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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Tassyr on October 01, 2014, 09:55:35 AM

Title: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Tassyr on October 01, 2014, 09:55:35 AM
So, I'm new to the Dresdenverse (if that's even the right term.) Oh, I watched the show back when it was on and loved every moment of it. Then I recently got around to the books; I' tore through Storm Front, I'm almost done with Fool Moon.

I'm also an RPG junkie so I tracked down a copy of the book for -that- and went at it.
A few friends want me to GM for them as I have GM'd in the past and been relatively okay at it. There's just one tiny catch.

Just about everything I've done before is guns-and-tactics, military, modern or scifi stuff. This is -way- out of my league; I don't know how to do mystery or such. Is there a place I can go to find say, example sample campaigns/hooks? Or anything like that?
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Haru on October 01, 2014, 10:49:21 AM
Only a few short things, since I'm on my phone.
1. Relax. :)

2. Dresden Files and Fate is much more participatory than for example D&D. When you plant a clue to X, and your players get the idea it could lead to Y, they don't have to be wrong, it can mean that you toss out the old odea and run with the new. It's highly confusing in the beginning, but it is a lot of fun once you get used to developing the story with the players (as opposed to against the players, as is often the mindset in other games).

3. Mystery be damned. You can just as easily do a war scenario or anything else you might want in the Dresdenverse. If you are more comfortable with it, and your players enjoy it, set up the game you want to play together. A turf war between a gang of werewolfs versus a gang of changelings, for example. Or a dungeon crawl in the bad guys hideout. You could just gloss over all the mystery that might have happened before and go straight for the throat.

And once you are a bit more comfortable with the game, you can try out other things. Talk to your group about it, and let them help you set it up. There is no need for anyone, including the GM to know what actually happened in a Fate mystery. You could start with "You find a body", and don't know who did what, or even who the victim is. Gather ideas collectively and work towards the solution together.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Taran on October 01, 2014, 11:12:26 AM
@haru:   Pretty good for your phone.

I'm also posting from my phone so I'll be quick:  there are pre written adventures and while I've never tried them myself, I hear they're very good and an excellent way to get your feet wet.  I'm sure someone here can provide a link for you.  Someone?
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Haru on October 01, 2014, 11:19:57 AM
Quote from: Taran on October 01, 2014, 11:12:26 AM
@haru:   Pretty good for your phone.
You know me, once I start, I can't be stopped. ;)

The Casefiles:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?keywords=dresden+casefile&filters=0_0_0_0_40050&x=0&y=0&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=

Neutral Grounds is supposed to be very good, but I haven't actually played any of them.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Tassyr on October 01, 2014, 12:21:44 PM
Thanks for the advice, both of you.  :)
I'm reading those campaigns as soon as I get home. (yes, I am on a phone too.)
One thing that did occur might be starting on the middle of something relatively simple and building up from that... Mostly to get a feel for things. The only bit that worries me is that this isn't always the most take-charge group. (yay gm jitters.)
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Taran on October 01, 2014, 01:05:05 PM
Here's a few more suggestions:

- Read adventures and steal ideas.  The Play by Post section is a great place for that and is where I've picked up lots of hints/GM tools and techniques and adventure ideas.  It will help familiarize you with the mechanics.

Most of them are good but if you want to read ones that actually come to a conclusion, I'd read:

Enduring the Apocolypse (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22978.0.html) by Sanctaphrax and;
Cradle of Darkness (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28667.0.html) by Haru

Both are excellent and don't peeter out like most PbP's.  EDIT:  those stories have spoilers from the series, if you haven't read all the books yet.

Quote from: Tassyr on October 01, 2014, 12:21:44 PM
One thing that did occur might be starting on the middle of something relatively simple and building up from that... Mostly to get a feel for things.

That's a good idea.  One of the first adventures I ever did, to get players familiar with the system, was make some pre-generated characters and I ran a quick one-off scenario.  (this is pretty much what the Case Files do).  If you don't use a Case File, I'd go a step further and start them off in the middle of a combat.  Only tell them why they're fighting after the conflict is done.  :)  It's a good way to get them invested - and it's fun!

After that, I let them either keep the characters or start new ones.  After you've got the hang of it and If you're going to start a long-term campaign, don't skip City Creation - it's super important for getting characters invested. 

Quote
The only bit that worries me is that this isn't always the most take-charge group. (yay gm jitters.)

Compels!

That's what compels are for.  Each character has a set of Aspects/Catch Phrases, that you offer Fate Points to get them involved in the action and, generally, complicate their lives.

Your group will 'take charge' more if they've invested in the NPC's, locations and world, though. That's why I recommended City Creation.   Their character aspects will be more connected to the city.  You then compel those aspects to get your players into the action.

- Lastly, Read this board.

Lots of useful questions get asked and there's consensus on many issues.  Some issues have no consensus, but there's usually a variety of ways of dealing with the situation.  You'll get useful tips and find ways of dealing with problems that best suit your style.  It'll clear up many questions you may have.

Feel free to post any questions you may have as well.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: solbergb on October 01, 2014, 01:10:46 PM
All I did in my game is set up a situation and drop the PC's into the middle of it.  Granted this is a common approach of mine in many game systems, but in Fate it works better than most.

Wherever they go, whatever they do, that's what becomes important and interesting.   My current scene started because somebody made a telephone call, and I realized there was a very good chance the wrong people might be listening in.   Since it was a better story if the wrong people WERE listening in, interpreted what they heard based on their preconceptions, and took action, that became true as of that moment.

So for me, it is mostly knowing who exists in the world, what they care about (ie, the city, faces, themes, etc is your skeleton, but I at least need to think it out a bit more) and then imagining how, when PCs get on their radar, they'd react.   Between the PC's actions and NPC's disrupted status quo and their reactions, I can usually milk a pretty strong story arc even in a conventional game system, like Champions or D&D.  It's proving easier than usual to do "what's next" in Fate.  Check back in a few months and I'll tell you how strong the story arc ended up (play by post is slow) but so far we're having fun.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Tassyr on October 01, 2014, 03:40:19 PM
There, just got home. Yay night shift and lots of other stuff.
I think I MAY have the core of things though. My (admittly twisted) imagination threw this one at me at work.

What if, instead of offering -Dresden- a contract to help him, Marcone had offered it to someone like Victor Sells? And is starting to figure out -just- what can be accomplished at campaign's opening?

(Admittedly I'd be using original characters, but that's the premise my tired brain has.)
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 02, 2014, 01:34:55 AM
That could be interesting.

In the short term it'd probably work very well. Spellcasting is powerful, after all, especially against the clued-out. But I doubt it would last. Maybe the warlock betrays the mobster, maybe a Warden comes to town, maybe the warlock magically assassinates someone with faerie friends and the battle escalates. Or something. Point is it's an unstable situation.

The players get involved because it's their job (maybe one's a Warden or a cop) or because they're just do-gooders and they can tell something bad is going down.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Tassyr on October 02, 2014, 01:46:41 AM
I was planning it to be a relatively short-term thing for the first run, luckily, that might lead into some -serious- trouble later. You know, this is the first big problem that sets off a chain reaction type thing (Opens said mafia type's eyes to magic, brings some other bad stuff into town that's slinking around, trying to get little scraps of leftover power, and who KNOWS what an idiot warlock who's no idea what he/she's doing could let loose that might sit around like an undetected land mine...)

So far my PCs are considering a cop as you stated (Clued in), a do-gooder, a werewolf who's romantically attached to said do-gooder, and possibly a dresden-style PI. Among other ideas.

As for "assassination target with fairy friends," I was actually considering a relatively low level vampire target getting whacked and stirring up -that- hornet's nest.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 02, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Tassyr on October 02, 2014, 06:39:09 PM
Now I just have to figure how to make this all investigation-y. XD
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Haru on October 02, 2014, 07:14:49 PM
Be careful not to make it too investigationy, or you'll be there for days. ;)

For a plot hook, how about having the werewolf wake up next to a corpse that looks like it has been mauled by a werewolf? The cop is called, so you've got 3 characters tied in already. The cop calls in the PI, because he doesn't have enough supernatural knowledge to deal with this, and off you go.

Maybe the werewolf ran afoul of this mafia guy. Maybe the mafia guy wanted to hire the werewolf as supernatural muscle, and he declined. To punish him, the mafia guy is trying to frame Willy Wolf (holy crap, I just got Billy's name!)
Initial clues lead to the mafia run club downtown, that is secretly a feeding ground for White Court Vampires who try to feed on one of the group, which might or might not escalate, depending on how the players handle it.

Well, you should be knee-deep in plot right about then, there's a lot of ways you can go with this. Maybe the players want to help the WCV take over the club in return for their help to get at the mafia guy. Or they kill them all and go after the mafia guy themselves. And so forth. Don't plan too much, let the players dig their own graves.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Tassyr on October 03, 2014, 08:35:02 AM
Well this all got rendered moot. I'm down to a single player due to schedule/interest conflicts. x.x Thanks for the help anyway though, guys!
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Quantus on October 03, 2014, 01:48:39 PM
Still, while we're ont eh topic, there was a great article recently posted here that has some great advice on the differences between heavily narrative games like Fate/DFRPG and the more dice rules-oriented ones like DnD.  May not be immediately useful if your table fell apart but worth the read and may help next time you venture into that side of RPG's

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42985.msg2085064.html#msg2085064 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42985.msg2085064.html#msg2085064)
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Haru on October 03, 2014, 06:15:05 PM
Too bad. But maybe you can reschedule or find some other people. Best of luck.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 03, 2014, 07:47:57 PM
Quote from: Quantus on October 03, 2014, 01:48:39 PM
Still, while we're ont eh topic, there was a great article recently posted here that has some great advice on the differences between heavily narrative games like Fate/DFRPG and the more dice rules-oriented ones like DnD.  May not be immediately useful if your table fell apart but worth the read and may help next time you venture into that side of RPG's

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42985.msg2085064.html#msg2085064 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42985.msg2085064.html#msg2085064)

That's not a great article. It's an incredibly smug and silly article.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 02:33:37 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 03, 2014, 07:47:57 PM
That's not a great article. It's an incredibly smug and silly article.
Ill grant you Smug, and add Elitist to it, but it accurately describes the issues Ive had with many, many tables that cant or wont acknowledge the differences.

BTW, this was just added to the thread on the first article, a counter-argument recommended by the author of the first one.   
http://www.robjustice.net/writing/chess-was-never-meant-to-be-a-rpg-in-defense-of-game-balance/ (http://www.robjustice.net/writing/chess-was-never-meant-to-be-a-rpg-in-defense-of-game-balance/)
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 06, 2014, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 02:33:37 PM
...it accurately describes the issues Ive had with many, many tables that cant or wont acknowledge the differences.

What do you mean by that?

Quote from: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 02:33:37 PM
BTW, this was just added to the thread on the first article, a counter-argument recommended by the author of the first one.   
http://www.robjustice.net/writing/chess-was-never-meant-to-be-a-rpg-in-defense-of-game-balance/ (http://www.robjustice.net/writing/chess-was-never-meant-to-be-a-rpg-in-defense-of-game-balance/)

The counter-argument seems a lot more reasonable to me. But honestly, I don't think it addresses the biggest problems with the original article. Namely the self-contradictory incoherence of its whole argument, the ridiculous distinction between board games and RPGs, and the basic awfulness of telling other people that they're having fun the wrong way.
Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 08:02:15 PM
Tell you what, lets move this discussion to the thread about those acticles so we dont keep derailing Tassyr question thread:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42985.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42985.0.html)


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Title: Re: New GM in deep trouble.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 06, 2014, 09:32:28 PM
On second thought, this is headed nowhere good. Forget it.