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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Dina on June 25, 2023, 08:17:37 PM
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Someone else thinks that this plot device is wasted? In the first books it was mentioned a lot but then I think only the "die alone" and his effect in Harry's mind has been relevant. It seems a shame to not exploit it better.
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I think it represents that death curses, entropy curses, the Barabas curse and prophecy may have problems taking hold of Harry, each of these create pre-destination, creating a fixed point for Harry’s death, the opposite of free will, and it maybe related to his Starborn status.
The same would apply to Drakul, and to Listen. Drakul killed several wizards in BG and may have been hit by a couple of Death Curses before he even took on Harry.
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What do you mean? Cassius' curse? 🤷♂️ How do we know it isn't what made Rudy's gun misfire? It happened literally the same day Murphy hooked up with Dresden after all. That's a pretty big coincidence to try to ignore. I'm certain we'll see more with Lara too.
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I believe Uriel had words with Harry about that Death Curse indicating it had been discharged.
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I think death curses are tricky, for one thing I think you have to be aware that you are dying to throw one. If death happens quickly and unexpectedly, there isn't time to throw it. Harry did "die alone" but he fell into icy cold water into Mab's arms and was revived, end of curse. Also as Malcolm pointed out to him, everyone dies alone, so the curse wasn't much of a curse. In the case of Margaret, she knew sooner or later Lord Raith would murder her, so she had one prepared and apparently had time, and I imagine it took merely a word or thought, or even her dying breath that triggered it.
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Margaret linked her death curse to Thomas and Harry’s blood (to which she was also linked) it was constantly renewing. Cassius curse was one and done, as was Simon’s.
Indeed we can project that Peabody undermined the brute squad to get the info to access Simon’s fortress, Peabody passed them to Cowl who passed them to the Eeb’s and the Red King’s faction. The Eeb’s as usual led from behind and survived that death curse, allowing it to play out against everyone ahead of them.
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I believe Uriel had words with Harry about that Death Curse indicating it had been discharged.
we have woj answering that we'll see in future books on if it was discharged in Harry dying once. Our interpretation of the curse has less to do with it than his actual intentions. He'd been denied what was basically his closest partner in life, his coconspirator. I think he intended that Harry shouldn't have someone like that, like a fallen, a lover, ECT. And that like Cassius, he should 'die alone', divested of anyone truly close. More to say on death curses later..
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we have woj answering that we'll see in future books on if it was discharged in Harry dying once. Our interpretation of the curse has less to do with it than his actual intentions. He'd been denied what was basically his closest partner in life, his coconspirator. I think he intended that Harry shouldn't have someone like that, like a fallen, a lover, ECT. And that like Cassius, he should 'die alone', divested of anyone truly close. More to say on death curses later..
Yes, but unless he alienates Maggie, Michael, Butters, Sanya, and if he can figure out a way to help Thomas, he won't be alone... Or three of the above mentioned might be dead because being a Wizard Harry will outlive them... Oh forgot to mention Molly as well, Harry will never be really alone, but as a starborn, his destiny may set him apart from everyone. Still, dying alone is no curse, your loved ones even if they are there can only watch, they cannot go through the process with you. Even if there is a reason you die at the same time as others.... Death is individual to each of us, and yes, I've had loved ones who did chose to die alone..
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Unless you spectacularly equate having friends with being married or having a life partner, not really the same.
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Me too, Mira. And I agree "alone" is relative. My grand=grand-mother died in her sleep, in her bed, with my grand mother in another bed in the same room. Did she die alone? My grandmother and my mother died in hospitals, with several people around actively trying to save them. Did they die alone? The three of them had loving family and friends. In my personal opinion, they died alone in the sense that Mira says, but probably not in the sense Cassius intended. There is a chance that The_Sibelis is right, and Cassius curse was what directed Rudy's bullet to Murphy. On the other hand, I think it would be weird that Cassius was able to do such a powerful curse, that could affect the physical world many years (and many sunsets) after his own demise, without having anything powering it (like Maggie's blood). So...I don't know. And I would like to have an answer about that.
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I would point out that Father Forthill in Ghost Story was on the verge of being shepherded to his afterlife by an angel of death. He was not alone.
Cassius was a former Denarian, as such he should know about Angels of death. Was this Cassius intent? To try to prevent Harry from from being shepherded to his afterlife so that others may hijack his spirit to take it elsewhere, as was feared for Forthill?
As I point out Harry is extremely resistant to anything which preordains his death, but afterwards? Unfortunately for Cassius though Harry has an Archangel watching over him.
Cassius wasn’t trying to kill Harry, he was trying to damn him,
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Me too, Mira. And I agree "alone" is relative. My grand=grand-mother died in her sleep, in her bed, with my grand mother in another bed in the same room. Did she die alone? My grandmother and my mother died in hospitals, with several people around actively trying to save them. Did they die alone? The three of them had loving family and friends. In my personal opinion, they died alone in the sense that Mira says, but probably not in the sense Cassius intended. There is a chance that The_Sibelis is right, and Cassius curse was what directed Rudy's bullet to Murphy. On the other hand, I think it would be weird that Cassius was able to do such a powerful curse, that could affect the physical world many years (and many sunsets) after his own demise, without having anything powering it (like Maggie's blood). So...I don't know. And I would like to have an answer about that.
Yes, I had a dear friend who told her beloved brother to leave her bedside because she wanted to die alone, and she did a few hours later. My husband died alone, the Hospice nurse said it was very common for patients to die between shifts when there is no one in the room. The Murphy thing doesn't quite work for me either, because in the final battle as one of Odin's fighters who is to say she won't be with Harry when his time comes? Or yes, Harry loved Murphy, but more than Molly or Maggie? I still think it was more something Cassius said to frighten than a real curse... Or there is this also, Cassius never was the brightest penny and most likely wasted his death curse on something that really isn't a curse.
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Me too, Mira. And I agree "alone" is relative. My grand=grand-mother died in her sleep, in her bed, with my grand mother in another bed in the same room. Did she die alone? My grandmother and my mother died in hospitals, with several people around actively trying to save them. Did they die alone? The three of them had loving family and friends. In my personal opinion, they died alone in the sense that Mira says, but probably not in the sense Cassius intended. There is a chance that The_Sibelis is right, and Cassius curse was what directed Rudy's bullet to Murphy. On the other hand, I think it would be weird that Cassius was able to do such a powerful curse, that could affect the physical world many years (and many sunsets) after his own demise, without having anything powering it (like Maggie's blood). So...I don't know. And I would like to have an answer about that.
alright so on this. didn't Harry feel it 'hook' or 'sink' in? I always figured it was carried within him, classic curse style. Could be Harry's actively feeding the curse(Cassius was WEAK, not dumb. He had the same fallen that turned Marcone into a sorcery powerhouse in less than a decade, and it was all from knowledge) or it's just not spent itself yet. Death curses consume... Well everything? Depending on the nuances of this it could hold the power of every decision or action they could ever make, the soul fire itself cast into it?🤷♂️ Either way, one life has a lot of power in it... And I confess another ironic possibility. If it did kill Murphy, was Murphy ergo sacrificed to the curse giving it greater energy? I think Cassius laid out a classic and proper curse, just with in the moment intentions behind it. Could be gaining power instead of losing it. Attaching it to a life is just one way we do know of that can empower it. An this leads to another even more ironic possibility. Curse or no curse, it was Harry's own magical aura reacting with the gun that caused the misfire.
An honestly, if we ask what would hurt Harry the most? That's the Occam answer.
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alright so on this. didn't Harry feel it 'hook' or 'sink' in? I always figured it was carried within him, classic curse style. Could be Harry's actively feeding the curse(Cassius was WEAK, not dumb. He had the same fallen that turned Marcone into a sorcery powerhouse in less than a decade, and it was all from knowledge) or it's just not spent itself yet. Death curses consume... Well everything? Depending on the nuances of this it could hold the power of every decision or action they could ever make, the soul fire itself cast into it?🤷♂️ Either way, one life has a lot of power in it... And I confess another ironic possibility. If it did kill Murphy, was Murphy ergo sacrificed to the curse giving it greater energy? I think Cassius laid out a classic and proper curse, just with in the moment intentions behind it. Could be gaining power instead of losing it. Attaching it to a life is just one way we do know of that can empower it. An this leads to another even more ironic possibility. Curse or no curse, it was Harry's own magical aura reacting with the gun that caused the misfire.
An honestly, if we ask what would hurt Harry the most? That's the Occam answer.
Still doesn't work, because it was Murphy's own choices that led to her death, not a curse. Anyway, as a vanilla mortal, she would have died with in the next fifty years, before Harry anyway unless he was killed somehow..
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Still doesn't work, because it was Murphy's own choices that led to her death, not a curse. Anyway, as a vanilla mortal, she would have died with in the next fifty years, before Harry anyway unless he was killed somehow..
Quite a total waste of a perfectly good death curse. Harry would have outlived all of his vanilla paramours. This is why I don’t think the curse was meant to kill, it was to make Harry suffer, which is why I think it was designed to block the Angel of Death from protecting Harry. Now the Angel showed up to protect Forthill in Ghost Story when there was the potential for his death. The same must have applied during Changes with Harry, but Uriel stepped up protecting Harry’s spirit from being collected by the Fallen, and that WAS something within Uriel’s capacity to act to work against the Fallen in the mortal world I think this is why we get the entire Angel of Death/Forthill sub-plot and that the curse is now fully discharged.
Thinking about it, without the Death Curse, Uriel wouldn’t have been able to help Harry in Ghost Story at all.
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Still doesn't work, because it was Murphy's own choices that led to her death, not a curse.
I don't know what book you're reading but lemme know?
1 HOW does it not work based on
2 Murphy's choices leading to her death means what here?
3and how does that make for not a curse?
Far as I know the blame chose to attack Harry, placing him in exactly the wrong spot to be hit by a frozen turkey. If he chose this is entirely subjective based on some far out there assignment of what constitutes free will sure?
But it was still a curse that did it. So I really fail to see whatever it is your getting at beyond,"i disagree and Harry will outlive most mortals."
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1 HOW does it not work based on
2 Murphy's choices leading to her death means what here?
3and how does that make for not a curse?
Far as I know the blame chose to attack Harry, placing him in exactly the wrong spot to be hit by a frozen turkey. If he chose this is entirely subjective based on some far out there assignment of what constitutes free will sure?
But it was still a curse that did it. So I really fail to see whatever it is your getting at beyond,"i disagree and Harry will outlive most mortals."
Murphy was injured, right? Harry asked her to stay at Mac's place, right?She chose to leave. Oh back up a minute, she chose to remove her cast and go with him in the first place, right? She chose to leave those who Harry asked her to protect at Mac's place to go after Harry, right? ALL were her choices, what happened to her afterward is a result of her choices.. She chose to go into battle, in battle sometimes death happens, she understood that, her choice to go. Yes, her death was stupid and needless, but being in that spot to die was her own doing, not the result of some death curse on Harry.
Point of fact for Harry and his wizard peers, they will outlive most of their vanilla mortal friends and lovers. If they meet them at the age that Harry met Murphy.. Do the math, vanilla humans at best live to be a hundred if all goes well, wizards on the other hand live for 300 years or more.. Murphy's death is no more part of the "die alone" curse than you can say Eb is under the same curse because his wife is dead.
Also I suggest you reread what Malcolm told Harry in his vision, "we all die alone.." In other words though the words of Cassius sound bad, it wasn't a real curse.
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Murphy was injured, right? Harry asked her to stay at Mac's place, right?She chose to leave. Oh back up a minute, she chose to remove her cast and go with him in the first place, right? She chose to leave those who Harry asked her to protect at Mac's place to go after Harry, right? ALL were her choices, what happened to her afterward is a result of her choices.. She chose to go into battle, in battle sometimes death happens, she understood that, her choice to go. Yes, her death was stupid and needless, but being in that spot to die was her own doing, not the result of some death curse on Harry.
yes that's what I thought you'd say. But making an unlimited number of choices that leads you to someone else MURDERING you is never going to track as a choice. Hence murder and not "assistance leaving"
So Na. Unless you wanna argue the family who loaded up chose to get hit by the drunk driver because they knew drunk drivers drive on roads let's not, because I didn't want to to begin with. (I think you're confabulating free will, choice and someone actually cheating in the DF into one thing here, just because nobody outright cheated doesn't make it her choice)
Point of fact for Harry and his wizard peers, they will outlive most of their vanilla mortal friends and lovers. If they meet them at the age that Harry met Murphy.. Do the math, vanilla humans at best live to be a hundred if all goes well, wizards on the other hand live for 300 years or more.. Murphy's death is no more part of the "die alone" curse than you can say Eb is under the same curse because his wife is dead.
the fact that Murphy WILL die has no actual bearing on when and how she died. Your mashing lines of logic together that don't fit.
A. Murphy is mortal and WILL pass in time
Has nothing to do with
B. How and why Murphy died here in.
And then you actually point out a similar logical fallacy about EB? Saying Murphy WILL die has no bearing on HOW she did die.
Also I suggest you reread what Malcolm told Harry in his vision, "we all die alone.." In other words though the words of Cassius sound bad, it wasn't a real curse.
okay, it's fine to have that opinion if you want. I'd ask that you please use a bit more thought into how you respond to other people's ideas please. Multiple times now you've told me this is wrong based on opinion, heresay and a bad logical grouping. If you wanna discuss the merits of a theory, cool 👍 this doesn't feel like that.
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At one point in the narrative Harry will be dyeing something for Maggie and realise that there is no one else in the room with him and that Cassius really, really was a poor excuse for a wizard for whom English was not his first language.
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Here is the quote from Dead Beat where Malcolm and Harry talk about "death curse" that supposedly Cassius put on Harry.
page 420, Dead Beat, paperback Bolding mine.
Harry is looking down at what it says on the grave stone Bianca had given him.
He died doing the right thing," my father read.
"Maybe I should change it to,'he died alone,'I said.
My father smiled a little."Thinking of the death curse, eh?"
"Yeah. 'Die alone.'" I stared down at my open grave. "Maybe it means I'll never be with anybody. Have love. A wife. Children. No one who is really close. Really there.
"Maybe," my father said. "What do you think?"
"I think that's what he wanted to do to me. I think I'm so tired that I'm hallucinating. And that I hurt. And that I want someone to be holding my hand when it is my time. I don't want to do it alone."
"Harry," my father said, and his voice was very gentle, "can I tell you something?"
"Sure."
He walked around the grave and put his hand on my shoulder.
"Son. Everyone dies alone. that's what it is. It is a door. It's one person wide. When you go through it, you do it alone."His fingers squeezed me tight. "But it doesn't mean you've got to be alone before you go through that door. And believe me, you aren't alone on the other side."
I frowned and looked up at my father's image, searching his eyes."Really?"
He smiled and drew his finger in an X on his chest. "Cross my heart."
I looked away from him. "I did things. I made a deal I shouldn't have made. I crossed a line."
"I know," he said. "It only means what you decide it means."
I looked up at him. "What?"
"Harry, life isn't simple. There is such a thing as black and white. Right and wrong. But when you are in the thick of things it is hard to tell."
So what was Malcolm trying to tell Harry exactly? Death is a door, one one person goes through it at a time, alone... But that doesn't mean he has to be alone before he goes through.. Does that mean when he actually dies, he has to have someone with him holding his hand? Or does it mean being loved as we go through life? Harry has had love, not just Murphy, but Susan, he is loved, he has children, he has friends, he has never been truly alone in life no matter how many loved ones he has lost. Malcolm also tells him he won't be alone on the other side as we saw in Ghost Story, indeed not.. Malcolm finally tells him the curse only means, "what he thinks it means." In other words Harry can get all worked up and be afraid about something that really is only in his own head and not a real curse.. Yes, sad and tragic that Murphy and Susan died, but he knew their love, so is it a real curse because they died first?
I will leave you with a line from a love song from an old movie called, "The Rains Came." It talks about dying, then finishes with, "but in your heart my love has found a home, and it can never die..." In Harry's heart Murphy's love has found a home, it can never die, thus he will not die alone...
Cassius wasn't the brightest penny in the purse, he didn't think things through, he actually thought that Nic would take him back and give him another coin after he gave his up in surrender to Michael and Sanya. He was now swiftly growing old, unlike Harry, he had no loved ones in his life, he was going to die soon, and very much alone... So he cursed Harry with his own pain, the thought of dying alone. But in Harry's case, as long as he is loved, he will never truly be alone. What under scores this is what Harry says on the top of the next page.. 421 Dead Beat paper back version.
"As long as you believe you are responsible for your choices, you still are. You've got a good heart son. Listen to it.
He vanished into the night, and somewhere in the city, bells started tolling midnight.
I stared at my waiting grave, and I suddenly realized that death was not really my biggest worry.
He died doing the right thing.
God, I hope so.
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Random thought on the death curse theory, Harry also got shot right before he hooked with Murphy.
Gotta wonder, how insidious do they get? Cassius was a many headed snake wasn't he? Just like his multiple snake manifestation? I expect his magic might be slithering and worming it's way through it's actions and setting up odd coincidences to achieve it's aims instead of direct force. It'd be much better efficiency.
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Random thought on the death curse theory, Harry also got shot right before he hooked with Murphy.
Gotta wonder, how insidious do they get? Cassius was a many headed snake wasn't he? Just like his multiple snake manifestation? I expect his magic might be slithering and worming it's way through it's actions and setting up odd coincidences to achieve it's aims instead of direct force. It'd be much better efficiency.
Remember Harry also heard the curse in his head as he fell into the water, but he wasn't alone, he fell into Mab's waiting arms. Nor was he alone when his spirit did it's walk about, so what Malcolm told him still holds true. What Malcolm told him came from Malcolm's experience of dying.. While the curse of Cassius sounds terrible, but since Cassius had had no real experience of being dead or dying, it just sounds worse than it really is... And in fact is no curse at all.
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Remember Harry also heard the curse in his head as he fell into the water, but he wasn't alone, he fell into Mab's waiting arms. Nor was he alone when his spirit did it's walk about, so what Malcolm told him still holds true. What Malcolm told him came from Malcolm's experience of dying.. While the curse of Cassius sounds terrible, but since Cassius had had no real experience of being dead or dying, it just sounds worse than it really is... And in fact is no curse at all.
nor did he actually die so 🤷♂️ must be that's not the right interpretation of the curse.
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Harry’s simple solution become immortal.
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nor did he actually die so 🤷♂️ must be that's not the right interpretation of the curse.
But he did hear it, and as Mab said herself, "death is a spectrum.." Harry died, but no so far on that road that he couldn't return.
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But he did hear it, and as Mab said herself, "death is a spectrum.." Harry died, but no so far on that road that he couldn't return.
that's a matter of opinion a few in book characters disagree with, including butters. It's actually implied that's his subconscious mocking him. Not actually Cassius.
And so we're clear, how is this Remember Harry also heard the curse in his head as he fell into the water, but he wasn't alone, he fell into Mab's waiting arms. Nor was he alone when his spirit did it's walk about, so what Malcolm told him still holds true. What Malcolm told him came from Malcolm's experience of dying.. While the curse of Cassius sounds terrible, but since Cassius had had no real experience of being dead or dying, it just sounds worse than it really is... And in fact is no curse at all.
actually a linear reply to this Random thought on the death curse theory, Harry also got shot right before he hooked with Murphy.
Gotta wonder, how insidious do they get? Cassius was a many headed snake wasn't he? Just like his multiple snake manifestation? I expect his magic might be slithering and worming it's way through it's actions and setting up odd coincidences to achieve it's aims instead of direct force. It'd be much better efficiency.
instead of just taking the longer route to tell me I'm wrong on an unrelated thread of wether or not it's a curse, if it's that bad, ect. This is a random thought on a pre-existing theory not an invitation to expound upon your differences..? Seems to me your assertion he wasn't alone is proof enough that either A that's not part of the curse despite hearing it or B 🤷♂️ we obviously don't know exactly what the curse is doing outright and should discuss it further
Now then let's see, Mira
how if he wasn't alone was his death in any way related to the discharging of the curse? I'd he's meant to be alone after death then how could Uriel have arrived? Is the difference in power so great weak snakebite could actually waylay a divine agent but CAN'T stop Uriel? Is Cassius as strong as an angel without his fallen? Yet somehow can't lay out a proper curse? If it was no curse at all what EXACTLY did Harry feel slither over him when Cassius released his non-curse? How can you know Cassius had no real experience with death or dying? If you don't know the curses intentions, how can if sound worse than it really is, is not the death of all possible significant others bad enough?
How come Cassius wasted his entire death curse on a non curse with no intentions behind it whatsoever? *Steeples fingers* I'm tired of being on the defensive because I want to speak my thoughts. I've always had questions, now I'll start asking for answers.
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Uriel has a particular interest in Harry and all that is required is to delay an Angel of death for Harry’s soul to be waylaid, a mortal curse giving a way in for the infernal from the NeverNever, it’s the same as whistling in an Outsider.
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Uriel has a particular interest in Harry and all that is required is to delay an Angel of death for Harry’s soul to be waylaid, a mortal curse giving a way in for the infernal from the NeverNever, it’s the same as whistling in an Outsider.
sure. Except the counter argument here is Cassius is too weak and stupid to do better than waste his curse on something that wasn't a curse. That he gathered up all this energy and life left to live and poofed it into nothingness contrary to Einstein being as relevant as his theory in the DF.
Though for a more sensical argument not predicated on being smug about it.
Is the difference in power scale between an angel of death and Uriel so great that Cassius can be reasonably strong enough to waylay one but not catch the other in the same net?
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Cassius had been communing with a Fallen for Centuries, for all we know he had planned this in advance with a Fallen, in which case a Fallen Angel would equal an Angel of Death with surprise and mortal magic to sway the match, but Uriel is as powerful as Lucifer, his limitations prevent him from acting unless a Fallen is in play which Cassius did do.
Frankly Cassius didn’t think this out, he is hell bound and had he managed to have Harry shanghaied, who do you think he would have been assigned as a roommate?
An eternity of Harry cracking wise on his ass would make eternity especially long for Cassius. Uriel’s saved both Harry and Cassius.
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Cassius had been communing with a Fallen for Centuries, for all we know he had planned this in advance with a Fallen, in which case a Fallen Angel would equal an Angel of Death with surprise and mortal magic to sway the match, but Uriel is as powerful as Lucifer, his limitations prevent him from acting unless a Fallen is in play which Cassius did do.
Frankly Cassius didn’t think this out, he is hell bound and had he managed to have Harry shanghaied, who do you think he would have been assigned as a roommate?
An eternity of Harry cracking wise on his ass would make eternity especially long for Cassius. Uriel’s saved both Harry and Cassius.
I think the point you both are missing here is it was a piss poor curse to begin with. Sounds terrible but in reality didn't amount to much, that was what Malcolm explained to Harry..
repeat Dead Beat page 420
"Son. Everyone dies alone. that's what it is. It is a door. It's one person wide. When you go through it, you do it alone."His fingers squeezed me tight. "But it doesn't mean you've got to be alone before you go through that door. And believe me, you aren't alone on the other side."
I frowned and looked up at my father's image, searching his eyes."Really?"
He smiled and drew his finger in an X on his chest. "Cross my heart."
I looked away from him. "I did things. I made a deal I shouldn't have made. I crossed a line."
"I know," he said. "It only means what you decide it means."
Once Malcolm took the sting out of the curse, Harry wasn't afraid of it anymore, once that happened it became a non curse.. Yeah, at the end of Changes when he was shot through the heart and falling in the water he heard in his head Cassius cursing him, "die alone.." You can argue that he was only mostly dead when he fell into Mab's arms, but for 98% of Ghost Story Harry was convinced that he was all dead. Did you hear him complain once about having died alone? Did he seem to suffer from it? The answer is, no, he did not... Conclusion, piss poor meaningless curse. Even Murphy's death loses it's sting of you want to count that towards Harry "dying alone" because his true love died before him, heck, she is in Valhalla, one of Odin's soldiers now, so there is always the hope that he will see her again.. Or given what Malcolm said, she will be there for him when he dies someday.
Now Margaret's death curse on Lord Raith was a serious curse, the vamp cannot feed and has become an impotent figurehead... Now for someone like Lord Raith, that was a serious long term curse that has made him suffer.
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As I said Cassius hadn’t thought it through, being a piss poor wizard, but the Fallen he dealt with probably had. He likely tried to piggyback off of someone more powerful.
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As I said Cassius hadn’t thought it through, being a piss poor wizard, but the Fallen he dealt with probably had. He likely tried to piggyback off of someone more powerful.
🤦♂️🤷♂️ of course! He's dealt with hell already and is leveling his death curse anyway. Why wouldn't he sell himself to something in particular in hell since he's going there anyway? "Give my last curse lasting oomph and I offer my soul" sorta thing.
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He’s also on the point of old age catching up with him, and it’s not Cassius Soul which a Fallen would prize, it’s Harry’s.
This makes me worry that Mirror Mirror Harry is Southward Bound and Uriel isn’t going to help him. There is only one Uriel in the Multiverse.
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When Harry died at the end of Changes did that count against "crowd rumbling"
I think you're the biggest guy here you should be fine
*laughter
Does that against the death curse for him that he would die alone?
No not really (yay for inconsistency) because he more or less wasn't actually dead, he was just on life support and so far gone that his spirit was floating out there somewhere, basically Mab was just maintaining the silver cord that entire time until his body, until the wizard metabolism could start healing him back up.
ah yes. A reason to dig up old works that I know reinforce what I've already said. A good jaunt tonight to exercise my knowledge in the Dresden files. 😊
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I would point out that Father Forthill in Ghost Story was on the verge of being shepherded to his afterlife by an angel of death. He was not alone.
Cassius was a former Denarian, as such he should know about Angels of death. Was this Cassius intent? To try to prevent Harry from from being shepherded to his afterlife so that others may hijack his spirit to take it elsewhere, as was feared for Forthill?
As I point out Harry is extremely resistant to anything which preordains his death, but afterwards? Unfortunately for Cassius though Harry has an Archangel watching over him.
Cassius wasn’t trying to kill Harry, he was trying to damn him,
I think that Angel of Death would laugh at any human's Death Curse, except she does not seem the laughing type. She said Satan himself could not stop her from performing her duty. I think, in this role... she is stronger than Uriel. (Azrael?)
And I think it was Kumori said Cowl would not fear Harry's Death Curse, so if the gap in power is bg enough, it gets negated. Also possible Harry will get strong enough to shrug off the curse.
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And I think it was Kumori said Cowl would not fear Harry's Death Curse, so if the gap in power is bg enough, it gets negated. Also possible Harry will get strong enough to shrug off the curse.
I think if she said it, I don't doubt you, I just don't remember her saying it.. But if she said it, I think it might be simply bravado on her part. I was going to say unless Cowl isn't human, but then Lord Raith came to mind, is a vamp of the White Court considered human? Margaret's curse was very effective on him, so if one does one's homework on Cowl I think it is possible to come up with an effective death curse. Following the same logic, I don't think anyone is so strong to neutralize a well targeted death curse.
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I think it is a matter of targeting, Cowl is not welLestablished enough as and identity for a curse to latch. It’s like cursing David Bowie instead of David jones. It’s like Uriel and Mr Sunshine.
Worse if Cowl is Nameless then there is no proper name for the curse to bite on, Cowl is doubly protected, indicating that Kumori knows this. Suggesting if her identity is revealed she can definitely reveal Cowl’s
If it is Sarissa, she is now subject to summer Law and now can’t lie to Harry. She has avoided interaction with Harry at Pewce Talks and Battle Ground but likely can’t during Next Book.
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I think it is a matter of targeting, Cowl is not welLestablished enough as and identity for a curse to latch. It’s like cursing David Bowie instead of David jones. It’s like Uriel and Mr Sunshine.
Worse if Cowl is Nameless then there is no proper name for the curse to bite on, Cowl is doubly protected, indicating that Kumori knows this. Suggesting if her identity is revealed she can definitely reveal Cowl’s
If it is Sarissa, she is now subject to summer Law and now can’t lie to Harry. She has avoided interaction with Harry at Pewce Talks and Battle Ground but likely can’t during Next Book.
I agree that "use names" and "nicknames" and such-like are not metaphysically potent.
Except maybe they sometimes/somehow can be.
As noted in the other thread, Uriel was actually alarmed by Harry familiarizing his name to "Uri".
Maybe it's a Starborn thing?
Maybe by naming him Cowl, Harry has actually Named the nameless son...
Which, in itself, would be enough for Cowl to hate & fear him.
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I would need to check but I do not believe Harry has nicknamed him in The Law.
We may have that to look forward to.
What may occur is a successful sommuning by Harry using The Nameless Son, Talvi Inverno and Cowl plus some nickname fixing a single identity upon him which makes him vulnerable. What nicknames has Harry given Cowl?
Got it Harry, calls him Dark Master of the Evil Bathrobes in their very first meeting in Dead Beat when Cowl says to Harry you can call me Cowl. If Harry used all four names in a successful summoning he stands a chance of pinning the last as A True Name. of course this would be in front of everybody important.
Although Mouse does know that Ash referred to Cowl as The Master of the Future. I prefer Dark Master of the Evil Bathrobes.
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... Although Mouse does know that Ash referred to Cowl as The Master of the Future. I prefer Dark Master of the Evil Bathrobes.
Harry is quick to point out that wizards know things. He says it's what they do.
My vote would be Evil Bathrobe of the Future.
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Harry is quick to point out that wizards know things. He says it's what they do.
My vote would be Evil Bathrobe of the Future.
Would it count as a Mantle?
I think Ash used his name for Cowl as Mouse uses MyFriend for Harry