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The Dresden Files => DF Books => Topic started by: lumps937 on June 17, 2017, 03:11:26 AM
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I'm rereading Proven Guilty. Right after the Ladies leave Mac's, Harry says, "Sometimes, Mac can be downright angelic." Might Mac have some connections Upstairs? He seems to have more personality than some of the angels we've met, so that doesn't really fit, but is it possible there are angelic scions, much like fae scions?
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Mac is a guy, nothing he's done has shown he's more than a normal guy. And he's Out.
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I'm rereading Proven Guilty. Right after the Ladies leave Mac's, Harry says, "Sometimes, Mac can be downright angelic." Might Mac have some connections Upstairs? He seems to have more personality than some of the angels we've met, so that doesn't really fit, but is it possible there are angelic scions, much like fae scions?
That possibility has been mentioned once or twice. There are several other occasions where Harry refers to Mac (or his food/beer) as heavenly and such.
But there's also a WoJ that says Mac has never done anything beyond the means of a mortal.
Some take that as a sign that he's vanilla. Some think he might have been the Winter Knight (Tam Lin), which is a mortal mantle. Some think he's a Scion/changeling/nephilim that's remained powerless. Some think he's an angel or some other being that set aside his power/mantle/Grace, giving up who he was to be a (transubstantiated) mortal named Mac, who has never done anything beyond the capabilities of a mortal.
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How about Mac being a Changling?
It could make sense, with Mab healing him, and him having extraordinary healing abilities. Further it could offer him a long life.
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How about Mac being a Changling?
It could make sense, with Mab healing him, and him having extraordinary healing abilities. Further it could offer him a long life.
As far as I understand it, being a Changeling cant last that long without outside intervention (Mab or similar). Otherwise their Choice just gets made unconsciously, but they'll eventually fall out on one side or the other.
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As far as I understand it, being a Changeling cant last that long without outside intervention (Mab or similar). Otherwise their Choice just gets made unconsciously, but they'll eventually fall out on one side or the other.
I would say that's an assumption. We haven't seen any older changelings, other than Sarissa.
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I would say that's an assumption. We haven't seen any older changelings, other than Sarissa.
Ummmm, Exactly? :P
Im basing int on this and the fact that Sarissa had to Bargain with Mab.
2011 Bitten by Books Q&A
Does Kincaid have the ability to “choose” like Faerie changelings (i.e Meryl/Fix/Lily)?”
All scions do, though if they never twig to the fact that they ARE a scion, it’s their actions that make the Choice for them. Kincaid made his Choice a long, long time ago.
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Ummmm, Exactly? :P
Im basing int on this and the fact that Sarissa had to Bargain with Mab.
Okay, and maybe Mac made a similar choice to what Kincaid made.
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Okay, and maybe Mac made a similar choice to what Kincaid made.
But then he'd either be a full Fae (which Harry would have noticed by now) or he'd be an actual, factual vanilla Mortal with no unusual healing abilities whatsoever. Changeling only fits him if he's managed to stall out straddling the fence.
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Okay, and maybe Mac made a similar choice to what Kincaid Sarissa made.
But then he'd either be a full Fae (which Harry would have noticed by now) or he'd be an actual, factual vanilla Mortal with no unusual healing abilities whatsoever. Changeling only fits him if he's managed to stall out straddling the fence.
Sorry, fixed it.
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But then he'd either be a full Fae (which Harry would have noticed by now) or he'd be an actual, factual vanilla Mortal with no unusual healing abilities whatsoever. Changeling only fits him if he's managed to stall out straddling the fence.
Sorry, fixed it.
Actually, you were more correct the first time. Kincaid is (as far as we know) a vanilla mortal that chose what he is, but has managed to live for centuries. That's probably more like whatever Mac is, rather than an unchosen.
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Actually, you were more correct the first time. Kincaid is (as far as we know) a vanilla mortal that chose what he is, but has managed to live for centuries. That's probably more like whatever Mac is, rather than an unchosen.
Are you thinking that Kincaid actually /is/ human somehow, rather than simply lying to Harry that time? Id always thought His unconscious Choice had to be his Inhuman side which is what kept him alive. Unless he chose Human and his Human side turned out to be a Wizard? That only works if he's somehow Lost his magic recently (otherwise he'd have used it in SmF, no?).
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Are you thinking that Kincaid actually /is/ human somehow, rather than simply lying to Harry that time? Id always thought His unconscious Choice had to be his Inhuman side which is what kept him alive. Unless he chose Human and his Human side turned out to be a Wizard? That only works if he's somehow Lost his magic recently (otherwise he'd have used it in SmF, no?).
I don't think Kincaid was lying. I think he thinks he's just as human as Harry, who isn't entirely human. Compared to vanilla humans, Harry is a demigod. He'll live for centuries, his injuries heal much better than normal for humans, and he has access to power that lets him manipulate reality around him to certain degrees.
By comparison, we know that Kincaid has lived for centuries, has somehow survived the things he's faced in that time, and has senses (and potentially abilities and skillsets) beyond human levels. He could quite possibly be more human than Harry in some ways.
Now, as to the source of Kincaid's longevity and senses, I'm not sure. I don't think we know enough about the nature of Changelings/Scions/Nephilim to know what physically and spiritually happens to them if the choose mortality. Are Kincaid's genetics superior to a normal human's because of his parentage? And if so, is his physical body left as-is if he decides to remain mortal? Maybe, maybe not.
Personally, I figure wizards are descendants of scions that chose mortality, but got to keep a small measure of power or ability. Kincaid might be the same, but from a different branch in the sire-tree.
Which would make him just as human as Harry.
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To Piggyback on Griff, we don't know if wizards have some genetic thing that sets them apart from the rest of humanity.
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To Piggyback on Griff, we don't know if wizards have some genetic thing that sets them apart from the rest of humanity.
Well, just to footnote my thoughts, 1) genetic variation is very small, and 2) there's no proof (yet) that magic is genetic at all in the Dresdenverse.
Every human shares at least 99% of identical code. All variation exists in that 1%. There could be just one sequence that's activated for practitioners. Or, the difference could be entirely metaphysical, in which case there's no genetic variation. Charity might not have had a genetic sequence for practitioning; she just had a practitioner's spirit. When she gave birth to Molly, that spirit was still strong, and was passed on. But when she had Daniel, she'd shut that down, and it wasn't passed on.
I tend to think there's at least some genetic variation, but it's not a guarantee.
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I don't think Kincaid was lying. I think he thinks he's just as human as Harry, who isn't entirely human. Compared to vanilla humans, Harry is a demigod. He'll live for centuries, his injuries heal much better than normal for humans, and he has access to power that lets him manipulate reality around him to certain degrees.
By comparison, we know that Kincaid has lived for centuries, has somehow survived the things he's faced in that time, and has senses (and potentially abilities and skillsets) beyond human levels. He could quite possibly be more human than Harry in some ways.
Now, as to the source of Kincaid's longevity and senses, I'm not sure. I don't think we know enough about the nature of Changelings/Scions/Nephilim to know what physically and spiritually happens to them if the choose mortality. Are Kincaid's genetics superior to a normal human's because of his parentage? And if so, is his physical body left as-is if he decides to remain mortal? Maybe, maybe not.
Personally, I figure wizards are descendants of scions that chose mortality, but got to keep a small measure of power or ability. Kincaid might be the same, but from a different branch in the sire-tree.
Which would make him just as human as Harry.
Well, we know Fae changelings arent supposed to retain any of their fae Power, that's rather the whole point. It's always possible that Kincaid found some sort of Haf-Choice where he retains Power AND Mortality, but that that point hes some sort of Special Case like Sarissa or Goodman and not really useful for comparison.
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Well, we know Fae changelings arent supposed to retain any of their fae Power, that's rather the whole point. It's always possible that Kincaid found some sort of Haf-Choice where he retains Power AND Mortality, but that that point hes some sort of Special Case like Sarissa or Goodman and not really useful for comparison.
I doubt he's Fae, or anything even Fae adjacent, based on the aura Harry saw. Since there are rules that apply to them but not to other creatures (iron, lies) I'm not going to assume they all have the same rules about the choices.
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I doubt he's Fae, or anything even Fae adjacent, based on the aura Harry saw. Since there are rules that apply to them but not to other creatures (iron, lies) I'm not going to assume they all have the same rules about the choices.
We dont have to assume, the WOJ we have on Choices was specifically in reference to Kincaid.
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Didn't Harry see him with his sight? Wasn't it a Hellboy like sight?
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We dont have to assume, the WOJ we have on Choices was specifically in reference to Kincaid.
All it says is that he made a choice. Not what choice he made, or the conditions of the options.
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Didn't Harry see him with his sight? Wasn't it a Hellboy like sight?
demony yes, but we cant read much into that since Murphy is as much an Angel.
All it says is that he made a choice. Not what choice he made, or the conditions of the options.
My mistake, I though the WOJ is where it was stated he was something else, but I was definitely wrong on that. Might have actually been in BR, from McCoy (which a less reliable source for sure)
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Wouldn't be funny if it turned out that Mac was Goodman Grey's father? He just chose not to be a bad Nagloshii, and likes beer.
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Wouldn't be funny if it turned out that Mac was Goodman Grey's father? He just chose not to be a bad Nagloshii, and likes beer.
I still feel like his background is going to connect to Vadderung in some specific way. Which is not to say that it would have to be Norse, just that whomever we are calling Vadderung these days would be a Named Character in Grey's Origin Story.