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DF Spoilers / Re: Book 16 Peace Talks Rumor thread
« on: November 14, 2017, 11:19:39 AM »
Does, "the book will actually be written" count as a rumor at this point?
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DF Spoilers / Re: Dead Horses that have not beenbeaten
« on: October 18, 2017, 02:48:02 PM »Quote
And yet people here are more than willing to jump down on a fan when they ask when the next book will come out.
Or, TWG Forbid, you express displeasure about the lack of new materiel and then you are excoriated repeatedly because you've committed the mortal sin of being anything less than serenely grateful for what has been written before and reminded that you should be on your knees thanking all you hold dear that you've gotten as much as you have...
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DF Spoilers / Re: If Mab dies
« on: October 17, 2017, 10:57:37 AM »Quote
I agree with SpoonR. Mab can die in only one way. The Outsiders finally manage to bring down the Outer Gates.
Not true. We already know from the text that Mab can be killed by Titania also. And Titania is not in a good headspace. If I were Nemesis and I wanted Mab away from the Outer Gates, I'd go after Titania and have her bring down Mab along with her. This would immediately promote Molly to Winter Queen and Sarissa to Summer Queen, leaving the Lady positions wide open, and the Queen positions filled with inexperienced newbies.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Who was the real target of the bloodline curse at CI?
« on: October 17, 2017, 10:52:12 AM »Quote
One is the Blackstaff, probably one of the most deadly wizards on the planet who is personally responsible for nuking a Red Court warlord and his whole retinue, and just generally responsible for a whole hell of a lot of dead Red Court. He's also one of the leaders of the White Council.
The other is a war hero already and an inspiration to a large portion of the White Council; he is growing in power, and he's probably the direct influence and inspiration for a lot of the front-line fighters, like Ramirez.
It's not taking out "two dudes." It's like taking out the President and his cabinet, and breaking the US's nuclear weapons all in one go. Remember that of the 1000 or so wizards in the White Council, only a fraction of them are combat capable, and only a fraction of those come anywhere near Ebenezer or Harry's ability.
So the Red Court isn't just taking out "two dudes." They're taking out two extremely important weapons, both physically and morale-wise.
I think you are vastly overstating your case with these two. First, how well do non-members of the White Council's Senior Council know about the office of the Blackstaff? Heck, even Harry was somewhat sketchy on the concept, so is Eb's position and power level truly well-known? I don't think we have seen anything in the books to indicate that any of the other supernatural entities know what the deal is with the WC's Blackstaff. And even if they do know it, would the rank and file of the Red Court know enough about him to be sufficiently wowed by the bloodline curse taking him out? Second, Harry "started" the war, but he's not the most well-known and capable wizard warrior. Morgan held that role. He was the one who carved a path almost to the Red King himself. Morgan would have been the name that would have wowed folks, not Harry. Harry is well-known in the supernatural world as a thorn in the side of the White Council and something of a black sheep to them.
If the RC was acting as you are stating, they would have targeted the Merlin and/or Ancient Mai. Those are the ones who have name recognition and "wow factor" as being the most powerful and thus, the most impactful. The rest of the supernatural community would not have been impressed with the scale of the spell to kill two mortals, one of whom most consider to be just a pain in the backside thug.
And Kindler is right, this level of overkill to get these two specifically is stupid. If they were truly the targets, there are literally hundreds of ways to do it that are more effective and easier. 2 guys with flamethrowers showing up to Harry's boardinghouse could have taken care of him, and a whole bunch of claymores around Eb's truck set to go off when their electrical circuit is disrupted would take care of him after the Ramps called him and said "hi there - we just roasted your grandson alive".
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DF Spoilers / Re: Who was the real target of the bloodline curse at CI?
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:27:45 AM »
Breaching the Edinburgh wards would be an explanation for the power level.
BUt even that doesn't completely track for me. We've seen Eb many times leave the protection of those wards. He's not some sort of super-hermit who never comes out to the point where the "best" option for getting him is something as complex and powerful as CI. As for Eb's personal power level, I completely agree that he's a magnitude beyond Harry. But, he's still mortal. Presumably he's as vulnerable to a sniper round as Harry is. Kinkaide wasn't afraid to throw down with him, and he's a very risk-averse guy. Also, in the war with the RC, Eb wasn't the main problem for the vamps. Morgan was the one who seemed to be doing the damage. He was the one recognized by Summer for his valor on the field and he was the one who almost took down the Red King. They didn't seem to be having any Eb-centric issues other than Ortega's satellite incident that would indicate that the Red King decided that the entire focus of the Red Court should be directed at removing Eb from the field.
For me, if Eb were the target, there's better and easier ways to accomplish it. Easiest I can think of would be for an up-and-coming RC vamp (similar to what Bianaca was) who wants to make a big splash to go out and get herself a Seal Team. It would be child's play for a gorgeous RC vamp to find on off duty, and turn him. Next up is the rest of his buddies, and bang, she has her own uber-lethal hit squad. Then draw Eb into the field, probably by threatening Harry, and then let the long-range bullets do their work. Afterward, Bianca 2.0 presents Eb's bullet-ventilated head to the Red King and she's on the fast track.
Point being, in my opinion, CI was way overpowered for taking Eb off the board.
If it turns out that the reason for the overkill was to breach Edinburgh, then I'll accept that from Jim since he's at least hinted at that sort of power level being necessary to accomplish the task. I just don't think the narrative of the story has done enough at this point to show that the Red Court was that invested in Eb specifically. To me, the question remains, who were they that invested in destroying, or who wanted the RC out of the picture badly enough and who could have manipulated events sufficiently to bring about the outcome we saw?
BUt even that doesn't completely track for me. We've seen Eb many times leave the protection of those wards. He's not some sort of super-hermit who never comes out to the point where the "best" option for getting him is something as complex and powerful as CI. As for Eb's personal power level, I completely agree that he's a magnitude beyond Harry. But, he's still mortal. Presumably he's as vulnerable to a sniper round as Harry is. Kinkaide wasn't afraid to throw down with him, and he's a very risk-averse guy. Also, in the war with the RC, Eb wasn't the main problem for the vamps. Morgan was the one who seemed to be doing the damage. He was the one recognized by Summer for his valor on the field and he was the one who almost took down the Red King. They didn't seem to be having any Eb-centric issues other than Ortega's satellite incident that would indicate that the Red King decided that the entire focus of the Red Court should be directed at removing Eb from the field.
For me, if Eb were the target, there's better and easier ways to accomplish it. Easiest I can think of would be for an up-and-coming RC vamp (similar to what Bianaca was) who wants to make a big splash to go out and get herself a Seal Team. It would be child's play for a gorgeous RC vamp to find on off duty, and turn him. Next up is the rest of his buddies, and bang, she has her own uber-lethal hit squad. Then draw Eb into the field, probably by threatening Harry, and then let the long-range bullets do their work. Afterward, Bianca 2.0 presents Eb's bullet-ventilated head to the Red King and she's on the fast track.
Point being, in my opinion, CI was way overpowered for taking Eb off the board.
If it turns out that the reason for the overkill was to breach Edinburgh, then I'll accept that from Jim since he's at least hinted at that sort of power level being necessary to accomplish the task. I just don't think the narrative of the story has done enough at this point to show that the Red Court was that invested in Eb specifically. To me, the question remains, who were they that invested in destroying, or who wanted the RC out of the picture badly enough and who could have manipulated events sufficiently to bring about the outcome we saw?
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DF Spoilers / Who was the real target of the bloodline curse at CI?
« on: October 11, 2017, 06:52:09 PM »
I was talking with a friend about this and we got to thinking about the power that was wrapped up in the CI bloodline curse. There was a LOT of power in it.
Consider that we first saw this spell in Storm Front where a 2-bit hack like Victor Sells could use a regular thunderstorm to power a spell capable of ripping the hearts out of two people - 1 the target, one just in proximity. Now, the CI bloodline curse was magnitudes more powerful. If Sells' spell was a match, the CI spell was a whole compliment of a Triden Missile Submarine ICBMs. WAY more than would be necessary to fry Harry. Way more than would be necessary to fry Eb (even with the Blackstaff - which doesn;t seem to make him immune to magic - it just shields him from negative influences). So who up the line from Eb (or Maggie Sr.) was the real target? And how come that person needed so many human sacrifices to power the spell, plus days of rituals, plus the collected power of the Lords of Outer Night, plus the Red King, plus the inherant power of CI itself, etc. The end result was the instant genocide of the Red Court - a large collection of powerful, near immortals. Something was in the Red Court's crosshairs that needed that much power.
OR
Could the RC have been duped into overpowering the spell to such a ridiculous degree as a way of ensuring it was powerful enough to wipe out the Red Court itself, and Harry was maneuvered into making the decision to make Susan turn and then murder her to eliminate the Red Court using their own spell? We have seen a few beings who could engineer something like this. Mab and Uriel spring to mind immediately. We have also heard Nic say that the Red Court was a problem that would be disastrous to his long term plans.
So - who was the target? Or who loaded the gun for the Red Court and got Harry to pull the trigger on their own assisted suicide?
Consider that we first saw this spell in Storm Front where a 2-bit hack like Victor Sells could use a regular thunderstorm to power a spell capable of ripping the hearts out of two people - 1 the target, one just in proximity. Now, the CI bloodline curse was magnitudes more powerful. If Sells' spell was a match, the CI spell was a whole compliment of a Triden Missile Submarine ICBMs. WAY more than would be necessary to fry Harry. Way more than would be necessary to fry Eb (even with the Blackstaff - which doesn;t seem to make him immune to magic - it just shields him from negative influences). So who up the line from Eb (or Maggie Sr.) was the real target? And how come that person needed so many human sacrifices to power the spell, plus days of rituals, plus the collected power of the Lords of Outer Night, plus the Red King, plus the inherant power of CI itself, etc. The end result was the instant genocide of the Red Court - a large collection of powerful, near immortals. Something was in the Red Court's crosshairs that needed that much power.
OR
Could the RC have been duped into overpowering the spell to such a ridiculous degree as a way of ensuring it was powerful enough to wipe out the Red Court itself, and Harry was maneuvered into making the decision to make Susan turn and then murder her to eliminate the Red Court using their own spell? We have seen a few beings who could engineer something like this. Mab and Uriel spring to mind immediately. We have also heard Nic say that the Red Court was a problem that would be disastrous to his long term plans.
So - who was the target? Or who loaded the gun for the Red Court and got Harry to pull the trigger on their own assisted suicide?
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DF Spoilers / Re: Who if anyone will Harry save in Mirror Mirror
« on: October 11, 2017, 06:19:10 PM »Quote
I can see -Harry actually being a member of the black council, which is where +Harry will get his next major clue about them; from his other-self.
Absolutely. BUT, even with the knowledge of some of the BC identities, he can't be "truly 100% convinced" that the counterpart in our universe is BC as well. The "could" have only been BC in the Mirror universe, so Jim gets to torture Harry (and us by extension) once he returns with Harry suspecting at least some of his friends of being BC, but with no proof of it - just a whole lot of suspicion and reading between the lines for everything they do...
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DF Spoilers / Re: Mirror Mirror Knights of the Cross
« on: October 11, 2017, 03:57:28 PM »
I don't think Marcone has become a Knight of the Cross in the Mirror Universe. I think that if things played out as they did in Death Masks without Harry's involvement, Marcone would have been going up against the Denarians directly. Even with Gard there to advise and help, he doesn't stand a chance against Nic and his gang. I think Nic gets hold of Marcone, and gives him the choice: pick up Lasciel's Coin or die. Marcone is a pragmatist and a survivor, so he'd eventually say yes.
Now, Nic having access to Marcone's criminal empire is one thing that is likely to keep Nic occupied and distracted, but Marcone is no weakling and I think Jim's use of the word "interesting" comes into play here. Marcone, similar to our Harry, resists Lasciel's influence. It's not a willing partnership like with Nic and Andurel, it's very much a contest for control between those two. I'd imagine they reach a sort of stalemate where Marcone can hold her off mostly, but she starts playing a long, subtle, waiting game for eventual control. When our Harry shows up, it all goes out the window when Marcone sees proof positive that the Fallen can be rejected and cast out (I doubt he ever talks with Sanya to learn how he got rid of Magog, and I doubt the Denarians would advertise it), while on Lasciel's side, she flips out when she sees proof positive that a mere mortal can defeat her, as Harry did in our universe. A moment like that would be a perfect time for the two of them to finally throw down. Having Harry tell the story of how Sanya divested himself of Magog and became a Knight as a result could give Marcone the necessary strength to follow in Sanya's footsteps and cast Lasciel aside and pick up one of the Swords.
Now, Nic having access to Marcone's criminal empire is one thing that is likely to keep Nic occupied and distracted, but Marcone is no weakling and I think Jim's use of the word "interesting" comes into play here. Marcone, similar to our Harry, resists Lasciel's influence. It's not a willing partnership like with Nic and Andurel, it's very much a contest for control between those two. I'd imagine they reach a sort of stalemate where Marcone can hold her off mostly, but she starts playing a long, subtle, waiting game for eventual control. When our Harry shows up, it all goes out the window when Marcone sees proof positive that the Fallen can be rejected and cast out (I doubt he ever talks with Sanya to learn how he got rid of Magog, and I doubt the Denarians would advertise it), while on Lasciel's side, she flips out when she sees proof positive that a mere mortal can defeat her, as Harry did in our universe. A moment like that would be a perfect time for the two of them to finally throw down. Having Harry tell the story of how Sanya divested himself of Magog and became a Knight as a result could give Marcone the necessary strength to follow in Sanya's footsteps and cast Lasciel aside and pick up one of the Swords.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Who if anyone will Harry save in Mirror Mirror
« on: October 11, 2017, 03:44:26 PM »Quote
I'm kind of expecting -Harry to have taken up the coin himself, unless things had already diverged so far by DM that Nicodemus never offered it to him.
Its certainly possible, but I'm guessing that if Mirror Harry is resorting to body-snatching as a way of keeping the White Council off his trail, he probably doesn't have the Coin. The Denarians never seem to be desperately looking for ways to evade pursuit. Quite the contrary, they usually seem to be pretty well off and reasonably secure in their place in the world except when the Knights of the Cross show up. Also, if Mirror Harry had Lasciel's Coin, he would be a part of the Denarians as a whole, which would make him another signatory of the Accords, and as such, insulated from any sort of punitive measures the White Council would want to dish out.
I like the Asher angle since she would represent some sort of kindred soul to Mirror Harry. On the run from the White Council. A powerful wizard who feels railroaded by the White Council's draconian rules that they feel are out of line with how Harry and Hannah feel their situations should be viewed, and so on. I can also easily see our Harry meeting up with Mirror Hannah and, knowing full well how she turned out when she took up Lasciel's Coin in our universe, he tries to help her to keep her from ending up the same way. I could also easily see Jim having our Harry bring her back to our universe. The White Council here think's she's dead, and doing so would put her beyond the reach of the Mirror White Council. Having our Harry "save" Mirror Hannah would also give Jim an easy way to have Harry retcon something from our universe without throwing things completely out of whack.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Who if anyone will Harry save in Mirror Mirror
« on: October 11, 2017, 10:25:54 AM »
Hannah Asher. They are both on the run and wanted by the Wardens. Harry will take the opportunity to save her from getting stuck as Lasciel's Host.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Brief Cases
« on: August 25, 2017, 10:41:24 AM »
So does this push Peace Talks to Christmas 2018? or into 2019?
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DF Spoilers / Re: PETA Protest
« on: August 15, 2017, 10:50:11 AM »Quote
Seriously though, I'll take Brief Cases at this point if only to have something new to read. I'm still holding out hope that Peace Talks will be spring of next year.
Don't hold your breath
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DF Spoilers / Re: A really wild guess on Ferovax gift in GP
« on: August 03, 2017, 12:17:48 PM »
a manuscript of George R. R. Martin's "The Winds of Winter"?
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DF Spoilers / Re: A clue during Uriel's transubstation - Skin Games Spoilers!
« on: August 01, 2017, 11:04:04 AM »
I figured it was part of the usual "I have no power - I only channel what God gives me" line
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DF Spoilers / Re: Denarians and White Council
« on: July 31, 2017, 06:59:07 PM »
What have we seen in the books that would have stirred the White Council to action toward the Knight of the Blackened Denarius? The Denarians generally seem to plan and execute their own individual agendas, with some occasionally grouping together (Like Nic, Deirdre, Tessa, etc). The one time we saw them go after humanity in any sort of direct way (Nic's Shroud plague), a WC wizard stopped them before it could get started. No need for official WC intervention there. When the Denarians went after The Archive, a WC Warden took action to recover the Accords Signatory (Ivy). Again, no direct WC action required.
The WC does not get all worked up over matters of fair play, free will, championing the little guy, etc. Their laws are just there to be enforced upon themselves and any plain-vanilla mortals who dabble in the magical arts. If the WC attempted to get involved in the Denarians using human Hosts, they'd have to go on the warpath against all Accords groups who prey on humans in any way (BC and WC for food, Denarians for Hosts, etc). If they attempt to dispute a Denarian Host's use of magic (like Thorned Namshiel), the Fallen in the Coin could rightly say "my use and knowledge of magic predates your species' existence, so you have no jurisdiction over me or my Host".
So unless the Denarians take direct action against the White Council, I really don't see these two bodies coming into direct conflict.
The WC does not get all worked up over matters of fair play, free will, championing the little guy, etc. Their laws are just there to be enforced upon themselves and any plain-vanilla mortals who dabble in the magical arts. If the WC attempted to get involved in the Denarians using human Hosts, they'd have to go on the warpath against all Accords groups who prey on humans in any way (BC and WC for food, Denarians for Hosts, etc). If they attempt to dispute a Denarian Host's use of magic (like Thorned Namshiel), the Fallen in the Coin could rightly say "my use and knowledge of magic predates your species' existence, so you have no jurisdiction over me or my Host".
So unless the Denarians take direct action against the White Council, I really don't see these two bodies coming into direct conflict.