see it that way, but something in his post made me reconsider, if the point of taking the queens us to get to the mother's, then what they're really looking for is one opening that undoes all reality. If MS(because I kinda assume MW already is, but fights it proactively) became Nemfected, then as a being omnipresent, infected by another being apparently omnipresent then... What?
Mother Winter is the original, Mother Summer is not, the previous stepped down. So a Mother can be replaced. Also when Jim was asked about Nemesis infecting an Angel, he stated that Nemesis isn't some omnipotent Being, It has limits. Leah, who is not remotely on the same level as a Mother was able to resist It, long enough for Mab to help her.🤔 tell me something I don't know? Just because something can be replaced doesn't mean it isn't vital and can't be compromised. Stepping down is much different than becoming a twisted version of oneself. And where as specific things dictate what happens to queen's mantles, we don't know how well mechanismed they are. As you pointed out though, MS isn't the original, this means to me, she isn't pure in formation. How can she be immune to any of the things the courts are vulnerable to when she's the same sort? Nemesis can't effect things that are too absolute, the only thing this specifically applied to was archangels, but it really leaves alot open for interpretation That's a disconnect between host and spiritual entity, how can she be absolute when she's inherited her position and wears it?
I don't believe that Nemesis is capable of taking on something as big as one of the Mothers. It's just not on that level.heh, im thinking when we find out what the outer gates are a metaphor for, that's exactly what they do. Mother's don't have to be too big, nemesis is only dipping a toe in reality itself. An either it took out the 3rd sister of fate, compromised her, or just straight up IS her, but for any of those to have happened she'd have to be directly on par with, or capable of subverting mother level powers... It's already been done once.
I think it's more like they want a foothold, and for mortals to begin worshipping the Old Ones.
An either it took out the 3rd sister of fate
I don't think there was three. I think Jim put his own spin. There are 3 Fates. Mother, Queen, Lady. 3 Fates for Winter, 3 Fates for Summer. If there wasa 3rd Mother, what would she represent? Not a season as the other 2 do. A 3rd Mother would be out of place from the readers perspective. There is a precise balance between Winter and Summer, and a 3rd Mother wouldn't make sense.Nah, I'm not a fan of the Fomor mother idea. The Fates were seen as maiden/mother/crone triple deity. That got split in half to get the six queens we know and love.
EDIT: Unless before they took up Winter, and Summer, there were 3 Mothers, and the 3rd Mother leads the Fomor who Jim did say were defeated by the Sidhe.
I don't think there was three. I think Jim put his own spin. There are 3 Fates. Mother, Queen, Lady. 3 Fates for Winter, 3 Fates for Summer. If there wasa 3rd Mother, what would she represent? Not a season as the other 2 do. A 3rd Mother would be out of place from the readers perspective. There is a precise balance between Winter and Summer, and a 3rd Mother wouldn't make sense.life, fate, all things to come, there's a reason they had to throw her @$$ out when free will came about. Lachesis the spinner, decided fate for everything, in some stories even the Gods Couldn't defy fate.
EDIT: Unless before they took up Winter, and Summer, there were 3 Mothers, and the 3rd Mother leads the Fomor who Jim did say were defeated by the Sidhe.
What is this Woj on Hecate not "splitting up or down"? Context?If I can find it I'll post it. At some point I had the idea that the Mantle had been split vertically, 2 Mothers, 2 Queens and 2 Ladies. Somebody shot me down with a WOJ where Jim says otherwise. I'll try to find it.
If I can find it I'll post it. At some point I had the idea that the Mantle had been split vertically, 2 Mothers, 2 Queens and 2 Ladies. Somebody shot me down with a WOJ where Jim says otherwise. I'll try to find it.
The Mothers are extremely powerful beings, I mean, they’re really really well, you can tell because they hardly ever show up on the real world. In the Dresden Files universe if you don’t show up on the real world, it’s because you’re too big to walk around there. For instance, I think in the third book, when the Dragon is talking about how the Earth couldn’t bear his weight, it’s not that the Earth itself would literally crack, it’s that reality would have issues trying to contain him, because every time he coughs, it would bend around like Neo in the Matrix. So, they spend most of their time NOT on the real world, they spend it hanging around in the Nevernever, all the really heavyweight guys do that. If you’re in the real world, well, the problem is that you’re in the world, and you’re kind of mortal, and something could come along and try and whack you, if they’re fast enough, or good enough, or lucky enough. Which makes Odin a kind of special guy, because he doesn’t mind it, he thinks it’s awesome. But anyway, you can always tell. If there’s folks who don’t show up in the real world, it’s because they’re super big. So, like, an angel shows up, and it’s just sort of a whispered presence that one person is aware of, that’s because he’s just too big to show up here, it’s a giant sandbox, and he’s got to be very very careful to not squash the sandbox. So, he just shows up for that one bit.
The Mothers are immortal, like Mab she couldn’t be killed even with iron. Only the Stone Table which appears to have been set up as part of the Mantles, a deliberate backdoor, could kill them, or on Halloween when all immortals are vulnerable.Mabs not unkillable, she was vulnerable to death when that happened by her own words. An Halloween probably isn't the only confluence either. I confess, I wonder if say, the blackstaff isn't a confluence type being placed into an object. It would fit being deaths scythe.
The Eye might have killed Mab, but I don't think that beheading her with iron would have done it in BG. Her head would have just grown back in enough time. (Minutes? Hours? Months? Hard to say)
"You understand what has happened" Titania replied quietly
"what it Means"
"I expect you to do your duty" Mab said
Titania's expression flickered in pain "When have I not?"
I have a theory that the Eye did kill Mab it's just taking longer. Like a mortal wound infected or a curse.
Mab wasn’t sure of the outcome in BG, if an immortal is not killed then they are dissipated until they re-coalesce. This is what happened with Erl and Odin, but they pulled themselves together quickly, another blast? Perhaps not so quickly, but the Eye had to cycle and there were multiple threats to Ethnui, which was the strategy. We have only been told of two ways of killing Mab, there isn’t a third.
However you are talking gods, Mab isn't exactly a god.. True for the mantle, but put Mab in a blender and pour her out, the only chewable bit left is the mantle, the rest ain't coming back together in my opinion.the way I interpreted it, is a conjunction uncaps the immutability of immortals (even and perhaps especially those who wear mantles). Which is why they could kill the ladies off during CD. Without an conjunction or otherwise lethal tool, they are in fact immortal when inside the mantle.
According to Jim, the Eye is a god killing weapon. He said even Uriel could be killed by it eventually (if he just sat there and did nothing). It would have killed Mab if she took one or maybe two more blasts with it. She barely survived the first one. The Mantle would have went to Molly right away I'd think.
According to Jim, the Eye is a god killing weapon. He said even Uriel could be killed by it eventually (if he just sat there and did nothing). It would have killed Mab if she took one or maybe two more blasts with it. She barely survived the first one. The Mantle would have went to Molly right away I'd think.
"Everyone," she said, "thinks that hate and love are somehow opposite forces. They are not. They are the same force, facing opposite directions." She glanced aside at me. "Love is fire, my Knight. Love turned the wrong way has killed as many as hate. Reason,young wizard, is the opposite of hate, not love. Ethniu could not destroy me with a single blast of the Eye. I was certain of it. I ran the numbers."
WOJ please, whilst Jim can re-write his rules as he pleases but this hasn’t been shown in BG, all the immortals zapped by the Eye survived though I think only the Erl King was a genuine immortal not reliant upon a Mantle for his immortality.
What the Eye can do is break reality, little point being an immortal if reality has ended.
WOJ please, whilst Jim can re-write his rules as he pleases but this hasn’t been shown in BG, all the immortals zapped by the Eye survived though I think only the Erl King was a genuine immortal not reliant upon a Mantle for his immortality.I don't think there are any immortals absent a mantle. The immortal mantle is what makes an immortal immortal (noting that not all mantles confer immortality). The Erlking is the Eldest goblin. "Eldest" is a powerful mantle in Faerie, and there are a few of them.
What the Eye can do is break reality, little point being an immortal if reality has ended.
WOJ please, whilst Jim can re-write his rules as he pleases but this hasn’t been shown in BG, all the immortals zapped by the Eye survived though I think only the Erl King was a genuine immortal not reliant upon a Mantle for his immortality.
What the Eye can do is break reality, little point being an immortal if reality has ended.
Except you leave out that Mab understood how the Eye worked, understanding it, she neutralized any power it may have had to kill her.I feel like that quote explains balance in the DF, at least inside 🤔 like... You could apply that same reasoning to Summer and Winter for instance. The opposite is actually Nemesis.
on page 394 of Battle Ground, Harry asks her how she withstood it. First observation he made was the Eye was made of hate and destroyed everything it touched. Mab explains how she was able to withstand it.
So it may be a god killing machine, perhaps because most gods don't apply reason, maybe because the don't feel they need to. It makes them vulnerable to the likes of the Eye. Reason, is what Eve gained at the Tree of Knowledge when she took a bite.
I feel like that quote explains balance in the DF, at least inside 🤔 like... You could apply that same reasoning to Summer and Winter for instance. The opposite is actually Nemesis.Maybe, but I think what Mab is getting at is both hate and love are emotions, reason for the most part isn't. You can counter both love and hate with reason.
Maybe, but I think what Mab is getting at is both hate and love are emotions, reason for the most part isn't. You can counter both love and hate with reason.... That's what she's directly saying yes?
So it may be a god killing machine, perhaps because most gods don't apply reason, maybe because the don't feel they need to. It makes them vulnerable to the likes of the Eye. Reason, is what Eve gained at the Tree of Knowledge when she took a bite.
Maybe, but I think what Mab is getting at is both hate and love are emotions, reason for the most part isn't. You can counter both love and hate with reason.
Read Mab's quote again: "Ethniu could not destroy me with a single blast of the Eye."
Then look at why I said " It would have killed Mab if she took one or maybe two more blasts with it. She barely survived the first one."
She knew she wouldn't be killed with the first blast. But she couldn't have taken another, in my opinion, based on how damaged she was from it. She would have eventually been killed by it.
But apparently Ethinu didn't either, because she never tried a second or a third blast. You are making an assumption that a second or a third would have killed Mab, but there is no proof of it because neither the blast nor the death happened. Mab knew this when she stood up against her, she ran the numbers. Then she reasoned it out.
The Eye needed time to charge which is why she didn't just fire it nonstop at everyone. Mab took the shot to buy time.
"Mab was not strong enough to do much more than lift her own head"
"My Knight, came Mab's psychic voice. We have perhaps sixty seconds before the Eye is once again loosed upon us. you must call her by then", talking about summoning Titania.
From that point on, Ethniu was pretty much fighting off everyone else, and didn't get a shot at Mab.
But that is the point, Ethniu gave Mab everything she had with the Eye, and Mab withstood it. Against an immortal with half a brain to reason, the Eye isn't deadly, yes, Mab took a severe shot, but it gave the others a window in which to take her down.