I am actually very happy with this chapter, as I was disappointed with the previous one. Still, I think that it makes no sense for Harry. That should have been the priority.(click to show/hide)
Harry's wrong on one count. Margaret died at or around 180. So in that sense Eb achieved his goal. Nobody took a run at her when she was ten. And Eb took responsibility for what she became.
And Eb is right, in that, Harry's existence is the cause of the deaths of his family and Susan.Total cheap shot, for starters was it the infant Harry's fault that Lord Raith killed his mother? Really? How much say does a six year old have in his father's living or dying by natural causes or other? As for Susan, while Harry had very little say there as well, he didn't even know Maggie existed, and Susan came to him to save her. Actually if anyone is the blame there it would be Eb, the reason behind the kidnapping was to do the generational spell to bump him off in the first place.
A little foreshadowing if you needed it. Does anyone think that Eb is coming to Christmas dinner at the Carpenters?
If little Maggie is traumatized then Harry might have been wiser to let her decide if she wants to come out. Maybe.Actually he did let her decide, he tried to treasure her, Mouse lent support and protection, but at no point was she forced to come out. Again once Eb heard the sound coming from her room Harry had very little choice, because Eb was so on edge he was ready to storm the room staff a blazing, all Harry could do was defuse the situation by introducing her.
Total cheap shot, for starters was it the infant Harry's fault that Lord Raith killed his mother? Really? How much say does a six year old have in his father's living or dying by natural causes or other? As for Susan, while Harry had very little say there as well, he didn't even know Maggie existed, and Susan came to him to save her.
Still, my main fear about that story is that Mister is not mentioned.
yuile, Demonreach is not a place for a child. Remember how his adult friends suffered here. Maggie wouldn't be able to live there. And again, Harry had several responsabilities.And Eb did not handle him as an adult. It is a great way to make Harry behave as an angry adolescent.
And yes, he said hurtful things to Eb, that was totally wrong.
And Eb did not handle him as an adult. It is a great way to make Harry behave as an angry adolescent.
I think you are totally missing the point, it doesn't matter how old Margaret was when she died. If Eb had been a parent when she was growing up, she may have never developed the resentment that made her apprenticeship with him such a disaster, nor ultimately causing her to rebel the way she did. Heck, she might even be still alive but for that.And Harry wouldn't have been born and there would be no Dresden Files. Which is all neither here nor there. If his point was to get her to an age where she could protect herself then Eb achieved what he set out to do.
Total cheap shot, for starters was it the infant Harry's fault that Lord Raith killed his mother? Really? How much say does a six year old have in his father's living or dying by natural causes or other? As for Susan, while Harry had very little say there as well, he didn't even know Maggie existed, and Susan came to him to save her. Actually if anyone is the blame there it would be Eb, the reason behind the kidnapping was to do the generational spell to bump him off in the first place.This has nothing to do with blame or responsibility. Any more then the Small Pox virus holds any moral responsibility because someone dies when exposed to the virus. None the less, if you catch it you die. It is what it is. Harry is a walking zone of death because of what he is. He didn't choose to be that thing, but that doesn't change what he is.
You never know..Actually he did let her decide, he tried to treasure her, Mouse lent support and protection, but at no point was she forced to come out. Again once Eb heard the sound coming from her room Harry had very little choice, because Eb was so on edge he was ready to storm the room staff a blazing, all Harry could do was defuse the situation by introducing her.All I said was that choosing to let Maggie control when she would choose to talk to Eb was a good choice. Maybe.
Not surprised he has issues with the svartalves. At this point I'd be surprised to hear of anyone McCoy doesn't have issues with.
Apparently he gets along well with the Kenku. :)
Yes, this entire chapter seemed needlessly angry. Harry has been dealing with these issues for years, so you would think he would have dealt with it better, and Eb is old enough to know how to have a civil conversation even over an emotional topic. It seemed purposefully designed to allow them to meet, to drop a whole bunch of hooks, but not allow them to resolve any of the things they could resolve by just talking for 15 minutes like adults. Obviously Eb will die before being able to tell him most of the things they should have discussed here.
And Harry wouldn't have been born and there would be no Dresden Files. Which is all neither here nor there. If his point was to get her to an age where she could protect herself then Eb achieved what he set out to do.Really? Perhaps if she had better support and guidance from her father from the get go, though maybe she would have been more physically vulnerable, but she may not have engaged in the behavior that eventually led to her death. Something Eb said is really troublesome, he eluded to the idea that he would only be interested in her once she showed talent. That fits with why young Harry was allowed to go into the orphanage/foster care system, at six he was too young to show talent..
This has nothing to do with blame or responsibility. Any more then the Small Pox virus holds any moral responsibility because someone dies when exposed to the virus. None the less, if you catch it you die. It is what it is. Harry is a walking zone of death because of what he is. He didn't choose to be that thing, but that doesn't change what he is.
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All I said was that choosing to let Maggie control when she would choose to talk to Eb was a good choice. Maybe.
The proper way is probably to ask each other questions and listen to their explanations but that would give too much of the plot away. Now we will get all kinds of misunderstandings to drive the plot even further.
The problem is unchecked emotions are dangerous for wizards. Both should have known better.
Hm, I think that Harry's need for family is overriding his common sense. I know he's saying that Maggie needs a dad but what she needs is safety and I'm not entirely convinced that he can provide that. I mean, sure, he can physically repel enemies but when you've got someone like Lara as an enemy, well she won't go for an obvious move. But I think Harry's projecting a little, and this is why he talks about Eb not being able to protect Maggie Sr.
Well, the point I'm trying to make is that being with Harry doesn't make her safer and could in fact, do the opposite. I read a review/recap of 'Christmas Eve' that helped me, b/c it had math/timelines to figure out and from there I could think of a non-violent example for things. With those dates, 'Changes' took place in 2008 and 'Christmas Eve' either takes place in 2011 or 2014. (Which means the youngest Maggie can be is 11 and 14 at the oldest).
And my example is that b/c Maggie has been illegally adopted, as Guatemala closed its doors to international adoption in 2008, and despite whatever paperwork Father Forthill did to arrange things, the fact that Maggie is there unlawfully doesn't change. If a baddie like Lara wanted to use mortal resources to use mortal authorities to take Maggie away they could.
I'm not sure how healthy it is for Maggie to be raised by the man who killed her birth mother.
For anyone who's curious about the timelines or just want a look: (https://anagnorisisawakening.dreamwidth.org/4043.html)
The Carpenters, more or less. In that time Guatemala of the 1980's and 90's, there were plenty of wealthy foreigners buying or outright kidnapping children to the point where the Guatemalan government closed its doors on international adoption so that its system could be reformed.
{... }"And once she was in Chicago, the Carpenters went to Father Forthill at St. Mary of the Angels and asked him to arrange for them to adopt her -- exactly the type of private international adoption that, by the time of Changes, was no longer allowed by Guatemala or the United States"
Maggie's parents citizenship doesn't matter in this case, as she wasn't living with them. Harry didn't even know she existed and I don't think he'd even be listed as the father on her birth certificate. He's only known her for about a year as well. I don't know how many, if any parental rights he'd have under the law.
Well sometimes kids have to be separated from their parents for their own safety unfortunately.
If Maggie was Guatemalan, but she wasn't, born in Guatemala maybe, but her parents were both American, that makes her a natural born American.jus sanguinis or jus soli? Nationality can be a minefield and even make you stateless. Ask a lawyer to know how this will work out ;D
It wasn't an international adoption, little Maggie was always American.She is a guest of the winter lady, that should offer some protection.
Oh parents claim rights all of the time, or rather it happens. Especially when babies are adopted, the mother gives the child up, but the father at the time cannot be found. Some have come back even a few years later to demand their parental rights. Now that maybe reformed, but oddly blood matters more than nurturing.. Also it isn't clear that little Maggie was formally adopted by the family she lived with, they may have merely fostered her. Actually I cannot see Susan giving her baby up for adoption, if she had, the Red King might not have been able to trace her. Whether Harry's name is on the birth certificate or not, there is something called a DNA test.
Yes, but not as often as they should. However in those cases they need a lot of proof that the parent is harming the child. There is no proof that Harry is abusing her nor that she is in danger where she is living. Also I doubt that the Carpenters would have allowed her to go and live with Harry if they felt she was in danger by doing so.
I'm not sure it matters too much about her being American, she was taken from one country to another by people who had no legal
rights to her.
gotta brush up on the subject. But I'm not too sure if her nationality is even listed as American.If her parents were both American, that is what she is, now perhaps at a later date she can claim duel citizenship because she was born in another country. However she is still an American by birth.
@Arjan: Protection from mortals?That is a problem in Michael's house but the winter lady fixed that. Protection from mortals is not really an issue in Molly's apartment.
That is a problem in Michael's house but the winter lady fixed that. Protection from mortals is not really an issue in Molly's apartment.
I do think this chapter serves as a nice foil for Michael Carpenter.
In Skin Game, Michael the ex-fighter goes over things with Harry, they agree that Harry should be a dad, and Michael explains why Maggie should be quite safe.
In this chapter, Eb the current fighter goes over things with Harry, they fight that Harry shouldn't be a dad, and Eb is all worried about Maggie's safety.
Just a comment: I have not idea what Guatemala law is,but I would suspect is similar than here in Argentina, because most Latin America has the same kind of law. We have jus soli. If you are born here, you are an Argentinian, no matter if your parents are from USA or China.
That said, we don't know where Maggie was born and where she was "formalized" with a document or something
Another complication is I don't remember what happened with Harry while he was "dead". Was he officially dead? But if he is officially alive there is no doubt that he has the rights.
Eb's in the same spot here. By admitting (even a little) that Harry should keep Maggie close, he's admitting that he was wrong to keep Margaret and Harry far, which is admitting that their emotional issues are partly his fault. If he can convince Harry (and himself) that keeping children distant is the only good option, his past actions are justified, and he was a Good Dad/Grandfather all along.
Like I said, chance for duel citizenship down the road if she wants it. Same here if you are born here you are American no matter what the parents are. Now this question for you Dina, if you and your husband came here to visit and you had a baby, would it be Argentinian since I assume you are both citizens of Argentina or American since it was born here, or would it have a shot at both?
... Well thing is, I think they'll take a look at Harry's history and decide that they do need to intervene.
Well, it's not like Harry can just fireball a social worker(lol!) and he doesn't have any mortal in a position of power who can help him out.
My impression of the chapters is that Eb was a bit too emotional. Having read the story with Mouse as the narrator, I realize more about Mouse's abilities and his littermates. It seems to me that the black council may have used there dogs in some way to increase the pressure on Eb, to paint him with bad luck. What we see in some of the intensity of the arguments between Harry and Eb may therefore be the result of an outside force acting against Eb.
I'm also reasonably sure that any child agency will look at Harry living with his own biological daughter, and maybe issue a 'slap on the wrist' for the unorthodox way that ended up, but say "all's well that ends well" and move on to cases where they really do need to intervene.
Well, I have my classes a little rusty but this is the thing. In theory, Argentina would consider a baby born in USA not Argentinian but there is a human right that is the right to have a nation. So, if we don't see the baby as Argentinian and you won't see them as from USA, what? Well, IIRC, that is when we have the figure of being "Argentinian by option". We as parents would probably need to go to the Argentinian embassy and have them registered as an Argentinian citizen. I don't remember exactly the law but I know there are many cases of "apátridas" (it is the name in Spanish, I don't know the English translation). My mom know a person who was born from Argentinian parents living in France (jus sanguini) and it was more complicated because that person had been born in a boat from a third country (I don't remember which one). It was decades ago, but the parents had to go to an international court.
Caveat: if hubby and I were just visiting USA when we had the baby, it would be easily accepted that the baby is Argentinian, because "place of residence" is a factor too.
What is Mouse's story? I think I totally forgot about that. I remember that it was announced but I don't even remember having read it
It's "Zoo Day" the story about Harry taking Maggie to the Zoo. It's perspectives are 1/3 Harry, 1/3 Maggie, and 1/3 Mouse.Ah thank you! I have not read it. That is the one including in the second short stories compilation,right? I did not buy it, as I had all the stories but that one, and USA books are very expensive for me now. Besides, I was not too desperate for reading a Maggie story.
Unsurprisingly, Harry is the most ignorant of the 3 about what's going on.
Edited: Mira, I did not know that. In fact, I thought that Dreamers were people born in USA from foreign parents and not recognized as citizens.
@Mira: She wasn't born on US soil. Social Workers aren't always brought in for abuse cases. Any Svartelf jurisdiction probably won't be recognized by the US. That'd be an interesting thing to read to about.
A person born abroad in wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother and a U.S. citizen father acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), if at least one of the parents resided in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the person's birth.
She wasn't born on US soil. Social Workers aren't always brought in for abuse cases.
involving more than 6.6 million children (a referral can include multiple children). And less than half of child abuse cases will never be reported because neighbors, friends, and relatives are often too nervous or afraid to contact social services and stop the abuse. Some worry they will break the family apart, especially if they are wrong, while others fear retaliation from the abuser.
The reality is just the opposite:
Reporting someone to social services is nothing to fear. The individual you report will never know that you are the one who made the call.
Further, social services will not take any action against the person you report if they find no evidence of abuse or neglect. In fact, the report and the ensuing investigation will never become a part of the individual’s record.
Likewise, social services will never remove a child from the home if your suspicions were incorrect.
Well for the US, Maggie doesn't appear to have any documentation. Like a Social Security Number or a Birth Certificate. DNA testing could confirm paternity. And all of that presumes court proceedings to establish the facts.
In Blood Rites Eb pretty much puts the blame on himself for the way Maggie turned out. But since Jim has baked in Choice as a primary plot device in the DF, Maggie always had one. He also changed it up enough so that Harry turned out differently.
Also as an aside, if you were raised in a dysfunctional family like me, this dialog rings true. You know everything that can make the other person bleed and when things get hot you start launching missiles at weak spots.Indeed, as I witnessed in the dynamic between my husband and his father and aunt.
The gatekeeper can make the white council arrange the papers :)True, he may be the godfather Harry didn't know he had! :o
A person born abroad in wedlock (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wedlock)Did I miss something? ::)
Did I miss something? ::)
Since Harry is on other then good relations with the WC they probably won't help. However since no official notice of her birth exists then the argument would be she was a US citizen since there is no record or her being anything else. DNA would show Harry as the Daddy. The problem would arise when she needs a record of birth to apply for a SS number. But money can fix that. Of course this won't be an issue in the books.
A child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if certain statutory requirements are met. ... According to U.S. law, a CRBA is proof of U.S. citizenship and may be used to obtain a U.S. passport and register for school, among other purposes..Notice it said, U.S. citizen parent or parents...
A Consular Report of Birth (CRBA) is evidence of United States citizenship issued to a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents who meet the requirements for transmitting citizenship under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).
Forget social workers, all someone would have to do is shine a light on how Maggie even got to the US in the first place, and Harry would be under immediate investigation from the FBI, CIA, and any other agency that investigates international crimes - for murder, kidnapping, and human trafficking at the least.
And wouldn't officials still be trying to figure out/deal with what happened at Chicken Pizza? Would they be able to link Harry to that? I'm not sure how Harry would react to that beyond panic.idk how I feel about Chichen Itza in that regard - it hasn't really been mentioned much beyond the vague warning of What Harry Is Willing To Do. Harry missed a year and can't exactly watch the news, so we have no idea how thousands of dead bodies appearing at an international monument played out with the authorities. Somewhere in the Dresden world, there's a cult of conspiracy theorists salivating over the 2012 Mayan Calendar Apocalypse who think they just struck gold. I also vaguely remember the implication that the site would be cleaned up magically, but again, it's been a while and I might be making things up.
idk how I feel about Chichen Itza in that regard - it hasn't really been mentioned much beyond the vague warning of What Harry Is Willing To Do. Harry missed a year and can't exactly watch the news, so we have no idea how thousands of dead bodies appearing at an international monument played out with the authorities. Somewhere in the Dresden world, there's a cult of conspiracy theorists salivating over the 2012 Mayan Calendar Apocalypse who think they just struck gold. I also vaguely remember the implication that the site would be cleaned up magically, but again, it's been a while and I might be making things up.
I feel like Maggie's citizenry is moot point anyway, since the only way Forthill could have gotten any kind of paperwork for her in a timely manner would have been to just forge the hell out of it. International adoption laws and citizenry laws are just way too complicated for it to take anything less than months to get Maggie greenlit in even the best of circumstances. Plus, assuming Susan's name is even on the birth certificate (assuming there is a birth certificate - we literally have no idea under what circumstances Maggie was born), her goal in putting Maggie with a family was to hide her - and a paper trail with her name on it would have completely defeated the purpose. The smartest choice Susan could make in that situation would have been to forge a birth certificate with the adoptive parents' names on it.
And to further complicate things (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've read Changes), but wasn't Maggie's adoptive family violently murdered? And then the child missing from the murder scene shows up in the US a few days later with no records of crossing borders?
Forget social workers, all someone would have to do is shine a light on how Maggie even got to the US in the first place, and Harry would be under immediate investigation from the FBI, CIA, and any other agency that investigates international crimes - for murder, kidnapping, and human trafficking at the least.
The thing is, Harry isn't abusing his daughter in any way... So the city/county/state isn't going to come between a father and his biological daughter in that case, they have too many real cases of abuse to deal with in an already over burdened system. As it is, too many kids fall though those crack sometimes fatally. Maggie isn't living under unhealthy conditions, she is living in a secure compound, technically since she is living on embassy grounds she doesn't fall under jurisdiction
of the state in the first place, that is sovereign territory of the country it belongs to. Now is Svartalven Embassy officially recognized? In short there is no reason for the state to remove Maggie from the home of her father, and I am not sure they can if they wanted to.
... And to further complicate things (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've read Changes), but wasn't Maggie's adoptive family violently murdered? And then the child missing from the murder scene shows up in the US a few days later with no records of crossing borders? ...
... Forget social workers, all someone would have to do is shine a light on how Maggie even got to the US in the first place, and Harry would be under immediate investigation from the FBI, CIA, and any other agency that investigates international crimes - for murder, kidnapping, and human trafficking at the least.
... and I guess he has a police record or ten, but he’s not been convicted of anything that I can recall ...
I was pleased to see Harry call out Eb for leaving him in an orphanage.Me too.
I got a bad feeling about Eb's chances.Yep, we all do :'(
These efforts could only be a temporary inconvenience to Harry, at most. Still, a US District Court summons could undoubtedly be managed for a maximally-inconvenient-time for Harry... And anything that even looked like a threat to his custody would put him straight into stress/anxiety/rage (and thus increase the likelihood of mistakes (but also thus fuelling his magic, so... not their best move!)).
Harry qualified for jury duty. To be summoned and actually seated one has to be a registered voter. Not sure what the rules are for Illinois but if you have a record of felonies in a lot of places it is hard to get that right in the first place. Second of all any good lawyer would have looked into him before he was seated, most of that would have come out.
As I said in the very next post, I think the worst conviction he has is a "drunk & disorderly," AFAIK just a misdemeanor. However, given Whamp involvement in the Jury Duty short, it's unclear how much the Illinois process would actually have been properly followed...
But AFAIK, the topic at hand isn't "Harry's generic legal credibility," but whether someone could "tactically deploy" DCFS (or other gov't agencies) against Harry/Maggie (alleging abuse, illegal entry, etc)...
As I said in the very next post, I think the worst conviction he has is a "drunk & disorderly," AFAIK just a misdemeanor. However, given Whamp involvement in the Jury Duty short, it's unclear how much the Illinois process would actually have been properly followed...
But AFAIK, the topic at hand isn't "Harry's generic legal credibility," but whether someone could "tactically deploy" DCFS (or other gov't agencies) against Harry/Maggie (alleging abuse, illegal entry, etc)...
However Harry is living on embassy land, which means he and little Maggie are not in the jurisdiction of any law enforcement.Since when are the svartalves recognised as a nation by the US? Is there any treaty between the svartalves and the US or any other member of the UN?
However Harry is living on embassy land, which means he and little Maggie are not in the jurisdiction of any law enforcement.
Since when are the svartalves recognised as a nation by the US? Is there any treaty between the svartalves and the US or any other member of the UN?
Maybe not, but I bet it counts. But again, there is no evidence that Harry has abused little Maggie in any way. As far as endangerment goes, what law enforcement agency or welfare department is going to believe she is in danger from vampires, Outsiders, and warlocks? Can you imagine the reaction you'd get if you called? "Um I think you need to investigate the Dresden family, his little girl is real danger of getting killed by vampires.."
You think it is marked as a consulate for a real life nation?
Since when are the svartalves recognised as a nation by the US? Is there any treaty between the svartalves and the US or any other member of the UN?
You think it is marked as a consulate for a real life nation?
In lieu of consular status, though, I have to wonder: how WOULD the Svartalves (who are noted sticklers for formal protocols and "correctness") react when presented with a legal warrant/etc allowing mundane law-enforcement to legally enter the premises?
I kind of see them granting access... presuming that EVERY formality is correct, I kind of think they HAVE to...
That would provide a very-useful legal cover! But I doubt it -- Harry would surely know, and he never mentions it.
In lieu of consular status, though, I have to wonder: how WOULD the Svartalves (who are noted sticklers for formal protocols and "correctness") react when presented with a legal warrant/etc allowing mundane law-enforcement to legally enter the premises?
I kind of see them granting access... presuming that EVERY formality is correct, I kind of think they HAVE to...
Well even as awesome as Mouse is, she still needs a therapist. I hope she has one and it's just one of those details we don't see.
Yeah b/c he'd have more rights as a federal(?) service dog rather than as an emotional support animal.
Timing of Chapter 5 drop? O/U 1:30pm Pacific time?I'm not sure there will be a chapter 5 drop. Did you read that somewhere. I don't dare to hope.
And Eb is right, in that, Harry's existence is the cause of the deaths of his family and Susan.Not to start this up again, but I think Susan was destined for a bad end.
Maggie's parents citizenship doesn't matter in this case, as she wasn't living with them. Harry didn't even know she existed and I don't think he'd even be listed as the father on her birth certificate. He's only known her for about a year as well. I don't know how many, if any parental rights he'd have under the law.It doesn't matter that Harry isn't listed on a birth certificate or that he wasn't living with her. He has all the parental rights ... as soon as he proves he's her father. Maggie is an American by virtue of her parents citizenship ... as soon as Harry proves he's her father and does some paperwork. We don't actually know where Maggie was born, or if she was formally adopted by the Mendozas, or if all her paperwork was forgeries, so the dual citizenship question is up in the air for now.
@Dina: According to Google translate, apátridas is stateless in English. Makes sense. Probably from the same root word(s) as patriot, patriate, and repatriate. Social Security numbers were first issued on December 1, 1936, so Eb's original number, if he ever bothered to get one, would probably only show him as 150 or so. ;)
... I doubt Harry has a record for any convictions. Plenty of arrests, so he has a long rap sheet ...
"Convicted felons may not be eligible for jury service, depending upon the age and nature of the felony..."
I think Harry has a few misdemeanor convictions (but no felonies).
I think Harry has a few misdemeanor convictions (but no felonies).Every time he's arrested, "it's on principal" to quote FM. Weird stuff happens that, if not illegal, should be. Harry's arrested for it. They charge him with something they have no hard evidence for. It all goes away.