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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: raidem on May 29, 2016, 03:35:22 PM
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My previous thread recording each instance of "there you are" in the text has been deleted by the year end monster, so wanted a place to have a listing of these instances. I've wondered if perhaps some of these instances are somehow related to Uriel and Id Harry's hint that "No matter where you go, there you are." It should be noted that this saying comes from two sources acknowledged in text.
Fool Moon
My double slipped around me and got in my way before I could leave the circle of light. "Hold it. You really don't want to do this."
"I'm tired. I feel like shit. I'm hurt. And what I really don't want is to waste any more time dreaming about you." I narrowed my eyes at my double. "Now get out of my way." I turned to my right and started walking toward the nearest edge of the circle. My double slipped in front of me again, apparently without needing to cross the intervening space.
"It isn't that simple, Harry. No matter where you go, there you are."
Grave Peril
I felt my smile harden, and I peered past the spotlights to the
dias. "Bianca, dear, there you are. This was a costume party, was it not? A masquerade? And we were all supposed to come dressed as something we weren't? If I misread the invitation, I apologize."
The crowd parted at one side, and Thomas and Justine came to us, blazes of pale skin and brilliant color amidst the scarlet and black. "There you are," Thomas said. He glanced down at my goblet and let out a sigh. "I'm glad I found you in time."
"In time for what?" I asked.
"To warn you," he said. He flicked a hand at the refreshments table. "The wine is poisoned."
Then I was in a new place. In the dark. Cold stone chilled me where I lay upon it. All around me where the whispers of things moving in the shadows. Scaly rasps. Soft, hungry hisses, together with the gleam of malevolent eyes. My heart pounded in my throat.
"There you are," whispered one of the voices. "I watched them have you, you know."
Summer Knight
I sat there, too tired to move, until the lights began to dim. I vaguely remember feeling Ebenezar heft me off the ground and get my arm across his shoulders. The Gatekeeper murmured something, and Billy answered him. I woke up back at my place, in bed. Billy, who had been dozing in a chair next to the bed, woke up with a snort and said, "Hey, there you are. You thirsty?"
Changes
“Martin and Susan are seeing what they can get off the disk,” I said. “They’ll contact me as soon as they know something. Meantime, I’ll get a couple hours horizontal, then start hitting my contacts. Go to the Council and ask them for help.”
“That bunch of heartless, gutless, spineless old pricks,” she said.
I found myself smiling, a little, at my coffee.
“Are they going to give it to you?” Murphy asked.
“Maybe. It’s complicated,” I said. “Are you going to get CPD to help me?”
Her eyes darkened. “Maybe. It’s complicated.”
I spread my hands in a “there you are” gesture, and she nodded. She rose and paced over to the sink to put her cup down. “What can I do to help?”
“There you are,” she said irritably. “I’ve been calling your house all evening, Harry.”
“Sorry, Mrs. S,” I said. “I’ve been out.”
I don’t think she could make out the words very well, but she wasn’t stupid. “Obviously you’ve been out,” she said. “What happened to your nice new door? It’s wide-open! If we get another one of those freak thunderstorms, the rain will pour right in and we’ll have mold climbing up the walls before you can say Jack Robinson.”
Ghost Story
Stan hadn’t deserved it. He hadn’t been looking for it. And that creature, that demon, had murdered him. I felt my jaw begin to ache as it clenched harder and harder. I could feel my rapid pulse beating behind my eyes. There was a terrible pressure inside my head and inside my chest, and with it came a rising wave of anger, and something darker and deadlier than anger that came welling up like a great wave from an unlit sea.
It. Wasn’t. Right.
No, it wasn’t. But the world wasn’t a fair place, was it? And I had more reason to know it than most people twice my age. The world wasn’t nice, and it wasn’t fair. People who didn’t deserve it suffered and died every single day. So what? So somebody ought to do something about it.
My right arm and shoulder burned like fire as I felt my right hand slowly form a tight fist. The knuckles popped one by one. They hadn’t ever done that before. I turned to face the creature’s image in the reflection. It was crouched over Stan’s corpse, its talons tapping lightly on the dead man’s open eyes, its mouth still stretched into that horrible, wide smile.
And when it saw the look on my face, its smile widened and its eyes narrowed.
“Ahhhh,” it said. “Ahhhhh. There you are.”
“Well, that’s what I mean,” I said. “The scale still isn’t balanced. And I don’t think you send people back just for kicks.”
Uriel regarded me pleasantly. He said nothing.
“So you did it for a reason. Something you couldn’t have gotten with your seven whispered words.”
“Perhaps it was to balance the situation with Molly,” he said.
I snorted. “Yeah. I bet all the time you go around solving your problems one by one, in neat little rows. I bet you never, ever try to hit two birds with one stone.”
Uriel regarded me pleasantly. He said nothing.
“I’m headed for the great beyond, and you still won’t give me a straight answer?” I demanded, smiling.
Uriel regarded me pleasantly. He said nothing. A lot. I laughed again.
“Tell you what, big guy. Just tell me something. Something useful. I’ll be happy with whatever I get.”
He pursed his lips and thought about it for a moment. Then he said, “No matter where you go, there you are.” I blinked. “Goodness,” I said. “Buckaroo Banzai?”
“Confucius,” he said.
Cold Days
“Harry,” Thomas said.
“Harry, easy, easy. You’re safe.” There were lights in my eyes. They weren’t pleasant. I squinted against them until I could see Thomas’s upside-down head looming over me.
“There you are,” Thomas said. “We were getting worried.”
He lifted his hands from my arms and gave the side of my face something somewhere between a pat and a slap. “You weren’t waking up.”
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Great, now I have the Portal turrets stuck in my head.
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one of the problems I see with the theory is Jim has a habit of saying the same things a lot. He uses "snorted" a lot in the series if you watch for it.... So it could be Jim dropping hints or just his writing style.
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I'm more interested in the full statement "where ever you go , there you are." that line is a "Proverb" meaning sometime the problems you face are of your own making. So the question is why do all these different people keep telling Harry "Where ever you go , there you are"?
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I'm more interested in the full statement "where ever you go , there you are." that line is a "Proverb" meaning sometime the problems you face are of your own making. So the question is why do all these different people keep telling Harry "Where ever you go , there you are"?
I just saw something where the meaning is "One cannot run from ones problems indefinitely"
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one of the problems I see with the theory is Jim has a habit of saying the same things a lot. He uses "snorted" a lot in the series if you watch for it.... So it could be Jim dropping hints or just his writing style.
It's just his writing style.
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I will concede that not every instance of "there you are" is significant. I say the phrase has potential in that say Harry for whatever reason does time travel say into the past. I can see someone come up to him and say "there you are" mistaking this TT Harry for Harry. Or, on the other hand, recognizing the TT Harry and saying the same thing.
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Changes
... I have to leave off at this point cuz i don't have pdf files for the rest of the books, I got kindle app for them and they don't allow me to copy and paste. I'll return here.
I believe his landlady said something similar during the fire.
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I have all of them on the kindle app and I've never had a problem copy/pasting from it on android.
On topic: I'm leaning towards it being an incredibly common phrase with no real significance. Of course I could be wrong.
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Just added instances from Changes on...
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/16715875.jpg)
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It's clear that "No matter where you go, there you are" has some significance we just don't know yet. My aim with this is to ask if perhaps part of the mystery lies in some of the instances in which "there you are" is used has added significance in a return to some of these instances. Grave Peril being a prime candidate for Harry to return to in some capacity. I'd argue Changes as being another instance, not to mention Harry's take down of HWWB when he was just 16 years old.
So, Id Harry tells Harry "No matter where you go, there you are."
Uriel tells Harry the same thing "No matter where you go, there you are." This was something Uriel considered useful for Harry to know, though Harry was totally clueless as to what it meant.
Reviewing some of the instances' I'd say Mrs. Spunklecrief had a hidden conversation with another Harry that was present and overlayed on top of Harry in Changes.
Harry returns to some of the events in Grave Peril. He returns in some capacity to Changes.
Some futuristic Harry assisted a younger self in the flashback to Harry vs. HWWB. Alternatively, a Archangel whispered words into the ears of a young Harry to help him defeat HWWB.
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raidem,
I want to shuttle this to the DFRC, but it is typically best to let topics bake in the spoilers section first, since active discussion happens here more than in the DFRC (which is as it should be). Please don't let this one fall off my radar. If it cools off and is done "baking" and you think it should be moved, nudge me.
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I will. Thanks for the consideration. :)
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I still won't be surprised if Merlin turns out to be Harry who time travels to the distant past.
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I will. Thanks for the consideration. :)
Don't let it autolock first, or you won't be able to edit the OP to include potential new quotes for future releases.
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There is a woj though that Merlin's lingo wouldn't be understandable, aka distinctly different than English. It was Jim's response to a query into the identity of the prisoner that talked with Harry in Demonreach. Some believed it was Merlin, Jim apparently shot that idea down. I could see some of the Dresdenverse characters going back to the time of Merlin though. My personal favorite would be to have Murphy stranded in time there.
Don't let it autolock first, or you won't be able to edit the OP to include potential new quotes for future releases.
Ok. I'll give it two weeks then ask for it to be transferred over. Ideally I just want it recorded so I have a complete accounting of the occurrences of the saying.
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There is a woj though that Merlin's lingo wouldn't be understandable, aka distinctly different than English. It was Jim's response to a query into the identity of the prisoner that talked with Harry in Demonreach. Some believed it was Merlin, Jim apparently shot that idea down.
Yeah, Merlin would've spoken Middle English, which sounds closer to Gaelic than English. He could've spoken Old English too, which is even further removed from modern English. Did Jim ever make it clear when Merlin actually lived? He might've even spoken Old Norman, depending on when he was around.
Either way, if there's a Word of Jim specifying that Merlin's speech wouldn't be intelligible to Harry, that means that he probably isn't Harry from The Future. Unless, you know, whatever upgrade enables him to create a stable time loop in which he founds the organization that pursues him centuries later in his personal past scrambled his brains a bit.
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Maybe the brit at demonreach is Prospero.
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It's clear that "No matter where you go, there you are" has some significance we just don't know yet. My aim with this is to ask if perhaps part of the mystery lies in some of the instances in which "there you are" is used has added significance in a return to some of these instances. Grave Peril being a prime candidate for Harry to return to in some capacity. I'd argue Changes as being another instance, not to mention Harry's take down of HWWB when he was just 16 years old.
So, Id Harry tells Harry "No matter where you go, there you are."
Uriel tells Harry the same thing "No matter where you go, there you are." This was something Uriel considered useful for Harry to know, though Harry was totally clueless as to what it meant.
Reviewing some of the instances' I'd say Mrs. Spunklecrief had a hidden conversation with another Harry that was present and overlayed on top of Harry in Changes.
Harry returns to some of the events in Grave Peril. He returns in some capacity to Changes.
Some futuristic Harry assisted a younger self in the flashback to Harry vs. HWWB. Alternatively, a Archangel whispered words into the ears of a young Harry to help him defeat HWWB.
i find it somewhat significant yes. The most direct translation that I've come upon, is nomatter the events leading up a thing YOU were always going to find yourself their by perview of your choices, of who you are. (Something cluebatted at, Harry finding himself. Saw a really excellent thread on it just the other day...) the summation of the parts were always going to equal the same whole. Harry is always going to be Harry, it's who he is, literally.
Could have some significance through Harry finding himself, recovering who he is, coming to be in this own place in time, ect. Something I think will be touched upon in the MM book.
But I can't figure out the significance of the other view points of finding him for sure.
"If a group of people stood surrounding a large house with thick brush on one side, trees on another, ect, and you asked all these people to describe the house, they'd all say something different, but not untrue. Because of the different perspectives each view presented something totally different. But not one of these people, even if they pool their information would know what the house is for sure. Because? Not one of them had gone up to the house, gone inside and explored not only the interior, but the materials, the design, the very foundation of what makes it stand." (This means taking pieces of it apart of course, change, the observer effect applied)
This is the difference between all those who 'find' Harry with 'there you are' and Harry finding himself.
The house of Harry stands as it is because Harry observed it standing there, of that design, with those materials, with those principles as the foundation. But perhaps the house was designed to stand that way from the beginning of it, and Harry had to observe its construction anyway?
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Yeah, Merlin would've spoken Middle English, which sounds closer to Gaelic than English. He could've spoken Old English too, which is even further removed from modern English. Did Jim ever make it clear when Merlin actually lived? He might've even spoken Old Norman, depending on when he was around.
Either way, if there's a Word of Jim specifying that Merlin's speech wouldn't be intelligible to Harry, that means that he probably isn't Harry from The Future. Unless, you know, whatever upgrade enables him to create a stable time loop in which he founds the organization that pursues him centuries later in his personal past scrambled his brains a bit.
We've been discussing the works attributable to the Merlin in another topic, and some of our efforts pinning down the timing in history got thick around this post (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,47548.msg2226572.html#msg2226572).
Conclusion I got? It's possible he started mucking around before the first century BCE, but there is more evidence that he was still around by the 4th century Common Era.
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To my mind the full phrase almost certainly has significance especially since it is thematically so similar to the 7 words Uriel gets to give Harry. It is all about self knowledge and using that self knowledge. I feel like it is a all tied together with harry not giving in to despair. Neg Harry could be defeated by Pos Harry, but a spiritually broken and mentally mangled Harry, that is what Nemesis wants.
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We've been discussing the works attributable to the Merlin in another topic, and some of our efforts pinning down the timing in history got thick around this post (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,47548.msg2226572.html#msg2226572).
Conclusion I got? It's possible he started mucking around before the first century BCE, but there is more evidence that he was still around by the 4th century Common Era.
If your attempts to date Merlin's life are accurate (and admittedly my thesis was written on the Crusades, not Imperial Rome, so I have little to contribute and can't really argue with your conclusions), then he most likely spoke Greek and Vulgar Latin, which explains why Latin would be the official language of the White Council (though modern Latin is almost literally nothing like the Latin actually spoken by Rome, and don't even get me started on Church Latin). In other words, even if Merlin was the prisoner in Demonreach, he would probably have spoken to Dresden in Latin, as Dresden's pretty obviously a wizard, but Harry's rudimentary Latin wouldn't be able to decipher it. It would be like a college student who took French trying to translate La Chanson de Roland without a reference guide.
Anyway, the point is that Merlin lived before dictionaries, mass media, the printing press, and the electric light bulb, all of which contributed to the significantly to the evolution of language until we have the homogenized English that the prisoner spoke.
Which is actually more interesting to me, because that means that that prisoner either was placed there relatively recently (within the past, say, two hundred years), or is an entity that has somehow kept up with linguistic evolution despite being in stasis. Could also be like Toot-Toot, who apparently can just decide what language he wants to speak. Hmm. Well, based on the information I have, I don't think I can make a reasonable guess. But it's an interesting question, and fodder for speculation.
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I can't imagine that we can read much into what the prisoner said, given that we've got other hideous critters also speaking to Harry and trying to bargain with him for release. I'm pretty sure there's some sort of telepathic translation going on. Barring the Chtulhu Fthagn that he got from one of them.
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To my mind the full phrase almost certainly has significance especially since it is thematically so similar to the 7 words Uriel gets to give Harry. It is all about self knowledge and using that self knowledge. I feel like it is a all tied together with harry not giving in to despair. Neg Harry could be defeated by Pos Harry, but a spiritually broken and mentally mangled Harry, that is what Nemesis wants.
Harry would have been better off if the 7 words he got were "You really should have sex with Molly"
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If your attempts to date Merlin's life are accurate (and admittedly my thesis was written on the Crusades, not Imperial Rome, so I have little to contribute and can't really argue with your conclusions), then he most likely spoke Greek and Vulgar Latin, which explains why Latin would be the official language of the White Council (though modern Latin is almost literally nothing like the Latin actually spoken by Rome, and don't even get me started on Church Latin). In other words, even if Merlin was the prisoner in Demonreach, he would probably have spoken to Dresden in Latin, as Dresden's pretty obviously a wizard, but Harry's rudimentary Latin wouldn't be able to decipher it. It would be like a college student who took French trying to translate La Chanson de Roland without a reference guide.
Anyway, the point is that Merlin lived before dictionaries, mass media, the printing press, and the electric light bulb, all of which contributed to the significantly to the evolution of language until we have the homogenized English that the prisoner spoke.
Which is actually more interesting to me, because that means that that prisoner either was placed there relatively recently (within the past, say, two hundred years), or is an entity that has somehow kept up with linguistic evolution despite being in stasis. Could also be like Toot-Toot, who apparently can just decide what language he wants to speak. Hmm. Well, based on the information I have, I don't think I can make a reasonable guess. But it's an interesting question, and fodder for speculation.
Although the communication between Harry and this particular prisoner might be more accurately assessed by your analysis than the following point, I'll mention that Jim says that what Harry "experienced" at the Outer Gates and what the Outer Gates are actually like are two very different things, but that his mind is "good" at re-interpreting it's paranormal input into simplified terms that he can understand without his head exploding. (that is HUGELY paraphrased from the WoJ) Jim also said that older, more experienced wizards would roll their eyes at his "ability" to do this. Thus it is within the realm of possibility that Harry's perceptions of the prisoner's communication were far different from the prisoner's actual linguistic background.
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Although the communication between Harry and this particular prisoner might be more accurately assessed by your analysis than the following point, I'll mention that Jim says that what Harry "experienced" at the Outer Gates and what the Outer Gates are actually like are two very different things, but that his mind is "good" at re-interpreting it's paranormal input into simplified terms that he can understand without his head exploding. (that is HUGELY paraphrased from the WoJ) Jim also said that older, more experienced wizards would roll their eyes at his "ability" to do this. Thus it is within the realm of possibility that Harry's perceptions of the prisoner's communication were far different from the prisoner's actual linguistic background.
That would make sense, too. It's explicitly stated that everyone does experience magic a bit differently; doesn't Ramirez experience a soulgaze as music? I can't remember if that was outright stated or if I'm making things up again.
The dialogue from the prisoner is mental; just pulled out my Nook to double check it. So yeah, speculation based on that is limited at best.
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Iirc, jim batted prisoner is Merlin down though. He outright said that theory was wrong.
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Iirc, jim batted prisoner is Merlin down though. He outright said that theory was wrong.
I recall him saying you couldn't understand the English from that time period. He could have been speaking Sidhe.
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He said something in addition to that. I believe he said something like "nice theory but no the prisoner isn't merlin." That was in reply to someone stating their theory that the prisoner was Merlin.
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Ok, I nailed it down. Apparently he's answered this before, but raidem pointed out an interview he discussed it in in this topic (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,46174.0.html), and I just transcribed the question.
Q: The original Merlin, does he sound British?
Jim: He’d probably sound so unintelligibly British that you wouldn’t be able to tell he was speaking English. No, he’s not the guy in Demonreach.
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Hey Serack can you transfer it over. I'll add to the OP as we get more quotes, more information.
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well just my two cents on the "No matter where you go, there you are" matter: I think it's more of an explanation of free will [ you are the sum of your choices, so no matter where you go ( on the scale of good and evil ), there you are (you still have a choice to change your path )]
and since angels are all about free will and choices it fits.
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The phrase also shows up in BR, though by context I dont think it really factors in to this discussion much:
"You're going to kill me anyway," I said. "Hell, you've pretty much got to. I mean, we're at war, after all, and there you are all immune to magic. Must be a lot of pressure from the Reds for the White Court to get off its ass and do something. Makes you wonder why you didn't just wham, kiss-of-death me back there. Maybe get it on tape or something so you could show it off. Or hell, why you haven't socked the kiss of death on Murphy there just to shut me up."
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Yeah, I included it in some original threads on this topic, but then the original thread got eaten. So when I recreated this one, I chose not to include it. On that topic, I theorized that perhaps the showdown between Harry,murphy vs Lord raith may get repeated in time travel or alternate reality. I admit though I might be overeaching. I think Murphy says something like we will do it your way this time. Overreaching I'm sure.