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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: psuedonym on August 04, 2021, 12:23:26 AM
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Mollys multi colored hair before becoming the winter lady. Maeve had multicolored hair and Mabs nails and jewelry often go multicolored and opalescent, could molly's hair be foreshadowing or does Jim just think it cool?
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I think Mab and Maeve's colors are all winter colors, aren't they? And Molly's were originally full rainbow, I believe.
Ironically or otherwise, Molly has been Lady for a couple years now and she's stayed blonde the entire time.
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I mean, if you wanna see foreshadowing on Molly, just check out the mirrors representing her possible futures in her Soulgaze. Opal coloring is traditionally Winter-y in the DV. For early Molly hair dyes, I think it was just a punk aesthetic instead of specific foreshadowing.
Edit: I wonder if opals are significant beyond looking kinda ice-like? It wouldn't surprise me that the Winter coloring scheme had a nice dnd reference somewhere buried in there or something similar.
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My head canon is that in Molly's soulgaze mirrors we saw all the phases that Molly's life will go through.
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My head canon is that in Molly's soulgaze mirrors we saw all the phases that Molly's life will go through.
I line comes into my head about the Fae and "first born children," in reference to Molly. I think it was in "Proven Guilty," but I could be wrong about that or the line all together, frankly I cannot remember, but if it exists it is a huge foreshadowing.
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I line comes into my head about the Fae and "first born children," in reference to Molly. I think it was in "Proven Guilty," but I could be wrong about that or the line all together, frankly I cannot remember, but if it exists it is a huge foreshadowing.
Lea mentioned an interest in Michael's firstborn in Grave Peril.
"You have children, do you not?” She shivered
again and said, “Mortal children are so sweet. And
can be bent and shaped in so many, many ways.
Your eldest daughter, I think, would—”
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Lea mentioned an interest in Michael's firstborn in Grave Peril.
Thanks, I knew it was mentioned, well, if that isn't foreshadowing I don't what is. What further reinforces it is later in Ghost Story, Lea becomes "Auntie Lea" to complete Molly's training. And yup, she shaped her alright.. And once again Grave Peril proves itself to be one of the key books in the whole series as far as foreshadowing goes.
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Thanks, I knew it was mentioned, well, if that isn't foreshadowing I don't what is. What further reinforces it is later in Ghost Story, Lea becomes "Auntie Lea" to complete Molly's training. And yup, she shaped her alright.. And once again Grave Peril proves itself to be one of the key books in the whole series as far as foreshadowing goes.
Agreed, GP was the finale of Act 1 of the Dresden Files.
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Thanks, I knew it was mentioned, well, if that isn't foreshadowing I don't what is. What further reinforces it is later in Ghost Story, Lea becomes "Auntie Lea" to complete Molly's training. And yup, she shaped her alright.. And once again Grave Peril proves itself to be one of the key books in the whole series as far as foreshadowing goes.
Problem with this is that, unless Jim was talking in his misdirection talk, I remember him saying that none of the fae knew about Molly in GP. I've heard quite a few people say the same thing that Lea knew of Molly back then. So did Jim change the back story?
My head canon is that in Molly's soulgaze mirrors we saw all the phases that Molly's life will go through.
Seen this idea float around here before and I can see this being the case. Jim has said that Harry is an unreliable narrator. So this can be a case that Harry got the soul gaze wrong.
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Problem with this is that, unless Jim was talking in his misdirection talk, I remember him saying that none of the fae knew about Molly in GP. I've heard quite a few people say the same thing that Lea knew of Molly back then. So did Jim change the back story?
There are things/ideas that he has changed or misdirected from the early books. Read the first description Harry gives of that fateful day when Justin tried to bind him to his will in Summer Knight. It has changed a lot over several books.
Back to the point about Molly, perhaps not by name did Lea know her, but let's read again. From
Grave Peril;
"You have children, do you not?” She shivered
again and said, “Mortal children are so sweet. And
can be bent and shaped in so many, many ways.
Your eldest daughter, I think, would—”
She didn't have to know the name, just she knows Michael has an eldest daughter..
Seen this idea float around here before and I can see this being the case. Jim has said that Harry is an unreliable narrator. So this can be a case that Harry got the soul gaze wrong.
A soul gaze only takes a snap shot of that person in that point of time, and perhaps a view of possible futures... But the future is always in motion so things change, so you cannot say that Harry got the soul gaze wrong.. He saw several possible futures for her in Proven Guilty
1] Molly looking as though she were strung out on hard drugs with a "fey light" in her eyes.
Just checked the dictionary and according to it, "fey" means
giving an impression of vague unworldliness.
That kind of fits with a possible future Winter Lady gig don't you think?
2] Smiling, happy, older, a little plump surrounded by children..
If she decides to take her mother's route, that could very well be her future, there is no
reason to believe that Molly wouldn't make a good wife and mother.
3] Wearing a grey Warden's cloak, her face scared by battles yet to be fought.
Not unlike perhaps what Eb might have seen in his soul gaze of sixteen year old Harry. Harry
and Molly had that in common, possible warlock, but with guidance a brave Warden for the White
Council.
4] Basically a happy young woman, but perhaps a bit more secure..
5] At a desk working...
Not much to go on there, though I guess if you want take a real leap, future Winter Lady doing her job..
6] The last one looked like Molly, but wasn't, but someone all together evil;
But the eyes gave it away. They were flat as a reptile's, empty. She wore all black, including a black collar, and her hair had been died to match. Though she looked like Molly, like a human being, she was neither. She had become something else entirely, something, very, very bad.
The obvious is if she went full warlock with her mind powers, Molly would be a powerful evil force to recon with. But another thought hit me as I was copying the quote out of the book. Could this be the reason why Mab ordered Harry to kill Molly if something happened to her? Mab said that if Molly became Queen it would be unsettling, not just for the Court, but for everyone. Could the above be the future Molly that Mab saw if she became Queen prematurely? Mab wants a strong Queen to succeed her, but I doubt she wants an evil Queen that's into mind control. Notice that Harry says this version of Molly isn't human, but she looks human, well that defines what Mab is, doesn't it?
Then he comes away with the impression that Molly is a person of power.. That evil does hang over her, but it hadn't gained dominance.. With guidance she could turn out okay.. So was Harry wrong? So far I'd say no.
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A soul gaze only takes a snap shot of that person in that point of time, and perhaps a view of possible futures... But the future is always in motion so things change, so you cannot say that Harry got the soul gaze wrong.. He saw several possible futures for her in Proven Guilty
1] Molly looking as though she were strung out on hard drugs with a "fey light" in her eyes.
Just checked the dictionary and according to it, "fey" means That kind of fits with a possible future Winter Lady gig don't you think?
2] Smiling, happy, older, a little plump surrounded by children..
If she decides to take her mother's route, that could very well be her future, there is no
reason to believe that Molly wouldn't make a good wife and mother.
3] Wearing a grey Warden's cloak, her face scared by battles yet to be fought.
Not unlike perhaps what Eb might have seen in his soul gaze of sixteen year old Harry. Harry
and Molly had that in common, possible warlock, but with guidance a brave Warden for the White
Council.
4] Basically a happy young woman, but perhaps a bit more secure..
5] At a desk working...
Not much to go on there, though I guess if you want take a real leap, future Winter Lady doing her job..
6] The last one looked like Molly, but wasn't, but someone all together evil;
The obvious is if she went full warlock with her mind powers, Molly would be a powerful evil force to recon with. But another thought hit me as I was copying the quote out of the book. Could this be the reason why Mab ordered Harry to kill Molly if something happened to her? Mab said that if Molly became Queen it would be unsettling, not just for the Court, but for everyone. Could the above be the future Molly that Mab saw if she became Queen prematurely? Mab wants a strong Queen to succeed her, but I doubt she wants an evil Queen that's into mind control. Notice that Harry says this version of Molly isn't human, but she looks human, well that defines what Mab is, doesn't it?
Then he comes away with the impression that Molly is a person of power.. That evil does hang over her, but it hadn't gained dominance.. With guidance she could turn out okay.. So was Harry wrong? So far I'd say no.
For the possible futures, I interpret them as
1] Winter Lady Molly
2] Molly that set aside magic
3] Warden Molly
4] ? ? ?
5] ? ? ?
6] Denarian Molly
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Denarian Molly
Hadn't thought of that one, but I don't see it, as a "host" she'd still be human... What Harry sees isn't, though she still looks like Molly.
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Hadn't thought of that one, but I don't see it, as a "host" she'd still be human... What Harry sees isn't, though she still looks like Molly.
Human, but the Denarian form metaphorically peeking through since it's a soulgaze. There was a WoJ or a book quote somewhere about the Denarians loving to acquire a family member for one of the Knights of the Cross.
Denarian Dresden was also one of the options Jim considered instead of Winter Knight Harry in Changes, so it makes sense as far as a possibility for Molly from way back then.
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Human, but the Denarian form metaphorically peeking through since it's a soulgaze. There was a WoJ or a book quote somewhere about the Denarians loving to acquire a family member for one of the Knights of the Cross.
Denarian Dresden was also one of the options Jim considered instead of Winter Knight Harry in Changes, so it makes sense as far as a possibility for Molly from way back then.
It must be a WOJ because I don't remember it as a book quote. Granted I've forgotten a lot ::), but I think I'd remember that one. Not saying you're wrong, but considering where Molly is now, and what has happened to Mab over the centuries, I'm more inclined to think it is the Winter Queen gig. Specially the reason Mab gave for wanting her dead instead of Queen at this point.. "Unsettling," which I realize can mean almost anything, but vague as her comment was, it doesn't sound good.
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Mollys multi colored hair before becoming the winter lady. Maeve had multicolored hair and Mabs nails and jewelry often go multicolored and opalescent, could molly's hair be foreshadowing or does Jim just think it cool?
in another detail I've noticed, Maeves look actually changes to match changes Molly makes. Can't recall exactly what, but iirc after Molly gets her piercings Maeve gets the same one.
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1] Molly looking as though she were strung out on hard drugs with a "fey light" in her eyes.
2] Smiling, happy, older, a little plump surrounded by children..
3] Wearing a grey Warden's cloak, her face scared by battles yet to be fought.
4] Basically a happy young woman, but perhaps a bit more secure..
5] At a desk working...
6] The last one looked like Molly, but wasn't, but someone all together evil;
My crazy headcannon is that these are all future version of Molly that we have or will see.
1) Molly the Ragged Lady
2) Molly after Harry has destroyed the Fae Courts and freed her from the fae mantle.
3) Warden Molly in Mirror Mirror
4) We've already seen this one. It was Molly as Harry's apprentice.
5) When Harry summons Molly in PT, she's in business attire.
6) Queen Molly in vengeance mode.
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For the possible futures, I interpret them as
1] Winter Lady Molly
2] Molly that set aside magic
3] Warden Molly
4] ? ? ?
5] ? ? ?
6] Denarian Molly
Warlock Molly. If it is about possibilities one of them must be that.
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My crazy headcannon is that these are all future version of Molly that we have or will see.
1) Molly the Ragged Lady
2) Molly after Harry has destroyed the Fae Courts and freed her from the fae mantle.
3) Warden Molly in Mirror Mirror
4) We've already seen this one. It was Molly as Harry's apprentice.
5) When Harry summons Molly in PT, she's in business attire.
6) Queen Molly in vengeance mode.
pretty much mine too. I think that these, plus the seventh current timeline make up the main portion of the TT shenanigans.
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One was an emaciated version of Molly, as
though she’d been starved or strung out on hard
drugs, her eyes aglow with an unpleasant, fey light.
One was her smiling and laughing, older and
comfortably heavier, children surrounding her. A
third faced me in a grey Warden’s cloak, though a
burn scar, almost a brand, marred the roundness
of her left cheek. Still another reflection was Molly
as she appeared now, though more secure, l
laughter dancing in her eyes. Another reflection
showed her at a desk, working. But the last…
The last reflection of Molly wasn’t the girl. Oh, it
looked like Molly, externally. But the eyes gave it
away. They were flat as a reptile’s, empty. She wore
all black, including a black collar, and her hair had
been dyed to match. Though she looked like Molly,
like a human being, she was neither. She had
become something else entirely, something very,
very bad.
I think it's like the book said. Possibilities. Not necessarily actual branch realities or all things from the prime reality.
I think option one was if didn't get tutored by Harry, and ended up a junkie on the streets with a modest power.
I think option two was her giving up her power line her mom did, and being a vanilla mortal.
I think option three was her getting tutored by someone other than Harry. Luccio or Morgan perhaps.
I agree that option four is the road taken, tutoring under Harry.
Option five is the most nebulous. This could be her walking away from all of it and going to school. Not giving up her power, but not being trained, not getting drawn in, just her doing her thing on her own.
Option six is either her going full dark side, either via black magic, outsider corruption, or maybe even Black Court.
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I think option 1 is just what it appears to be, foreshadowing the events of Ghost Story. And the last the results had Harry not intervened.
Most of the other options have been foreclosed on. Molly can never be a Warden now. That ceased when Harry committed suicide. And unless Molly can get free of the mantle children aren't in the picture, or at least children in that context.
I would like to think that one of them was Molly after the events of the Dresden Files but personally I don't think her story has a happy ending. I seem to remember a WOJ on this. It's interesting to think that one of the possible options at the time of PG was Molly becoming the Lady.
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I think it's like the book said. Possibilities. Not necessarily actual branch realities or all things from the prime reality.
I think option three was her getting tutored by someone other than Harry. Luccio or Morgan perhaps.
🤔 even if you don't think they're directly connected to timelines why wouldn't this be the one where Harry teaches her tough lessons and burns her face with his little ball of sunshine? I think everyone of them isn't just a possible timeline, but a timeline Harry himself would set her down. Especially because of when/why he did the soul gaze. He was literally looking at the possibilities of his own influence or complete lack thereof.
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🤔 even if you don't think they're directly connected to timelines why wouldn't this be the one where Harry teaches her tough lessons and burns her face with his little ball of sunshine? I think everyone of them isn't just a possible timeline, but a timeline Harry himself would set her down. Especially because of when/why he did the soul gaze. He was literally looking at the possibilities of his own influence or complete lack thereof.
I don't think he was seeing his influence on her.. Or rather knowing Harry did have an influence up until that time for sure, but so did everything else in her life. Remember at the time of the soul gaze she had no clue of her mother's choices or what her mother was, nor did she have any clue of what the consequences of choices made by a person of talent.
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🤔 even if you don't think they're directly connected to timelines why wouldn't this be the one where Harry teaches her tough lessons and burns her face with his little ball of sunshine? I think everyone of them isn't just a possible timeline, but a timeline Harry himself would set her down. Especially because of when/why he did the soul gaze. He was literally looking at the possibilities of his own influence or complete lack thereof.
I look at them as the possibilities of her use of free will, not possibilities that revolve around Harry's free will.
It might look like it sometimes, but her life and fate doesn't and shouldn't revolve around Harry. I'd prefer to think her destiny was decided by her and not him.
In that moment, he could see what she could choose to do for herself.
- She could choose to run, to hide from the Council. She'd end up on her own on the street, desperate.
- She could go to the Council, give up her power, and live as a mortal revolving around family. A longshot, but possible.
- She could go to the Council, and let someone other than Harry (who would be harsher in discipline) train her.
- She could train with Harry.
- So many options for this one. It's too vague.
- Gives up power but leaves her family to go to school and have a career.
- Keeps power and aligns herself with Lara as an aide a la Justine.
- Gets tutored by Peabody and becomes a bureaucromancer.
- Ends up the Winter Lady and has to do a lot of paperwork.
- Also many options.
- She gets a coin.
- She gets possessed by Corpsetaker.
- She gets tutored under Peabody and becomes an evil bureaucromancer.
- She goes rogue and ends up as Cowl's apprentice.
- She goes rogue and ends up possessed by Beside or another Outsider.
- She gets turned into a Red Court vampire.
- She gets turned into a Black Court vampire.
- Some combination of these.
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I look at them as the possibilities of her use of free will, not possibilities that revolve around Harry's free will.
It might look like it sometimes, but her life and fate doesn't and shouldn't revolve around Harry.
of course it does, he's the protagonist 🤣
Seriously though, Molly isn't an adult paving her own way, she has agency sure and no idea what to do with it. she's looking for a guide as it is, someone to show her an example of what she can do next. Harry is it, on top of the extraordinary amount of influence he has in everyone around him. An with Harry literally making the next choices on how things will play out, giving her specific options to run with. Some of those fates more heavily influenced of course. But the cheek scar has long been fabled about. (Recently feeling like knowledge has been lost here, or perhaps those who originally possessed it to spout are no longer here 🤔 ) Your view is very watsonian imo, but ignores the Doyalism of it all.
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of course it does, he's the protagonist 🤣
Seriously though, Molly isn't an adult paving her own way, she has agency sure and no idea what to do with it. she's looking for a guide as it is, someone to show her an example of what she can do next. Harry is it, on top of the extraordinary amount of influence he has in everyone around him. An with Harry literally making the next choices on how things will play out, giving her specific options to run with. Some of those fates more heavily influenced of course. But the cheek scar has long been fabled about. (Recently feeling like knowledge has been lost here, or perhaps those who originally possessed it to spout are no longer here 🤔 ) Your view is very watsonian imo, but ignores the Doyalism of it all.
Unless there's some WoJ on it that I haven't seen (and there's a lot of WoJ I haven't seen, I avoided all of them for a long time, so it's a distinct possiblity), there's not much to go on from a Doylist perspective.
It seems to me like they can all be possibilities from that point, but for them to be truths in branch realities, and foreshadowing for those branches, it'd require that there be catalysts for branches. I tend to think branches are rare, but that's based on personal preference rather than evidence. I don't like the infinite-splinterverse concept.
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Molly never really was free. Charity failed her by keeping secrets. Harry let her in too close and in the end exposed her to things she might have missed had he worked to keep her clear. Mainly that means not putting her in a position where Mab and Lea could be involved with her life.
I think each image are visions of the story that Jim thought about writing. But he wrote the first one for sure and maybe the last.
Mab gave us one piece of foreshadowing when she told Harry to kill Molly if she fell. And the books have foreshadowed her death in Empty Night. Then there is this. Speaking of Mab...Her hair darkened as well to the same color, and her eyes turned entirely black, sclera and all, as did her nails. The skin seemed to cling harder to her bones, making her beautiful features gaunt and terrible.
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (pp. 60-61). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
The last reflection of Molly wasn’t the girl. Oh, it looked like Molly, externally. But the eyes gave it away. They were flat as a reptile’s, empty. She wore all black, including a black collar, and her hair had been dyed to match. Though she looked like Molly, like a human being, she was neither. She had become something else entirely, something very, very bad.
Seems pretty close.
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Molly never really was free. Charity failed her by keeping secrets. Harry let her in too close and in the end exposed her to things she might have missed had he worked to keep her clear. Mainly that means not putting her in a position where Mab and Lea could be involved with her life.
Yes and no, I know Mab put the responsibility of what happened to Molly squarely on Harry because he allowed her hero worship. However Harry had no clue either that Molly had talent until the damage was already done. Also the idea that Molly never was free is nonsense. Yes, she was young and the young often make foolish choices, but she still had free will to make choices. She could have gone to Harry when she discovered she had talent, she chose not to. That had consequences, and not just for her.
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Unless there's some WoJ on it that I haven't seen (and there's a lot of WoJ I haven't seen, I avoided all of them for a long time, so it's a distinct possiblity), there's not much to go on from a Doylist perspective.
Depends on how you define finding Doyalism perspectives. Jim has poured himself into his work as all writers, and has done numerous interviews about his work.(in which, he has discussed magic and world mechanics extensively) If you look at these things akin to a profiler looking at a crime scene or left messages then, there's alot to consider along the general lines of "why would they have this happen, what rules, tropes, or ideas did he use?". These are the things I try to consider with my own theorizing that usually make them seem so crazy from the other side lol. I'm pretty sure some things I've guessed with this have come to pass now, but I don't remember what offhand. Waiting/hoping on more, just cause they're really good plot hooks if I'm seeing them right.
It seems to me like they can all be possibilities from that point, but for them to be truths in branch realities, and foreshadowing for those branches, it'd require that there be catalysts for branches. I tend to think branches are rare, but that's based on personal preference rather than evidence. I don't like the infinite-splinterverse concept.
Fair enough, I actually enjoy multiversal stories, for various reasons good enough stories don't always have to make sense(all you zombies), though I prefer ones with definite rules. I think they're pretty basic in the DF, and the most defined evidence of them in action is those characters who have some talent in foresight. The alshavara cabbage patch doll thing, Steed, that one Ordo member. Now, whether those things are happening in tandom or are only possible flow of one single river of time is debatable I suppose. Could be that it's back to the future 2 like and the only thing we actually experience are the snippets of previous time travelers actions in changing the timeline.
As far as what I think we're seeing, is clue bat peeks into other timelines to be showcased later for either the MM or TT books. Iirc they put one clue for Molly being winter lady in the artwork, why not more? Jim likes his games, puns, and long con jokes, he uses imagery from things he's seen in pop culture and reimagines it for his own works, he keeps to his rules but doesn't adequately explain them in verse and uses Harry's own ignorance as the reasoning, he explains things in layers operating on an almost thaumaturgical scale for magic and how certain plot devices work. I always consider these points and more when I can
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Could be that it's back to the future 2 like and the only thing we actually experience are the snippets of previous time travelers actions in changing the timeline.
Or more simply, history repeats itself, time travel isn't needed.
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Or more simply, history repeats itself, time travel isn't needed.
that's a different theory altogether, and also one of mine, yea.
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that's a different theory altogether, and also one of mine, yea.
Well, my vote goes to history repeating itself, simply because the "time travel" theory is just
over done in my opinion.. Too much of a cop out, too easy, the repetition of history makes for
a more interesting story I think, because you know what is going to happen based on what has
gone on before, and how do you prevent it or make sure it does.
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Well, my vote goes to history repeating itself, simply because the "time travel" theory is just
over done in my opinion.. Too much of a cop out, too easy, the repetition of history makes for
a more interesting story I think, because you know what is going to happen based on what has
gone on before, and how do you prevent it or make sure it does.
Nah, the time travel book is the last one before the BAT. The Dresden Files is a detective story behind all the fantasy elements. The Black Council's actions are the mystery of the whole series. So, at the end, you have to do a big reveal of what happened for the readers to catch up on / relish that their theories were right. Since this is a big series with lots of players, that's going to take a lot of pages. You need basically a whole book for it. Further, it's a story with first person perspective, so you have to put Harry's eyes on the key events. Time travel with Harry in the background trying to not be seen and/or chasing another villain is the clever way Jim will do that, imo. After that makes a significant change, you can proceed full steam ahead to the big apocalyptic trilogy to cap off the series.
My guess, Jim has put in a number of time travel clues (e.g. Chichen Itza's hanging fuego) where you can dismiss them as something else, but are actually evidence of Future!Harry's involvement.
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Yes and no, I know Mab put the responsibility of what happened to Molly squarely on Harry because he allowed her hero worship. However Harry had no clue either that Molly had talent until the damage was already done. Also the idea that Molly never was free is nonsense. Yes, she was young and the young often make foolish choices, but she still had free will to make choices. She could have gone to Harry when she discovered she had talent, she chose not to. That had consequences, and not just for her.
Jim begs to differ. He wrote Proven Guilty and then Ghost Story. Your making Merlin's argument in Proven Guilty. And Uriel explicitly explains it at the end of Ghost Story and in Skin Game.
And like time travel or the multiverse or not, Jim has telegraphed how it will work and that he's going to do it.
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Jim begs to differ. He wrote Proven Guilty and then Ghost Story. Your making Merlin's argument in Proven Guilty. And Uriel explicitly explains it at the end of Ghost Story and in Skin Game.
And like time travel or the multiverse or not, Jim has telegraphed how it will work and that he's going to do it.
The merlin is not that interested in free will. It is more like "She is dangerous: kill her"
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Jim begs to differ. He wrote Proven Guilty and then Ghost Story. Your making Merlin's argument in Proven Guilty. And Uriel explicitly explains it at the end of Ghost Story and in Skin Game.
And like time travel or the multiverse or not, Jim has telegraphed how it will work and that he's going to do it.
indeed, it would seem to me he fit in both models, using the idea of conservation of history to double into why history repeats itself.
The mechanism for the actually resetting of time(but not history if that makes sense..) is open to debate,(though stars and stones may have some impact on it, a 2k year timeline has also been hinted at in places, like Woj asking whose in the 'know' like Nic and the answer being beings that have been around for a couple millennia) I prescribe to the gyre theory myself, where in time repeatedly inverts upon itself. So certain events and figures that have cut a deeper groove in time, things with more energy behind them, tend to repeat themselves on the timeline. Which is where we get variations of individuals who resemble each other in deed or stature, events that keep happening, ect.(Woj of Rashid being that last version of Harry and not enjoying it very much)
On the other hand, those beings have free will,(at least now that they're born human mostly?) And the actual manifestation of the timeline itself can vary immensely. Following the Merlinian backdrop I think Harry-Merlin, Marcone-Arthur/Uther, Ms Beckett-Morgana, Hendrix-Lancelot, Murphy was Guinevere, ect.
Course, since time is inverting with each repetition the actual results of each are different.. Murphy's domain was legal not magical, but she ran the other side of Marcones empire, Hendricks died loyal, Marcones a diseased moose Wang, ect. though, I've noticed that the major players on the inside have done things to fill in gaps where things didn't go where they would, either by design or accident. Vadderung took on the position of magical protection for Marcone, and sent Gard to fill the guin archetype, insuring he had a real chance to rise to power in the supernatural world. Gard, who I think was a previous version of Murphy as much as Rashid was Harry, ended up with Hendricks giving light to the Lancelot-Guin love affair, but it didn't cause any problems in this incarnation that I know of.. heck, Denton and co would make a good Questing Beast now that I consider it lol. Iirc he thinned out the knights early incarnation?
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All time travel stories are the same. In the case of the DF there is no reason to go forward. So if Harry must go, he has to go back. The only questions are how far and why.
For anyone who hates the multiverse there was a story that I read somewhere that says branching timelines are ghost timelines. That there is one primary branch and all branches off the primary eventually fade out or merge back, if it makes anyone feel better.The merlin is not that interested in free will. It is more like "She is dangerous: kill her"
The Merlin believes that Black Magic removes free will.
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All time travel stories are the same. In the case of the DF there is no reason to go forward. So if Harry must go, he has to go back. The only questions are how far and why.
For anyone who hates the multiverse there was a story that I read somewhere that says branching timelines are ghost timelines. That there is one primary branch and all branches off the primary eventually fade out or merge back, if it makes anyone feel better.The Merlin believes that Black Magic removes free will.
The time travel stories and multiverse stories are a good crutch or an easy way to get an author out of a corner he or she has written himself or herself into. However one can go to that well one too many times. I don't think you can call flash backs time travel, they are simply memory.
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The time travel stories and multiverse stories are a good crutch or an easy way to get an author out of a corner he or she has written himself or herself into. However one can go to that well one too many times. I don't think you can call flash backs time travel, they are simply memory.
you say that, but what story and what author uses it as a crutch to escape what impossible situation they've cornered themselves into? That's not a feature of TT or multiversal stories, that's a Deus ex machina and it's generally just lazy righting. That has nothing to do with them as actual plot devices and such uses wouldn't be prepared for the complexity of multiple timelines. In other words, don't blame plot hooks for crap authors writing crap stories.
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Merlin believes that Black Magic removes free will.
I do not think he denies that Molly can be saved. It is just that he thinks the whole thing is to dangerous and the resources can be better used somewhere else. He thinks it is a waste of time and effort. He was under Peabodies influence at the time but I do not think that shifted his opinions that much. Only a small push.
I never read him saying anything about free will.
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He would have executed Molly without a single qualm for something he believed she would become. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
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He would have executed Molly without a single qualm for something he believed she would become. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
And would have done, except on that occasion Harry politically out maneuvered him. A sin that
Harry paid for at the end of Battle Ground when he was kicked out of the White Council.
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He would have executed Molly without a single qualm for something he believed she would become. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
I read it that he just did not want to take the risk and put in the effort. Also straightforward.