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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on January 16, 2019, 07:17:57 PM
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Rereading Fool Moon. Chauncy states that the underworld was awaiting margaret's arrival, but the Dark Prince lost her. Also mentioned her redemption. Does this sound like she may have been holding a Coin? Redemption to me sounds much like someone giving up a Coin. Or was she destined to hell for other reasons? If she did have a Coin this does increase the chances of Malcolm being a KOTC, if even for just a day.
Chauncy also said that Harry's father's death was unnatural. This does indicate a murder to me. If so who did it? Why? Was he a victim of Nicodemus, and his killing curse? Lord Raith? Justin? Leah? The list could be a lengthy one.
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Or was she destined to hell for other reasons?
That's what I'm going with. Probably just general badness.
My money is on Justin for Malcom's murder, but that's just a WAG. I don't think he was anything other than a stage magician.
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My money is on Justin for Malcom's murder, but that's just a WAG. I don't think he was anything other than a stage magician.
Justin has my vote, too. And Malcolm doesn't have to be anything more than a stage magician for it to make sense.
Killing Malcolm frees up Harry and puts him in the system, where Justin can easily keep track of him and wait. If and when Harry shows any magical talent, Justin can swoop in and "rescue" him -- Harry's years of loneliness and hurt in the system, where he's been craving familial love and a father figure, would make him ripe for Justin to manipulate.
We see that in Ghost Story -- the couple times that Justin actually acts like a father toward Harry mean the world to him.
I would give it good odds that Elaine's parents died in similarly mysterious circumstances.
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Could Margaret have been Black Council?
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Could Margaret have been Black Council?
Before she met Malcolm she may have at the very least toyed with the idea. After all, in her mind what did she have to lose? The Wardens were after her, most likely she would have lost her head. She was pissed in general at the "system," she was living with the ruler of the White Court, had a kid by him, hung out with a lot of other unsavory characters.. She may have even been one of the charter members of the Black Council for that matter..
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you don't need a coin to be headed south and anyone can be redeemed.
Chauncy and his Dark Prince probably saw her power and mindset and thought they had it in the bag. It just took a "good man" like Malcolm to turn her around. Could be a nice story some day. I could see someone want to strike at Malcolm for ruining their plans for Margaret. But I don't think he was more or less than a stage magician.
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Before she met Malcolm she may have at the very least toyed with the idea. After all, in her mind what did she have to lose? The Wardens were after her, most likely she would have lost her head. She was pissed in general at the "system," she was living with the ruler of the White Court, had a kid by him, hung out with a lot of other unsavory characters.. She may have even been one of the charter members of the Black Council for that matter..
There are quotes that support it.They had some scheme they wanted my support on. The vampires thought I was just Maggie’s mentor, then.”
This was what Maggie did, scheme. So it isn't out of the question. I don't know. But the books through Skin Game have pounded on two themes, Lea's debt to Margaret and the Black Council.
As an interesting side issue, I think Peace Talks may be foreshadowed in Changes. :)A thousand years of jungle hadn’t managed to bring the place down, but half an hour of slugfest between practitioners who know what they’re doing can leave city blocks in ruins. It was later attributed to an extremely powerful localized earthquake.
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the couple times that Justin actually acts like a father toward Harry mean the world to him.
With the way Jim writes, I think that sentence makes it more likely that it was Justin.
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you don't need a coin to be headed south and anyone can be redeemed.
That's true but Chauncy said "The Dark Prince lost her".... It seems to me that it was more than her just being a bad person, the dark side was actively working with her. This book was before we ever heard of the Coins, and my opinion is Jim dropped it here knowing that it would be likely forgotten when we were introduced to them, but then recognized in future books.
That all being said, Chauncy wanted Harry to join the dark side. I wonder if Harry had agreed he'd have been offered a Coin, or would he work with them from a different angle?
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That all being said, Chauncy wanted Harry to join the dark side. I wonder if Harry had agreed he'd have been offered a Coin, or would he work with them from a different angle?
That would be dependent on who controls access to the coins. So far on screen we haven't seen anyone outside of Nic giving coins away, we don't have much indication that Chauncey and his ilk would have any influence on who gets them. As Dierdre said, maybe he is trying to save the world.
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That would be dependent on who controls access to the coins. So far on screen we haven't seen anyone outside of Nic giving coins away, we don't have much indication that Chauncey and his ilk would have any influence on who gets them. As Dierdre said, maybe he is trying to save the world.
Nic works for lucy or as Chauncy put it, The Dark Prince (unless that's someone else).... If Harry joined the dark side I'm guessing it would come down to the what lucy wanted or if he even cared. Me thinks he'd care.
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It is possible that Margaret LeFay was a previous holder of Lasciel's coin.
It would explain why she thought she could get away with antagonizing so many powerful entities. It would explain her ability with many different types of magic. Lasciel could have tutored her on types of magic most wizards knew nothing about. It would put her going to the dark side, perhaps being a founder of the Black Council, into an understandable framework.
There are some problems with this idea though.
First, Margaret and Lasciel should have been able to resist Lord Raith. He would not have been able to even partially enthrall her if Lasciel was helping her.
But the big problem is that neither Nicodemus nor Lasciel ever mentioned to Harry that Margaret was a holder of Lasciel's coin. Why would they not tell Harry that? It might have been enough to get him to try it.
APG
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the idea that there is a coin that would have that kind of connection with his mother is something nic would have dangled in front of harry from the get go
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Nic works for lucy.
The 30 Fallen in the coins were the most troublesome Fallen for Lucifer to deal with. They probably don't follow directions well.
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The 30 Fallen in the coins were the most troublesome Fallen for Lucifer to deal with. They probably don't follow directions well.
They were the least trusted. There is a difference. An incredibly deceitful person might follow your orders to a tee but you know that eventually when they get the chance they will betray you.
Another reason to wonder if she had a Coin is that Jim said that at her age (around 100) having a baby would have required "help".. Those with Coin's don't appear to age.
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I'd say the Denarians don't work for Lucifer, but when their interests align they will work with him.
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They were the least trusted. There is a difference. An incredibly deceitful person might follow your orders to a tee but you know that eventually when they get the chance they will betray you.
Another reason to wonder if she had a Coin is that Jim said that at her age (around 100) having a baby would have required "help".. Those with Coin's don't appear to age.
There is obviously a working relationship between the Denarians and [Church Lady voice] Satan. I'm just saying that "Nic works for lucy" (emphasis mine) is a little more than we know. Especially because of that WoJ about how Nic is more dangerous than Lucifer because Lucifer is at least on team existence.
I'm not even going there on the reproductive life cycle of wizards.
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Nicodemus told Harry that he respected Margaret. If she had held one of the coins why didn't Nic say, "I respected your mother and worked with her from time to time, or "I respected your mother, we had mutual acquaintances."?
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I don't think she did have a coin or was even aligned with them in general, but wherein everything Nic says is things Jim wants him to say, he may simply have wanted to keep that connection a secret.
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I'm not even going there on the reproductive life cycle of wizards.
I admire your restraint. ;D
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It didn't need any restraint. :-X
Edit: I seem to have left out the word need, making my statement nonsensical.
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Nicodemus told Harry that he respected Margaret. If she had held one of the coins why didn't Nic say, "I respected your mother and worked with her from time to time, or "I respected your mother, we had mutual acquaintances."?
Nic says what he thinks is most effective, truth has little to do with what he says. At that moment he wanted to convert Harry so making him curious would have made more sense than making him angry.