The Sidhe haven't always been as they are now  That is, the current state of Summer and Winter Fae doesn't necessarily reflect how they used to be.

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To me, the word "reuniting" implies that the power was at one point united.

Ok I have a hard copy of ghost story so it took me ten minutes to find this quote so you better appreciate it.

There's more substantial evidence that the Sidhe were once united in text.

'Lot of interbreeding there,' Bob said. Back in the old, old, old days. Before the Sidhe Wars"
......
Even before my time, but I've heard all kinds of stories. The Daoine Sidhe, the Tuatha, the Fomor, the Tylwyth Teg, the Shen. Epic alliances, epic betrayals, epic battles, epic weddings, epic sex

The Shen are from Chinese Mythology by the way.

P.S. I searched for 40 minutes for a Bombshells excerpt that had Leansidhe's explanation of the Fomor to Molly, but pretty sure that confirms they used to be united.

The Sidhe were created by outside agents for a purpose.  (My spin on the below WoJ is that they already existed in some form, and were... appropriated and reshaped to purpose)

Agreed as evidenced by the fact that former Irish, Welsh and Scottish gods are now Fae. We also have evidence that Greek mythology was converted at least partially into Fae as well. Hecate, Bob's exclamation of Nymphs and Satyrs in Small Favor, the Centaur in Summer Knight.

Relevant mini-theory derived from the above 3 quotes:  Although the Summer and Winter Courts were probably already a dichotomy, taking up stewardship of the Guardianship of the Outer Gates and the associated terrible power and responsibility is probably the wedge that drove Mab and Titania apart such that Titania no longer can even speak with her sister, and probably instigating the creation of the two Knight mantles that were "meant to be divided." 

I Disagree partially and spin off my own theory. I think it's just that the Summer and Winter Ladies are supposed to be the emissaries between each others courts as evidenced by the fact that it was Lilly who was able to talk to Maeve she wouldn't be able to do that if it was against her purview to do so. The Summer and Winter Queens however are too proud, powerful, resentful of each other to ever be in their nature to speak to each other. It'd also be against nature the two high monarchs being in the same room the very essence of winter and summer each a Tropical Tornado and an Ice Age Blizzard. There'd be an explosion of some sort all that power together. At least not without one paying lip service to the other like Odin has to do as Kringle to Mab. Which neither Queen are willing to do. I agree that something caused resentment at the Battle of Hastings but I'm just not sure it was the Guardianship of the Outer Gates. At least that's not directly the cause of the resentment. I think it funner to think that Mab schemed or conspired to kill the Summer and Winter Queens at least Mab definitely profited from their deaths the last time a Starborn was running around. If Bob is to be believed and theirs also the theory that Winter Ladies always want to succeed their Queen.

So in conclusion, the above evidence seems to support these positions that together mean the two events were contemporary to each other:

• Our Mab is the one who took over at the gates
• "Hastings" is when the White Council obtained the Blackstaff, which is probably Mother Winter's walking stick and is probably "The last time things got awful in the wizard world."  That is, when Mab and Titania's predecessors died and they ascended.
• Mab's position as defender of the gates is what defines the purpose of Titania's power, and is the likely wedge responsible for Titania no longer speaking with her "since Hastings"

1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. Partially agreed.

Oh and does anyone know wher I can get an online copy of the Accelerated Rpg

Ok So am 540 pages in.

Bridget hasn't been useless, but she has put herself in more harm than good getting herself captured yet again, then again one could say it was necessary to find the Aurorans and Silkweavers hideout so all for the better I suppose.

Benedict lasted a hell of a long time with the poison in his blood.

It annoys me when there are great libraries in fiction that are created purely for the purpose of them being burnt down. I would have preferred it if had remained a resource which Gwendolyn and the Etherialist and even Grimm could return to study various subject of importance. Rather than just one important Index.

Though Miss Cavendish does certainly believe that there is something "In Heaven" that can be signalled or sent a message by burning the Library and the Wayist temple down.

The Builders mostly are referred to as having created Spirestone which is inflammable and for designing the spire.

Further thought on Grimm's Ex-Wife of the Mistshark it's the second time I've read a Steampunk book about a pirate captain whose ex-wife is a Pirate captain whose his enemy. The First being The Tales of the Ketty Jay. Is it a popular trope?

Just about to enjoy the major airship battle between the Predator and the Itasca and then I'll be done but wanted to report in first.

"Dont underestimate social prejudices and the depth of fear and/or self-loathing it can engender.  These things can manifest in all kinds of Ways.  Thomas is a reasonable comparison (other than the fact that thomas eats people).  Also, fwiw, we've only seen a very small cross-section of the society, the Warriorborn may well face more stigma in other habbles and other spires.  We've only seen 2 of the 236 inhabited habbles of the Spire, and nothing whatsoever of the others (beyond the one military group); and those two Habbles were trade centers and the most metropolitan of all the Habbles, get them in the Spire's equivalent of the hillbilly sticks and the life of a Warriorborn may well be a darker thing."

That's true Benedict is from one of the most powerful families of the Spire and a guardsmen so that could be stemming peoples initial disrespect and prejudice. We also know that there are many Warriorborn at the base of the Spire as Farmers and presumably the base of the Spire is the poorest being the furthest away from Trade and closest to the Surface.

True, and the same can be said for airships; they can fill any number of niches both military and mercantile.  Cats...not-so-much, and Preddy is far more cat-like to my mind.  I'm still not sure I buy it. If anything the Spirearch would have to play more into social niceties to convince people he was a harmless dandy. I like the character I just want a reasonable explanation for why he would behave such a way when the rest of society down to the lowest social class obeys some form of social etiquette. Was he fostered in a much more liberal Spire for instance. What made him disdain the very etiquette that gives him power in the first place.
Well, to be fair I think a lot of that act is how he interacts with lower-born folks, individually.  We've not seen him in the presence of anyone in the aristocracy yet, or anyone that puts a whole lot of emphasis on the social niceties and hierarchy.  The only exception is Gwen, and after how they met I think he's just personally enjoying messing with her, not letting her use titles, etc.  It is entirely possible that his manner will change drastically when in that sort of social situation.  All we've seen so far is how he deals with his Guard and hireling (and favored snack vendors).

True my bet is sooner or later we'll see him in a more formal setting having to glad hand the families or the admiralty possibly even in the next book at Olympia.

Is it stupid of me to secretly equate Olympia with Australia. I know the obvious connection is Greece but I can't help but think of green and gold and fur trimmings and Commodore Pine as more Aussie in nature than Greece. Ah well probably just a fantasy.

She's still playing audience surrogate to some extent, along with Bridget.  She's the one that doesnt actually know about much outside of crystals and the aristocracy, and so has to beat her ignorance against other characters for them to answer the questions that the reader will have.  Bridget does the same for matters of social interaction and such that Gwen should know.

True enough, bit like butters original purpose. Though both Butters and Gwen annoy me in the first book appearance, at least until later in the book. Butters mostly because I completely agreed with Thomas assessment of his character, until Butters proved himself that is. I remember liking Gwens clarity moment on my first read where Grimm says "She has seen the Mistmaw"

I think it comes down to a few things:  he hates being in the spires and dreams of a life free in the sky's, he hates the idea of belonging to or being accountable to anyone but himself, and he is "more than a littel full of pride."  Also, the initial offer was equivalent to trying to hire a decorated warrior to do menial physical labor, or a Ferrari to haul turnips.  That being said I think his more emotional reaction might actually be an extension of his apparent etheric connection to the ship itself; The Predator is just that: a predator, and to downgrade herself into a domesticated beast of burden, well Imagine a bunch of cats getting tied to a dog-sled...

You make some good points, but hey the right dog sled team could also be hunting dogs, guard dogs and war dogs. Dogsled teams were awesome they conquered the arctic and anarctic where man's great machinery couldn't.

I think he hates the fact that he's Warriorborn.  It's the sort of thing that will come up again and cause bigger problems before it goes away.

Yeah I noticed that and thought I had written it, but beyond stupid societal prejudicial issues there's no downside to being Warriorborn and every upside. So it's a stupid flaw. I mean maybe if the Warriorborn were obviously oppressed and suppressed, but beyond a little jealousy at their abilities and not being able to advance into high positions I haven't found any evidence of it.
 

hahaha, Ill forgive you saying that because you are only a few hundred pages into your re-read.  You are clearing forgetting certain events toward the end.

Probably

  :PI think it's fairly Victorian, which is literally defined as the reign of Queen Victoria. She'd face different challenges to a nation who's monarch is reaching the end of it's political supremacy than the spirearch would, so her relying more heavily on the socialite avenues of influence and power make sense for her, but the tactic of trying to convince everyone you are absent-minded and non-threatening while getting the real work done in the shadows makes just as much sense.  And I have to think that a King with a style like the Spirearch would only make the history books if he royally screwed up.  (no pun intended, but Ill take it )

I'm still not sure I buy it. If anything the Spirearch would have to play more into social niceties to convince people he was a harmless dandy. I like the character I just want a reasonable explanation for why he would behave such a way when the rest of society down to the lowest social class obeys some form of social etiquette. Was he fostered in a much more liberal Spire for instance. What made him disdain the very etiquette that gives him power in the first place.

Ok so I'm going to be using this thread as an update as I go along.

200 pages in and I'm appreciating the detail a lot more than I did the first time. It's a great introduction book to the spire and the systems of airships and Etherialist magic/engineering.

Thoughts on characters:
Gwen is annoying but useful.

Grimm is a great leader, not as much a dashing rouge as he'd like to believe himself to be and more than a little full of pride. I saw no logical reason as to why he needed to turn down the Spirearchs intial offer let alone be rude and disrespectful. Seems out of character with the rest of his interactions with other characters.

Benedict is a great guy only problem being he has no noticeable flaws. Perfect gentlemen, perfect physical specimen, martial artist, loyal, honourable, witty. He seems to be the only character that doesn't have a quirk beyond his stomach anyway.

Does anybody else just want to hug folly and let her know everything's going to be ok?

Bridget realistic character and I like her personality, but her only real usefulness is as a translator for Rowl. Hopefully she'll become more useful as the series progresses. Benedict deserves someone whose more than just a translator damsel in distress.

Creedy and the rest of the crew are useful and well used they serve their purpose.

Spirearch Addison is likeable, though has an unbelievable disdain for propriety which he needs to, for the audience to believe he's a good monarch particularly from an American perspective. There's just no evidence of a comparable monarch from the Renaissance to Victorian who didn't behave like sociatile niceities were fundamentally necessary in a monarch.

Looking forward to learning more about the other Spires including the Olympian Spire but also the Pikers, Atlanteans, and Nephesians. I like how the Atlanteans are dark skinned. Nephesians I'm assuming are a reference to Ephesians. Pikers based on their ritual scarring. Picts? Though they're more tattoos. Ritual scarring the only examples I can think of are tribal peoples in Africa and South America. Any ideas on who they may be based off? The only other thing is they have Beehive's and control the monopoly on honey and mead. Mead would suggest Norse roots wouldn't it?

Oh dude thanks for doing the dragons I wasn't expecting that thank you so much. I only meant them to be background sponsors, but thanks so much. I'm sorry I wasn't checking the thread. Sorry If I exhausted you with character requests.

But thanks

Dude! This is perfect thanks so much I love them! and ghost is right you nailed Charles Drake.

Sorry I didn't give you more detail about Blake, I think I can write in his aspects from here though, they're my favourite part.

Thanks again!

Ok so this is a long post and a bit of a large request I understand if you don't want to do them, but I'd be very grateful if you did.

These are idea's that I'm going to give another go but I'm curious to see your take, on any of them.

The Gentlemen Magician Thief-Remy le (something Cajun) Born in either 1910 or 1986 depending on the refresh level of the game.Has a Gypsy background (sorry if anyone's offended I mean gypsy to clarify it as the fictional trope rather than the ethnic culture(s) of Romani or Traveller which I acknowledge are subject to racism. Mean no offense).

If 1986 his mother was a Gypsy was a smuggler, cocaine for Medellin Cartel and guns for the IRA, mediocre talent who was able to travel through Ways not much else. If the RPG doesn't mind canon references, I like to make her one of the women sacrificed to Siriothrax. Father was a Cajun decended from the Fae/Dragon (two mantles similar to Kringle/Vadderung) Melusine (here's the wiki link had to go down a rabbit hole to find it again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melusine) who raised Remy in New Orleans till he was in his early teens when he went travelling with his gypsy family. Learnt some aspects of magic and actually became a street magician who believed in his magic so much he became an actual magician, used his skills to become a better thief. Melusine took a direct interest in Remy's training as a magician as his Faerie godmother, Remy's magic has always been street magician based because that was his first true belief. Illusions, magic cards with special properties, so heavy on the enchanted items, good with Ways and some talent with fortune telling and tarot. He's able to do thise with a primary element is Spirit anything that he believes requires Spirit to succeed, next he's good with Air then Water (I go more with PP definition of Air then the nerdy autism angle in YS) Fire then Earth as his weakest. Uses his talents for thievery, con artists and hustling right now just a street level hustler trying to avoid attention from the Council and other organisations so is a sorcerer. Uses illusion and cards to win card games, spirit and air to win pool games. Has a mean Force attack and fine control of air. refresh at 7. I like to leave him room to grow and see what happens naturally, but as he grows in skill he becomes a true Way master slightly below Margaret le Fey and Rashid, his cons, hustles and thievery grows too. Specialises in stealing from those who profit off of foreclosure, bankruptcy, large debts and other 'corporate bureaucratic bullshit', stealing back stolen art and artifacts from museums and private collections that were won by conquest and stolen from their countries. The Vatican, British Museum and several 'collectors' in Germany and Eastern Europe all have wanted posters for him. He also get's a svartalf magic staff with a magic crystal on one end, master's Bagua and for truely high games I like to make him the next Gatekeeper.
Aspects would be:
1.Something to do with hating Dragons for Siriothrax eating his mother as far as he knows. (This turns into a couple of plot twists later on)
2. A Gypsy Thief. His heritage both Cajun and Gypsy. Family story about looking out for himself first his family second and screw everyone else. Oh and his tendency to thieve, con and hustle.
3. Fae'd to Black (If you think of something better go for it). Taught by a Faerie Godmother and hates getting attention from powerful figures/organisations.

1910 is a lot darker and starts off at a higher refresh because he's been alive for a hundred years and a bit, I can go into detail if you like, which I'd appreciate the interest. But I'd like to start with the lower refresh and upgrade from their.

I've also got an idea for a William Wizard Archaeologist who is/becomes Dragon Knight/Emissary working for The Welsh Dragon a lesser dragon who is on the cusp of becoming a minor greater Dragon. Ddraig is so close! he's only got another 200 years or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Dragon. Emissary uses an ancient Damascus steel sword instead of a staff. Ddraig sends the Wizard to gather a larger hoard which is directly tied to his power level as well as eating other beings power Siriothrax snacked on minor talent to tide him over Ddraig likes to send William to slay monsters who guard treasure and eat their talent. So the more treasure and monsters William finds, slays and steals the more powerful he gets. (This would be more for a World Travelling game or a Treasure hunting game or a 1920s game. Which I've yet to find unfortunately. I'm making a request thread for them though in the recruitment section.)

Oh finally Charles Drake- A Drake (Dragonborn) can turn armoured scales on and off except for one weak spot a loose scale over a vital organ region in his case his neck so decapitations an option. Descended from either Sir Francis Drake and either Y Ddraig Goch or Melusine is his direct parent or grandparent. I've seen the resource directory and I think it's a good place to start but I'd like to know if you have any other suggestions, maybe take in both dragons histories see if they have and special abilities passed on. Melusine might have shapeshifting abilitie so long as their serpent based and Ddraig could be connected to Avalon which one recent rp has as a Wyldfae Court.

Keep in mind Ddraig could be in decline since he hitched his star to the glory of the British Empire which has been in decline. Though in Dragon years it's only been a short time, so he's calling it 'a bit of a rut'.

If you wanted to stat Melusine and Ddraig too I'd be extremely grateful.