Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - LordDresden2

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 34
31
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 21, 2025, 07:25:28 AM »
Quote from: Mira on January 20, 2025, 03:16:57 PM
Doesn't matter what Harry thinks, he may think he is being enslaved, but he doesn't act enslaved.  That's the whole point of Uriel's seven words, in the end it's up to Harry, and he remains himself.  Harry has a vital job as Winter Knight, just as Rashid does as Gatekeeper, it requires that they are who they are, Mab knows that.

Nevertheless, Harry isn't free.  Just for a current example, there's the compulsory marriage to Lara.  At the end of Battleground, Harry is musing about just how trapped he is.

32
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 20, 2025, 03:15:39 AM »
Quote from: g33k on January 08, 2025, 12:12:47 AM
Au contraire:  Harry getting Winterknight'ed is an incredibly good thing.

Harry's a Starborn, with notable anti-Outsider abilities.
Winter is the primary force opposing Outsiders, protecting Creation at the Outer Gates; and the Knight is "Winter's Champion."

A Starborn Winter Knight?  Huge, huge power-up for Harry Dresden in protecting Creation; huge, huge power-up for Mab's WK (compared to Slate).  win-win all 'round

No, it isn't.  It might make Harry more badass, but 'more badass' is independent of 'good'.  Taking up a Coin would make Harry more badass, too, but it wouldn't be a Good Thing.

For Harry, being enslaved by Mab is by definition bad.  The fate of Lloyd Slate alone is proof enough of that.

33
DF Spoilers / Re: Nicodemus Archleone and John Marcone - Birds of a feather?
« on: January 20, 2025, 03:12:59 AM »
The thing to remember is that John Marcone and Harry Dresden are, in some ways, almost mirror images, psychologically.

I've said before that if you take Michael Carpenter, and morally reverse him, you get Nicodemus Archleone.  If you take Harry Dresden and reverse him morally, the negative image looks a lot like Marcone.

Harry and John both have an instinctive protective reaction toward women and children.  Both have learned, for different reasons, that they have to restrain and discipline that tendency.  Both are highly intelligent, self-disciplined, and capable.   Etc.

Just as Michael is a better man than Harry, his moral reverse, Nicodemus, is a worse man than Harry's moral reverse, John.

Yeah, I completely agree that no mortal is ever really in control where a Coin is concerned.  The only absolute control a mortal can have with a Coin is the decision to refuse it.

Does Marcone understand that?  We don't know yet.  Has he taken some kind of protective precautions (via Monoc or whatever)?  We don't know.  We just don't have enough data.

34
DF Spoilers / Re: Molly’s trial… what if…
« on: January 20, 2025, 03:01:30 AM »
Quote from: SerScot on January 18, 2025, 06:02:03 PM
Harry had played it cool and not shamed the Merlin.  We all saw the various windows in Harry’s soulgaze of Molly.  Suppose the Merlin imposed the Doom of Damocles on Molly but assigned her apprenticeship to Eb… or LtW instead of Harry.  Would she be the Warden image we saw.  More capable in battle because her Master was less gentle with her in training?

Discuss…

It would have been better if Harry hadn't embarrassed Langtry, but not for Molly so much as for Harry himself.  Harry's clumsiness at politics has cost him dearly by the end of Battleground, and there's a connecting trail from that trial to Harry's suspension from the Council.

What makes it worse is that Harry has proven that he can play the game when he has to do it.  He's shown the ability to play at the same level as Marcone and Lara.  But he just couldn't bring himself to do it with Langtry, and it's come back to bite him.

As for Molly...I don't think it would have made much difference.  Langtry apparently really believes that warlocks always backslide, sooner or later.  From that POV, killing Molly early could save the lives and/or sanity of multiple potential victims later. 

35
DF Spoilers / Re: What's your favourite conversations in the series?
« on: January 06, 2025, 05:41:07 PM »
Quote from: Mira on January 06, 2025, 03:17:40 PM

Quote
Murphy - "Those spineless, arrogant, egomaniacal sons of bitches," Murphy growled. "Who the hell do they think they are, selling out their own people like that?"
Harry's warning to Murphy is significant here in my opinion and yeah, eventually led to her death.  Don't get me wrong, like a strong minded woman and all, but this was also Murphy's weakness.  On some level when it came to justice she thought she had all the answers, hence her reply.Not saying she was wrong, but at the same time she is judging a world she knows nothing about based on her own sense of justice and right and wrong.

There's more than a little truth in that.

For that matter, when Harry and Karrin had this conversation in the Wal-Mart, it was after the loup-garou rampage.  That's vitally important.

Quote
Harry - "One last thing. If you come in on this, you have to understand something. You have to promise me that you won't haul SI and the rest of the police in on everything. You can dig up information, use them discretely, but you can't round up a posse and go gunning for demons."

Murphy - Her eyes narrowed. "Why the hell not?"

Harry - "Because bringing mortal authorities into a conflict is the nuclear assault of the supernatural world. No one wants to see it happen, and if they thought you might do it, they'd kill you. Or they'd pull strings higher up and get you fired, or framed for something. They would never allow it to pass. You'd get yourself ruined or hurt or killed and it's likely a lot of people would go down with you." I paused to let the words sink in, then asked, "Still want me to tell you?"

Murphy - She closed her eyes for a moment and then nodded, once. "Hit me."

Harry - "You're sure?"

Murphy - "Yeah."

The pre-Fool Moon Karrin Murphy, IMHO, simply would not have been able to accept the reality of that limitation.  The idea that she would have to ignore felonies, stand aside and do nothing while predators prey on mortal children and murder and rape and otherise do what outfits like the White Court and the Red Court do...it would have been more than she could make herself do before the loup garou forcibly humbled her.

After Fool Moon, she had the hard fact of Ron Carmichael's death to emphasize the truth of Harry's warning:

"Because bringing mortal authorities into a conflict is the nuclear assault of the supernatural world. No one wants to see it happen, and if they thought you might do it, they'd kill you. Or they'd pull strings higher up and get you fired, or framed for something. They would never allow it to pass. You'd get yourself ruined or hurt or killed and it's likely a lot of people would go down with you."

36
DF Spoilers / Re: so ... soulgaze? the Sight?
« on: January 06, 2025, 05:34:45 PM »
Quote from: Mira on January 06, 2025, 03:28:08 PM
I don't disagree here because supposedly the Korean kid was too far gone down the path.. However there was never another point of view based on a soul gaze either.  I think it can cut both ways, what Harry saw in his soul gaze with Molly is prime example of that, he saw that she had the potential to be good and just as much to be very evil indeed.  I know he was the only one willing to take the Doom with her, but I don't think Harry was the right wizard to do that, Molly needed a more experienced wizard and one less prejudiced in her favor.

I agree, but lots of people need lots of things that aren't available.

I started a thread a little bit ago about how perceptions of the story change with age.  One thing I've learned with age is 'the best you can do is the best you can do'.  Harry was not the ideal master for Molly (ideally, she would have had a more neutral and much older and more experienced Wizard as master, one she didn't have the hots for as well).  But...Harry was the best she was actually going to get.

Overall, he did a pretty good job.

37
DF Spoilers / Re: so ... soulgaze? the Sight?
« on: January 05, 2025, 09:30:39 PM »
Quote from: Mira on December 18, 2024, 12:02:02 PM
I don't think Harry saw anything horrible in Susan.  Actually he never has mentioned what he saw in their soul gaze.  I also think at that point in time Harry was so lonely and in need of whatever kind of love he could get, he failed to see the extent of Susan's ambition and where it could lead to
I don't think she understood a lick of it, I don't know if it was what she saw that made her faint, or shock from the fact that such a thing was possible made her faint.   Yet for all of that, deep down it was her own denial that such things were real and dangerous that led to her downfall.

Exactly.  She might have fainted precisely because the reality of the stuff she wanted to be true was more than she was prepared to cope with.

I disagree that the soulgazes are all that subjective.  What JB said was that the form of the truth they show you varies, but what they show is always true.  I suspect any Wizard soulgazing the Korean boy would get the same basic signal, in whatever form.  There just wasn't much else left there except the evil.

A judgement call might exist with a subject who isn't all the way gone.  But I doubt it was an issue with the Korean boy.

38
DF Spoilers / Re: Looking for a WOJ?
« on: January 05, 2025, 09:21:36 PM »
Quote from: g33k on December 14, 2024, 05:23:42 PM
No, I think "13" a highly-likely number, one of the "mystical" numbers, and usually an "unlucky" one in many Western traditions.

OTOH, it's a very _predictable_ number (for the above reasons).

From the Doylist POV, it suffers from being both too many (that many same-y foes is narratively pointless, messy, and confusing) and too few (a reasonable number to actually track them all down, but having "another Nemfected" to produce at-need is very useful for an author (q.v. Justine) which isn't possible if you've already ID'ed all 13).

By this analysis, I like 666 simultaneous Nemfections as the limit:  same advantages as 13, without the downsides.

It might also depend on who is infected.  Some people might need more 'juice' to influence or control than others.  So while there's probably a limit, it might not be a single number.

39
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 05, 2025, 09:19:43 PM »
Quote from: Dina on December 24, 2024, 04:01:27 PM
This is so awesome! I laughed at the evil hat joke and I can't believe I never thought about Harry soulgazing himself. That is incredibly clever.

That's an idea I never thought about!  It's a good question, I'd love to see someone ask it of JB (if they haven't already somewhere).  Would it even work?

For that matter, suppose someone broke the Fifth Law, and as a result a Wizard met up with himself or herself within one's own time line.  Could you soulgaze yourself?  That is, could, say, 50 year old Harry soulgaze 200 year old Harry?

40
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 05, 2025, 09:17:10 PM »
Quote from: g33k on December 23, 2024, 02:31:50 AM
I'm pretty sure it's going to be the reverse of that; things will be much worse in the Mirrorverse.

The book is particularly taking inspo from the old ST:TOS episode (where everything was worse).

The other thing I expect we'll see a lot of influence from is the old Jimmy Stewart movie It's a Wonderful Life, where the protag gets to see the alt-timeline if he hadn't been there just being himself, being a good person.

Susan _will_ be there... but maybe as a fully-turned Rampire?  Not Harry's friend!  No Maggie-Jr, ofc.

EvilHarry will be allied with Mavra.

Murphy will have spotted EvilHarry as a bad guy, and thus have zero trust for HarryPrime.

Michael won't have retired the way he did; he might be dead, he might just be much worse off -- loss and tragedy within his own family?



Worst of all, of course -- EvilHarry will wear a hat.

If we've got to do the alternity story (I've commented before that I tend to dread those, though I've seen exceptional good ones), what I would want to see is that EvilHarry's other choices led to both good and evil outcomes that didn't happen here, and some good and evil outcomes that happened here didn't there.

The thing is that every choice has effects, which in turn cause more effects, and every choice has good and bad consequences stemming from it.  I'll be disappointed if AlterHarry's choices led to either all-better or all-worse, because that's not not how choices work.

For an example from our time line:  Harry's unwise decision (and it was unwise, from the POV of Harry at that time) to hang out with Red-infected Susan led to Maggie.  That's good.  It also led to Shiro's agonizing torture-murder.  That's not good.  Maggie's existence is good...but it also enabled Harry's enslavement to Mab.  That's not good.

All choices produce multiple effects, even within a timeline, it's very rare for a choice to produce no good or no bad.

I'm sure the other time line will be worse overall, otherwise the story would be pointless.  But there really should be both good and bad from whatever the decision was.


41
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 05, 2025, 09:10:49 PM »
Quote from: Dina on December 21, 2024, 03:50:55 AM
Yes, I know. I am very aware, but I am not forced to like it. With moderation, it is ok, but sometimes it is too much, and he has already suffered more than enough.

I agree, JB overdoes it on that sometimes.  I've thought that throughout the series.  It's natural, given Harry's situation and life, that he'll often encounter painful situations and choices and problems, but sometimes JB lays it on too thick.

42
DF Spoilers / Re: What's your favourite conversations in the series?
« on: January 05, 2025, 09:08:40 PM »
Quote from: Avernite on January 02, 2025, 10:54:43 PM
Molly's trial isnt high-brow, but it's high-stakes.



Speaking of short sentences with great force, from that trial, when the survivors of the battle arrive:

Quote
My old mentor was wearing his usual overalls and T shirt.  His bald pate shone with sweat, and he looked tired, but he was smiling over the pugnacious set of his lower jaw.  The air around him fairly crackled with intensity, a mantle of power that hung around him in a subtle haze.  Ebenezar reached behind him to hold the door open.

Michael walked in.


You have to know about the Knights of the Cross to understand just how portentous those three words can be.

Another few pages later, Harry is musing about how he'll have to protect himself in the future from Langtry's hostility:

Quote
I had struck a blow against his authority, declared myself an enemy of his administration.  There was no way he could ignore that kind of challenge from a morally suspect young punk like me.  He would have to bring me down.  If I wanted to avoid that, I'd have to keep my eyes open, my wits sharp, and I'd have to continue to do whatever I could to secure myself against him.

In short, I'd become a politician.

Unfortunately, Harry didn't follow through on this resolve.  He ignored Council politics to the point that it ended in disaster at the end of Battleground.

 


43
DF Spoilers / Re: Politics and magic
« on: November 25, 2024, 04:19:14 AM »
Quote from: Tinfoil hat on November 19, 2024, 06:51:47 AM
I think a deal can be done or has been done before just not in the way the politicians thought it was. In my mind, i can see Lara, Mab or what ever entity proming a young politician money and support in exchange for a few favours. Dude agrees thinking its a normal thing, usual political deal and what not, only for the entity to came back and collect only then for the guy to realise f..... it wasn't a human but who you gonna tell
Ps the White court or rather house wraith most likely has the most political connection. I mean political and non political sex scandals are an everyday occurrence.
On that note politicians have side pieces is not rare its the norm. On of the wraith sisters encounters a promising politician gets him /her addicted and boom

We don't even have to speculate about that, Harry muses on Lara's ability to pul Federal strings at the end of Changes.  It would be very interesting to have a list of politicians and appointed officials who have slept with Lara or one of her sisters.

Note too that the manipulation, or the deal, doesn't have to be with the politician himself.  As real-world lobbyists know, at lot of the time it's just as useful to get a hold on the politician's chief of staff or assistant or a family member or whatever.  Sometimes it's safer and less likely to be noticed, too.  A Senator's or General's brother could be an occasional bedmate/slave of one of Lara's sisters, and she could influence the target through the brother, for ex.

Of course we should also keep in mind that this goes both ways, too.  We don't know exactly what the Librarians can and can't do, but apparently they are feared.  I wouldn't be surprised if promising 'arrangements' sometimes get cut off by Librarian interference.


44
DF Spoilers / Re: The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
« on: November 25, 2024, 04:07:58 AM »
Quote from: Mira on November 23, 2024, 05:59:11 AM
  Recruit isn't the same as making Thomas her Knight.  No, she isn't lying about trying to recruit him, but she can recruit all she wants knowing full well it cannot happen.. Is she lying?

I'm not sure what that even means.  Recruit means make him her Knight, or at least that she would definitely offer him Knighthood.  She might (and I say might) be able to 'offer' it to someone she knows cannot accept it, but she would have to present her 'offer' supercarefully to get around the 'no falsehood' compulsion, and Thomas (or whoever) could easily force her to tell the truth with even a simple direct question.  It's an extreme stretch at best.

I'm pretty sure Mab can't get around the compulsion by 'qualifying' a statement later.  That would reduce the compulsion to nothing, it would be trivially easy to get around and nobody would even bother referring to the idea that the Sidhe can't speak a falsehood.

She can carefully phrase direct factual statements to imply a lie, or leave important information out, or otherwise lie with the truth, but the statements themselves must be factual at the time, or at least she has to truly believe they are factual at the time.

There just isn't much wiggle room in Mab's recruitment statement.

Quote

There is also several quotes in Cold Days  over three pages which explains more or less as to why she may threaten to recruit Thomas, Mab isn't serious about it, even if it were possible, it's Harry that she wants.  This is where Mother Summer opens Harry's eyes to what Mab's real job is, and what is on the line, makes it easier to understand why Thomas just isn't suitable for the job.

page 331 Cold Days;
Mother Summer is now hitting home on what Mab really does to Harry..page 332

Finally on the next page Harry gets it..  333 Cold Days;
This is why, though maybe she wasn't telling a lie about recruiting Thomas, she was still bluffing.  Thomas isn't a starborn, Harry is.. With the BAT coming Mab needs a Knight that can deal with Outsiders, that is Harry, not Thomas..

Yes, she wants Harry.  I'm sure she sees Thomas second best on several levels.  But if Harry is dead (really dead, I mean, gone and not coming back unless God wills it), then Thomas would be her next choice, because then she can't have Harry anyway.  Or at least, Thomas would have been her choice at that time, whether that's still true years later is another matter.

45
DF Spoilers / Re: The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
« on: November 18, 2024, 06:10:32 AM »
Quote from: Mira on November 13, 2024, 01:53:18 PM
Does it?  Remember why you should never bargain with the Fae!  They never can be trusted! And what is the foundation of trust? Truth! In my opinion the point missed repeatedly by mortals is they fall for the Fae cannot lie line.  The Fae cannot lie, but that is by their own standard of what a lie is, not what a mortal's concept of a lie, is.. There are many shades to the truth, and the Fae are expert and using all of them.  Especially with Mab who can twist things to the point where no, she isn't knowingly lying, but nor is she telling the whole truth!
Nor if the image Harry saw of Thomas in the soul gaze without the Hunger Demon real, would she want that frail human as her Knight.  I think not.  However unless there is a way to shut off the Hunger Demon, which Margaret may have learned that secret from Lea or Mab, the Demon would clash with the Winter Knight mantle.. In fact the Demon and the Mantle working together would make quite a monster in my opinion.  So thank you for making my point, Mab might not have been lying to Harry about that, but at the same time she has no intention of carrying out her threat of making Thomas her Knight. 

From Small Favor:

Quote

"Not having it could have gotten me killed, too," I said.  "And then you'd have wasted all that time you've put in trying to recruit me to be the next Winter Knight."

"Nonsense," Mab said.  "If you died, I would simply recruit your brother.  He would be well motivated to seek revenge upon your killers."

That's a direct statement on Mab's part.  Not an implication, or a suggestion, or a hint, it's a direct declarative statement.  Either she means it...or she uttered a falsehood, which as far as know she simply can't.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 34