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Messages - Phariah

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76
DF Reference Collection / Re: Who recruited and trained Victor Sells?
« on: April 24, 2012, 04:32:03 PM »
the RCV wasn't exactly the stealthiest vamps around. the WCV however are all about not being noticed. this makes me believe that Sells more than likely was a WCV/ BC asset than RCV.

77
DF Reference Collection / Re: Who recruited and trained Victor Sells?
« on: April 24, 2012, 03:59:08 PM »
mortals can only summon Outsiders. WCV can do the same as RCV, have mortal wizards summon them for their use.

78
DF Reference Collection / Re: Who recruited and trained Victor Sells?
« on: April 22, 2012, 12:01:32 PM »
BC trained him. i mean that talking in his room is probably a similar communication Vitto used in undertown. wether it was Raith or someone else is unknown.

this sounds like a RCV and WCV operation. Reds were making a move that Bianca had no idea about. also the demon summoning and using emotions in rituals sounds similar to Raith it can be gained from somewhere else. but for the overall theory it can be Raith also. Reds want to move in on Marcone, this also fits in on the BCouncil's goals. this is done w/out Bianca's knowledge.

Sells using a RCV ritual scaled down or given the heart curse to test it out. 3-eye could have come from the RCV or BC. could be why later on we see Raith not really supporting the RCV. he might have been pissed losing a sorcerer that the RCV was supposed to be protecting. he than sends Thomas to back Ortega in the duel in DM. sorta slap in ortega's face.

also how Morgan was sent fo quickly to Chicago and is on Dresden's ass directly. could be Peabody's influence to help Sells. Morgan w/ ink tuned emotions directed at Dresden, perfect distraction.

when Lara took over the WCV it took them from the BC coalition. this is what led to WN. Cowl wanted to get the WCV back.

79
so far this theory seems to be possible just from what we have seen. i still am not sure as to the timing. also if Fitz was out in the city as a child wouldn't Tera ask Harry to watch for him?

here is another thought for the Fitz is Tera's son idea. he has pack mentality. he went back to save his pack.

80
And totally by accident, Harry wore conquistador outfit, while Susan was dressed up as a human sacrifice. A not-so-subtle hint from the Sidhe?

Heh, it's even in the WoJ compilation:
the sacrifice on the table had no robe nor did Lil Maggie. the outfit Susan wore was more like the vamp priestess robes. not a human sacrifice. the only play at anything i see would be Arianna and Ortega. she was a Mayan priestess and he was a conquistador. Lea knew of this and even talked about it in the limo. the robes like the one at the RC warehouse. they were props for the ceremony worn by the people committing the sacrifice.

81
well Harry says it in one book that Bob keeps track of the ever changing metaphysics of magic for him. no specific timeline though.

82
DF Reference Collection / Re: The voices in my head (Series spoilers)
« on: July 06, 2011, 06:27:23 PM »
Me, I'm thinking along the lines of trying to see how crouded Harry's head is, either with presences, or the footprints of presences.  One of the points of this is that if he is now dead, maybe if some of these presences were actually persistent, they can manifest to him in the spirit realm.
oooohhh me likey. if its was a spiritual type of connection now that he is on the other side it might be easier to connect with him. very interesting idea. that spectral woman if it is sometype of ghost or spirit link is a strong frontrunner than imho.

83
DF Reference Collection / Re: The voices in my head (Series spoilers)
« on: July 05, 2011, 05:57:31 PM »
what about the woman from his dreams in DM. he didn't recognize her bur she was familiar. almost the same description of the woman's touch from SF.

another though it was only one was. in SK the Mother's read his thoughts.

Harry also used his connection to Susan to project thoughts to her in Changes.

84

Why do we all assume the spell was the Red Court's, and that it was a prized possession they've used before?  The impression I got was that the Red Court was given that spell, just like Victor Sells was, and that they were HORRIBLY BAD AT IT.  They had to sacrifice how many people, to get enough juice to kill three wizards, and maybe a few people on Susan's side of the tree?  Say Susan's parents and grandparents were both alive, and she had two siblings- that's twelve people; we'll say fifteen to be safe.  Victor managed to kill two completely unrelated people at the same time without any sacrifices.  I'm not saying that there's no problem to go from killing two unrelated people with one spell to killing fifteen related people, but to be fair Victor Sells wasn't really a wizard, but a gifted person that had learned a few tricks.  The Red Court had multiple sorcerers working on the spell, had props to go along with and beef it up, and while they might have needed some sacrifices even still... I am not too impressed that the Red Court needed that much to pull it off (they were killing for hours while Dresden was on the way there).  Granted, Victor had a storm to beef his spell, but they had a ley line running right underneath.

I don't think it was there spell; I think somebody as yet still unrevealed was manipulating Victor and the Red Court.
Victor used a ceremony and a storm to power a spell that killed someone across town. RC was preparing a spell that would take out someone on the otherside of the world, possibly behind wards or even in the NN. so yes the spell needed more power. most likely an increase for whatever factors added on. we don't know the exact mathmatics involved but i would say it was geared to go through anything to kill its target. so i don't think we can say they were horribly bad at it.

85
I was arguing more about the possibility that the spell didn't belong to the Red Court originally- that somebody may have given it to them to take down Harry/Eb.

Somebody didn't like somebody enough to give Victor the spell, though.  My guess is it was probably Marcone, especially given how Fool Moon turned out.  That may have been an example of good intentions slowly being corrupted- they started out trying to destroy a criminal, and then got so focused on destroying the people that stood in their way?  More likely they were trying to remove the competition, and worked through intermediaries in case somebody got suspicious. 
well don't forget that Victor needed something from the target... hair, nail clippings, blood, ect...  the only reason those people were killed was because Monica's sister was threatening to go to the cops and Marcone. no idea if she told Tommy Tom so he had to got too. Linda was seen talking to Dresden and was planning on blackmailing them. mean while the rat Gimpy still hadn't gotten anything for you to use the spell on Victor with, no hair or nail clippings. until Dresden became a real pain by defeating your demon so you had Gimpy get some of Dresden's hair anyway possible. but yeah having the Beckitts in your group as a super charger to focus their hatred for Marcone seems like it was Marcone as your main target from the start.

86
Also, the bloodline curse in Changes and the heart exploder in SF killed in similar ways, but the ritual in SF was NOT a bloodline curse, it used a thaumaturgic link powered by ritual sex.  I don't think it needs to be the same person teaching sells and the Red Court.  If two coaches who have never met each other both grew up knowing the rules of football and watching the same games, it is not unlikely they will both draw up similar plays.  So I don't know if the connection is necessarily there, other than Arianna getting nudged into action that involved Harry.

Where do we have evidence that 3eye is a "far advanced" potion?  He did not have the "Bloodline Curse", though the curse he used did have a similar effect, it did not target a bloodline.  He had a demon summoned, it is possible that the bound demon was compelled to tell him something about curses, or even potion making.  Or it could have been another demon that he summoned.  All of this is speculation, of course.
Changes page 161-162 for whole convo. i am just using the important piece.
Harry,"How does it work?"
Vadderung,"it tears out the heart. rips it to bits on the way out, too. sound familiar?"
Harry," hell's bells." it had been years since i had even thought about Victor Sells or his victims.
Vaderung, "it's all connected, Dresden. the whole game. and you're now beginning to learn who the players are. the sorcerer who used the spell in Chicago before didn't have strength enough to make it spread past the initial target. the RC does.no one has used Power on that scale in more than a millennium."


87
Sells' limited knowledge points to him NOT having a teacher, not not having a teacher.

I'd bet that he was self taught, using an extensive library of books, and *someone/thing* made sure those books were the real deal

Why make third eye?  Because he can.
Why go to war with Marcone?  Because Marcones in the way of his three eye trade

so how did he come up with the formula for 3eye? that is a far advanced potion. how did he get the bloodline curse? how did he get an extensive library as they would be expensive? and he was never said to have one just a few books. no he isn't self taught someone taught him specific things and set him on his path. someone had wanted Sells to do specific things, he was a tool. it is obvious.

 so no if i wanted to make a weapon that could cause problems i could capitalize on, Sells would be it. i taught him enough to make 3eye to cause havok and a spell that would wipe out his enemies without a trace. yet still be inept enough that he would be no danger to me, and i could take care of easily later on if he became a problem. so no his limited knowledge ( which is advanced knowledge to be sure ) does not point to being self taught. it points to being taught enough to be usefull.

88
well i think you would be giving Victor too much credit. he has no idea that another wizard can take control of his demon he uses its name in front of Harry. he had no idea Harrry could mentally smack his shadow self. he only knows specific things that his teacher taught him and he worked on. he is a one trick pony.

Harry doesn't know most of the formula for the potions, Bob is his recipe book. those recipes are elementry compared to 3eye. Victor isn't a magic genius, 3 eye is like an advanced biochemistry, while Victor would be ranked elementry school chemistry. so no i think he was given the recipe and it took awhile for him to gain enough knowledge of his power to bring that potion to its fruition.

i think 3eye was meant to destabilize Chicago. if anyone knows how devestating the crack epidemic was, and 3 eye being more addictive, wow.

89
yes that is true. Lara explains when Harry confronts her about Madeline. Lara says she was a fool for only removing herself by 1 factor/ blind removed from the lawyer.

90
Jenny Sells read the Arcane and knew about Harry. not farfetched to see Monica knowing her husband is in to the mystical reading through the Arcane and seeing articles about Harry also. she than builds enough courage to seek help from him.

Victor used more than lust he used anger also. he found out emotions could aid in the charging of spells. and it was hatred that was a main factor behind the RC curse as Harry pointed out. and the Beckitts had plenty of hatred to go around.

i don't see how a WCV got one of RCV's greatest weapons. the bloodline curse. Arriana wouldn't do that unless it was because she was sharing w/ a BCouncil ally.

Victor wasn't aimed at Harry he was aimed at Marcone. Marcone was stopping the RC from expanding into the Chicago underworld. and they were in a drug war.

when Harry starts to go after Victor the WCouncil sends in Morgan. not to find a warlock but specifically was sent after Harry. and we all know Peabody was messing w/ the Council for a long time.

as of SF Papa Raith had no idea about Harry being Mag LeFae's son. neither did Lara. and Thomas can barely use a tracking spell. also Papa Raith cannot feed to replenish his own energies. so why would he waste energy showing Victor how to use magic?  my bet on who taught Victor is Cowl.

Harry would never even have been brought in if Monica's sister didn't threaten to go to the police and Marcone, thus forcing Victor's hand. so he killed her and Tommy Tom.


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