ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: dspringer1 on September 11, 2017, 11:31:58 PM
-
The fellowship was described in Changes as a organization that recruited from the supernatural renegades/loners/refugees - language not super dissimilar from what was used to describe the Formor. Certainly the two groups are different organizations. But it is possible that there was regular contact between the two organizations, perhaps even shared operations and/or occasional cooperation.
Normally this would be a non-issue, but the Formor are clearly in the enemy camp right now. I can totally see a book where Dresden needs to get into one of the Formor aquatic cities and rescue someone and/or free a bunch of prisoners and/or disrupt something important. Information in that scenario would be of vital importance. Dresden can track down a former member of the fellowship for that info. The fellowship was not, after all, entirely made up of half vampires. They had other supernatural members who are probably still around. Not sure of this individual would hate Dresden or love him (or probably both) for what happened in Changes. But it could make a very good and tension filled story.
-
The fomor are likely those that I braced their inhuman natures, while those in the fellowship embraced their humanity. The fellowship are likely filled with scions, while the fomor getting dusting supernatural races.
-
While their basic descriptions are similar, I don't think they actually have any cross-over. It seems to me that the primary purpose of the Fellowship was to fight the Vampires (reds only?). While the Fomor have been moving behind the scenes for a long time and only now (to Harry's view) have come into the light.
-
The fellowship were likely involved in the rcv due to the sheer number of Demi rcv out there. Other half breeds were likely created via breeding. Scions are likely the most common form of half breeds, usually it is just mortal or supernatural, with no in between,
-
I wonder if Changlings count in that.
-
Both the fellowship and the Formor recruited heavily from outcasts. example - Hanah asher was recruited by fellowship. Just saying that there are likely to be connections (personal or organizational). They recruit from the same pool of creatures and are both outcasts and they both mostly work outside of supernatural society. I would be shocked if some members of the fellowship did know well some members of the Formor
-
Comparing the Fomor and the Fellowship is like comparing horses and elephants. They both have four legs, big ears and long noses. But they are really different animals.
-
Even if your hypothesis is correct, any surviving members of the Fellowship might not be too happy to see Harry seeing as how in destroying the Red Court Harry also killed most members of the Fellowship. Hannah Ascher's anger towards Harry might only be somewhat exaggerated compared to what non-denarian survivors of the Fellowship feel about Harry. Of course, some would be OK with what Harry did, but that doesn't necessarily translate into wanting to help Harry, especially for someone who got their life back and now wants nothing to do with the magical world.
-
Even if your hypothesis is correct, any surviving members of the Fellowship might not be too happy to see Harry seeing as how in destroying the Red Court Harry also killed most members of the Fellowship.
Agree that surviving fellowship members are almost certainly young and/or not half vamps. They are unlikely to be the ones so dedicated the cause that they willingly except the deaths of their friends. That said, most of the fellowship was killed by the Red Court and their leadership decapitated -- as stated by Martin to the Red King. If the survivors are aware of this, they may see Harry's actions more favorably as most of the survivors from near certain death. In any case, they are - at best - going to have mixed feelings about Harry's actions. However, I think that just would make the story more interesting if Harry must recruit such reluctant help.
Comparing the Fomor and the Fellowship is like comparing horses and elephants. They both have four legs, big ears and long noses. But they are really different animals.
Not sure they were that different. The books implied that the fellowship were into all sorts of illegal (but unstated) activities to raise money and clearly operated in a manner similar to terrorists (bombings, etc). It is likely they smuggled drugs, bombed, assassinated and did other unpleasant things. These were not knights of the cross. Having contacts with the Formor seems quite reasonable/likely to me given this context.
-
Not sure they were that different. The books implied that the fellowship were into all sorts of illegal (but unstated) activities to raise money and clearly operated in a manner similar to terrorists (bombings, etc). It is likely they smuggled drugs, bombed, assassinated and did other unpleasant things. These were not knights of the cross. Having contacts with the Formor seems quite reasonable/likely to me given this context.
I like to think of them as the CIS as opposed to the KGB. They both really do the same things, but the CIA are OUR bad guys.
-
Changelings are a form of scion, or half breed.
I wonder how many of the accords have some kind of half breed associated with them. Technically the Wcv always seemed to me to be a breed of half breeds. I generally think that most of the fellowship are made of those not linked to the accords.
-
"Recruited" is relative here. If you are referring to the events of Aftermath, the Fomor aren't so much recruiting as enslaving. If instead you're referring to how the Fomor are made up of a smattering of lesser supernatural races, that's at least more analogous. But the pool they're drawing from seems to be more of the Nevernever variety than the mortal realm.
-
I always thought that for some reason the ghouls and BCV would be ideal potential members of the fomor.
-
There seem to be plenty of ghouls around, but I'd certainly agree that the BCV and Fomor would make sense as allies; the supernatural nations which have entered decline.
-
They are unlikely to be the ones so dedicated the cause that they willingly except the deaths of their friends. That said, most of the fellowship was killed by the Red Court and their leadership decapitated -- as stated by Martin to the Red King.
Are we actually sure Martin really got the rest of the Fellowship killed? He was fully intending to be dead via his triple agent plot within about five minutes of revealing himself as a supposed double agent. Might he not just have misdirected the assassins and lied to the king that they'd accomplished their tasks?
-
Are we actually sure Martin really got the rest of the Fellowship killed? He was fully intending to be dead via his triple agent plot within about five minutes of revealing himself as a supposed double agent. Might he not just have misdirected the assassins and lied to the king that they'd accomplished their tasks?
Yeah, we don't know yet. Closest we have is what Hanna Asher said about the demise of the Fellowship.
-
I wonder how the fellowship was founded. There are two facts we know, it is a haven for half breeds and that they acted against the rcv in the war. Since it is apparently based upon a saint, that implies some kind of link, however tenuous to the church. So the church could potentially refund the fellowship.
-
Yeah, we don't know yet. Closest we have is what Hanna Asher said about the demise of the Fellowship.
I'm pretty sure that even pre-Lasciel, she would have wrecked the absolute shit out of any Red assassins that tried to kill her cell though, so that might have been something of a special case.
-
I kinda would see the rcv assassins targeting the Demi rcv of the fellowship, and that might have allowed the rest of the membership a chance to survive.
-
I'm pretty sure that even pre-Lasciel, she would have wrecked the absolute shit out of any Red assassins that tried to kill her cell though, so that might have been something of a special case.
I'll bet you are right. She did take out Wardens.
-
I wonder if the changeling scions are ever a part of the fellowship. Imagine of the scions of the supernatural world coming together forming a sort of pseudo court. It can't be safe in the supernatural world without the protection of a patron or established power. This pseudo court could become part of the emerging para net system.
-
I wonder if the changeling scions are ever a part of the fellowship. Imagine of the scions of the supernatural world coming together forming a sort of pseudo court. It can't be safe in the supernatural world without the protection of a patron or established power. This pseudo court could become part of the emerging para net system.
I suppose it could, but no reason why they would join the paranet any more than they'd join the Fellowship.
-
The scions similar to the talented practioners, they are straddling the line between the mortal and supernatural realm. They both could be seen as mortals marked by the supernatural. Full wizards are far more seperated from the mortal world.
-
The scions similar to the talented practioners, they are straddling the line between the mortal and supernatural realm. They both could be seen as mortals marked by the supernatural. Full wizards are far more seperated from the mortal world.
I would instead state it as follows. Scions are mortals who share some supernatural traits with their supernatural parent, but still retain the mortality of their other (human) parent. Some like half fey have the ability to become fully supernatural. Others are always going to be in that half state.
Kazimmoinuddin is correct that many are probably more comfortable with technology that a powerful wizard as few supernatural races have a problem using technology. However, I suspect many scions have other issues based on scion status such as unusual appearance, cravings, allergies, crazy relatives, etc. There is no source of power in the Dresden world that comes without liabilities.
-
If the para net really becomes a bridge between the supernatural and mortal realm, I can see scions being drawn to it. Simply because they are not truly of one world.
-
Not sure I see the paranet being such a bridge. After all, it has a very specific mission - magic using humans.
It could become an organization that offers protection to outcasts or other supernatural flavored groups, but there has been no evidence to date that it has done so. At best it has semi-allied itself with Marcone and the White court to defend itself vs the Formor. But that alliance is clearly opportunistic and temporary.
-
I wouldn't be surprised if the Paranet gets declared a terrorist organization, gang, or cult when the government inevitably becomes involved. For a vanilla mortal, it it would look pretty wacky from the outside.
-
Cult or crazy very likely. The whole "magic is not real" thing makes that designation very likely - plus many are probably a bit strange.
Terrorist or gang - not so likely. If magic is not real, they hardly seem dangerous. They are a mixture of people from all walks of society and tend to be led by old women (witches) or men (wizards) as these individuals have the most skill. Very few engage in illegal activities.
-
Cult or crazy very likely. The whole "magic is not real" thing makes that designation very likely - plus many are probably a bit strange.
Terrorist or gang - not so likely. If magic is not real, they hardly seem dangerous. They are a mixture of people from all walks of society and tend to be led by old women (witches) or men (wizards) as these individuals have the most skill. Very few engage in illegal activities.
Consider how it would look to an outsider; mysterious deaths and/or kidnappings occur, and activity among these people increase. It seems like they speak in code to someone who isn't clued in. "We had another ghoul attack," for example; how would someone gathering intelligence interpret that? To some, things might look like a territorial or criminal interest dispute. Then they call in help from people like Dresden, who is definitely on several terror watchlists by this point...
While they don't have direct evidence of criminal wrongdoing against the organization, suspicion is likely super high. I could see a Mulder or two examining the Paranet as a massive enterprise. But, you know, with people like Tilly having some kind of understanding, I doubt we'd see some kind of crackdown from uncorrupted sources.
-
I'm not so sure they'd be designated as a terrorist organization, until they do something magical. Until then they'd probably only be considered a watched group.
-
They could hide themselves by pretending to be those that go to Renaissance fairs and other such reenactments.
-
Oh, that would be cool.
-
Consider how it would look to an outsider; mysterious deaths and/or kidnappings occur, and activity among these people increase. It seems like they speak in code to someone who isn't clued in. "We had another ghoul attack," for example; how would someone gathering intelligence interpret that? To some, things might look like a territorial or criminal interest dispute. Then they call in help from people like Dresden, who is definitely on several terror watchlists by this point...
There are thousands of people who die each year in car accidents who gather together in groups, engage in strange dialoged and code words and have a massive social network of semi-cryptic communication. Is this a conspiracy against some secret society or a coincidence. If I said the group were football fans and the accidents were just random chance. If you get millions of fans, statistically several thousand would die in car accidents. It is not a conspiracy.
My point is that the police agencies would have to
a) recognize that that paraneters are some kind of international organization with a specific agenda
b) recognize that all these disappearances of various marginal members of society are connected and not just a random spike in crime.
c) recognize that the paranet is the connection point -- despite the fact that I suspect "most" of the kidnapped are not paranetters. I suspect only a fraction of the gifted belong the paranet as active paranet participation requires a high degree of passion to overcome inertia/business of life.
d) recognize that there is something different about paranetters that makes them a target (ie - magic).
So if someone connects A, B, C together, they can see a pattern. Even if they do see the pattern, they will not understand/accept it as causation unless they know D. Then they must convince their peers and superiors it is important when they those same superiors will almost certainly not accept D.
It is certainly possible given the scale of kidnappings the Formor have conducted. But it is still not likely and almost certainly not something accepted wildly except maybe by the government magical agency which has the advantage of already knowing C and D.
-
There are thousands of people who die each year in car accidents who gather together in groups, engage in strange dialoged and code words and have a massive social network of semi-cryptic communication. Is this a conspiracy against some secret society or a coincidence. If I said the group were football fans and the accidents were just random chance. If you get millions of fans, statistically several thousand would die in car accidents. It is not a conspiracy.
My point is that the police agencies would have to
a) recognize that that paraneters are some kind of international organization with a specific agenda
b) recognize that all these disappearances of various marginal members of society are connected and not just a random spike in crime.
c) recognize that the paranet is the connection point -- despite the fact that I suspect "most" of the kidnapped are not paranetters. I suspect only a fraction of the gifted belong the paranet as active paranet participation requires a high degree of passion to overcome inertia/business of life.
d) recognize that there is something different about paranetters that makes them a target (ie - magic).
So if someone connects A, B, C together, they can see a pattern. Even if they do see the pattern, they will not understand/accept it as causation unless they know D. Then they must convince their peers and superiors it is important when they those same superiors will almost certainly not accept D.
It is certainly possible given the scale of kidnappings the Formor have conducted. But it is still not likely and almost certainly not something accepted wildly except maybe by the government magical agency which has the advantage of already knowing C and D.
It's not so much car accidents and football fans, it's disappearances and season ticket holders, if that makes sense. They'd have to recognize the pattern, sure, but there is a pattern. I'm going to disagree with you on the following points:
A. I don't think that they need to recognize paranetters as having a specific group agenda, just membership.
B. Recognizing that they are part of the Paranet is what would indicate that they are connected.
C. I can't disagree with that, because there isn't enough about the way the Paranet is organized to dispute it. I would say that they don't necessarily have to be active members (as in going to meetings) to be part of the organization. Most of the minor talents can use computers and cell phones, assuming they're on the level of Ordo members, so I'm further assuming that a chunk of the organization is digital.
D. They don't need to know that there's something special about the Paranetters, only that they're being targeted or involved in some way.
My point is mostly that there's a significant connection between these people, and the FBI actively looks for those types of patterns. If disappearing people were members of or connected to members of the New England Ornithology Society, you bet they'd have the rest of them under surveillance.
-
Agree with you. They can certainly see Paraneters as the target of some group and all the pieces are in place for that determination.
My point was that all that criteria would have to be in place if the FBI (for example) would consider Paraneters a terrorist organization or secret society. It is the difference between seeing Paraneters as victims vs seeing them as players.
-
A lot of the paranet is currently focused on self defence and protection. So this might raise some concerns if they seem too aggressive or violent.