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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Jinn Master on January 20, 2011, 03:31:06 PM

Title: A fool question
Post by: Jinn Master on January 20, 2011, 03:31:06 PM
If you only have sponsored magic (seelie, unseelie) and therefore is not using mortal magic, does it disrupt technology? You are a mortal practitioner using non-mortal magic.

Would the extra boost, or "guiding hand" from your sponsor help you to not blow things up? Would the fact that you have to draw your magic from somewhere other than yourself shield you somewhat?
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: Doc Chaos on January 20, 2011, 03:42:49 PM
As YS says that hexing is a problem of beings with free will, I'd rule that yes, it happens to spellcasters with only sponsored magic, too.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: Jinn Master on January 20, 2011, 04:03:25 PM
When casting, sure, but what about when say, walking through an electronics store? You have no latent magic held within you, because you haven't drawn any yet.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: Buscadera on January 20, 2011, 04:07:03 PM
I thought general consensus was that Sponsored Magic doesn't disrupt technology even when casting because the magic itself doesn't come from free will. The magic is generated from a being who is acting in accordance with its own nature, whereas mortal magic is bending the laws of nature slightly to accommodate for that free will. Sponsored practitioners are just applying their will to an existing force of nature.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: devonapple on January 20, 2011, 04:28:35 PM
For mortal spellcasters who learned Evocation/Thaumaturgy/Rituals/Channeling before they got Sponsored Magic, I'd say that they still can Hex things for free, and they still suffer from the Murphyonic Field Effect.

For mortal spellcasters who only ever got Sponsored Magic, I'd say that they can't Hex things for free (they must cast it as a spell, if that's even in their Sponsor's portfolio) and they do not suffer from the Murphyonic Field Effect.

For nonmortal spellcasters, I'd say that they can't Hex things for free (they must cast it as a spell) and they do not suffer from the Murphyonic Field Effect.

I think we may want to imagine Intentional Hexing and Murphyonic Field as components of a
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: wyvern on January 20, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
The general consensus, after much debate (not sure how well the search function works, but this is at least the third or fourth one of these threads I've seen), is that people don't agree on this.

For my game, I hold that purely sponsored magic doesn't disrupt technology at all.  Other people hold that - in the hands of a mortal - it's just as disruptive as equivalent refresh of wizardry.  I strongly suggest that this is something you should discuss with your gaming group and make your own ruling on, based on what your group feels is appropriate for your game.

And then you get oddities, like the occasional fully supernatural creature that has a murphyonic field.  For example,
(click to show/hide)
from, er, whichever short story that was.  So, uh, yeah.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: devonapple on January 20, 2011, 04:36:40 PM
Quote from: wyvern on January 20, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
And then you get oddities, like the occasional fully supernatural creature that has a murphyonic field.

I can accept that as a separate power for a supernatural monster, especially the example one - probably not a zero-Refresh power since it's probably not easy to Compel it against the monster.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: Drachasor on January 20, 2011, 10:09:03 PM
I think it depends on the type of sponsored magic.  I can see a good argument for Seelie/Unseelie sponsored magic not disrupting technology (accidentally at least) IF it is external.  I can also see someone making a character that has that "sponsored" magic, but it is an internal aspect of themselves.  If they are a Changeling whose mother was Lea, for instance, then they could well have innate magical abilities, but those abilities are inherently connected to the winter aspect of their nature.  Mechanically, this would work a LOT like the sponsored magic the Winter Knight might possess, but there could easily be some subtle differences.  Technically, I suppose the rules don't have anything saying you can do this, but since that's a pure flavor aspect, I don't see how it matters.

On the other hand, unless I missed something you can have backlash and the like from any sort of sponsored magic.  That means it isn't always well controlled.  It is also governed by YOUR skills, indicating that it is your will controlling a good bit of it, however you got access.  Seems to me that implies inadvertent hexing.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: arete on January 20, 2011, 11:47:04 PM
I have not been compelling sponcered magic to disrupt tech.  I do not consider it part of the sponcership package because of the limits of the magic.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: Smith on January 21, 2011, 03:10:44 AM
This actually brings to mind another "What If" I've been considering...

What if a wizard were to erect magic circles around certain bits of technology... say for example, the water heater in their house? It's been used in canon:
(click to show/hide)

So, say random wizard has a television set up in his home and has someone put a magic circle around it before he begins setting up his wards and work-space, would he be able to regularly use said TV (even though he'd probably have to buy a new remote control about once a month)?

Just a thought.  ^_^
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: Drachasor on January 21, 2011, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: arete on January 20, 2011, 11:47:04 PM
I have not been compelling sponcered magic to disrupt tech.  I do not consider it part of the sponcership package because of the limits of the magic.

All magic has limits.  If you grab Evocation and only take spirit, fire, and water, then disrupting technology doesn't really make a lot of sense based on the magic you have.  It does make sense if you accept the "lack of 100% focus/free will" argument for the disruption of technology, then there's really no reason why sponsored magic wouldn't disrupt tech.  It isn't like having fire breath, transformation, super strength, where your supernatural power is precisely defined.  Sponsored magic can still have backlash; it can still be improperly controlled BY YOU.  To me that suggests it can disrupt technology accidentally just like normal magic unless you were denied access to the magic for some reason.
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: toturi on January 21, 2011, 04:18:42 AM
I do not have the book with me:
(click to show/hide)

I think that the group has to decide for themselves certain issues:

1) What is mortal magic? (Does Sponsored Magic count when used by a mortal?)

2) What is a mortal? (How does free will count/does not count for "mortality"?)

3) Does other manifestations of supernatural powers by mortals count as mortal magic?
Title: Re: A fool question
Post by: sinker on January 21, 2011, 04:31:37 AM
Quote from: toturi on January 21, 2011, 04:18:42 AM
I do not have the book with me:
(click to show/hide)

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be a complex example of the common ritual trapping of lore, however both of the two characters I just looked up have at least ritual if not more.