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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on February 13, 2018, 05:59:06 AM
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It's been said that the Gatekeeper cannot step on Demonreach because he "focused the Tank"... I'm wondering if during Changes Harry along with Lea, Odin, 2 KoTC, the Blackstaff, and others were focusing the Tank (Red King). Where was Cowl? When this pivotal battle was going on, was there something else going on that was missed? Were they lured into a battle so that Cowl, and the Black Council could be making their move somewhere else?
(http://telegraf.com.ua/files/2016/06/1TaXBZDxM9Q.jpg)
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My take is that the Black Council/Circle is a catspaw of Nemesis. I think they are maneuvering to get more of the outsiders, inside.
I think that the vampires were trying to position themselves to take over the defense of the outer Gates. I think they believe that they would gain a BUNCH of power by doing so.
I think the aim of Chichen Itza, from the vampire perspective, was to take out the defenders of Humanity, so that the Vampires would be able to create more and more troops to man the Outer Gates.
I think the Rampires being wiped out might have endangered the transition of power that is going to occur at the Outer Gates.
Further, I think Nick's endgame was to get the artifacts from Hades' vault to find a way to seal the Outer Gates permanently. I think Harry is going to do just that. I think it might just cut off all magic when he does it, too.
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For those of us that do not play League of Legends, can somebody explain what the term "Focus the Tank" actually means in context?
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Putting a lot of effort into whittling down a mountain of HP (the tank) rather than prioritizing the more crucial enemies.
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Putting a lot of effort into whittling down a mountain of HP (the tank) rather than prioritizing the more crucial enemies.
So... Rashid previously messed up a defense of Demonreach in the past by trying to take down something that was too tough for him while Demonreach was left scrambling to defend itself?
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So... Rashid previously messed up a defense of Demonreach in the past by trying to take down something that was too tough for him while Demonreach was left scrambling to defend itself?
Thats how I interpret it. Rashid focused on the wrong enemy (tank) allowing a more dangerous enemy to attack and wound Demonreach.
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I'm still convinced that Kemmler was the last WARDEN, and it was Rashid's job to prevent DR from defending Kemmler.
As to the wounding of DR, his limp is from a Glacier, per Jim.
2009 Independence signing:
Can you tell us more about the runes on the cottage and the lighthouse?
They were not put there by Demonreach; they have been there a very long time. They are pre-Council. They’re a prehistoric script, actually. Harry could have figured out the script if he’d had the comic book. NOTE: I think this has something to do with runes on a wall in Under City seen in Welcome to the Jungle
Also, people have a few things wrong about the Gatekeeper and the island. The Gatekeeper did not hurt Demonreach. Gatekeeper has been on the island a couple of times, and it’s never gone well, but he didn’t cause Demonreach’s limp. That’s the work of the glacier that carved out Lake Michigan.
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I'm still convinced that Kemmler was the last WARDEN, and it was Rashid's job to prevent DR from defending Kemmler.
As to the wounding of DR, his limp is from a Glacier, per Jim.
Thanks for posting that WOJ. I have not come across that one before. Seems to suggest that maybe Demonreach was a bigger area than the island pre-lake and in the carving out of the lake (forming of the island) Demonreach was limited/injured.
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For those of us that do not play League of Legends, can somebody explain what the term "Focus the Tank" actually means in context?
In a battle you usually have a group of players:
Tank (built to absorb damage. Doesn't do a lot of damage but is very difficult to kill)
Healer (Heals the players on their team)
Damage dealer (kills the enemy team)
In a player vs player match, you never go after the Tank first. If you do all that ends up happening is you spend a lot of time and energy fighting the Tank, unable to kill them because they are built to take damage, and the healer keeps them alive. In the process the damage dealers on the other team usually kill your healer first, then the damage players, and then finish the Tank last. When players focus the Tank first they almost always lose
So my guess is Rashid went after the exact wrong person he should have, a decoy meant to be targeted.
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In a battle you usually have a group of players:
Tank (built to absorb damage. Doesn't do a lot of damage but is very difficult to kill)
Healer (Heals the players on their team)
Damage dealer (kills the enemy team)
In a player vs player match, you never go after the Tank first. If you do all that ends up happening is you spend a lot of time and energy fighting the Tank, unable to kill them because they are built to take damage, and the healer keeps them alive. In the process the damage dealers on the other team usually kill your healer first, then the damage players, and then finish the Tank last. When players focus the Tank first they almost always lose
So my guess is Rashid went after the exact wrong person he should have, a decoy meant to be targeted.
Hmm, then I think it would make sense if in context it means that previously Rashid was part of an assault on Demonreach itself, and he made the mistake of attacking just the manifestation (is Alfred) which did no good since it's actually the island and The Well and all that. Alfred doesnt really seem the sort to expect enough from anybody (other than the Warden) to be disappointed in what they /didn't/ do, but I could see him very much holding a grudge against anyone who directly attacked him.
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My problem with the theory that DR was the tank Rashid focused is that if that was the case, DR wouldn't have an issue with "focusing the tank" so much as "being there." Focusing the tank if DR is the tank is only good for DR, that's what it's there to do. You only get pissed at someone for focusing the tank when you're on the same side and they're screwing it up.
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My problem with the theory that DR was the tank Rashid focused is that if that was the case, DR wouldn't have an issue with "focusing the tank" so much as "being there." Focusing the tank if DR is the tank is only good for DR, that's what it's there to do. You only get pissed at someone for focusing the tank when you're on the same side and they're screwing it up.
I disagree: You get pissed at whomever is punching you in the Face. I suspect that Rashid was the one chosen to do the actual Offensive actions, as the distraction, while the rest were doing whatever else they might do that required breaking INTO a prison.
Granted, Im trying to give Rashid the benefit of the doubt that "focusing the tank" was actually the plan for some reason, rather than an example of him screwing up the real plan.
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i always interpreted that a little differently. I saw it as Rashid used dr as a tank letting some damage dealer pound on the island while he did what he had to do. I see DR as smart enough to understand Rashid set him up to take a beating but not understand you picked the wrong enemy in the fight and we lost
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Demonreach and Rashid were on the same side. Rashid screwed up the plan because he was a newb and tried to take down a tank before taking down more fragile opponents.
Demonreach holds a grudge with Rashid because he was ineffective and likely something of value for demonreach was lost.
Groinkick and peregrine have it right. Raid leaders do get mad if you don't attack priority targets. Demonreach is mad. I feel Rashid has been on a number of those raids with demonreach and it usually doesn't end well, but I don't think anyone else would do better. Rashid is the best least bad option.
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I think you need to look at what matters to Demonreach. Namely, the Island and the Well. Everything else is unimportant to it besides it's purpose. So most likely either:
A) Rashid fucked up while defending the Island, attacked the wrong enemy, and something broke out because of it.
B) Rashid chose to focus on another threat, something unrelated to Demonreach, over his duties to the Island- say by leaving his position as Warden of the Well in order to become Gatekeeper.
I like B personally.
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A seems most likely to me. Occam's Razor and all that.
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Yeah but A implies that Rashid is somehow better able to deal with a threat then Alfred "Can Throw Mab in the Naughty Corner" Demonreach, which... seems unlikely
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Yeah but A implies that Rashid is somehow better able to deal with a threat then Alfred "Can Throw Mab in the Naughty Corner" Demonreach, which... seems unlikely
Rashid may have (as the previous Warden) ordered the Island to focus it's attack on something else, probably against it's warnings. If something like this did happen it makes me think that it was personal for Rashid... He was emotionally involved. Perhaps he witnessed the "Tank" kill someone he knew during the conflict, and he directed his attack towards it.
Harry deduced that Alfred was vulnerable to Sidhe attack. Perhaps the attack in question was from the Fomor (they are related to the Sidhe).
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I still say Rashid distracted DR while someone slipped across and took MW's walking stick.
Although there are a few others. Woj was we'd see more of 'focusing the tank' in CD's and that was someone holding/bogging down the heavy(better word than tank here I think) while someone else worked on the island.
*i'm confused by the OP's premise that Harry focused any tank?
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Maybe Rashid distracted Demonreach so that someone could be imprisoned in the Well below.
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I still say Rashid distracted DR while someone slipped across and took MW's walking stick.
Although there are a few others. Woj was we'd see more of 'focusing the tank' in CD's and that was someone holding/bogging down the heavy(better word than tank here I think) while someone else worked on the island.
*i'm confused by the OP's premise that Harry focused any tank?
It is the only WOJ we have regarding why Demonreach has a grudge against Rashid. Jim later clarified that he meant it in it's League of Legends context (as opposed to slightly different usages in WoW or DnD, Im guessing).
Sarks: In Storm Front, the 3Eye user in the police station noticed a stain on Harry's soul. Was this from his encounter with HWWB before his fight with his mentor, or is it due to his power over Outsiders?
Sarks: What did the Gatekeeper do to Demonreach to make it hold a grudge?
Jim: 2) He focused the tank. Oh, wait, no, it's a little more complicated than just a positive-negative situation, and while I don't go into the specifics, yet, you get all the pieces you need in Cold Days.
(Note: I included the 3eye question because they asked two in a row and I cant be 100% certain Jim wasnt answering both in the same statement.
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I think the problem for Jim was answering the 'do to Demonreach' part of the question. In a raid, you don't have to do anything to the raid leader for the raid leader to hold a grudge against you. What likely happened is that Rashid focused on something that was a diversion against something else passing through like say nemesis. Harry had a similar predicament in Cold Days, he had 3 attacks he had to win. He needed to defeat the rituals on the shores of the mainland, needed to defeat the Outsiders attack with an amphibious landing w/ Sharkface leading the charge, then he needed to defeat Maeve/Lily attack on Demonreach.
In this setup, Rashid acted like Maeve/Lily attacking Demonreach, while other important matters were taking place particularly the amphibious landing of the barge with the ritual atop it. The raid leader (likely our Tank or Healer) is upset with Rashid with messing up his role at least from the point of view of the raid leader who may or may not be right.
In my experience, Raid Leaders are usually either Tanks or Healers.
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It is the only WOJ we have regarding why Demonreach has a grudge against Rashid. Jim later clarified that he meant it in it's League of Legends context (as opposed to slightly different usages in WoW or DnD, Im guessing).
(Note: I included the 3eye question because they asked two in a row and I cant be 100% certain Jim wasnt answering both in the same statement.
Oh, I meant not the only theory, there are a few others.
i'm not sure if there's a quantifiable difference in tanking across games besides subsidiary roles from how the classes are set up. What I got from the Woj was he stopped the tank from bogging down, by buff, debuff or ole' fashion stonewalling another while they acted against DR or his erstwhile allies. The positive and negative comment an implication that the situation was not as simple as DR acting in unison with a bad guy, but rather as a result of his own functioning, his limitations.
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If Jim said that Cold Days was a clue about Rashid then it may be in fact that he locked down Alfred while others attacked a more vulnerable area. Sometimes the roll of the Tank is to protect the rest of a group (A Raid, where the group faces a Boss type character), or in this case, the Island from attack. One way to defeat the group is to lock down the Tank (through a mechanic known as crowd control), preventing them from providing protection.
For instance in a Raid the Tank focuses on grabbing aggro (aggression from the Boss), while the others launch an attack. It is an absolute must to keep the Tank alive, if the Tank dies the weaker classes get slaughtered by the Boss. Some ways this happens is the Tank gets crowd controlled (loss of control of character), and the Boss slaughters the group. If Rashid locked down or "focused" Alfred (contained him in a powerful Ward for example), that means the Island was vulnerable to attack from others.
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If Jim said that Cold Days was a clue about Rashid then it may be in fact that he locked down Alfred while others attacked a more vulnerable area. Sometimes the roll of the Tank is to protect the rest of a group, or in this case, the Island from attack. One way to defeat the group is to lock down the Tank (through a mechanic known as crowd control), preventing them from providing protection.
For instance in a Raid the Tank focuses on grabbing aggro (aggression from the Boss), while the others launch an attack. It is an absolute must to keep the Tank alive, if the Tank dies the weaker classes get slaughtered by the Boss. Some ways this happens is the Tank gets crowd controlled (loss of control of character), and the Boss slaughters the group. If Rashid locked down or "focused" Alfred (contained him in a powerful Ward for example), that means the Island was vulnerable to attack from others.
It might not be an attack. It could be that Rashid contained/controlled Alfred so that a prisoner could be deposited or freed. Either way it is a breach of protocol and a circumvention of the natural order on DR which Alfred would not take kindly too even if no harm was done.
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The word fumble means to use one's hands clumsily. However, if JB said Rashid fumbled in the football context, it would not be reasonable to argue Rashid was a linebacker that failed to prevent a touchdown because he clumsily used his hands during an attempted tackle. It would be clear that Rashid had possession of the ball and dropped it before he was down.
For the same reason as above, if Rashid focused the tank in the LoL context the only reasonable interpretation is that Rashid and DR were on the same team and Rashid attacked the wrong target.
The WOJ said we got the pieces we need in Cold Days. In CD the barges were the tank (the big obvious target that wants to be the target) and Maeve/Lily were the carries (the main offensive threat). Thus, we can conclude Rashid was a defender in a similar attack and focused on the barges.
This also fits with JB's clarification that it is a little more complicated than a positive-negative situation. That's because the barges weren't just a tank, they were also a legitimate offensive threat in their own right, just a lesser one than Maeve. Thus, one can't definitively say that Rashid made a mistake by focusing the barges, whereas focusing the tank in a team fight is always a clear cut negative.
With regard to the OP, it's possible Cowl was doing something else while Harry went after the red king, but calling the red Kinga tank would imply teamwork and I think it more likely that the reds were being used by, rather than working with Cowl.
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The word fumble means to use one's hands clumsily. However, if JB said Rashid fumbled in the football context, it would not be reasonable to argue Rashid was a linebacker that failed to prevent a touchdown because he clumsily used his hands during an attempted tackle. It would be clear that Rashid had possession of the ball and dropped it before he was down.
For the same reason as above, if Rashid focused the tank in the LoL context the only reasonable interpretation is that Rashid and DR were on the same team and Rashid attacked the wrong target.
The WOJ said we got the pieces we need in Cold Days. In CD the barges were the tank (the big obvious target that wants to be the target) and Maeve/Lily were the carries (the main offensive threat). Thus, we can conclude Rashid was a defender in a similar attack and focused on the barges.
This also fits with JB's clarification that it is a little more complicated than a positive-negative situation. That's because the barges weren't just a tank, they were also a legitimate offensive threat in their own right, just a lesser one than Maeve. Thus, one can't definitively say that Rashid made a mistake by focusing the barges, whereas focusing the tank in a team fight is always a clear cut negative.
With regard to the OP, it's possible Cowl was doing something else while Harry went after the red king, but calling the red Kinga tank would imply teamwork and I think it more likely that the reds were being used by, rather than working with Cowl.
Actually I think it would mean that He Who Walks Before was the Tank, and if Harry wasted too much time on him, he would have "focused" the Tank. Luckily Harry had Soulfire, and sent Before packing.
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If Jim said that Cold Days was a clue about Rashid then it may be in fact that he locked down Alfred while others attacked a more vulnerable area. Sometimes the roll of the Tank is to protect the rest of a group (A Raid, where the group faces a Boss type character), or in this case, the Island from attack. One way to defeat the group is to lock down the Tank (through a mechanic known as crowd control), preventing them from providing protection.
For instance in a Raid the Tank focuses on grabbing aggro (aggression from the Boss), while the others launch an attack. It is an absolute must to keep the Tank alive, if the Tank dies the weaker classes get slaughtered by the Boss. Some ways this happens is the Tank gets crowd controlled (loss of control of character), and the Boss slaughters the group. If Rashid locked down or "focused" Alfred (contained him in a powerful Ward for example), that means the Island was vulnerable to attack from others.
This is where the League of Legends reference is important. Carries (dps in raid terms) have moves that allow them to escape. Thus, you generally need your "cc" to prevent the carry from getting away while bursting the carry down. You might also use cc to protect your own carry from an assassin (highly mobile burst dps designed to quickly kill a carry). You generally don't want to use cc on the tank.
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Actually I think it would mean that He Who Walks Before was the Tank, and if Harry wasted too much time on him, he would have "focused" the Tank. Luckily Harry had Soulfire, and sent Before packing.
That is a good observation. Sharkface could be the tank, the barges the ADC (attack damage carry) and Maeve would be a split pusher.
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Yep, Harry magic had extra sting against sharkface that Rashid lacked.
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All of this talk is making me miss Dark Age of Camelot. I still feel like I'm the only one who ever played that game.
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I played and loved it. I wish they would just make it a free game so that I can play (cant justify 13 dollars a month on a game I would play only a few hours a week if that). Minus ToA of course.
Mid - Valk
Alb - Cleric and Cabalist
Hib - Sucked so I didn't play that.
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I played and loved it. I wish they would just make it a free game so that I can play (cant justify 13 dollars a month on a game I would play only a few hours a week if that). Minus ToA of course.
Mid - Valk
Alb - Cleric and Cabalist
Hib - Sucked so I didn't play that.
I quit sometime after the first expansion to jump into Dungeons and Dragons Online. I loved my Albion Armsman, and the Reaver was a lot of fun. Played a Theurgist for a while, but everyone just wanted me for Bladeturn, which got boring.
You know they've successfully funded a new game, right? The original developers from Mythic got back together to make Camelot Unchained, as a kind of spiritual successor. Looks like they're keeping a whole lot of the original stuff. Beta starts in a few months, if I remember right.
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I didn't know I will have to take a look at it. I loved the PvP aspect of the game. Things were balanced some what even if certain classes were op there was always a counter.
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So here's my take:
We have two datapoints:
1) In Turn Coat, Harry makes a certain connection between Rashid's mention of a grudge and the limp that Demonreach appears to have.
2) WoJ that the limp was caused by a glacier and Rashid "focused the tank" (which I personally take to mean that Rashid and DR were on the same side).
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First thing is, how could a glacier affect Demonreach?
a) Either Demonreach was created before the glacier appeared -- kinda hard since the last time the glaciers retreated was ~20,000 years ago. Granted the original Merlin did some timey-wimey stuff during creation, but still, Merlin himself was around ~1500 years ago, so why build Demonreach already wounded?
b) The second (and more likely IMHO) is that Demonreach got wounded with a glacier *after* it was created. How did this happen? Again, timey-wimey stuff. We've seen in Cold Days that the way to attack Demonreach is through some time-related magic. Obviously there was a previous assault. Consider the following notion: The bad guys cast a spell to divert a glacier 20,000 years ago so that it will overrun the foundations of Demonreach, retroactively weakening/destroying him.
For bonus points, take a look at the Amber Chronicles (either book 9 or 10) where someone tries to attack Corwin's Pattern in a similar manner. Jim's extensive connection with the Amberverse might be a clue here.
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So if Demonreach was being attacked with time-related magic, maybe Rashid didn't make his top priority stopping the spell -- attacking things in "real time" instead. This ultimately worked (Demonreach is still standing), but Demonreach did get partially injured, which is why it still holds a grudge.
Final note is that Rashid might have well known that he was doing thing inefficiently, but had different priorities. As an example, if innocent lives were at stake, Rashid might have preferred to prioritize saving them, knowing that Demonreach can take a beating.
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So here's my take:
We have two datapoints:
1) In Turn Coat, Harry makes a certain connection between Rashid's mention of a grudge and the limp that Demonreach appears to have.
2) WoJ that the limp was caused by a glacier and Rashid "focused the tank" (which I personally take to mean that Rashid and DR were on the same side).
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First thing is, how could a glacier affect Demonreach?
a) Either Demonreach was created before the glacier appeared -- kinda hard since the last time the glaciers retreated was ~20,000 years ago. Granted the original Merlin did some timey-wimey stuff during creation, but still, Merlin himself was around ~1500 years ago, so why build Demonreach already wounded?
b) The second (and more likely IMHO) is that Demonreach got wounded with a glacier *after* it was created. How did this happen? Again, timey-wimey stuff. We've seen in Cold Days that the way to attack Demonreach is through some time-related magic. Obviously there was a previous assault. Consider the following notion: The bad guys cast a spell to divert a glacier 20,000 years ago so that it will overrun the foundations of Demonreach, retroactively weakening/destroying him.
For bonus points, take a look at the Amber Chronicles (either book 9 or 10) where someone tries to attack Corwin's Pattern in a similar manner. Jim's extensive connection with the Amberverse might be a clue here.
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So if Demonreach was being attacked with time-related magic, maybe Rashid didn't make his top priority stopping the spell -- attacking things in "real time" instead. This ultimately worked (Demonreach is still standing), but Demonreach did get partially injured, which is why it still holds a grudge.
Final note is that Rashid might have well known that he was doing thing inefficiently, but had different priorities. As an example, if innocent lives were at stake, Rashid might have preferred to prioritize saving them, knowing that Demonreach can take a beating.
3rd Option on Demonreach: The Genus Loci (and the Limp) predate the creation of the Well itself, and was presumably one of the reasons that site was chosen.
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For bonus points, take a look at the Amber Chronicles (either book 9 or 10) where someone tries to attack Corwin's Pattern in a similar manner. Jim's extensive connection with the Amberverse might be a clue here.
Wait, didn't they try to use Earthquakes to destroy Corwin's Pattern?
I think you got it Knnn, or at least partially. Team Bad attempted to use natural forces to injure/destroy Demonreach.
This lends credence to my belief that something important is being guarded near Demonreach, near Yggdrasil on the Planar Level. It is something that is similar to Corwin's Pattern that lies near Yggdrasil. And we do know that Yggdrasil and Demonreach seem to intersect with Yggdrasil's roots reaching toward Demonreach's prison.
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Do we know that the limp was caused maliciously? Could it be that the island used to be larger or connected to the mainland, but was cut away by a glacier naturally? This would cause the Genus Loci was 'stranded' and cut off from what used to be a much larger area/domain. This would explain why even with the well spring, the Genus Loci is so powerful as well?
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I think that Demonreach, as the genius loci of the island, is a personification of what the island is and what it has been through. When Merlin "built" Demonreach, he pulled resources that were already there. The island remembers the damage that was done to it by the glacier, so that damage is built into the personification as well.
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I am getting two different thoughts here from this, maybe you could help me understand.
The last sentence makes sense to me.
The island remembers the damage that was done to it by the glacier, so that damage is built into the personification as well.
This is the part that has me confused.
I think that Demonreach, as the genius loci of the island, is a personification of what the island is and what it has been through. When Merlin "built" Demonreach, he pulled resources that were already there.
Are you insinuating that Merlin was responsible for building the Genius Loci as well as the prison on Demonreach?
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I am getting two different thoughts here from this, maybe you could help me understand.
The last sentence makes sense to me.
This is the part that has me confused.
Are you insinuating that Merlin was responsible for building the Genius Loci as well as the prison on Demonreach?
I think it was the opposite, that the Merlin used a Genus Loci that was already present.
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This is Merlin in the Amber series defeating an attack by the Logrus (Chaos) on Corwin's Pattern (Corwin is Merlin's father). Merlin is a son of both Order and Chaos, who later becomes King of Chaos. Corwin created a new universe/multiverse in walking/creating his Pattern while the Prime Pattern existed. As to parallels on identity of Merlin with Amber chronicles, they may be two distinct people with same name. If same person, then whoever sired Merlin would be the 'creator' in a sense of this multiverse. It also follows that the bloodline of this 'creator' is extremely important to undue the multiverse. In my guess guess that Corwin is Mac, Mac would have functional immortality and invincibility even on Halloween, etc, etc. He is safeguarded as 'god/God of this multiverse' as long as the multiverse exists. Only the person who created the "Corwin Pattern" or "Dresdenverse Pattern" would have this innate protection. The first few of his generations blood would only be what could damage it.
"We seem to have a problem," he said, "with rather extreme ramifications." The ground shook once again, twigs and leaves fell about us, pebbles bounced, dust rose, the fogs were agitated.I heard a dish break in the vicinity of the heavy red and white cloth about which Luke, Dalt, Coral, and Nayda sat eating. I drew them back on.There came another tremor, and I leaned against the tree for support. "Or is something bigger about to eat it?" Then, "Back when I drew the Pattern," he said, "I'd no way of knowing that this area was faulted, or that something like this would one day occur. If these shocks should crack the Pattern, we've had it-in more ways than one. As I understand it, that spikard you wear can draw upon enormous sources of energy.Is there some way you could use it to defuse this thing?"
"I never tried anything like it." "Find out fast, okay?" he said. Then I seized upon the one possessed of the most juice, drew hard upon it, filled myself, body and mind, with its energy. Ignition completed and engine idling, with me in the driver's seat, I shifted into gear then, extending a line of force from the spikard down into the ground. I reached for a long while, seeking a conversion metaphor to the subjective for anything I might discover. Wading out from the beach into the oceanwaves tickling my stomach, my chest-feeling with my toes the rocks, the strands of sea-weed...Sometimes a rock would turn, slip, bump against another, slide... But I saw the rocks, the wrack, in their disposition and movement, just the same, beheld them as clearly as if the bottom were fully illuminated. Feeling, feeling my way now, down through the strata, single toe soft as a flashlight's beam running along rocky surfaces, testing the pressures of one upon another, isostatic kisses of mountains beneath the earth, orogenic erogenies of slow movement, flesh caressing mineral in the darkest of secret places My body follows... I race ahead, pouring forth heat, cracking rock, splintering new pathways, outward, outward....It was coming this way. I broke through a wall of stone, another. Another. I was not certain this was the way to divert it, but it was the only one I knew to try. Go that way! Damn it! That way! I accessed two more channels, a third, a fourth I opened another channel. Within my metaphor the rocks grew stable beneath the waters. Shortly thereafter, the ground ceased its vibration. Feel it, feel it carefully. Describe a vector. Follow. Follow it to the point of original pressure. But no. This point is but a confluence of vectors. Trace them. More junctions. Trace them. Access more channels. The entire pressure structure, intricate as a nervous system, must be described. I must hold its tree within my mind. It may not be possible. I may be courting infinity in my topographic branchings. Freeze frame. Simplify the problem. Ignore everything beyond the tertiary. Trace to the next junction. There are some loops. Good. And a plate is now involved. Better. No good. Too big a picture to contain. Discard tertiaries. Yes. Vectors of transmission simply drawn-back to plate, almost. Pressure exerted less than full pressure extended. Why? Additional point of input along second vector, redirecting shear forces this valley. "Merlin? Are you all right?" "Let me be," I hear my voice respond. Extend then, input source, into, feeling, transmission signature... Is this a Logrus that I see before me? I opened three more channels, focused on the area, began heating it. My newly created magma flowed down fault lines. A hollowed-out area occurred at the point whence the precipitating force had originated. Back. I withdrew my probes, shut down the spikard. "What did you do?" he asked me. There's a small grotto there now.If it collapses it may ease the pressure even more." "So you've stabilized it?" I don't know the limits of the Logrus, but it's going to have to figure a new route to reach this place.Then it's going to have to test it out. And if it's doing a lot of Pattern watching just now, that may slow it." "Of course, the Pattern may move against us next." "I've brought everyone here because I thought they'd be safe from both Powers." "Apparently you made the payoff worth the risk." "I guess it's time to give them some other things to worry about." "Such as?" I looked at him, Pattern ghost of my father, guardian of this place.
The above text points out that Corwin unknowingly built his Pattern upon an Earthquake fault. In parallel to Amber Chronicles, Demonreach Prison was built on an area susceptible to glaciers. This then could tie into time travel attacks on Demonreach with glaciers being one part of teh equation. However I'd say glaciers are part of the natural state of things and formation of topography, there still could be an unnatural attack could have used the same. So, I do think there was a glacier that was part of the assault on Demonreach that wasn't simply 'natural'. This would then be consistent with Harry linking Rashid to Demonreach's limp and subsequent link of his limp to glacier.
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I think it was the opposite, that the Merlin used a Genus Loci that was already present.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Genius Loci can appear naturally, from what I remember. I think that Merlin's construction of The Well included changing the genus loci into something with greater awareness, and with a specific job.
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Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Genius Loci can appear naturally, from what I remember. I think that Merlin's construction of The Well included changing the genus loci into something with greater awareness, and with a specific job.
I think it was the opposite, that the Merlin used a Genus Loci that was already present.
Thanks makes more sense that way.
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You know, it seemed like the island or was it just the Prison was said to have been "placed there."
“What I mean,” he said, “is that I know about your island. I know where it came from. I know what it does. I know what’s beneath it.” “Uh,” I said. “Oh.” “I’m aware of how important it is that the island be well managed. Most of the people who came to your party in Mexico are.” By which he meant the Grey Council.
To me, it seems like Demonreach Island was transported to the Lake from somewhere else. It may have come from something near Avalon.
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You know, it seemed like the island or was it just the Prison was said to have been "placed there."
To me, it seems like Demonreach Island was transported to the Lake from somewhere else. It may have come from something near Avalon.
Im going to go with No for two reasons 1) It's too early in the week for that kind of headache, and 2) there was no indication of that sort of gross physical change in the History Film that Bob put together from Alfred's explanation.
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Im going to go with No for two reasons 1) It's too early in the week for that kind of headache, and 2) there was no indication of that sort of gross physical change in the History Film that Bob put together from Alfred's explanation.
I have to agree with this. I was also trying to frame the argument about why to move an island to the wellspring when a wizard could easily build one there with magic.
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I'd say it's likelier a fluctuation from previous epoch's. I can almost directly tie DR into an island/temple/prison in Tibet, after all.
Though that might be more relevant in truth if the place the Rakshasa attacked was the same place as well as Mouse's original Temple... same concept different version or my favorite, the entrance to reality from the land of dreams.
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If the Island was transported from anywhere, I think it was associated with Avalon. The island was placed there long before Merlin created the Prison.
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my question is why move an island? What makes the island of DR special is the well spring that flows up there not the island itself.
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If the Island was transported from anywhere, I think it was associated with Avalon. The island was placed there long before Merlin created the Prison.
Also it has some strong connotations to stone Henge which Merlin is known for moving(esp if it's MW's cabin, she has a faux stone henge around her house)
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We know at least partly what makes the Island special is the Prison beneath the Island. It is the Power from the entities trapped within bubbling up, that creates the leylines/leyline originating from the Island. It is possible that the Prison existed prior to the Island (within the NeverNever). Merlin then layed down a foundation on Earth of magic on the Island that created the Earthly Frame of the Prison. If the Island was located somewhere else then moved, it could be that it and it's associated connection to the NeverNever Prison was relocated to its current location.
Now to answer your question, why would this Island be important. Perhaps it is because Demonreach is associated with the Island. Whoever wanted to keep the Demonreach Island associated with the Prison had to MOVE the Island for some reason. Let's say, there was some natural calamity about to occur...Fault lines would split apart the Island, Earthquakes would place the island underwater, whatever led to the destruction of Atlantis would befell Demonreach Island. For whatever reason, Demonreach Island and it's connection to the Prison was in danger. It (Island) had to be moved and then the connection had to be reestablished. Merlin reestablished the connection and layed down the appropriate wards.
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I understand moving an island to ensure that there is a Genius Loci there to assist with management of the prison. We clearly see in bob's video, that Merlin builds the jail on the island as it is sitting there (or connects the island to the NN version of the prison). Now of course we are looking at bob's dumbing down so that Harry can understand.