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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Mira on July 19, 2020, 11:14:08 AM
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Okay, the big thing about Murphy has always been what a smart fighter she is. That her advice
to Harry has always been smart, she is called a warrior.. Well, maybe not so much..
In Skin Game she went by her rules and not those of the Sword, broke it and got herself pretty
broken. Then as now, perhaps love has fried her brain a bit? What I am talking about is on
the final couple of pages of Peace Talks on the boat. She is in so much pain she says she can
hardly move. Harry tells her that a good warrior knows when it is best to avoid a fight. He suggests
that there are a group of people, the paranetters who are going to be very scared and need wise
council and protecting, that they need her. She objects to that says she won't sit out this fight, and insists that she is going to join him in the fighting. Harry doesn't argue the point, because he knows he cannot change her.. However what she is doing isn't really brave, it certainly isn't smart, it is very selfish and could get her killed, more to the point get Harry killed because he now cannot fully concentrate on the enemy, he has to worry about her.. Oh I know the argument, Murphy has always taken care of herself and Harry too.. But now the odds are that she cannot and there are people who do need her, especially when things get really hairy. So this kills the idea that if she never improves physically she will be happy running the show from behind a desk. No, she won't. She is good at
fighting, and perhaps it is simply a matter of her that love has once again addled her brain, but she is no warrior, and she is very selfish.. This is may be heavy foreshadowing of her doom..
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If Freydis says she is a warrior then she is one. Apparently she is hot as well.
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I think I will leave the full explanation to the Murphy Valkyrie crowd but her behaviour is exactly what a good viking warrior would do. Probably why the Einherjar and the Valkyrie like her so much.
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If Freydis says she is a warrior then she is one. Apparently she is hot as well.
I know, but if she acts like she says she is going to act, she is no warrior, she is just stupid and selfish.
It is true, Murphy is very brave, but it takes more than that. Let's not forget that some of the "warriors" that Freydis halls off to Valhalla are berserkers, they are mindless fighters..
I think I will leave the full explanation to the Murphy Valkyrie crowd but her behaviour is exactly what a good viking warrior would do. Probably why the Einherjar and the Valkyrie like her so much.
Yeah, but in the end they were defeated by a cool head and a brain..
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I know, but if she acts like she says she is going to act, she is no warrior, she is just stupid and selfish.
According to what definition of warrior? She risks her life to protect others because of who she is. She can help so she does. According to other definitions of warrior she does exactly what she should do.
Or to put it in even more pre christian terms she values her own life maybe less than her reputation, what she does with it and how she will be remembered. She goes to battle because she does not want to be the person who did not. Very much like what Lea said about shame. That is something all the Valkyries and Einherjaren would understand. That is a warrior mindset.
A warrior is not the same as a soldier. Thoug it also fits in with Uriel that your soul is more important than your life.
It is true, Murphy is very brave, but it takes more than that. Let's not forget that some of the "warriors" that Freydis halls off to Valhalla are berserkers, they are mindless fighters..
Yeah, but in the end they were defeated by a cool head and a brain..
Jim clearly shows that Harry still needed Murphy's brain. The plan to get Thomas was her plan for example. Actually he mostly got her around just for that brain. Not that different from Skin Game really and even though that ended badly for her she was still good to have around.
And the all vikings are mindless berserkers is a parody. Even easy inflammable guys like Egil skalagrimson were far from mindless. A good brain was valued also in the Viking era.
And even berserker does not mean stupid. It just means you can flip a switch. Much like Gard did in the short story. In the dresdenverse it is probably a supernatural ability that just makes you a better fighter.
And they were not really defeated. They became something else. To be more precisely their kings used christianity as a tool to expand their power, legitimise their autocratic rule and stamp out dissent and to change their people into more obedient subjects. It is fairly well documented.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heimskringla-History-Norway-Snorri-Sturluson/dp/0292730616
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You are missing the point I think. Murphy for all of her good traits is totally wrong here.
Or to put it in even more pre christian terms she values her own life maybe less than her reputation, what she does with it and how she will be remembered. She goes to battle because she does not want to be the person who did not. Very much like what Lea said about shame. That is something all the Valkyries and Einherjaren would understand. That is a warrior mindset.
That is a nice romantic way of looking at it, but it also gets people killed besides herself. Any other time fine, all of that holds true, but she is injured now. That makes her the weak link in the chain, the team is only as strong as it's weakest link. The job Harry suggested for her had honor, it needs to be done. He may have suggested it to keep her safe, but at the same time if the shit really hits the fan and it looks like it is, those people will need a cool head and someone with the abilities to
protect them, actually the possible future of the supernatural world may depend on them.
She got lucky in a quick surprise move with Freydis, but what if it had gone on for even a few minutes more? She was moving very slow across Lara's back yard after that. Harry won't be as
effective because he will be worrying about her.
According to what definition of warrior? She risks her life to protect others because of who she is. She can help so she does. According to other definitions of warrior she does exactly what she should do.
But that is the whole point, Harry gave her a job with in her current physical limits to protect others that really do need protecting.. But she rejected it because she wants to be out in the action, that isn't being a warrior, that is being stupid... Not just stupid, but puts herself in a position of getting others killed.. Her heart might be in the right place, but her head isn't and neither is her body.
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It's not stupidity -- it's Pride.
Murphy really, really needs a good talking-to from Michael.
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It's not stupidity -- it's Pride.
Murphy really, really needs a good talking-to from Michael.
It is not that. It is like training with the Einherjaren just rubbed of like Molly training with Lea made her more Sidhe.
It like with every choice Karrin had to make Jim asked himself what would a viking warrior do?
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It's not stupidity -- it's Pride.
Murphy really, really needs a good talking-to from Michael.
Yup, that is her flaw and her sin, that is what got her body in it's present shape to begin with. She took pride in her judgement verses that of the Almighty, got not only a Sword broken but her body as well.
It like with every choice Karrin had to make Jim asked himself what would a viking warrior do?
A good Viking warrior wouldn't do stupid.. Her present course is stupid.. Harry knows, he also knows he cannot stop her, he also knows how it will end..
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A good Viking warrior wouldn't do stupid.. Her present course is stupid.. Harry knows, he also knows he cannot stop her, he also knows how it will end..
A real viking warrior would. Her current course leads directly to walhalla. This is not stupid if it is what you want. It is about what you think important.
She wants to help, she wants to experience, she wants to live even if that could mean a shorter life. That is not stupid, that is just different priorities.
Besides Harry would have messed it up already without her.
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A real viking warrior would. Her current course leads directly to walhalla. This is not stupid if it is what you want. It is about what you think important.
How nice for her, but if she takes lives with her because physically she isn't up to a full battle.. If that is what is important to her, so much for the vision back in Blood Rites Harry of her as an avenging angel.
She wants to help, she wants to experience, she wants to live even if that could mean a shorter life. That is not stupid, that is just different priorities.
That's pretty selfish when she could be saving lives and being the weak link in a battle could cost lives.. It isn't about her life, it is about those around her.
esides Harry would have messed it up already without her.
That is neither here nor there as they say...
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Yup, that is her flaw and her sin, that is what got her body in it's present shape to begin with. She took pride in her judgement verses that of the Almighty, got not only a Sword broken but her body as well.
A good Viking warrior wouldn't do stupid.. Her present course is stupid.. Harry knows, he also knows he cannot stop her, he also knows how it will end..
Perhaps she knows how she wants to go out?
A lot of people who have been fighting a long time, including people I served with, would much rather go out feet first. When you have been in the life long enough it sort of limits your options in ways people who have never been there cannot understand.
Fighting is what she knows. She fought to protect Chicago - her home. She fights to protect Harry. Murphy fights to protect what she loves and is willing to risk or even sacrifice her life to do so.
No greater love . . .
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Before this book, I was leaning against the Murphy->Valkyrie route but Murphy's priorities and thinking makes me think that even IF she doesn't go that way, she's more than primed to continue to be aligned with that group in some way. It's like Arjan says about Molly getting primed to be aligned with the Fae.
Murphy's always been respected as a warrior and for her heroic spirit. Freydis doesn't go "Wow Murphy you're so dumb and useless and you're just going to get yourself killed or weigh Harry down lol". The one acknowledgement we get is Murphy proving herself to be a warrior in their eyes and being called a Warrior by a Valkyrie herself. Her path might not be right for some people (or some readers), but it's a path acknowledged by the narrative to be a valid one.
In another story, sure, those traits would possibly be setup to something tragic and Bad. Within PT and the Dresden-verse, the narrative respects Murphy for it and it's pretty unlikely the narrative will suddenly turn around and go Murphy's just selfish and stupid, especially when she continues to contribute in significant ways to what's going on than if she'd just stayed in her house and healed. If she goes, it won't be because Oh No, Hubris — it'll likely be She Did the Right thing.
But I doubt Jim will just off her for cheap angst, either, at least not permanently at this point. Jim's usually not trigger happy for the sake of it and is pretty good at finding other ways to make use of characters (Michael and iirc he acknowledged somewhere Molly could've gotten the shank at some point before she developed the way she did).
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Perhaps she knows how she wants to go out?
A lot of people who have been fighting a long time, including people I served with, would much rather go out feet first. When you have been in the life long enough it sort of limits your options in ways people who have never been there cannot understand.
Fighting is what she knows. She fought to protect Chicago - her home. She fights to protect Harry. Murphy fights to protect what she loves and is willing to risk or even sacrifice her life to do so.
No greater love . . .
I get all of that, but what about the defenseless? Does it come down to glory? No glory it guarding some paranet members, something she could do well considering her physical condition. But by all means go for glory..
Murphy's always been respected as a warrior and for her heroic spirit. Freydis doesn't go "Wow Murphy you're so dumb and useless and you're just going to get yourself killed or weigh Harry down lol". The one acknowledgement we get is Murphy proving herself to be a warrior in their eyes and being called a Warrior by a Valkyrie herself. Her path might not be right for some people (or some readers), but it's a path acknowledged by the narrative to be a valid one.
What she said was that wasn't her time to die... And no, actually Harry hasn't talked to Freydis
about how effective as a warrior Murphy is going to be in a full battle..
In another story, sure, those traits would possibly be setup to something tragic and Bad. Within PT and the Dresden-verse, the narrative respects Murphy for it and it's pretty unlikely the narrative will suddenly turn around and go Murphy's just selfish and stupid, especially when she continues to contribute in significant ways to what's going on than if she'd just stayed in her house and healed. If she goes, it won't be because Oh No, Hubris — it'll likely be She Did the Right thing.
No one is saying she should stay in her house and heal, but hey sometimes that is best for everyone. Alternate roles for a physically impaired Murphy have long been debated at this site, and guarding and leading the paranet when they could very well be in danger is one of them.. Full of honor and before it is over might require a great deal of bravery.. I go back to the weak link in the chain, the team is only as strong as it's weakest link.. Thus everyone else on that team have to look after that weak link. That weak link can also cause the team to break.. A good warrior knows that..
Before this book, I was leaning against the Murphy->Valkyrie route but Murphy's priorities and thinking makes me think that even IF she doesn't go that way, she's more than primed to continue to be aligned with that group in some way. It's like Arjan says about Molly getting primed to be aligned with the Fae.
Or reading this book, she is being primed for death..
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What she said was that wasn't her time to die... And no, actually Harry hasn't talked to Freydis
about how effective as a warrior Murphy is going to be in a full battle..
No. Freydis briefly doubts Murphy, Murphy manages to pull one up on her and get gun under her chin, and Freydis then refers to Murphy as a Warrior and propositions her specifically (and even later tells Harry that if he wants to sleep with her, it'd take drinks first but if he brings Murphy along then Freydis would be onboard immediately).
The narrative and Freydis view her as a warrior to respect, even if you don't.
No one is saying she should stay in her house and heal, but hey sometimes that is best for everyone. Alternate roles for a physically impaired Murphy have long been debated at this site, and guarding and leading the paranet when they could very well be in danger is one of them.. Full of honor and before it is over might require a great deal of bravery.. I go back to the weak link in the chain, the team is only as strong as it's weakest link.. Thus everyone else on that team have to look after that weak link. That weak link can also cause the team to break.. A good warrior knows that..
Yes. So weak chain. That's why she played a big role in getting the plan working, came up with a way to deal with their tails, was able to help talk Harry through his crisis after his confrontation with Eb, and was able to get Freydis to back off when she attacked her ::).
At that point, the narrative seems more geared towards the idea of debunking Murphy as just poor weak and damaged Murphy who can't do anything. It and Harry acknowledge she has limits and that's why he's afraid for her, but it also goes on to show her pulling her weight where she can. At that point, the only thing that's changed is where she's pulling it.
Or reading this book, she is being primed for death..
And then revival as a Valkyrie :P. Either way, her death if it happens isn't going to be played as all her fault for being stupid and selfish based on the narrative we're being told.
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I hope Murphy never dies, and lives a long and happy life with Harry and Maggie.
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I hope Murphy never dies, and lives a long and happy life with Harry and Maggie.
Tbf, that's my preference too. If she does, it won't surprise me if she still keeps ties to Odin's side though.
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Tbf, that's my preference too. If she does, it won't surprise me if she still keeps ties to Odin's side though.
It is clear the narrative sees her as a warrior and respects the choices she made. We never see her dragging Harry down in the book. We see her making valuable contributions. If she is set up for her death as the story runs now it will be a heroic death saving Chicago. Not a foolish one as a piece of luggage that shouldn’t be there.
After the Titan is bound Harry introduces her to River Shoulders and he knows even more about healing than Listen to Winds does.
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It is clear the narrative sees her as a warrior and respects the choices she made. We never see her dragging Harry down in the book. We see her making valuable contributions. If she is set up for her death as the story runs now it will be a heroic death saving Chicago. Not a foolish one as a piece of luggage that shouldn’t be there.
After the Titan is bound Harry introduces her to River Shoulders and he knows even more about healing than Listen to Winds does.
Honestly though she should. Like, a Murphy that is crippled and still working her way up to normal functionality (let alone fighting strength) should not be manhandling a Muck-fothering Valkyrie. She's fresh out of a cast and should barely be able to walk long distances.
Either she's already accepted some Faustian Deal off screen or she's running on even more Plot-Armour then usual.
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Honestly though she should. Like, a Murphy that is crippled and still working her way up to normal functionality (let alone fighting strength) should not be manhandling a Muck-fothering Valkyrie. She's fresh out of a cast and should barely be able to walk long distances.
Either she's already accepted some Faustian Deal off screen or she's running on even more Plot-Armour then usual.
We don’t know exactly how crippled she is and the story might be colored by Harry’s concern for her. And Jim obviously likes to keep her around.
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We don’t know exactly how crippled she is and the story might be colored by Harry’s concern for her. And Jim obviously likes to keep her around.
Yes, we really do:
“Round two can start next week,” she continued, speaking in her professional voice, the detached one that didn’t have any emotion in it, used mostly when something really, really upset her. “Then it’s just three more months of casts and stupid braces and then I can start six months of therapy while they wean me off the painkillers, and after all of that is done, if it goes very, very well, he thinks I might be able to walk without a cane. As long as I don’t have to do it very fast.”
I frowned. “What about your training?”
“There was damage,” she said, her voice becoming not so much quiet as . . . dead. “In the knee, shoulder, elbow. They’re hoping to get me back to fifty percent. Of basic function. Not athletic activity.”
So yeah, apparently Murphy, with careful physiotherapy, will in 9 months be up to less then half as physically able as she was before. If she's lucky. And yet she's beating down supernatural warriors with decades to centuries of experience on her. Somehow.
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Yes, we really do:
So yeah, apparently Murphy, with careful physiotherapy, will in 9 months be up to less then half as physically able as she was before. If she's lucky. And yet she's beating down supernatural warriors with decades to centuries of experience on her. Somehow.
So apparently we don't know.
Maybe the docters were too pessimistic, they often are to prevent hopes rising too high and patients forcing themselves too much and too fast. After all when they say everything will be all right and it doesn't they have a far bigger problem than the other way round.
Which might be exactly what she is doing now. We just don't know.
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So yeah, apparently Murphy, with careful physiotherapy, will in 9 months be up to less then half as physically able as she was before. If she's lucky. And yet she's beating down supernatural warriors with decades to centuries of experience on her. Somehow.
Tbf, it's not like Murphy is beating down Freydis into a crater. The first time was because she was quick with the gun. The second time she had grenades prepped to deal with the situation and didn't need to move much. That's very different than if she was sparring like she was before her injuries and even after she made Freydis take her seriously, she still needed help holding things and adjusting herself after.
She's not going to be running around with a sword but she can still point a gun and act within limitations if she fights smart. We see that with things like her having gun in position while she was waiting on the boat.
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Tbf, it's not like Murphy is beating down Freydis into a crater. The first time was because she was quick with the gun. The second time she had grenades prepped to deal with the situation and didn't need to move much. That's very different than if she was sparring like she was before her injuries and even after she made Freydis take her seriously, she still needed help holding things and adjusting herself after.
She's not going to be running around with a sword but she can still point a gun and act within limitations if she fights smart. We see that with things like her having gun in position while she was waiting on the boat.
Which is believable, barely... However that isn't how it is going to go down in the next book. Also
she isn't invincible either, the reason she is in the condition she is in is because Nic beat the holy crap out of her. He did that with his fists, skills, and strength, nothing else.. Yeah, he has a coin, but I don't think fighting power is one of Andriel's skills, and he had the noose. So they will be fighting a lot of Nics on steroids, my point still is while I understand where her heart is, her head should rule, she is a liability on the battle field in her current condition. Harry gave her a vital option and she rejected it.
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It's perhaps noteworthy that the one time she does "beat" Freydis, her victory is based on her willingness to die to win.
If she dies in Battleground, it seems likely that she'll go out in suicide-bomber style -- not a good end in Catholicism, but perhaps honored by Valhalla.
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Murphy like Dresden serves the greater good, Harry doesn’t shy from taking on the Titan even if it will kill him, he is acutely aware of this and won’t stop even for Maggie (but he will make arrangements in the event of his death) for goodness sake being nearly dead didn’t stop Harry in Ghost Story, so being crippled won’t stop Murphy, she will do what she can, which will likely be leading SI and CYPD into battle. Her fate has always been to come back with her shield, or on it. She will never surrender.
This is why she will either go Valkyrie (depends on whether they can find a winged Shetland Pony or not) or Einenjaren, but will probably still end up serving the City.
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https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/c9/da/0ec9da8cfbd7c98b58e96c5adbb82a32.png
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It's perhaps noteworthy that the one time she does "beat" Freydis, her victory is based on her willingness to die to win.
If she dies in Battleground, it seems likely that she'll go out in suicide-bomber style -- not a good end in Catholicism, but perhaps honored by Valhalla.
It was a surprise and over in seconds, not clear how hard Freydis was fighting back or at all. She might have been merely testing, also it really wasn't the time to have a knock down drag out, her
current boss Lara needed Harry or at the very least wanted to talk to Harry at that moment.
I know everyone thinks it, but I doubt that Murphy will become a Valkyrie for a number of reasons. First one she doesn't respect authority, not a good idea to argue with Vadderung... Yes, she has worked with him in the past, but as a mortal she was also free to walk away.. As a Valkyrie, not so much, not sure she'd like the idea of knowing in advance who was going to live and who was going to die, especially if she didn't agree with it. Yeah, I know Gard fudged with Harry back in Dead Beat, and perhaps Michael in Small Favor.. Yes, it does go against her religion.. Nor does it mean she can remain at Harry's side. So she may become it in the end, but it may not work out as everyone thinks it is going to be.
Murphy like Dresden serves the greater good, Harry doesn’t shy from taking on the Titan even if it will kill him, he is acutely aware of this and won’t stop even for Maggie (but he will make arrangements in the event of his death) for goodness sake being nearly dead didn’t stop Harry in Ghost Story, so being crippled won’t stop Murphy, she will do what she can, which will likely be leading SI and CYPD into battle. Her fate has always been to come back with her shield, or on it. She will never surrender.
Harry in Ghost Story isn't the same, or even close. He was trying to find his own killer for starters. Second of all an archangel arranged for his walk about.. Also if you will remember there was very little he could do to help those who were very much alive.
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If Murphy *does* become a Valkyrie or Enherjar...
Can you imagine her hired out to Lara or Marcone and taking their orders?
(Or would Harry use her share of the diamonds to hire her from Vadderung on a long-term contract? --- That does feel like quite a cheat.)
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I don’t think so either because I do not see her swear fealty to vadderung. But there is a reason they all like her so much and her actions make sense viewed from that mindset.
And I found you a winged Shetland pony.
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Thank you for the Pony, if it makes it into the series Harry will have a ton of my little pony wisecracks at Murphy’s expense.
I think if Murphy goes Valkyrie or Einenjaher her contract would go to the CPD and she gets an much expanded SI back as Captain. Her career killed two marriages, I doubt she would want another serious relationship to fall and would want a less serious relationahip with Harry i am not sure Harry would want. I note no Harry, Murphy, Maggie scenes so back to friendship for Harry. STILL a better love life than Carlos.
I think the City authorities have finally met a supernatural challenge they can’t ignore, and Harry knows this, it is why he took the Placard. A placard is a communications device which would useful during the Battle if Harry can use it to communicate to the people to stay indoors behind their thresholds and arm themselves about home invasion. He could also use it to communicate to the CPD officers a rallying point for Murphy. Afterwards he can use it to communicate the all clear and explain what has just happened. If something like that does happen, the City authorities are going to fall over themselves re-hiring Murphy as a Captain and let her build SI as she wants, Swartalf weapons, Harry back as a consultant and other Paranetters as consultants, as much mortal manpower and firepower as she needs etc.
Murphy would get everything she ever wanted. Harry wouldn’t
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I just thought, this may be foreshadowed by the other Captain Murphy, Captain Collin ‘Jack’ Murphy still doing the job despite his demise, there would be no reason why the two couldn’t liaise to deal with manifesting mad ghosts, surely Harry and Mortie could work something out for posthumous witnesses and the like.
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I just thought, this may be foreshadowed by the other Captain Murphy, Captain Collin ‘Jack’ Murphy still doing the job despite his demise, there would be no reason why the two couldn’t liaise to deal with manifesting mad ghosts, surely Harry and Mortie could work something out for posthumous witnesses and the like.
If she is killed, and we do see more of her from time to time, this is what I think will have happened to her. It fits more with her faith, and actually if she cannot be with Harry I think she'd be happy working with her father.
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It was a surprise and over in seconds, not clear how hard Freydis was fighting back or at all. She might have been merely testing, also it really wasn't the time to have a knock down drag out, her
current boss Lara needed Harry or at the very least wanted to talk to Harry at that moment.
I know everyone thinks it, but I doubt that Murphy will become a Valkyrie for a number of reasons. First one she doesn't respect authority, not a good idea to argue with Vadderung... Yes, she has worked with him in the past, but as a mortal she was also free to walk away.. As a Valkyrie, not so much, not sure she'd like the idea of knowing in advance who was going to live and who was going to die, especially if she didn't agree with it. Yeah, I know Gard fudged with Harry back in Dead Beat, and perhaps Michael in Small Favor.. Yes, it does go against her religion.. Nor does it mean she can remain at Harry's side. So she may become it in the end, but it may not work out as everyone thinks it is going to be.
Harry in Ghost Story isn't the same, or even close. He was trying to find his own killer for starters. Second of all an archangel arranged for his walk about.. Also if you will remember there was very little he could do to help those who were very much alive.
I agree with you on the Valkyrie thing. Becoming one of the Einherjar would be worse. They are all fated to die; for good, with Odin when Ragnarök occurs. I don't remember if any of the Valkyries survive, just that Thor's son and a few others do.
I'm not seeing Murphy working for Uriel; with or without her dad, as some kind of ghost detective. It just doesn't feel right to me.
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I agree with you on the Valkyrie thing. Becoming one of the Einherjar would be worse. They are all fated to die; for good, with Odin when Ragnarök occurs. I don't remember if any of the Valkyries survive, just that Thor's son and a few others do.
I'm not seeing Murphy working for Uriel; with or without her dad, as some kind of ghost detective. It just doesn't feel right to me.
Ghost detective, no, but apparently her father does do important work for Uriel and he sort of offered that kind of job to Harry if he had gone all dead.
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Ghost detective, no, but apparently her father does do important work for Uriel and he sort of offered that kind of job to Harry if he had gone all dead.
Yeah but as we just got done establishing in Peace Talks, Murphy doesn't care if it's a job that's honestly probably more important then anything else she could be doing, because she wants to kick ass and take names.
So yeah, can't see her going for that. She'd fit a lot better among Odin's crew, which I honestly think is what Jim's going for.
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Freydis said that Murphy wasn't fated to die, "in this battle." That was pretty heavy foreshadowing for Jim. It's openly saying that Murphy is fated to die in a battle, sometime in the future. How far in the future is anyone's guess.
The one problem I have with Murphy being in the next battle is that she really isn't capable of doing more than planting some explosives; or more likely, having someone else plant them for her, and remote detonate them at the appropriate time. She can shoot a gun, sure, but she can't shoot and scoot. Once she takes a position, she's going to be pretty much stuck there.
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In the Thomas heist, Murphy's role was wheel-person and Harry's backup. When Freydis thought to switch her role to hostage, Murphy had a plan for that -- a semi-suicidal plan, but a successful plan nonetheless.
I'd imagine in Battle Ground, we'll see her in something like a reprise of her role in Cold Days -- driving Harry around the lakefront from battle to battle, having his back as needed.
But, yeah, the death flags have been flying like confetti at a ticker-tape parade. I'd imagine she'll be killed at a suitably dramatic moment in the battle, right after gunning down some fomor mook that's about to take Harry out from behind. (Perhaps Listen? -- I can't remember, did Murphy meet Listen, maybe in Aftermath?)
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https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/c9/da/0ec9da8cfbd7c98b58e96c5adbb82a32.png
Lol.
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I'd imagine in Battle Ground, we'll see her in something like a reprise of her role in Cold Days -- driving Harry around the lakefront from battle to battle, having his back as needed.
She was riding a motorcycle and was in good physical shape. Depending on which knee is injured, and how bad he shoulder is, driving a car at breakneck speed dodging who knows what will be pretty hard if not almost impossible.
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She hates the Munstermobile because her feet to not even reach the pedals.
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She hates the Munstermobile because her feet to not even reach the pedals.
If it is any consolation for her, if Harry rides in her car he knees are on his ears... When my son, who is just too inches shorter than Harry tries to ride in my car, he put the seat practically in the back seat
and he still doesn't have enough room.
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The Munstermobile also foreshadows Murphy’s death.
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I get all of that, but what about the defenseless? Does it come down to glory? No glory it guarding some paranet members, something she could do well considering her physical condition. But by all means go for glory..
How is she going for glory? Pretty sure it is not going to make the front page of the Chicago Tribune.
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Cattle die, kinsmen die; the self must also die. I know one thing which never dies: the reputation of each dead man (77).
Deyr fé,
deyja frændr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
dómr um dauðan hvern.
https://www.vikingrune.com/2014/05/old-norse-proverbs-quotes-from-edda/
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If it is any consolation for her, if Harry rides in her car he knees are on his ears... When my son, who is just too inches shorter than Harry tries to ride in my car, he put the seat practically in the back seat
and he still doesn't have enough room.
Back in high school and college I had a friend who was 7 feet tall. His parents were tall as well. They had to have trucks or suvs to fit. We were friends when having a gas guzzling suv was considered a shameful act by some for political reasons. (I'm not sure if that is still the case in many quarters, but I haven't heard it mentioned in a long time).
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Back in high school and college I had a friend who was 7 feet tall. His parents were tall as well. They had to have trucks or suvs to fit. We were friends when having a gas guzzling suv was considered a shameful act by some for political reasons. (I'm not sure if that is still the case in many quarters, but I haven't heard it mentioned in a long time).
I own a Honda Element, it is a tight fit for him.. My brother who was six foot seven could fit in the front of an old Beetle but since he didn't drive I don't know if it would work out behind the wheel. I do remember an old Wilt Chamberlain commercial for V.W.s the caption read, "They said it couldn't be done, and it couldn't." At seven foot something, old Wilt the Stilt couldn't fit in a V.W. My son
drives a pick up and they also own an SUV, mainly because they have three babies under four years of age.
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Okay, the big thing about Murphy has always been what a smart fighter she is. That her advice
to Harry has always been smart, she is called a warrior.. Well, maybe not so much..
In Skin Game she went by her rules and not those of the Sword, broke it and got herself pretty
broken. Then as now, perhaps love has fried her brain a bit? What I am talking about is on
the final couple of pages of Peace Talks on the boat. She is in so much pain she says she can
hardly move. Harry tells her that a good warrior knows when it is best to avoid a fight. He suggests
that there are a group of people, the paranetters who are going to be very scared and need wise
council and protecting, that they need her. She objects to that says she won't sit out this fight, and insists that she is going to join him in the fighting. Harry doesn't argue the point, because he knows he cannot change her.. However what she is doing isn't really brave, it certainly isn't smart, it is very selfish and could get her killed, more to the point get Harry killed because he now cannot fully concentrate on the enemy, he has to worry about her.. Oh I know the argument, Murphy has always taken care of herself and Harry too.. But now the odds are that she cannot and there are people who do need her, especially when things get really hairy. So this kills the idea that if she never improves physically she will be happy running the show from behind a desk. No, she won't. She is good at
fighting, and perhaps it is simply a matter of her that love has once again addled her brain, but she is no warrior, and she is very selfish.. This is may be heavy foreshadowing of her doom..
Selfish? Idiotic? Can get her killed? Hell yes. The question is what wouldn't?
Honestly speaking, Murphy is tied to Harry now. If Harry goes down for some reason I doubt Murphy could survive for long. Well. unless she dug a hole at demonreach island and hide there for all her life. Which is probably is worse than death for her.
Anyway, this is her choice and I can't even really say that it is wrong. You see, Harry's idea to just stash Murphy in demonreach for her safety is exactly the kind of choice motivated by the same mentality of Ebenezar Mckoy. The same mentality Harry openly despise in front of his own grandfather. Harry is using double standard here, and I can't blame him much.
It is the mentality that make Susan hide Maggi's birth from Harry. The same mentality which made Ebenezar abandoned Harry in an orphanage after his father's death. The same mentality which made Harry choose to commit suicide in changes and so on. It is what cause EB anger when he saw Maggi living with Harry openly.
Is EB wrong? Honestly, I don't know. I do know that Harry has no stone to throw against Murphy when she choose to go with Harry to battle despite of her injuries. Why? Because under the same circumstances, Harry would have made the same choice. Murphy ask Harry the same question and Harry has no answer. Those two are the same kind of person.
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Selfish? Idiotic? Can get her killed? Hell yes. The question is what wouldn't?
Honestly speaking, Murphy is tied to Harry now. If Harry goes down for some reason I doubt Murphy could survive for long. Well. unless she dug a hole at demonreach island and hide there for all her life. Which is probably is worse than death for her.
Anyway, this is her choice and I can't even really say that it is wrong. You see, Harry's idea to just stash Murphy in demonreach for her safety is exactly the kind of choice motivated by the same mentality of Ebenezar Mckoy. The same mentality Harry openly despise in front of his own grandfather. Harry is using double standard here, and I can't blame him much.
It is the mentality that make Susan hide Maggi's birth from Harry. The same mentality which made Ebenezar abandoned Harry in an orphanage after his father's death. The same mentality which made Harry choose to commit suicide in changes and so on. It is what cause EB anger when he saw Maggi living with Harry openly.
Is EB wrong? Honestly, I don't know. I do know that Harry has no stone to throw against Murphy when she choose to go with Harry to battle despite of her injuries. Why? Because under the same circumstances, Harry would have made the same choice. Murphy ask Harry the same question and Harry has no answer. Those two are the same kind of person.
Some choices are not right or wrong, they are based on different priorities and risk acceptance.
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Some choices are not right or wrong, they are based on different priorities and risk acceptance.
You also need Luck or pray for TWG's blessings. If your luck is rotten any choice would just end in tears. especially these days.
Things has gone so bad, at this rate, any intelligence, logic, power, skill or talent is not as practical as luck. As for TWG's blessing, perhaps TWG would have an easier time helping a mortal if that mortal based their choices on positive things like love, courage and hope instead of making choice based on paranoya, fear and despair.
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Anyway, this is her choice and I can't even really say that it is wrong. You see, Harry's idea to just stash Murphy in demonreach for her safety is exactly the kind of choice motivated by the same mentality of Ebenezar Mckoy. The same mentality Harry openly despise in front of his own grandfather. Harry is using double standard here, and I can't blame him much.
Actually he never suggested that, she suggested that he was thinking of doing that. He suggested
she watch over the paranetters, who were at Mac's and perhaps some other places. Who when it hits the fan will be in real danger would need a clear head and a smart fighter. Harry isn't wrong, I know it hurts Murphy's ego, but he isn't wrong.
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Actually he never suggested that, she suggested that he was thinking of doing that. He suggested
she watch over the paranetters, who were at Mac's and perhaps some other places. Who when it hits the fan will be in real danger would need a clear head and a smart fighter. Harry isn't wrong, I know it hurts Murphy's ego, but he isn't wrong.
And Murphy is not wrong either.
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Peace Talks page 315
She shrugged one shoulder. Her voice was heavy and tired. "Everything hurts. But I can move some."
"Maybe you should take shelter," I said. "The Paranetters are going to head for Mac's place. They'll need someone to keep a cool head and a sharp watch."
She snorted. "You think I cannot handle myself?'
"Don't," I said quietly. "I was ready to take you with me into literal Hell and you know it. Every warrior gets hurt. Has limits. There's no shame in acknowledging that."
She was quiet for a moment. Then she asked, "If you were hurt, would you sit this one out?"
This is why I started this thread in the first place, that bit sticks out to me. While the answer from Harry most likely would be, no. It would be just as stupid and egocentric if he did, even though as a wizard he has a lot more tools even injured than she does, a mere vanilla mortal. Harry goes on to
acknowledge that there is no way he can stop her, that is who she is, but sadly most likely it will also get her killed. Now maybe her death will make a difference, maybe there will be some miracle she will get cured and kick ass or she will ride off to the tune of the Ride of the Valkyrie from the Ring Cycle after she becomes a bloody grease spot.. Or maybe not so much.. So if the paranet gets wiped out because when the chips were down no one was there for them, it's okay because well, Murphy didn't want to sit it out.."Every warrior gets hurt. Has limits. There's no shame in acknowledging that."
Nor is there shame in standing a post, with her skills considering her current limitations, where she can do the most good..
And Murphy is not wrong either.
In this case, yes, she is... The answer is against what is coming? No, she cannot handle herself, from her questions to Harry she has no clue. She cannot be reasoned with, Harry knows this, and now has the added weight of knowing he is going to lose her either way..
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It seems like Murphy's decision is to be in the thick of it. She's just a liability in such a situation. Even being a driver would be a huge liability. If a car gets stuck, it's a death trap. Murphy doesn't have a lot of mobility. An overwatch position has the same problems if she needs to change positions. She really needs to be in REMF position.
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Peace Talks page 315
This is why I started this thread in the first place, that bit sticks out to me. While the answer from Harry most likely would be, no. It would be just as stupid and egocentric if he did, even though as a wizard he has a lot more tools even injured than she does, a mere vanilla mortal. Harry goes on to
acknowledge that there is no way he can stop her, that is who she is, but sadly most likely it will also get her killed. Now maybe her death will make a difference, maybe there will be some miracle she will get cured and kick ass or she will ride off to the tune of the Ride of the Valkyrie from the Ring Cycle after she becomes a bloody grease spot.. Or maybe not so much.. So if the paranet gets wiped out because when the chips were down no one was there for them, it's okay because well, Murphy didn't want to sit it out.. Nor is there shame in standing a post, with her skills considering her current limitations, where she can do the most good..
In this case, yes, she is... The answer is against what is coming? No, she cannot handle herself, from her questions to Harry she has no clue. She cannot be reasoned with, Harry knows this, and now has the added weight of knowing he is going to lose her either way..
Harry's abilities is a non issue here. Even if Harry becomes a vanilla and he is injured, it is likely that Harry will still choose to go to battle himself regardless. Which is the same as Murphy's choice. The guy just don't know how to give up. You need to cripple him or put Harry into a coma if you want him to stop going.
We are facing a supernatural army led by a freaking Titan here. If a disaster that could wiped out the paranet really appears, Murphy being there will just be buying soysauce. Not much better than if she went with Harry anyway. Besides, facing the likes of Ethniu, Murphy is an ant and Harry is just a slightly bigger ant. The enemy is so strong, the power difference between Harry and Murphy becomes insignificant.
Things are so chaotic right now, nobody could be certain what is the right choice. If your luck is bad, any road could end up in death.
Under such circumstances, following your heart and doing what you really want is not a bad choice at all. At least one won't die in regret afterwards even if things end up in tragedy. Besides, who knows? Miracle could happened.
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It seems like Murphy's decision is to be in the thick of it. She's just a liability in such a situation. Even being a driver would be a huge liability. If a car gets stuck, it's a death trap. Murphy doesn't have a lot of mobility. An overwatch position has the same problems if she needs to change positions. She really needs to be in REMF position.
Yes, this isn't about her and her desires.. Yes, I get it she wants to fight for her city, but in her condition she is more apt to get other people also fighting for her city killed or injured. And there is a task she can do in her present state, protect a group that need protecting and if it really hits the fan she will get all the fighting she can handle.
Under such circumstances, following your heart and doing what you really want is not a bad choice at all. At least one won't die in regret afterwards even if things end up in tragedy. Besides, who knows? Miracle could happened.
It is, if it gets others killed... No regrets? Um if they win and some people die because she was in a place she had no business being in following her heart, you can bet she will have LOTS of regrets, the kind that do not go away if she has any conscience at all.
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We seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what role Murphy will insist on having in Battle Ground.
She didn't insist on being part of the infiltration team in Peace Talks, just on being there to back Harry up rather than leaving him alone with the Whamps. Freydis thought, like a lot of you, that she was a handicap rather than an asset. Murphy proved her wrong.
Let's give her a chance to make some reasonable decisions about what role she can carry out -- with one notable exception in Skin Game, where she got played by Nico, she's been doing a good job about making that call for a dozen books or so.
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There is no reason to think she gets others killed besides herself. Not if we look at everything that happened until now. She handled things she could handle and Harry was not protecting her more than normal. Probably less than normal. She used her brain. Her bringing danger to other people than herself is not shown in the text once.
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There is no reason to think she gets others killed besides herself. Not if we look at everything that happened until now. She handled things she could handle and Harry was not protecting her more than normal. Probably less than normal. She used her brain. Her bringing danger to other people than herself is not shown in the text once.
Besides, how do you know if something could get someone killed and another thing would not? This is war, not a simulation game. We also knowthe the result of taking more responsibility than your power could handle. That is arrogance of the highest degree. Even Harry, a wizard with far greater power than most, has been warned by Michael in SG not to take such a burden on himself. How could we expect Murphy to carry the same burden?
Power equal responsibility. The problem is, Murphy has very little power to begin with. and now that she is no longer an officer and injured to boot, she has even less. This meant that she has very little responsibility. Almost none in fact. It is not fair to place the safety of the entire paranet or any other person upon her. She might carry this burden in the past. She once a officer of the law and she was once a capable fighter, but that is no more.
She is no longer an officer. No longer a KoTC candidate. No need to keep the holy swords safe. She is free to do what she wants to do now. All of ther bonds is gone. No duty, no concern, only her love remains.
PS: This is a single minded Murphy with all limiters off...
Why do I get the chills when I wrote this?
Must be just my imagination.
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Power equal responsibility. The problem is, Murphy has very little power to begin with. and now that she is no longer an officer and injured to boot, she has even less. This meant that she has very little responsibility. Almost none in fact. It is not fair to place the safety of the entire paranet or any other person upon her. She might carry this burden in the past. She once a officer of the law and she was once a capable fighter, but that is no more.
Then maybe she should sit this one out if what you say is true.. Because her first response to Harry when he suggested it, was paraphrasing that she was capable "of handling herself." Well, if she is, then lending her wisdom and protective instincts to the paranet would be perfect.
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Then maybe she should sit this one out if what you say is true.. Because her first response to Harry when he suggested it, was paraphrasing that she was capable "of handling herself." Well, if she is, then lending her wisdom and protective instincts to the paranet would be perfect.
Indeed, She could choose to sit this one out. She could, not she should. As an officer, she should serve and protect. Even if the job is hard, even if the scope is somewhat above her pay grade, she is oblige to do it. Now she is not an officer. She is no longer oblige to do something, it is no longer her duty. But if she chooce to do so, it is something else entirely. "Free will" is a TWG's guaranteed right, after all.
The fact of the matter is, Murphy no longer choose to prioritize other people. The paranet and other people would have to come second or even third. Harry is now first for her, and she has the right and in full position to make that choice.
The most important thing for her now is Harry. Staying by Harry side is her will, and since there is no longer any duty, concern or restriction upon her anymore, well, she is free.