ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 04:23:57 AM
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Who is fighting for who in Battle Ground?
Team Chicago vs Team Soggy Bottom
Team Chicago
Harry Dresden
Two Knights of the Cross/Sword (and maybe Michael? Can't see him sitting things out)
Marcone's organization
500+ Einherjaren mercenaries
Svartalf warriors and gear
White Court Raith family members and local resources
Paranet resources
Summer Fae (primarily communications)
Winter Fae (maybe the troops Molly mentioned, if Mab doesn't override her)
Local Ways locked down (Ferro/Vadderung)
Four Senior Wizards (one of which is injured already)
Four Wardens (one of which isn't much of a combatant)
Compliment of White Council Wardens (en route)
River Shoulders and his people
Alphas
Likely/Possible to join Team Chicago
Erlking and some goblins
Wild Hunt
Special Investigations/Police
Ivy
National Guard/FBI/NSA/CIA/MI6/DHS/National Archives
Goodman Grey
Team Soggy Bottom
Ethniu
Fomor royals and troops
Turtlenecks
Likely/Possible to Join Team Soggy Bottom
LaChaise Clan ghouls
Black Council
Outsider troops
White Court traitors? (Skavis/Malvora rebels)
Black Court
Mavra
Kincaid
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Didn't they say more Wardens were on the way?
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Didn't they say more Wardens were on the way?
I'm not sure what a compliment of Wardens would be exactly but I'll add it, and River Shoulders' group too.
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Where is the Merlin? Where is Ancient Mae?
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Where is the Merlin? Where is Ancient Mae?
If you contact the nice lady at the reception desk she will tell you to come back during official visiting hours, they are sleeping.
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Who is fighting for who in Battle Ground?
Team Chicago vs Team Soggy Bottom
Team Chicago
Harry Dresden
Two Knights of the Cross/Sword (and maybe Michael? Can't see him sitting things out)
Marcone's organization
500+ Einherjaren mercenaries
Svartalf warriors and gear
White Court Raith family members and local resources
Paranet resources
Summer Fae (primarily communications)
Winter Fae (maybe the troops Molly mentioned, if Mab doesn't override her)
Local Ways locked down (Ferro/Vadderung)
Four Senior Wizards (one of which is injured already)
Four Wardens (one of which isn't much of a combatant)
Compliment of White Council Wardens (en route)
River Shoulders and his people
Likely/Possible to join Team Chicago
Erlking and some goblins
Wild Hunt
Special Investigations/Police
Team Soggy Bottom
Ethniu
Fomor royals and troops
Turtlenecks
Likely/Possible to Join Team Soggy Bottom
LaChaise Clan ghouls
Black Council
Outsider troops
White Court traitors? (Skavis/Malvora rebels)
Black Court
We can cross out the white council reinforcements. They always arrive late. All they can do is to wash the floor, so I suspect we won't be seeing Luccio in battleground.
I got a strong feeling that Mavra will be making an appearance and it is likely that Ebenezar will be facing Mavra head to head.
Analysing the top combat power of both sides:
Ethniu from the soggy bottom team has no counterpart. No equivalent power to restraint her. So I suspect Harry , the KoTC, Murphy and co will the the one to handle her. Only the plot armor and the protagonist Halo has a chance under such a overwhelming disadvantage. May the Almighty help them.
Either Mab herself or the Leanansidhe will be on the Chicago team side which is balance by King Cord on the other team. She already prepared in the case she is needed at 2 places at the same time. This time her preparation pay off.
Farofax is out of the game. He said it himself, a dragon cannot fight without destroying the city of Chicago in the process. Vadderung could probably play, though I suspect someone in team soggy bottom will restrain him as well.
EB v.s Mavra.
LTW, Martha and Christos will probably end up facing Cowl and the black council. Well, assuming Chistos is not black council himself.
Leaving Molly, Ramirez and the rest of Marcone and Monac's forces against the fomorian army.
I doubt the mortal police will play any role, except for some character like Rudolph and his partner. What his name again?
If Ivy take the field, team Chicago may have the advantage. But Ivy is neutral so she probably won't shoot. Well unless the Denarians come out to play, in which case Ivy has a reason to take action. Ivy and the Denarians has a score to settle.
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Harry versus Mavra. I want to see how Harry uses necromancy against the black court.
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Firstly, can I state I love that the Fomor are Team Soggy Bottom.
Secondly, unless Michael gets a new leg - he's out. And he injured the other leg just in Skin Game. More likely, the incumbent knight of the cross will be hinted at or revealed. Or perhaps another Murphy (that is, a temporary).
I am not so sure the White Council won't show up. But what about the Grey? I think at least a few members are there. Perhaps more will follow (excluding those fighting elsewhere....*cough* Rashid *cough*)
I also am not so sure Summer will join. In fact, I suspect she might even be on the other team. There's a WOJ about how Titania is heavy-duty and won't really show up properly until the BAT. I think that's no accident.
Also, Mab and Lea will be at the Gates. Literally what she is called away to do right after Ethniu's appearance. But I wouldn't be surprised if they do a Tywin Lannister and Show Up at the darkest hour.
The Archive is neutral...but that doesn't mean she won't be involved. But I have no idea what capacity. She can clearly fight if she wishes. Perhaps she will mobilize some Venators or Umbrorum or both. Perhaps she will just do communication and research. Maybe nothing at all.
I wonder if the "BPRD" group will show up too. But on whose side is anyone's guess. And the National Guard will eventually turn up.
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Marcone will try to mobilise his normal foot soldiers and Murphy will try to mobilise SI/CPD. It is appealing to think of them fighting side by side.
Lara might be able to get the Governor of Illinois to send out the National Guard, to back up CPD.
Mac- there is a good chance the Titan is his wife and he might be able to get to her when others can’t.
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I with those who said Jim should have left it one book..
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Marcone will try to mobilise his normal foot soldiers and Murphy will try to mobilise SI/CPD. It is appealing to think of them fighting side by side.
Lara might be able to get the Governor of Illinois to send out the National Guard, to back up CPD.
Mac- there is a good chance the Titan is his wife and he might be able to get to her when others can’t.
Getting the mortal authorities involved in big numbers will stop any chances to keep the supernatural world under cover. So unless everything goes to hell anyway I do not expect the national guard will be involved.
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I with those who said Jim should have left it one book..
That would avoid the unfinished feeling I have now but then the publisher would probably put pressure to keep it shorter and we would have missed some material. Now he probably added some things.
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Getting the mortal authorities involved in big numbers will stop any chances to keep the supernatural world under cover. So unless everything goes to hell anyway I do not expect the national guard will be involved.
I was wondering, what if the good guys made Chicago disappear for a night? I think it was mentioned in the books they another city had gone missing for a little bit, and it had been because of the Sidhe or something. Maybe they would try that again to prevent external (satellite) evidence of the events? They don't have to worry about local evidence with all electronics wiped out.
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That would avoid the unfinished feeling I have now but then the publisher would probably put pressure to keep it shorter and we would have missed some material. Now he probably added some things.
There was very little to no "padding" of the chapters to be sure, actually I doubt Jim was planning two books in the first place. It feels unfinished, I hope in the end it doesn't come off as merely a plan to make more money by dividing it into two books. I'm not saying that is what happened, but instead of more material being added I feel too much has been left out in this book.
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There was very little to no "padding" of the chapters to be sure, actually I doubt Jim was planning two books in the first place. It feels unfinished, I hope in the end it doesn't come off as merely a plan to make more money by dividing it into two books. I'm not saying that is what happened, but instead of more material being added I feel too much has been left out in this book.
Here comes Jim's own explanation. He could not make it work in one book and keep the price below 50 dollar or something like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V9am4XyYz4
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How long was the book, compared to others in the series?
(I have no sense of it with the e-book -- the DF books all read quickly.)
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How long was the book, compared to others in the series?
(I have no sense of it with the e-book -- the DF books all read quickly.)
It's the shortest in the series other than Storm Front, if I recall the original convo about it. And the original page count for BG was even shorter, but I'm now seeing over 400 pages.
Here comes Jim's own explanation. He could not make it work in one book and keep the price below 50 dollar or something like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V9am4XyYz4
I understand the argument, that a bigger book is more expensive to make, but Wise Man's Fear was longer and was a hardcover, and it wasn't fifty dollars.
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How long was the book, compared to others in the series?
Counting only new text, or also old? I mean, I think a good 25% of the book was summarizing what had happened in the previous 15 books, short stories, or graphic novels. Telling readers what they already knew if they have read the entire series. It really made especially the first half of the book a slog. I found myself skipping whole pages on the first read through as he dropped the same summaries of people we know or things that have happened before into this book that he dropped into previous books (or at least it sure felt that way). By the BAT Jim is going to have to decide if he is writing for readers of the series or not, because if he continues to write each book so it can be read by a new reader, its going to be 75% summaries of previous books and only 25% new text, and I'm not sure I can take that.
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I understand the argument, that a bigger book is more expensive to make, but Wise Man's Fear was longer and was a hardcover, and it wasn't fifty dollars.
Different publishers though, wasn't it? I could see that possibly making a difference. Physically printing a hardback that long could be an issue without the right equipment on hand, leading to bigger costs to actually make the books.
Not that that's necessarily the case here, but I think it's reasonable to not assume all publishers have the same capabilities.
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Counting only new text, or also old? I mean, I think a good 25% of the book was summarizing what had happened in the previous 15 books, short stories, or graphic novels. Telling readers what they already knew if they have read the entire series. It really made especially the first half of the book a slog. I found myself skipping whole pages on the first read through as he dropped the same summaries of people we know or things that have happened before into this book that he dropped into previous books (or at least it sure felt that way). By the BAT Jim is going to have to decide if he is writing for readers of the series or not, because if he continues to write each book so it can be read by a new reader, its going to be 75% summaries of previous books and only 25% new text, and I'm not sure I can take that.
All long series go through this. I've also yet to read a long series that didn't need a book that served no other real purpose then lining up the finale and ensuring all relevant plotlines advanced, at the cost of the book of a standalone.
For Jordan, it was Crossroads. For Martin, A Feast For Crows/A Dance With Dragons. For Goodkind, I rather think it was Soul of the Fire.
For Butcher, apparently it's Peace Talks/Battle Ground.
Also, concur on the hardback. Butcher's people publish a trade paperback sized hardcover. Longer hardcovers are typically full size; his people may not have the equipment. Which I'm fine with- I want them to fit on the same bookshelf.
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Different publishers though, wasn't it? I could see that possibly making a difference. Physically printing a hardback that long could be an issue without the right equipment on hand, leading to bigger costs to actually make the books.
Not that that's necessarily the case here, but I think it's reasonable to not assume all publishers have the same capabilities.
That would have to be the reason. Otherwise it comes across as the publisher looking for more money. I haven't been able to find much on other books published by Ace, but RoC managed 639 pages for Aeronaut's Windlass. The full PT is now said to be 784 divided between two. My 990 page WMF hardcover by DAW is actually thinner than AW which is a lot fewer pages.
If Ace can't print books that big, then they'd appear to be the only ones in that market that can't. Or they're the little guy that's swinging over their weight class, which makes them ironically perfect for Dresden.
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Firstly, can I state I love that the Fomor are Team Soggy Bottom.
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And the National Guard will eventually turn up.
Especially since soggy bottom is a nickname for the State Department. I don't know why, but that makes it so much funnier to me.
Didn't Harry say the National Guard would show up too late?
I understand the argument, that a bigger book is more expensive to make, but Wise Man's Fear was longer and was a hardcover, and it wasn't fifty dollars.
Different publishers (and imprints within publishers) are set up differently. My understanding is that Roc would have had to subcontract the printing of a book of that size, increasing the cost. I believe it was Jim who said that. I know some members of the forum actually work in publishing and may be able to shed more light on the subject.
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Can we add Kincaid as a possible for team soggy bottom. He got fired by Ivy is employable by those with the $. He is proficient in wet work and would be helpful as a sniper.
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I added Ivy, Mavra, Kincaid, National Gauard/etc to possibles.
What about actual allies and expected opponents for the Fomor? I feel like they should have an army, but other than Turtlenecks and Frogs, I don't know what to expect? Trolls maybe? Who else do we know joined the alliance?
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I'd guess the opposites of the Signatories, largely.
So, Norse Gods with Valkyries and Einherjar- Grendelkin? Jotuns? Dishonored dead on a ship of fingernails?
Dragons?
Daoin Sidhe- Formorians
Svartalves- Light Elves
The Tylwyth being a first strike is interesting. Did Gwynn ap Nudd know something, or were his people considered dangerous?
What's the natural enemy of a vampire? A ghoul?
If the ghouls are Sumerian, I suppose some kind of Zoroastrian djinni?
I expect Gothic living weapons, given the Fomorians predilections. Also why they went for the Paranetters- the same conservation of mystical mass is probably at play.
Oh, and so much iron.
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Counting only new text, or also old? I mean, I think a good 25% of the book was summarizing what had happened in the previous 15 books, short stories, or graphic novels. Telling readers what they already knew if they have read the entire series. It really made especially the first half of the book a slog. I found myself skipping whole pages on the first read through as he dropped the same summaries of people we know or things that have happened before into this book that he dropped into previous books (or at least it sure felt that way). By the BAT Jim is going to have to decide if he is writing for readers of the series or not, because if he continues to write each book so it can be read by a new reader, its going to be 75% summaries of previous books and only 25% new text, and I'm not sure I can take that.
Not only that but it has taken him years to get this book out! If this is how it's going to be, crank out at least one every two years...
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That would avoid the unfinished feeling I have now but then the publisher would probably put pressure to keep it shorter and we would have missed some material. Now he probably added some things.
Imagine you read book 5 and stopping just after the duel between Harry and Ortega is done. That is what it feel like to me. This book is suppose to be a single volume with dual storyline running in tandom. Similar to book 5 and book 6, only we got cut off after the end of single storyline leaving the second hanging.
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Imagine you read book 5 and stopping just after the duel between Harry and Ortega is done. That is what it feel like to me. This book is suppose to be a single volume with dual storyline running in tandom. Similar to book 5 and book 6, only we got cut off after the end of single storyline leaving the second hanging.
Actually, percentage-wise, PT is 44.89% of the whole story. The Death Masks equivalent is the end of chapter 15, when Charity uses iodine on Harry's injuries after he has the tree house convo with Molly, and Shiro agrees to be his second and will go to the meeting with the Ramps at Mac's.
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Imagine you read book 5 and stopping just after the duel between Harry and Ortega is done. That is what it feel like to me. This book is suppose to be a single volume with dual storyline running in tandom. Similar to book 5 and book 6, only we got cut off after the end of single storyline leaving the second hanging.
I understand and share the feeling but maybe it is better in the long run.
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Added the Alphas to Team Chicago, since two (Andi, Marci) might ride with the Knights
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Especially since soggy bottom is a nickname for the State Department. I don't know why, but that makes it so much funnier to me.
That's Foggy Bottom. But close enough for government work.
Since they're closing the ways to Chicago everybody better shake a leg. However the military has hardened communications and could call in an airstrike. We need a Churchill speech from someone along the lines of,We shall defend "Chicago", whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the Gold Coast and in the streets, we shall fight in Burnham Harbor; we shall never surrender...
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That's Foggy Bottom. But close enough for government work.
Doh! Love close enough for government work. I always use that one.
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I think this may qualify as a WAG, but I think the Denarians show up on Chicago's side.
We are given information that Nic had suffered terribly reputation-wise. The kinds of people who would hire him were suddenly not hiring him anymore. He also seems to be anti-Nemesis because he doesn't want anything that deprives him of choice. (He and his coin have an arragement). He may have more to lose if the Titan gets her way. It would be interesting for the Knights to be conflicted by having to fight on the same side. I don't know if the Genowska will be coin-less and fighting with the Fomor, or still have the coin and fight with the Denarians (and probably still go after Harry).
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The kinds of people who would hire him were suddenly not hiring him anymore.
I think it's probably more the kinds of people he hired won't take jobs from him anymore.