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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 06:20:38 AM

Title: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 06:20:38 AM: I have been looking at the character ideas that are being posed and seeing a trend. It is a trend that flows from one game to the next and its getting a bit old I wan to see if we can break the cycle and come up with something that breaks the stereotype of gamers. I understand the attraction of these types but isn't it getting a bit old.

Post character ideas that do not fall into the following categories
1) "I'm evil but not really" examples include Kincaid, Thomas Raith, Angel, Spike, and drizzt do'urden.

2) "Law Breaker" any character that is a dodge on the 7 laws.

3) "Lone Wolf with something to prove" examples any character played by Tom Cruise, Dirty Harry, and I hate to say it Harry Dresden

Also post any other archetypes you feel are over done.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: iago on March 25, 2010, 06:30:19 AM: Harry's friends have been very good about training him out of that lone wolf mentality.

I'll also say that our collaborative character creation method makes creating lone wolves a bit tough. :)
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Jaroslav on March 25, 2010, 07:15:13 AM: Quote from: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 06:20:38 AM
1) "I'm evil but not really" examples include Kincaid, Thomas Raith, Angel, Spike, and drizzt do'urden.
I wouldn't really put Thomas in this category. It's not like he's heartless monster who suddenly turns into a good guy, like Spike is. He's just a decent guy who's trying to handle being a vampire.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 07:58:27 AM: @Fred, Harry is improving and you are right about the character creation. It is one of many things I love about the game, its ready made party unity and no more of this so you meet in an inn crap.

@Jaroslav: As far as Thomas goes his motivation is an excuse for him to be likable. He is exactly like spike its just that his monster period is not covered much by the books. He was no virgin when he met Harry in "Grave Peril". Do you think he wasn't eating before that? And now he has reverted to what he was. Just ask anyone who has been through AA or NarcAnon just because you stop drinking does not mean you aren't an alcoholic. I understand the attraction. Most of us gamers were unpopular growing up and never got the girl so we all wish we had some dark secret power that we could unleash on our tormentors but hold barley in check around the girls. It lets us be the bad boy they all seem to want while maintaining the kindness that we are all sure makes us better people than the jocks they snubbed us for. I don't want to go all pop psychology on this but look at what sells and who we all dress up as at cons Boba Fetts always out number Lukes even-though Luke was the star and Fett had like 2 lines just like Kincaid who's popularity vastly out weighs his face time in the books. We even have a guy on here who is obsessed with Cowl a faceless 2nd banana villain who is in 3 chapters of one book and then dies. Wolverine, Batman, The Punisher, Edward, The Comedian, Rorschach even Han Solo was a reformed drug smuggler the list goes on forever. The only really virtuous heroes that really get any love are Harry Potter and Spiderman and even Spiderman had to put on the black suit for a while so he too could be dark and conflicted. I am not saying that they are not good characters I would just like to see us branch out a bit.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Ihadris on March 25, 2010, 08:09:14 AM: I think part of the reason that some of these character tropes keep appearing is that they are appropriate to the genre. Many of the main characters in Dresden are walking a very fine line in a very grey area and I think that sort of feel is likely to appear in peoples games with the RPG.

From an actual gameplay perspective suggested character types, like the White Court Vampire, by their very existence have to have killed through feeding and unless they want to become an NPC are likely to be the "Im evil but not really characters".

Personally I dont see these kinds of characters as a problem, if thats the sort of game my players want and the sort of world they want to explore then that is fine by me. But where I think we will see some real originality is with the Pure Mortal, Were-Form and Changling templates.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: blackheart on March 25, 2010, 01:44:07 PM: Part of the issue might be that the Dresdenverse by it's very nature does not lend itself to black and white characters.

Even Murphy, the closest thing to a lawful-good paladin (excepting Michael Carpenter) has a history of relationship issues and hit a really rough patch after Kravios' ghost ran her over.

If you want a "let's be HEROES" game, I salute you. Sometimes I want to be the clearly good knight slaying the clearly evil dragon to save the clearly in distress princess.

But the Dresdenverse is rarely clear-cut and easy to navigate. Kinda like life. Which is part of it's appeal.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Jaroslav on March 25, 2010, 04:58:27 PM: Quote from: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 07:58:27 AM
@Jaroslav: As far as Thomas goes his motivation is an excuse for him to be likable. He is exactly like spike its just that his monster period is not covered much by the books. He was no virgin when he met Harry in "Grave Peril". Do you think he wasn't eating before that? And now he has reverted to what he was. Just ask anyone who has been through AA or NarcAnon just because you stop drinking does not mean you aren't an alcoholic.
I don't think Thomas ever had a monster period.
(click to show/hide)
Even now when at his worst he still doesn't want to go around killing people.
I think the only time Thomas ever killed someone by feeding was when he first transformed. Since then I see him as struggling with what he and his family really are.
(click to show/hide)
Until his recent transformation that is.
I just want to say the main reason I'm defending Thomas is that I think it's possible to play a white court vampire that doesn't fall into the "I'm evil but not really" cliche, and I think Thomas is a good example of that.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 05:47:00 PM: I'm sorry but I have to disagree no matter how conflicted he is about it he is still character wise no different than Angel or Drizzt Do'urden he is an excuse to play a dark sexy bad guy with out having to deal with all the negative social repercussions. I am not say that these characters are not playable they are I just think that they are way too popular for the reasons I have listed before. I would like to see gamers, myself included, work a little harder in coming up with an idea. If people are going to be derivative, which in a license game is inevitable, why is no one on this board emulating Murphy, Michael, or even Harry no what we have are a bunch of Thomas, Kincaid, and Cowl clones. Again I am guilty too my first character idea was a white court caster. I'm just trying to encourage all of us to stretch a little bit more.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: iago on March 25, 2010, 06:00:08 PM: So, in one of my earliest playtesting games, I had a guy playing a dude in a trenchcoat who was cagey and didn't talk much. You'd think this was a stereotype, right?

Well, he had some reasons for being that way. Maybe it was the fact that he had a talking ancient mask stashed in his (enchanted) overcoat that was the source of much of his power. And that mask insisted on staying hidden whenever other ancient (or not so ancient) powers stood nearby. (Another player's theory about that mask is what lead to the notion of an Autumn Court that crept into the book's text just a little.)

And he also wasn't going the loner route. As I recall, he was a bodyguard by trade, and that had bound him closely to the other PCs. He might be a very private person, but he had plenty of reason to hang around other people, to be part of a group -- even if it was "just a job". (Or was it? His mask's attitude towards the work he did was unusually encouraging.)

So, this is something I wanted to point out because I think it breaks the loner paradigm neatly and clearly. Loners, for me, are people who actively work against being a part of the group.

I don't think Thomas qualifies, there. Family is important to him, whether we're talking about his brother or his sister. He's a joiner. He might have lots of reasons to lie, to put off airs like he doesn't care, but he does.

As to "I'm evil but not really" side of things: I think the other posters have got it right. There are very few examples of unalloyed goodness in the Dresdenverse. So that's not an escapable paradigm. We can't all be Michael -- nor should we. If Michael Carpenters were frequent, they wouldn't stand out as such an important, vital part of the mortal struggle against the supernatural.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Saedar on March 25, 2010, 06:01:42 PM: I have a character idea based on the character of Ezekiel "Zeke" Stone from the Brimstone series. A little more magic, a little less guns, but then, I've always had a huge crush on magic :D. Would you say this falls into the category of "evil but not really?"

Can you explain a little further about what you mean with these categories? For example: Drizzt and Angel are two VERY different characters. They both have a "tortured history" (ASPECT!) but they manifest differently. Drizzt is a truly good individual who is trying to fight back against the stigma placed on him based on his racial identity. Angel is trying to cope with the horrible and LONG history of his own.

Also, for Lawbreaker, if this game is set to take place at the height of the Vampire-Wizard war, it might make sense for there to be more and more talents popping up that don't have the guidance to avoid breaking the Laws that they might have had with the White Council before the war broke out.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Mickey Finn on March 25, 2010, 06:07:50 PM: Stone wasn't actually evil...he was condemned to Hell by a single mortal sin. (What's more, it's a justifiable, moral cause in the eyes of some, and removed someone who was actually evil...but it was still enough to condemn him, no matter who's right or wrong on the issue.)

So, no. ;)

And you get a brownie for knowing that show existed, let alone being a fan. Two brownies if you're a fan of Profit as well.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: iago on March 25, 2010, 06:12:47 PM: Quote from: Mickey Finn on March 25, 2010, 06:07:50 PM
And you get a brownie for knowing that show existed, let alone being a fan. Two brownies if you're a fan of Profit as well.

Brimstone was one of my favorite (canceled) shows, m'self. I never got a chance to get into Profit, tho Rob D. loaned me his copy of the series a while back. It was definitely an interesting one, but I dunno that I would score the double-brownie points. :)
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Saedar on March 25, 2010, 06:20:28 PM: Quote from: Mickey Finn on March 25, 2010, 06:07:50 PM
Stone wasn't actually evil...he was condemned to Hell by a single mortal sin. (What's more, it's a justifiable, moral cause in the eyes of some, and removed someone who was actually evil...but it was still enough to condemn him, no matter who's right or wrong on the issue.)

So, no. ;)

And you get a brownie for knowing that show existed, let alone being a fan. Two brownies if you're a fan of Profit as well.

1.) Brimstone was amazing. I actually hadn't heard of Profit, though. Thanks! You just gave me something to do at work tonight instead of working!

2.) That was kinda my point about Stone. Not all characters who have some kind of evil sponsor or have a somewhat dark history fall easily into the "evil but not" category. Sometimes, people are just plain unlucky.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: iago on March 25, 2010, 06:22:58 PM: Quote from: Saedar on March 25, 2010, 06:20:28 PM
1.) Brimstone was amazing. I actually hadn't heard of Profit, though. Thanks! You just gave me something to do at work tonight instead of working!

2.) That was kinda my point about Stone. Not all characters who have some kind of evil sponsor or have a somewhat dark history fall easily into the "evil but not" category. Sometimes, people are just plain unlucky.
These are the "goosed by Evil" type of characters. Which Harry *maybe* is, depending on what you think of Mab and her current ownership of his debt.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Saedar on March 25, 2010, 06:25:03 PM: Yeah.... But is Mab really evil? More like unrepentantly cruel! ;)
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Aine on March 25, 2010, 06:31:23 PM: Quote from: Saedar on March 25, 2010, 06:25:03 PM
Yeah.... But is Mab really evil? More like unrepentantly cruel! ;)

More like spiteful for the fun of it than cruel, really. I mean, who hasn't seem some little kid sitting outside an anthill smushing ants? Is that "evil"? If I were Mab, I'd probably consider humans pretty much the same way...

(Insert long debate about soulessness, free will, and morality with no real conclusion *here*)
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Mickey Finn on March 25, 2010, 07:11:47 PM: "Goosed by evil"

*CACKLE* Love.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: TheMouse on March 25, 2010, 07:21:23 PM: One problem with trying to avoid all those stereotypes is that they are examples of people with flaws. Part of the genre is that people are flawed. It's what makes people like Michael stand out so much: They manage to be good in a world of moral gray areas.

I'm really not shocked that people are making flawed characters. "Bad guy, but not," is an obvious example in a word where demons and vampires stalk the night. Lawbreakers are also obvious, because the Laws are some of the closest things we get to spelled out objective morality. Lone wolves are people with personal problems (and thus flawed) or people with a secret (and thus interesting, at least in theory).

So while I do agree that people should not restrict themselves to those categories, originality for the sake of originality is not necessarily meritorious.

Now that I've argued against your idea, I'm going to post a character that hasn't broken any Laws, isn't a good badguy, and isn't a loner.

The character (whose name I haven't thought up yet) is an untrained wizard. When he was younger, he basically ran away to join the circus. He ended up being taken in by some changelings performers, who did their best to teach him how to use his powers and to keep him safe. Obviously, their views on magic have influenced his. Now he lives in (wherever the game ends up being set) living as a street performer. His conflict is trying to figure balance his history and perspective when entering into the world on his own, especially his entry into wizardly society (which the changelings kept him hidden from, thinking they were doing him a favour).

So, not a loner, not a Lawbreaker, and not sort of evil. Just kind of confused.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 07:47:02 PM: Quote from: iago on March 25, 2010, 06:00:08 PM
As to "I'm evil but not really" side of things: I think the other posters have got it right. There are very few examples of unalloyed goodness in the Dresdenverse. So that's not an escapable paradigm. We can't all be Michael -- nor should we. If Michael Carpenters were frequent, they wouldn't stand out as such an important, vital part of the mortal struggle against the supernatural.

I'm not say we should all be Michael, far from it this is a noir world and there should be lots of gray area PC's I was just commenting on the almost total lack of any strongly good characters on this board. where are the repentant lawbreakers like Molly, the Father Forthhill's, the good wardens like Ramirez, or the wizards who do good while respecting the importance of the laws instead of finding ways to get away with breaking them.

Your example sounds like a good fit very noir but still a team player.

"Drizzt and Angel are two VERY different characters."
Again I am not talking about backstory here what I am talking about is the psycology of the player the reason we are attracted to the dark hero with the tortured past who has all the powers of an evil being with out that pesky evil alignment. To me they seem like a dodge if they were rarely played they would be interesting, even refreshing, but they make up an absurd percentage of RPG PC's.

"One problem with trying to avoid all those stereotypes is that they are examples of people with flaws."
I know this. they are examples of people 3 or 4 specific flaws. What I am saying is that I wish people would pick different flaws. I also think it speaks to our psychology as a group that you are only the 3rd person to post on this thread an example of what I was looking for and the rest are defending the need to play Thomas and Kincaid.

That said I love your idea way to go!
I love
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Shecky on March 25, 2010, 08:09:59 PM: It's easy to lump a broad spectrum of characters under big labels, mainly because human perception is geared towards seeing patterns and resemblances. But that is utterly irrelevant if we remember that each character, no matter what they have in common with lots of other characters, is a unique individual.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Aine on March 25, 2010, 08:16:35 PM: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for yourselves! You're ALL individuals!
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 08:42:42 PM: Oh well I tried.

Welcome to Hot Topic were you can be different just like us. :'(
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Deadmanwalking on March 25, 2010, 08:49:31 PM: Quote from: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 08:42:42 PM
Oh well I tried.

Welcome to Hot Topic were you can be different just like us. :'(

Chill, man. There are plenty of characters who fit none of your stereotypes, your tone was just completely wrong for getting people to talk about them. Heck, look at the Dresden Files Asia recruitment thread, there are half a dozen characters in it, and none of them are really in either of your categories. Or look at the Weird Character Ideas thread, or re-read the Dresden Files themselves (which include the Alphas, Michael, Toot-toot, Murphy, Mouse, and probably a dozen more who don't fall under your stereotypes).
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Aine on March 25, 2010, 09:16:26 PM: Quote from: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 08:42:42 PM
Oh well I tried.

Welcome to Hot Topic were you can be different just like us. :'(

Awww, cheer up Brian. You know what they say...

Really, I was just demonstrating my character type. The short, somewhat plump motherly Amazon who isn't all that good with a bow and arrow, but unbelievably tenacious, gets that "lift the car off a toddler" strength when required, and keeps fighting the good fight while wishing everyone could just get along. And quotes Monty Python films when she has nothing germane to add to the conversation.

*whistles annoyingly catchy tune*
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Ihadris on March 25, 2010, 09:29:52 PM: I beleive the group composition thread also had a few very original suggestions in there. I would provide some myself as I tend to play the sorts of characters you were wanting to hear about but Im resisting the urge to really flesh out any of my character ideas until I get my hands on the books; anything I have at the moment is merely just a concept and a trouble aspect at most.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Lanodantheon on March 25, 2010, 09:52:32 PM: Quote from: Deadmanwalking on March 25, 2010, 08:49:31 PM
Chill, man. There are plenty of characters who fit none of your stereotypes, your tone was just completely wrong for getting people to talk about them. Heck, look at the Dresden Files Asia recruitment thread, there are half a dozen characters in it, and none of them are really in either of your categories. Or look at the Weird Character Ideas thread, or re-read the Dresden Files themselves (which include the Alphas, Michael, Toot-toot, Murphy, Mouse, and probably a dozen more who don't fall under your stereotypes).

I agree. Chill out.

Your original intent was to get more original characters than the 3 you mentioned because you spotted a trend.
However, it is a trend in anticipation for a game this isn't even out yet...

No one has had a chance to play Harry Dresden in his own RPG yet. No one's been able to play any of those character types yet, no one's had a chance to try them on so to speak.

Also, ragging on what other people are playing is just bad form because not everyone has been exposed to every single character type. Some gamers have played for 20 years and have seen everything from Albino Drow half-breeds to eccentric Wizards to demi-gods of cthulu horrors and some of us have gamed for less than 1 and haven't seen any of those things.

I haven't been able to try out Drizzt or even a regular Drow yet. You are saying that I ~~can't~~ shouldn't try on a suit+tie that looks comfortable because a number of people are wearing that same suit+tie but it still looks comfortable.

I have a right to play a Drizzt clone if I want to as long as my group is cool with it.

Though, my take on Drow will be a Family based on Florentine nobles who (like the Sidhe in Dresden) are bound to speak the truth. But they're still the same Drow...And inspired by Assassin's Creed II.... ;D

The reason why so many character types on the forum seem ripped off from the books are because people want to play the characters they know fit in the setting first. The other reason being that people feel like trying those characters out.

My current choice for a character is a Hotshot Wizard who's a Hotshot because as a teenager he participated in a Group Ascension Ritual in an effort to become a full Wizard now as opposed to 20 years from now. It bit him in the ass, made some of his oldest friends go POOF and now he has to live with it. Technically he is Maverick in the middle of Top Gun after the....accident. I don't want to play him because he's Maverick-as-a-Wizard, I want to play him because he might be fun being a guy with a lot of power he's not sure he can control. And I plan to give him a State Alchemist's Silver Pocket Watch, a Drumstick and/or Hockeystick as foci because I can only do it in context in the Dresdenverse(after my brother smacks me).

Plus, dude at the end of the day, TDFRPG is a FATE game with collaborative character creation. Most of the characters posted including my own have been made in vacuum without other characters in mind. My Hotshot, my Vigilante Sorceror and even Chauncy's B@*($ are going to shift based on what other characters I'm playing with. Plus, if the GM says "No" to one of my ideas during creation I'm going to ask why and if he/she doesn't give me a good reason I'm going to call BS. I as will also call BS if someone makes a character so they can break the Laws of Magic willy nilly because that's dumb steam-venting.

Conclusion: If you don't want it in your game, catch it during creation, not on a forum for a game that isn't even out yet.....
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 26, 2010, 01:35:43 AM: Wow looks like I hit a nerve here I want to quote my own original post so you can all read it again. My intention was never to try to create a prohibition for the whole game or even the forums what I posted was a challenge to our collective creativity.
Quote from: srl51676 on March 25, 2010, 06:20:38 AM
I have been looking at the character ideas that are being posed and seeing a trend. It is a trend that flows from one game to the next and its getting a bit old I wan to see if we can break the cycle and come up with something that breaks the stereotype of gamers. I understand the attraction of these types but isn't it getting a bit old.

Post character ideas that do not fall into the following categories
1) "I'm evil but not really" examples include Kincaid, Thomas Raith, Angel, Spike, and drizzt do'urden.

2) "Law Breaker" any character that is a dodge on the 7 laws.

3) "Lone Wolf with something to prove" examples any character played by Tom Cruise, Dirty Harry, and I hate to say it Harry Dresden

Also post any other archetypes you feel are over done.

In this post I was asking for more not less. I was trying to break a pattern in increase the variety of inspiration that we have available to us. What annoyed me is that the majority of the response was to defend the pattern instead of taking up the challenge. Since There have been a few good examples. My next post will be one or two examples of my own.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Deadmanwalking on March 26, 2010, 01:43:37 AM: Quote from: srl51676 on March 26, 2010, 01:35:43 AM
Wow looks like I hit a nerve here I want to quote my own original post so you can all read it again. My intention was never to try to create a prohibition for the whole game or even the forums what I posted was a challenge to our collective creativity.
In this post I was asking for more not less. I was trying to break a pattern in increase the variety of inspiration that we have available to us. What annoyed me is that the majority of the response was to defend the pattern instead of taking up the challenge. Since There have been a few good examples. My next post will be one or two examples of my own.

I, at least, get that, but whatever your intent, your post came off as an attack on all characters like the ones presented. Which just isn't fair, and is likely to offend anyone who's ever seriously played such a character. You need to work on your phrasing.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Douglas on March 26, 2010, 06:23:28 PM: I think there's problem with the way your criteria are framed; particularly the last one. Most of the heroes from the books are loners in one way or another; Harry is self-evident. Murphy is a member of the police force, but she still goes off on her own or with Harry to deal with issues that the police can't or won't deal with, and her reputation at work suffers for it. Thomas was alienated from his society by his morality, Butters was alienated from his peers by his integrity, the Knights of the Cross are loners by their calling. The Werewolves and father Forthill are the only real "team players" on the list, in the case of the werewolves by common origin, and in Forthill's case by his role as support mechanism. And unless you coordinate an all wizard or all cop party, your characters will by necessity be individuals who seek aid from beyond their groups in order to pursue their own missions and agendas. Part of that comes with the genre, the lone detective pounding the pavement, not sure who to trust. Of the characters I've been working on none of them seem like Tom Cruise or Dirty Harry to me, but all of them could be described as "loners" in one way or another.

Brief blurbs (not full backgrounds by a longshot, but I don't want to do that much typing right now) for three characters, trouble aspects for two.

Strand, who in earlier drafts was a mortal but is now a lycanthrope, has a conscience. He runs with a gang of fellow lycanthrope criminals, but he still cares about people outside the gang; so when he's not being muscle for drug dealers he tries to undo some of the harm that he sees happening around him. He's tolerated as long as he still fights for the rest of the pack, but if he's going to hunt down a child-snatching troll he'll need friends and allies from elsewhere, enter the other PCs.

Trouble aspect: Heart of a man, soul of a wolf

Tucker believes in an Earth mother, in certain interpretations of old gods, and that he has a duty to protect against supernatural threats. That's fine when he's the one who deals with something summoned that should not have been, but when it's a sorcerer among his own community who decided that charm spells were the coolest thing in D&D and starts hurting people then stopping the threat has a higher price. Practitioners start thinking of him as a one man spanish inquisition, to use a label that has been applied to Harry, but with no Warden in sight someone has to step up. If he wants help or friends, he'll have to look elsewhere.

Trouble Aspect: No love for the watchdog

Damian is damaged goods; a warlock decided to reshape him into what the warlock thought was a better version of himself, and broke a lot of stuff in his head trying. After someone dear to him killed herself from the stress of being controlled Damian managed to break free and decapitated said warlock with a fire axe. He a wreck now, and trying to figure out what happened to him as the only way he has to combat the fear that rules his life now. Oh yes, and he thinks the fire axe is talking to him.

Still working on his aspects
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Cajun Guy on March 26, 2010, 09:50:02 PM: Sniff. Sniff.. I smell the reek of troll in the air. >:(

My .02...

RPG's are games for fun. If the player is having fun then that is what counts. I created the character I wanted to play and could care less if some one else thinks it is silly or derivative. Archtypes exist for a reason because they are fun, popular and generally touch some primal cord in us all. All media is derivative in one form or another. There are only a few archtypes for stories and they have existed since man first started telling tales. Read some Joseph Cambell to get the idea (George Lucas really was into his work).

Basically if the player is having fun that is all that matters. If I want to Play Larry Desden the cocky, cynical , lone wolf mage who cares as long as I have fun doing it? I know I have seen games that I thought were completely lame, but I held my tounge because the players were having fun and ultimately that is what it is all about. Who am I or anyone else to judge what brings pleasure to another as long as no one gets damaged in the process.

So, instead of being the critic on the sideline try making your own character and have fun. It is a little harder than standing in the peanut gallery throwing stones but the rewards are much greater.

Cajun Guy
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 26, 2010, 10:22:57 PM: So as promised my next post here is two of my own character ideas that I have been working on. Name: David Allan Ward Jr.
High Concept: Cop & Reluctant Hydromancer (may be reworked as a fireman since we have cop)
Trouble: Sins of the Father
Quote: Never call me David! Its Allan....or Officer Ward to you!

Event one: Grew up the son of a wizard (David Sr.) who he idolized. Until he was convicted by the White Council of killing his wife (Officer Cathy Ward) and her lover (Detective Gary Paterson) in a jealous rage by burning down the house. David Jr. (16) barely escaped and was badly burned.
Aspect: Fire Bad!
Event Two: After being fostered by Rev. John Hay and his wife Linda David Jr, now Allan, swore off magic and devoted himself to school and church for the next two years. After graduation he followed in his foster father footsteps and joined the Marine Corps. After four years service including action in Afghanistan he returned to Spokane and joined the police force.
Aspect: To Protect and Serve
First Adventure: Trial By fire
As the son of a cop killer Allan Ward knew he would never rise in the ranks but he did not join the force for glory or promotions. He joined the force to protect regular people from criminals like his father who magic or no was nothing more than another perp. but he never expected politics to force him in to Special investigations home of the loonies and the losers. But when a string of petty vandalism turns to deadly arson Alan Ward will face his trial by fire.
Aspect: Hang in there! I'm coming!

another less developed idea

Name: Adam Summerset Duke of Undertown
High Concept: Homeless wizard
Trouble: Raised by Winter
Quote: "I'd rather stand in the gutter than kneel in your palace!"

I have not fleshed out events for this guy yet but he uses the Spirited Away and Magical MacGyver aspects from the aspect forum. He was stolen as a child and raised at the Winter Court upon his escape he was cursed to always live in squalor and madness in the mortal world. He willingly contends with poverty and voices to keep his freedom. As a well trained wizard he has become a leader and protector to the homeless community .

Both of them have issues and I think fit well into the noir world but I hope avoid the types I was talking about. Feel free to critique or offer advise or ideas.

@Cajun Guy read Campbell 8 years ago as part of my philosophy degree he has some interesting things to say and his influence on Lucas reinterpretation of the Christ myth with Star Wars is interesting. I have been meaning to see The Hidden Fortress as well. I am aware that there are a limited number of stories but you must be aware that there are more than three. Again my tone may have been cutting (I apologize) but my intent was to encourage creativity beyond the three most common stories that we see in RPG characters. I have gamed weekly for the last 10 years with a great guy who always plays the lone wolf character and we all rib him about it but he plays it well so its cool. I am not saying never play these characters just that it is better if we all stretch a little once in a while.

So here is what I have so far. to quote you Cajun Guy "instead of being the critic on the sideline try making your own character and have fun. It is a little harder than standing in the peanut gallery throwing stones but the rewards are much greater." Show us what you've got too.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Cajun Guy on March 26, 2010, 11:15:39 PM: Show us what you got. See the asian game thread I already did . It may not be the greatest but it is a character I like and want to play. It doesn't fall neatly into your slots as far as I am concerned. you have to remember that the internet isn't the best for relaying subtle nuances. Plus, the game mechanic alone forces you to use some cliches to create a character. It is not only encouraged but the system forces the player to do it. Once again it is about having fun. These elements you complain of are great in helping a GM create story hooks.

What bothered me about your message was not the tone, which I understand is difficult to convey properly online. What bothered me was that it comes across as arrogant of you to appoint yourself minister of what is good and original. A skilled writer can take a cliched premise and turn it into something special.. JB has done it quite a bit. Everyone has their own opinion which is valuable, YMMV.

My group and I started playing in 1981 and still do albeit online as we all grew up and moved away. I and several of my group have been published in games and we even got playtesting credit for a few games. Our regular GM moved to Atlanta and helped write for the WW which was and still is some of the most creative stuff in gaming (although not near as good since they sold the company). So, I know of what I am speaking. After a while you start to realize the purpose is to have fun.

I understand what you are doing, but it smacks of gamer snobbery, and nerds like us don't make good snobs ;) . In short let folks have fun and quit raining on other folks parade.

What is cliched and hackneyed to you may be new and wonderful for someone who is just starting out. Criticism like you are trying to lay might hurt someone with potential that is just starting out. Worry about your own house and let others take care of theirs. Lead by example. If you keep writing good stuff it will encourage others to try.

CG
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: mrsleep on March 27, 2010, 01:40:30 AM: Was thinking on your restrictions and came up with an oddball character.

De-incarnate.

I thought it would be fun to have a character that was based on the concept of reincarnation, only he didn't start out this life with a clean slate. End result: 10 yr old kid with old man memories. I figured his last life would have been about world war II era, and I've been toying with the idea of him as a mechanic or pilot.

It'd be a bit of a stretch to include something this off the wall in a Dresden game but it' work well in a SOTC run.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Ihadris on March 27, 2010, 04:02:03 AM: Quote from: mrsleep on March 27, 2010, 01:40:30 AM
It'd be a bit of a stretch to include something this off the wall in a Dresden game but it' work well in a SOTC run.

I dont think its such a stretch. After all
(click to show/hide)
Ivy is a child with the combined knowledge and memories of her predecessors.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: chadu on March 28, 2010, 07:09:43 PM: Inspired by a thread in Spoilers...

Captain Jack Parrot
TEMPLATE: Changeling* + Were-Form** [looks like -8, so Chest-Deep or Submerged Power level]
HIGH CONCEPT: Goblin-Blooded Wereparrot Pirate
TROUBLE: Man Out of Time
WHERE DID YOU COME FROM?: English Privateer during Queen Anne's War. [I'm a Pirate!]
WHAT SHAPED YOU?: Discovery of non-human parentage. [I'm Not Quite Human]
WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST ADVENTURE?: Conflict with Edward Teach. [I Made Blackbeard Cry]
WHOSE PATH HAVE I CROSSED?: Guilliaume d'Morne, Merlin of the White Council, who threw me into the future. [Wizards are JERKS!]
WHO ELSE'S PATH HAVE I CROSSED?: Donald Morgan, Warden of the White Council. [This Future is Lame]

A pirate, of goblin blood (thus, a Changeling), wreaked extravagant havoc during Queen Anne's War (including a face-off with Blackbeard!). He learned his shape-changing from another wereparrot. After a bloody conflict, the Merlin of the time decided to transport him to the future -- because he was too hard to kill!

* Changeling Package: Inhuman Recovery [-2]; Inhuman Speed [-2]; Inhuman Strength [-2]; total = [-6].
** Were-Form Package: ŠŠ Beast Change [–1]; Š Echoes of the Beast [–1]; Human Form [+1]; Diminutive Size [–1]; Wings [–1]; total = [-2].

Comments?
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Saedar on March 29, 2010, 03:17:16 AM: That looks fun! I am curious how he made Blackbeard cry! ;)

Out of curiosity, shouldn't you have a "Catch" for Cold Iron on your changeling side and it looks like your wereform refresh cost should be -3, rather than -2.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: kytanos on March 29, 2010, 03:44:29 AM: Quote from: Saedar on March 29, 2010, 03:17:16 AM
That looks fun! I am curious how he made Blackbeard cry! ;)

Out of curiosity, shouldn't you have a "Catch" for Cold Iron on your changeling side and it looks like your wereform refresh cost should be -3, rather than -2.

dont disadvantages Give you points? Atleast that's what I saw in the baltimore book, things like "catch: faerie crap. +2"
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Deadmanwalking on March 29, 2010, 04:00:30 AM: Quote from: kytanos on March 29, 2010, 03:44:29 AM
dont disadvantages Give you points? Atleast that's what I saw in the baltimore book, things like "catch: faerie crap. +2"

Absolutely! But of the listed things, only Human Form is a disadvantage. Making the Were-Form total out at -3. Unless we're missing something, of course.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: chadu on March 29, 2010, 01:18:10 PM: Quote from: Deadmanwalking on March 29, 2010, 04:00:30 AM
Absolutely! But of the listed things, only Human Form is a disadvantage. Making the Were-Form total out at -3. Unless we're missing something, of course.

I think you're missing that Chad is crap at math. ;)
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: Saedar on March 29, 2010, 07:41:53 PM: Quote from: chadu on March 29, 2010, 01:18:10 PM
I think you're missing that Chad is crap at math. ;)

Ha! No problem. Just trying to get a feel for things.
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: The Codex on March 30, 2010, 03:09:13 PM: I have an Idea for a character but not sure if it is entirely workable.....

Edward Gales,
Descendant of Sir John de Galeis, illegitimate son of the Edward the Black Prince.....

What sorts of aspects would be suitable for a knight of the cross potential? (they are all decendants of Kings and the black prince was in line for the throne)

“Chivalry is in my blood”

With the exception of the sword there is no ‘specific power that the knights have, even Sanya states he is an atheist

I don't see him as a Lone wolf type at all, actually as a decendant of Royality possibly a leader of men, also a warrior and smart. (sort of a Robin Hoodesk, leading his men and working with them not dresden style, going it alone)

Anyway any thoughts would be usefull as I am struggling

PS this is my first post so please help the newbie ;D
Title: Re: Lets all try to be a little more original
Post by: srl51676 on March 30, 2010, 04:49:39 PM: The idea that he is from an illegitimate line is interesting as well as the Robin-hood idea. The first idea that comes to mind is a benevolent rogue type like Robin-hood who leads a modern band of thieves something like the BBC series Hustle (later remade for the US as, the vastly inferior, Leverage) you would be to the Knights of The Cross as Robin Hood was to regular knights working for a chivalrous purpose but with fewer restrictions on your behavior. Perhaps you steal relics back from greedy or evil individuals. I was considering adapting Anna Valmont from Death Mask for my wife in a similar way. She would be a redeemed thief now working for the church against the Denarians. This is just my quick take on the idea good luck and welcome to the boards.