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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Lawgiver on April 29, 2015, 09:12:35 PM
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There's no real, solid Template for them, like there are for Changelings or Emissaries of Power. They're sort of between those two. But not really... *sigh*.
I'm getting ready to start a new set of scenes and my group is about to spend time in character creation... three of them have already expressed solid (read they won't be talked out of) interest in running a Scion of some sort. One wants a very Kincaid-like supernatural crossbreed with high skills in Guns, Weapons and even Fists. Another wants something vaguely like the White Court "Come Hither"... but not a WC Virgin or with any of the Feeding Dependency issues -- and doesn't want to get her "charms" from being Changeling (Fae blooded), so the 'inheritance' came from...elsewhere.
You get the idea.
Suggestions on how to go about creating some Musts or other Template/template-like requirements for Scions?
Tough, I know, but time is running out and I've been hitting a wall with this.
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Templates are just guidelines. Take what powers make sense for the character's heritage. It shouldn't be stressful or a big deal. Don't bother writing a new Template just for them...just make the player outline their heritage, come up with what kind of creature is the parent and go from there. Your discussion with your player takes the place of a Template.
If you're trying to figure out what specific creatures those mentioned PCs' parents should be, just start trolling through different cultural mythologies on wikipedia. That's my go-to.
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I've used the templates all of once in the many, many campaigns I've been in for DFRPG. The only ones that anyone really stresses about are the FP/Sorcerer/Wizard templates, because they give restrictions that otherwise would not apply, whereas the other templates are more along the lines of classes with in-built powers than anything else.
As for Scions, I just run them as Changelings-With-Another-Name.
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I don't know what the difference between a Scion and a changeling is. Template-wise, they're exactly the same. In fact they are the same as an Emissary.
Once they've chosen their heritage, hammer out what kinds of powers make the most sense and let them build a character with those guide-lines in mind.
For the 'come hither' character, a Siren makes perfect sense.
-incite emotion, lust
-aquatic
-maybe swift transistion
etc... etc...
I certainly don't see toughness or strength powers in that kind of build - maybe recovery.
There are lots of mythological creatures that lure mortals and not all of them are fairies.
Emissaries work exactly the same way, IMO. You're the emissary of a Dragon? O.k: toughness, strength, speed, fire immunity etc, etc, etc, There's more justification for Items of Power for an Emissary than a Scion, I think.
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Keep in mind: Changelings are Scions. They're really only given a special name due to being the most common kind of scion.
I like the approach suggested for Changelings: make a list of powers possible to inherit from the parent. Be specific about what the parent is, even if it might not come up much in game. Remember to keep the available powers coherent. There's also probably a ton of baggage in the form of beings interested in the character.
There are also indications that scions face a serious pressure from the heritage itself to lose their free will unless some form of measures are taken, possibly involving a powerful being.
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Doesn't the book explicitly state that the Changeling template is also for *any* "Half mortal half never-never critter" character?
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Jim Butcher stated in an interview that was posted here on the forums somewhere that all scions will make a choice at some point, and it's not just a conscious decision. It's also about there actions. In addition to a list of powers they can take, you might come up with a scenario or situations (likely linked to their aspects) that results in a transition closer to making the Choice. Like how breaking a law of magic fundamentally changes a spellcaster. Butcher stated that Kincaid made his Choice a long time ago.
For example, a scion of a siren comes closer to becoming a monster if she drowns someone. Or closer to becoming human if she saves someone from drowning. Those are crappy examples, but I hope the point is understood. A dragon scion may deal with coveting treasures, so he embraces his draconic nature every time he puts an object's value above a life. If you link these things to aspects it creates opportunities for compels. I'd ask your player to decide if the character wants to become mortal or monster and work it into aspects.
I hope that's helpful!
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Actually, that's an interesting idea.
Whenever a Scion character does something that's particularly in line with his supernatural parent, he has to roll *something* (probably Conviction) and on a failure has to change one of his aspects to be more in line with his heritage. Each aspect can only be changed once and if you replace it with something else as part of your character development, the new aspect must have a reference to the Change. Once all seven aspects have been changed, you have effectively made your Choice and become a full supernatural creature.
For example, Bill the Dropbear Scion is in the Australian Outback, waiting for a portal to open up where the oracle spirit said it would. Dropbears are nature's pinnacle ambush predators and Bill is drawing on his father's power to cloak himself in the lone tree for miles around in order to ambush whoever passes appears. Some time later the portal opens up and what Bill suspects is a Faerie steps out. Bill takes the chance and drops squarely onto the faerie's back, using his tremendous weight to crush it to the floor.
The Faerie doesn't even get a chance to retaliate before the fight is over, the dropbear proving its place as the apex predator in the Outback. Bill's player then rolls his Discipline (not very high: Bill likes beer and hookers a bit too much for that) and fails the roll, at which point he changes his Outback Tracker aspect to Outback Ambusher to reflect how his choices are moulding him into one of the most terrifying creatures in the world.
This would also be a good point for Bill to maybe take an extra power in line with dropbear heritage, perhaps taking on Claws or a stunt relating to his precious drop-tackle skills.
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All the above has been helpful, at least in some way. Maybe I didn't couch/phrase what I was needing very well.
These three players all want to play "Scions", but their concept comes from YS80, Minor Talent:The Dresdenverse is filled with mortals who have small limited powers, whether due to long-forgotten traces of inhuman bloodlines, exposure to the supernatural, or simply the right combination of willpower and belief.
The took the underlined section to justify having their characters descended from such an old, forgotten bloodline. What I see coming is something like a mini-Camp Halfblood.
One wants to be descended from Bacchus and a mortal. Another from Tyche, Fortuna or any other Luck Goddess, the third form almost any great myth figure of great combat prowess... preferably Mars/Ares, but 'lesser' powers are acceptable.
I was hoping for some form of "fixed" formula for determining the kinds of powers they could have. I could go with the Minor Talent restrictions and allow a single 1- to 2-refresh power, but they seem to want a bit more versatility -- the Focused Practitioner level if possible. I'm just trying to avoid having them overpowered and taking control from me and ripping game balance to pieces if they get too much.
Suggestions?
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Actually, that's an interesting idea.
Whenever a Scion character does something that's particularly in line with his supernatural parent, he has to roll *something* (probably Conviction) and on a failure has to change one of his aspects to be more in line with his heritage. Each aspect can only be changed once and if you replace it with something else as part of your character development, the new aspect must have a reference to the Change. Once all seven aspects have been changed, you have effectively made your Choice and become a full supernatural creature.
For example, Bill the Dropbear Scion is in the Australian Outback, waiting for a portal to open up where the oracle spirit said it would. Dropbears are nature's pinnacle ambush predators and Bill is drawing on his father's power to cloak himself in the lone tree for miles around in order to ambush whoever passes appears. Some time later the portal opens up and what Bill suspects is a Faerie steps out. Bill takes the chance and drops squarely onto the faerie's back, using his tremendous weight to crush it to the floor.
The Faerie doesn't even get a chance to retaliate before the fight is over, the dropbear proving its place as the apex predator in the Outback. Bill's player then rolls his Discipline (not very high: Bill likes beer and hookers a bit too much for that) and fails the roll, at which point he changes his Outback Tracker aspect to Outback Ambusher to reflect how his choices are moulding him into one of the most terrifying creatures in the world.
This would also be a good point for Bill to maybe take an extra power in line with dropbear heritage, perhaps taking on Claws or a stunt relating to his precious drop-tackle skills.
Great example. I'll keep it in mind. ty
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One wants a very Kincaid-like supernatural crossbreed with high skills in Guns, Weapons and even Fists.
If you're looking for for a player character level demon scion/Hellhound a la Kincaid, here is a writeup that I think could work. Feel free to adjust it to suit a tie to Mars or Ares.
Kincaid's Spartan cousin (10 Refresh, 35 skill points)
High Concept: Supernatural Soldier
Trouble: The Job Comes First
Other Aspects: The blood of Ares runs through these veins; As Human As You Are; Technology Is The Great Equalizer; Protect The Client, Tonight we dine in Hell!!!
Skills
Superb(+5): Athletics (Hide/Skulk, +6 w/ Inhuman speed, +7 to Sprint, penalties to stealth from movement reduced by 2), Guns (no range penalty when sniping)
Great(+4): Alertness (+8 Initiative w/ Inhuman Speed), Fists (+2 dmg w/ Inhuman strength)
Good(+3): Endurance, Might (+4 to Grapple, +6 to Lift)
Fair(+2): Burglary, Intimidation (The Brush Off +4), Scholarship (+3 for Military, +4 for Tactics)
Average(+1): Conviction, Driving, Lore, Presence, Survival
Powers
Inhuman Speed [–2]
Inhuman Strength [–2]
Stunts (5)
Cat-like Grace (Athletics): Swap Athletics for Stealth to Hide/Skulk
Extensive Training (Fists): Swap Fists for Weapons when using HtH Melee weapons
Sniper (Guns): With a properly equipped and adjusted rifle, and something to brace it against or a turn to take aim, he suffers no penalties to rolls due to range.
You Don't Want Any of This (Intimidation): +2 to The Brush Off
Scholar (Military +1, Tactics +2)
Stress
Physical oooo
Mental ooo
Social ooo
Total Refresh Cost: -9
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All the above has been helpful, at least in some way. Maybe I didn't couch/phrase what I was needing very well.
These three players all want to play "Scions", but their concept comes from YS80, Minor Talent:The took the underlined section to justify having their characters descended from such an old, forgotten bloodline. What I see coming is something like a mini-Camp Halfblood.
One wants to be descended from Bacchus and a mortal. Another from Tyche, Fortuna or any other Luck Goddess, the third form almost any great myth figure of great combat prowess... preferably Mars/Ares, but 'lesser' powers are acceptable.
I was hoping for some form of "fixed" formula for determining the kinds of powers they could have. I could go with the Minor Talent restrictions and allow a single 1- to 2-refresh power, but they seem to want a bit more versatility -- the Focused Practitioner level if possible. I'm just trying to avoid having them overpowered and taking control from me and ripping game balance to pieces if they get too much.
Suggestions?
As mentioned above, it's no different than a changeling. It won't ruin game balance because they are restricted by their refresh.
They will have a "fixed" formula because they will be limited by their bloodline and you'll have to hammer that out with them ahead of time.
Here's what I'd do: War God-type
Sit down with the player and hammer out what kinds of Powers Mars might Have(or grant):
Strength Powers
Toughness Powers
Demesne
Sponsored magic: War
Then let them choose anything from that list. If you're starting at 6 refresh, then they can't go too crazy. I'd also limit any of the building block powers (like toughness and Strength) to Supernatural levels - no Mythics.
If you want them to start out as just discovering their powers, you could limit them to inhuman levels or only let them take 2 refresh worth of Supernatural Powers to start and let them buy more at milestones to show how they are growing into their power.
Tyche:
Incite Misfortune (ranged, weaponized etc...)
Any of the "Luck" powers from the custom list (they're a bit wonkey)
Not sure what others. It seems that having lots of FP's is a good idea with Tyche
Bacchus
Glamours
Incite Revelry, Lust, Joy (maybe based on Performance)
Addictive Saliva
They will be a "half-blood" camp. But I don't see anything wrong with it. Ask them if they can all be part of the same pantheon. Maybe the gods are conspiring to get power back by stirring the blood-lines up and spreading their name and renown.
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One wants to be descended from Bacchus and a mortal.
Child of Bacchus/Dionysius (10 Refresh, 35 skill points)
High Concept: Yet another one of Dionysius' bastards
Trouble: Eat/drink and be merry- for tomorrow we may die
Other Aspects: I'm a Lover-not a fighter!, you can have anything for a song,
Skills
Superb(+5): Presence, Rapport (Sex Appeal +7)
Great(+4): Deceit (Incite Lust +6), Empathy
Good(+3): Contacts, Lore, Performance
Fair(+2): Athletics, Resources, Scholarship
Average(+1): Alertness, Conviction, Endurance, Fists, Investigation
Powers
Inhuman Recovery [–2]
Inhuman Toughness [–2]
The Catch (Fire) [+3]
Incite Emotion, ranged, Potent (Lust) [-4]
Stunts
Tireless
Sex Appeal
Binge Drinker (+2 Mild Conditions to counter the effects of drugs and alcohol)
Lush Lifestyle
Stress
Physical ooo[oo] (+2 Mild vs drugs & alcohol)
Mental ooo
Social oooo (+1 Mild)
Total Refresh Cost: -9
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As Shaft and Taran has already shown, the concepts are easily workable. Being the grand- or great-grandchildren of various gods are just fine Scion material. In that case (assuming they're a couple generations removed) I'd probably not push The Choice too hard. Occasional compels to pick up more powers, pushing them toward less and less free refresh. I do however like the idea that certain acts indicate slipping further toward the choice.
I'd echo Taran's suggestion to see if they can all be descended from the same pantheon, as that makes for excelent hooks to pull them all together!
The really important things to settle beforehand is:
* What powers will be available down the line?
* Do they come with further drawbacks?
* If certain actions should push them toward the choice, what are those actions?
Basically, creating a scion is a lot about creating the parent/ancestor to figure out focus and limitations.
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I'm just trying to avoid having them overpowered and taking control from me and ripping game balance to pieces if they get too much.
Don't worry about it. This game isn't balanced around Templates. I've never cared about Templates even a little bit and it's never had any consequences for me balance-wise.
I have had overpowered characters, but using Templates wouldn't have done anything about them.
I was hoping for some form of "fixed" formula for determining the kinds of powers they could have.
Anything that's in the book (or in your approved homebrew list) and fits the concept.
Whenever a Scion character does something that's particularly in line with his supernatural parent, he has to roll *something* (probably Conviction) and on a failure has to change one of his aspects to be more in line with his heritage. Each aspect can only be changed once and if you replace it with something else as part of your character development, the new aspect must have a reference to the Change. Once all seven aspects have been changed, you have effectively made your Choice and become a full supernatural creature.
I think this is a bad idea. The Choice should be a choice, not a punishment for rolling badly. Especially since becoming a full supernatural is actually worse than death from a continuing-to-play-your-character perspective.
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Whenever a Scion character does something that's particularly in line with his supernatural parent, he has to roll *something* (probably Conviction) and on a failure has to change one of his aspects to be more in line with his heritage. Each aspect can only be changed once and if you replace it with something else as part of your character development, the new aspect must have a reference to the Change. Once all seven aspects have been changed, you have effectively made your Choice and become a full supernatural creature.
I think this is a bad idea. The Choice should be a choice, not a punishment for rolling badly. Especially since becoming a full supernatural is actually worse than death from a continuing-to-play-your-character perspective.
Fully agreed! Never roll something like that - compel!
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Wow, man. I just had a chance to look at the suggestions and they are...
FREAKING AWESOME!
I think I get where my thinking was bent (from 38 years of D&D). The examples above (from the Dropbear) onwards are... stunningly simplistic.
We're starting at Feet in the Water (6/20) and growing from there (hopefully).
"Trimming the fat" shouldn't be too much hassle and the stuff already listed could be used as future incentives to look forward to.
Absodamnlutely amazing. Ty all very much.
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Tyche:
Incite Misfortune (ranged, weaponized etc...)
While it may be a bit nitpicky, I wouldn't use Incite Emotion for this because Misfortune isn't an emotion... and because (if I'm not mistaken, don't have my books handy) when upgraded to Weaponized, it deals mental or social stress, not physical.
I feel this could be better modeled by as a form of Channeling using "Luck" as an element. If you want to modify it to less resemble mortal spellcasting, I suggest a custom power working the same way but removing the focus items and combining the roles of Conviction and Discipline into one of the two skills... I figure you shouldn't have to adjust the cost that way since adding the trapping from one to the other is basically the same as a one refresh stunt and losing the focus items should refund a refresh since that's what it costs to buy the same amount (again, no books right now) of focus item slots with Refinement for Evocation or Thaumaturgy.
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I feel this could be better modeled by as a form of Channeling using "Luck" as an element.
We have an Emissary of Tyche on RagnarokNYC with Sponsored Magic from Tyche that is built around Entropomancy channeling/ritual, plus evothaum. It works very well. "Luck" magic of any kind is entropomancy. Just as you can use it to make improbably bad things happen (frozen turkey falling onto you out of the sky), you can make improbably good things happen to people.
'Cause, remember, Tyche isn't all about "good" luck. She's about "fortune"--not the specifics of "good" vs "bad." Some people have good fortune because of her, others bad.
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If you want to modify it to less resemble mortal spellcasting, I suggest a custom power working the same way but removing the focus items and combining the roles of Conviction and Discipline into one of the two skills...
Actually using Incite physical effect from the custom board (which is essentially incite emotion but it does physical effects) works incredibly well...and does exactly what you're describing.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,39160.msg2079136.html#msg2079136
Arcane made a character with it and it's perfect.
Incite maneuvers: random lucky or unlucky events that might take place. Leave it to your imagination, but "untied shoe" might be one.
Incite Potent: damage/attacks. your ally punches the bad guy who hits the wall. An iron falls off the shelf and hits him in the head. *ouch*
He steps out into traffic and a car just happens to lose control and hit him, etc, etc, etc,
It's all the same "attack, maneuver, block". you just narrate as turns of luck.
Here's the actual character sheet
https://dfrpg-ww2.obsidianportal.com/characters/jack-crosby
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The game I am in has a few greek scions: Artemis, Ares, and Athena.
The play and rules sort of evolved over time. We used aspects and compels on aspects to reflect the tidal pull of the parents on the scions.
Artemis:
Female player/character was a virgin. Hunted "evil" in the name of Artemis. Sort of an eco-feminist thing. The GM had her struggle with the sentiment/philosophy call of her mother with the vicious man-killing reality of her sisters. So she had a difficulty in discerning what was the right course of action as given by her aspects and her people. Her character did not really get interesting until the GM fleshed out a culture that forced her to make choices with tough consequences to her choices. She had a mixture of compels, betrayals, and violent scenes. Oh...and White Court Vampires trying to get into her virgin pants. Her powers were speed, incite fear after plugging the prey with an arrow, and bow skills. As she was a new player to DFRPG she decided to play a scion that was sheltered on a Med island with other Artemis scion's and constantly played up the culture clash driven by the interpretations of proper behavior by her people. She did find out that other scion's are not the best interpreters of Artemis' will. The GM would compel the scion a lot around bad male behavior. Especially the ubermale scion of Ares.
Ares
For Ares we went with a chimeric father who had sired a few thousand bastards and was uncaring of their fates. As the scions evolve they find themselves adept at one or two aspects of war. Not all scions are created alike. They had a few commonalities: strength, speed, and toughness. Ares manifested in different forms largely dictated by the greatest bloodletting/war that happened in the region (a nod to American Gods). So Ares in South Bend took the form of a genteel union/confederate general. In Europe more like a Nazi/Ruski form. All scions of Ares had a form of cassandras tears. Visions of war/conflict that draw them to conflict like a piece of meat draws flies. All scions of Ares need to perform an act of glory/fame (via Hellenic Code) to gain the notice of Ares. Then the problems really begin as Ares agenda is complex, unknowable, and generally demonizing an in awful way. To flesh it out the scions of Ares had the goal of becoming "300" an elite force of scions who do the bidding of the gods. Until the scion attained the status of being a "hero" the scion is mortal (as in can die of old age). At a certain point scions do gain a long life. Most don't as the vast majority of scions die young via war and their addition to the most dangerous trade. In one story arc scions of ares were near like roach/xenomoprh status. Hordes of deadly things that you squish in numbers before they squish you. Scions of Ares in the game were generally disliked and seen not too dissimilar than ghouls (minus cannibalism).
The scion in the party was a master of weapons ("The Use of Arms") and manifested the aspect of butchery in war(Honey Badger Don't Care). So warfare would incite a bloodlust that would clash with humane aspects of the character ("Take the Grenade"). The character was molded on Yato of Noragami. A little stray cat godling trying to swear off calamity yet being drawn back in again and again with some seriously bad social habits. To aid in this the scion had a game mechanic flaw. Whenever he used supernatural speed he would gain a mild mental consequence of bloodlust/adrenaline high that represented the peril of addiction to his heritage as he took on an inhuman form. This flaw was readily taggable to characters/monsters that play on emotions. He got taken out by a wrath oriented WCV zapping him during bloodlust and assessing "Honey Badger Don't Care". The scion had a bit of a drinking problem vis a vis PTSD/Horror at his actions ("Children's Eyes that Hate You, Broken and Mad"- Siegfried Sassoon.) As the arc continued the scion was the son that Ares would give the most morally questionable jobs. His package was Strength, Speed, Toughness, Cassandras Tears with a sort of human form and mild mental consequence when using speed (a nod to Guts from Beserk while wearing the armor of the beserker). As the arc continued the agenda of Ares was revealed: For the White Council to go to war and to rescind the first law as the scion was with a party of wizards. The Ares arc created by the scion was not the main arc of the game. It was still a reality vs outside the fae really suck story.
Athena:
That character had an interesting use of 4 pts into supernatural senses. She had the ability to see the truth in conflicts, the ability to divine the best tactical solution causing the least harm, and a sort of call on the GM for a bit of wisdom power. The scion of Ares had a grand old time ignoring the scion of Athena's input. Sadly the scion of Athena's input would more wise, humane, and generally "good." As the party was heavily influenced by a war like mindset the party did not really trust in the scion of Athena. That and the player had her as a scion of Athena and daughter of Morgan. The word "snitch" came to mind many times.
Scions of Whatever "Wiki" can be really cool additions to a game that uses aspects, compels, and GMs willing to flesh out culture pieces beyond Dresden Files. The introduction of Hades in Skin Game sure juiced the campaign. The above posters are right in that its fun to play the Call of the parent on the scion and the struggle that it creates as the agenda of the parent is inhuman. Some of example on fortune and Dionysus I am going to steal.
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After experimenting with how this can work over the weekend, I think I'm going to bend that "Incite Luck" ability into a anti-Entropy spellcasting thing. Makes more sense for the way we play the game. And, it provides me with a slightly more useful tool for limiting frequency and strength of use through the stress track.
ty
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anti-Entropy spellcasting thing.
anti-Entropy = Entropy. Just give her Entropic magic.