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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Lamech on August 19, 2012, 11:37:20 PM

Title: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Lamech on August 19, 2012, 11:37:20 PM
What's up with true love on the Wampire template being +0. That would imply that only a couple people have twue wuv, and that next to no one knows about the catch? I would have thought that at the very least Harry explained the Catch to Paranet. At the very least a few people would be able to find it in obscure texts of lore such as the Harry Dresden Role Playing Game, or similar tomes.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 12:07:33 AM
The appropriate cost of the True Emotion Catches is something of a hotly debated topic on these boards.



A few points that might support it's +0 value:

True Emotion is difficult to maintain for significant durations (the largest contributor to the duration of Harry's protection by way of True Love was his horrible facility with women preventing him from having an opportunity to 'get back on the horse'), so even if a substantial portion of humanity experiences it at some point in their lives, only a small portion would have experienced it recently enough to be protected by it

True Emotion (and particularly non-violent emotion) is incredibly difficult to weaponize (making this Catch more useful as a source of Compels than as a way of bypassing any Toughness powers, and Compels are cost-neutral)

True Emotion is even more incredibly difficult to verify (without the involvement of an entity for whom it serves as a Catch) than it is to weaponize, so not only do you have to discover that your target is vulnerable to True Love, but you also have to discover which of those decades-old bands of gold alloy (or whatever) actually serves as a symbol of True Love
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on August 20, 2012, 12:14:20 AM
In the context of the universe, only Bob and the White Court seemed to know the catch or really how the Whampires worked.  That is, it requires personally knowing a WCV.  Remember, in the novels, Harry is very close with the WCVs and his intimate level of knowledge is rather rare amongst other wizards.  I don't think it's something you can just go look up.  I know this book is technically cannon, but I don't treat it as such in my game.  Too meta.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Lamech on August 20, 2012, 12:18:50 AM
Quote from: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 12:07:33 AM
The appropriate cost of the True Emotion Catches is something of a hotly debated topic on these boards.



A few points that might support it's +0 value:

True Emotion is difficult to maintain for significant durations (the largest contributor to the duration of Harry's protection by way of True Love was his horrible facility with women preventing him from having an opportunity to 'get back on the horse'), so even if a substantial portion of humanity experiences it at some point in their lives, only a small portion would have experienced it recently enough to be protected by it

True Emotion (and particularly non-violent emotion) is incredibly difficult to weaponize (making this Catch more useful as a source of Compels than as a way of bypassing any Toughness powers, and Compels are cost-neutral)

True Emotion is even more incredibly difficult to verify (without the involvement of an entity for whom it serves as a Catch) than it is to weaponize, so not only do you have to discover that your target is vulnerable to True Love, but you also have to discover which of those decades-old bands of gold alloy (or whatever) actually serves as a symbol of True Love
It completely and totally makes sense that True Love is one of those things that only a few people have access too. Thomas and Justine, and that one wedding ring that Laura burned herself on are the only examples, so three of them, just as rare as Swords of the Cross. But that doesn't cover the notability portion of it. I would be floored if Harry hadn't informed Paranet, and even more surprised if it wasn't learnable through dedicated and careful research. So it should qualify for a +1 or +2.
Quote from: InFerrumVeritas
In the context of the universe, only Bob and the White Court seemed to know the catch or really how the Whampires worked.  That is, it requires personally knowing a WCV.  Remember, in the novels, Harry is very close with the WCVs and his intimate level of knowledge is rather rare amongst other wizards.  I don't think it's something you can just go look up.  I know this book is technically cannon, but I don't treat it as such in my game.  Too meta.
I think one of the Red Court new about it. (Short story.) And Harry has played a big role in Paranet so he should have distributed it to Paranet.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on August 20, 2012, 12:22:04 AM
I'm not sure how widely spread that Paranet information is.  We haven't see a huge number of examples on it.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Lamech on August 20, 2012, 12:18:50 AM
But that doesn't cover the notability portion of it. I would be floored if Harry hadn't informed Paranet, and even more surprised if it wasn't learnable through dedicated and careful research. So it should qualify for a +1 or +2.I think one of the Red Court new about it. (Short story.) And Harry has played a big role in Paranet so he should have distributed it to Paranet.

I don't think it's ever established that Harry provided any such information to the Paranet.
If such is true in your game, it might affect the appropriate costing of this Catch.
I say 'might' because of the last point in my prior post:

For successful (non-accidental) implementation of this Catch, not only will you have to work to identify the nature of the weakness in theoretical terms, but in practical ones as well (and separately).
It won't do you much good if you know that WCVs of House Raith are vulnerable to True Love if you can't figure out how to get your hands on a sympol of that Truth (or whether you actually have gotten your hands on one, for that matter)
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Lamech on August 20, 2012, 04:01:30 AM
Quote from: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 12:44:16 AM
For successful (non-accidental) implementation of this Catch, not only will you have to work to identify the nature of the weakness in theoretical terms, but in practical ones as well (and separately).
It won't do you much good if you know that WCVs of House Raith are vulnerable to True Love if you can't figure out how to get your hands on a sympol of that Truth (or whether you actually have gotten your hands on one, for that matter)
Ohh... this makes a lot of sense now. If the only test is zapping a WC vampire, then just because you in theory know that love zaps them doesn't have any practical value. 'K that makes sense then.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: THE_ANGRY_GAMER on August 20, 2012, 10:20:20 AM
I'd expect someone with an occultist (vampires) stunt to know it, though.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 11:16:35 AM
Quote from: THE_ANGRY_GAMER on August 20, 2012, 10:20:20 AM
I'd expect someone with an occultist (vampires) stunt to know it, though.

If their 'deeper specialty' happened to be White Court Vampires, sure, I'd definitely expect them to know that the House of Raith is vulnerable to True Love, as well as the vulnerabilities of most of the other meaningful Houses, likely even beyond the top three that we see in the novels.

For someone specializing in Vampires: Black Court, though, I would not expect that knowledge.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: THE_ANGRY_GAMER on August 20, 2012, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 11:16:35 AM
If their 'deeper specialty' happened to be White Court Vampires, sure, I'd definitely expect them to know that the House of Raith is vulnerable to True Love, as well as the vulnerabilities of most of the other meaningful Houses, likely even beyond the top three that we see in the novels.

For someone specializing in Vampires: Black Court, though, I would not expect that knowledge.

I'd allow the knowledge of Raith being susceptible to true love, since Occultists are supposed to know stuff that doesn't pertain to their specialty as well. And a Lore roll to uncover that knowledge would, of course, be allowable.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 11:38:10 AM
Allow, sure.  But not expect.
I'd allow it without the stunt, though.
And in any case, I'd require a roll, if not several (or a FP-fueled Declaration with significant justification).
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on August 20, 2012, 12:24:30 PM
Something else to consider:

When we see it in the novels, the only action that I could consider an attack is Justine on Thomas' cousin.  Everything else is a defensive action, likely a compel.  So that stress track is bypassed once that I can remember in the 10 novels that Thomas is in.  Maybe a bit more, but not much.  It really just prevents people from being fed upon.

My point is, the catch is almost never going to bypass the stress track or recovery.  It may be compel worthy very often, but not bypassing the powers it is supposed to give a rebate to. 
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: ways and means on August 20, 2012, 12:27:09 PM
By the raw rules of how catches are valued the white court vampire catch is defiantly not a 0 catch, as at the very least the WCV know their own catch and as there are probably over a 100 of them that already counts as a +1 for knowledge (a select few know the secret), and as we have seen in the novels stuff like wedding rings and symbols of affection count so even if we assume true love is incredibly rare there are bound to be dozens of such symbols floating about (wedding rings, engagement rings, children who were born of true love etc). 
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: THE_ANGRY_GAMER on August 20, 2012, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: ways and means on August 20, 2012, 12:27:09 PM
By the raw rules of how catches are valued the white court vampire catch is defiantly not a 0 catch, as at the very least the WCV know their own catch and as there are probably over a 100 of them that already counts as a +1 for knowledge (a select few know the secret), and as we have seen in the novels stuff like wedding rings and symbols of affection count so even if we assume true love is incredibly rare there are bound to be dozens of such symbols floating about (wedding rings, engagement rings, children who were born of true love etc).

I'd make it a +1, personally. Children born of True Love probably wouldn't count.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Tedronai on August 20, 2012, 06:13:58 PM
Quote from: ways and means on August 20, 2012, 12:27:09 PM
By the raw rules of how catches are valued the white court vampire catch is defiantly not a 0 catch
By your interpretation of RAW and understanding of their Catch, you mean.

This is obviously a contested claim.


Quote from: ways and means on August 20, 2012, 12:27:09 PM
and as we have seen in the novels stuff like wedding rings and symbols of affection count so even if we assume true love is incredibly rare there are bound to be dozens of such symbols floating about (wedding rings, engagement rings, children who were born of true love etc).

No, as we have seen in the novels (and pointed out by IFV), some symbols of affection (of which wedding rings are a relatively common example) will gain the resonance of the (incredibly rare) True Love with which they were given, suffice to provide justification for Compels against a Raith's High Concept.





Really, though, if someone wants to further explore this contentious issue, I believe there are at least a few threads in this forum's history where the arguments can be seen in all their torrid detail.
We're not going to miraculously come to a consencus on this thread after failing to do so on those threads that came before.  It's just not going to happen.  If any newer members wish to see the arguments, they can do so without us all having to get riled up again in a new incarnation of this eternal battle.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: ways and means on August 20, 2012, 07:28:48 PM
Raw rules state +1 for rare knowledge of catch +2 for wide knowledge of catch, +1 for rare marital, + 2 for easily available material. Now you can dicker on what counts as rare, extremely rare and common but that doesn't change the fact that following those guidelines does not lead to a 0 catch for WCV unless you are willing to state only 1 or 2 people know about the WC catch and that only 1 or 2 people have access to it.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: UmbraLux on August 20, 2012, 07:43:22 PM
Is either a stretch?  It's been a while but I thought Thomas had to explain it to Harry.  Not sure many outside the WCV community would know...else they'd be as rare as the Black Court.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Tarion on August 20, 2012, 09:39:59 PM
I think you can make an argument that it really is that rare.

Firstly, remember that not many people have access to true love.  Lots of people could have access to it, but it's not something you can find on demand.  Especially since looking for it probably makes it even harder to find (Since you're looking for it for profit, rather than out of love).

Secondly, weaponising it is bloody difficult.  Remember that in a person it only works on vampires who choose to feed on them (Or whose vampire side is in control).  You can be as truly loved as you want, but unless you have a token of that love, there's nothing you can do to force the catch on a vampire.  Slap Lara all you want, she's not going to blister. 

To actually weaponise it, you're going to need your true love to give you a weapon (or something you can improvise as a weapon) as a token of that love.  Which, again, probably won't work if they're doing it so in order to trigger the catch - It probably needs to be given out of love, not with deliberately weaponising it as the goal.  Otherwise it wouldn't be a "token of love".  Even then, just being given something by the one you love isn't enough, or Whites would blister on contact with Harry's coat, which actually Thomas wears.   

Thirdly, I seriously doubt it's well known outside of the WCV community (and I think it's reasonable to discount them for the purpose of calculating the catch's level of information - The fact that the vast, vast majority of people with knowledge to use the catch aren't capable of doing so really limits it's usefulness.  Thomas is the only White seen to show love, and he's the black sheep of the family).  Remember, Harry only finds out from Thomas, and I can't think of a single mention from the Council of that as their weakness.  Harry never says "Don't worry, I'm protected" to Luccio, or Ebeneezer, when they're worried about Thomas preying on him.  The WCV are masters of controlling information.  It's basically their business (Just ask Stoker and the Blacks). 
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Silverblaze on August 21, 2012, 01:10:38 AM
Quote from: Tarion on August 20, 2012, 09:39:59 PM
I think you can make an argument that it really is that rare.

Firstly, remember that not many people have access to true love.  Lots of people could have access to it, but it's not something you can find on demand.  Especially since looking for it probably makes it even harder to find (Since you're looking for it for profit, rather than out of love).

Secondly, weaponising it is bloody difficult.  Remember that in a person it only works on vampires who choose to feed on them (Or whose vampire side is in control).  You can be as truly loved as you want, but unless you have a token of that love, there's nothing you can do to force the catch on a vampire.  Slap Lara all you want, she's not going to blister. 

To actually weaponise it, you're going to need your true love to give you a weapon (or something you can improvise as a weapon) as a token of that love.  Which, again, probably won't work if they're doing it so in order to trigger the catch - It probably needs to be given out of love, not with deliberately weaponising it as the goal.  Otherwise it wouldn't be a "token of love".  Even then, just being given something by the one you love isn't enough, or Whites would blister on contact with Harry's coat, which actually Thomas wears.   

Thirdly, I seriously doubt it's well known outside of the WCV community (and I think it's reasonable to discount them for the purpose of calculating the catch's level of information - The fact that the vast, vast majority of people with knowledge to use the catch aren't capable of doing so really limits it's usefulness.  Thomas is the only White seen to show love, and he's the black sheep of the family).  Remember, Harry only finds out from Thomas, and I can't think of a single mention from the Council of that as their weakness.  Harry never says "Don't worry, I'm protected" to Luccio, or Ebeneezer, when they're worried about Thomas preying on him.  The WCV are masters of controlling information.  It's basically their business (Just ask Stoker and the Blacks).

I agree.

I can however offer another perspective that helps support this.

I'm a cynic.  That's what life does to you, or me in any case.  I still consider myself a hopeless romantic.  In many years i've never found anything close to what I'd consider the White Court catch.  I think it is that rare.

Look at the divorce rate.  How many people cheat?

 People don't fall in love anymore they fall in lust.  Then they fall out of lust and repeat the process.  I applaud the few who actually understand the term love and enjoy it in life.

Point is...I know hundreds of people, maybe thousands peripherally.  One couple had anything close to what I consider True Love.  Then they split because one died.

Then the question of how you weaponize it?

Narrative only more or less.  A knight given a token of affection by his love won't cut it.  Lets just say it was a lock of hair.  lets say he did tie it to his blade so it would always be with him.  Then...maybe it would count.  I still doubt it.

Where this conversation is leading us is to one point that makes people uncomfortable.

It is rare enough that very few people are ever that happy.  Now: It is your job as GM to explain to people in your gaming group what it is, how it works, and how common it is. 

Also, let's weaponize it and cheapen it!

I think it fits +0 as a symbol.  That it is rare and it is special.  How did Dresden and Thomas both find it?  They are characters of an author  it doesn't have to be fair that the good guys always eventually win... The author also ruins their lives all the time.   

Which brings up the uncomfortable fact that love hurts. (not a pun nor a weapon ;p)

So allow me to soften all of this with my standard disclaimer:  It is your game - do what you want.  Just don't expect hte forum to agree with you or come to anything resembling an agreement on True Emotions (love or otherwise) ; nor the rebate associated with it.


Though if I want to play devils advocate: which I always do...

Spoilered because it talks about the novels and is sort of a cause for debate.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: THE_ANGRY_GAMER on August 21, 2012, 01:24:35 AM
Quote from: Silverblaze on August 21, 2012, 01:10:38 AM
(click to show/hide)

As far as I understand it, the burning is due to the way significant portions of one's life force or soul are shared during sex, even more with True Love. If you have sex with someone else, their life force wipes away your love's.

Also, for Raiths, you must be loved back to get the protection. It has to be mutual. If either party is not in True Love with the other, then no protection. Since Justine's new, ahem, 'friend' is not in love with Justine, and Justine not in love with her, hte method should work.

Although, I'd love to see Harry walk into Thomas's apartment and find him with all-over burns because they didn't think things through  :P.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: tymire on August 21, 2012, 06:09:57 PM
Also remember that Justine is a bit crazy.  She doesn't think that sex has anything to do with love...

Past that Thomas works as hair dresser, and feeds at work.  You can easly infer if that is the case he couldn't do this if True Love was at all common.

It's one of the places where gameplay doesn't match up with what happens in the novels *shrug*.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Mr. Death on August 21, 2012, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: THE_ANGRY_GAMER on August 21, 2012, 01:24:35 AM
As far as I understand it, the burning is due to the way significant portions of one's life force or soul are shared during sex, even more with True Love. If you have sex with someone else, their life force wipes away your love's.

Also, for Raiths, you must be loved back to get the protection. It has to be mutual. If either party is not in True Love with the other, then no protection. Since Justine's new, ahem, 'friend' is not in love with Justine, and Justine not in love with her, hte method should work.

Although, I'd love to see Harry walk into Thomas's apartment and find him with all-over burns because they didn't think things through  :P.
What seems to matter there is whether the last person you slept with had true love with you. For whatever value "True Love" is, who you got down with last seems to be the "on/off switch" for the protection itself. Madeline mentions that she'd be free to feed on Justine if she has sex with someone else.

Quote from: tymire on August 21, 2012, 06:09:57 PM
Also remember that Justine is a bit crazy.  She doesn't think that sex has anything to do with love...
Um...yes, you can have sex without loving the other person at all. How is that "crazy"?
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Silverblaze on August 22, 2012, 02:24:34 AM
If she doesn't connect love to sex then shouldn't she still be in True Love with Thomas? 

Therefore it should hurt him.  It doesn't seem to.

I greatly dislike this loophole that was created.  Sadly, that appears to be canon --- then it should be even harder to hurt a WCV with their catch...making it more worthy of a +0.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Mr. Death on August 22, 2012, 03:05:31 AM
Quote from: Silverblaze on August 22, 2012, 02:24:34 AM
If she doesn't connect love to sex then shouldn't she still be in True Love with Thomas? 

Therefore it should hurt him.  It doesn't seem to.

I greatly dislike this loophole that was created.  Sadly, that appears to be canon --- then it should be even harder to hurt a WCV with their catch...making it more worthy of a +0.
The "loophole" was created three books ago.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Silverblaze on August 22, 2012, 12:22:31 PM
I thought that was because he actually moved on.


You aren't making me like the loophole anymore.  I feel the concept of it is cheapend dramatically now.

Ah well.  I don't have to like everything written. 
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Tarion on August 22, 2012, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: Silverblaze on August 22, 2012, 02:24:34 AM
If she doesn't connect love to sex then shouldn't she still be in True Love with Thomas? 

Therefore it should hurt him.  It doesn't seem to.

I greatly dislike this loophole that was created.  Sadly, that appears to be canon --- then it should be even harder to hurt a WCV with their catch...making it more worthy of a +0.
I don't think the books make the connection between True Love and sex in the same way that you do.  In Blood Rites (IIRC) Thomas is quite explicit that the reason True Love and sex make people toxic to the White Court is because sex is both a transformative, magically significant act, and an exchange of essence.  When that essence is of the one you "Truly Love", it mingles with your essence as a whole, essentially.  The last person you had sex with is the most significant influence on your essence (Although Bob does say that there are lots of other, more minor exchanges, such as hugging). 

So when Justine has sex with Mara, it mingles her energy with someone not touched by true love, essentially overwriting the influence on true love. 

Mr. Death, I think the "loop hole" is actually pretty well laid out in Blood Rites, when Thomas is clued in by the fact that Harry's last sexual partner was Susan.
Quote
"The last time you were with anyone, it was with Susan. You love each other. Her touch, her love is still upon you, and still protecting you...If there hasn't been anyone else, then it's still the strongest touch of another life on your own."
Clearly the implication there is that if there had been someone else, she wouldn't have been the strongest influence on him, and so he'd have been vulnerable. 
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: JDK002 on August 22, 2012, 03:48:36 PM
I tend to agree that it's pretty well laid out from a mechanical standpoint.  When people hear the term "true love" they get this notion of it being some intangible idea.

This loophole clearly says it's not the idea or feeling of true love itself that gives protection.  But the sharing of life energy with someone you're in love with and is in love with you. 
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Judanas on August 22, 2012, 04:38:05 PM
Quote from: THE_ANGRY_GAMER on August 20, 2012, 12:53:16 PM
Children born of True Love probably wouldn't count.

Not even if thrown?
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: JDK002 on August 22, 2012, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: Judanas on August 22, 2012, 04:38:05 PM
Not even if thrown?
especially not of thrown!  That would be child abuse and definitly not an act oftrue love. XD
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on August 22, 2012, 06:06:22 PM
Quote from: JDK002 on August 22, 2012, 04:51:13 PM
especially not of thrown!  That would be child abuse and definitly not an act oftrue love. XD

Tough Love is True Love.  Love Hurts. 

(Okay, not really.  Child abuse is a serious problem.)
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Chrono on August 22, 2012, 06:11:04 PM
A newborn child might qualify as True Innocence, which could counter a white court vampire of Greed or something similar. It may also buy you a favor with a summer sidhe to set the vampire on fairy fire...
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: tymire on August 22, 2012, 06:12:34 PM
{Quote from: tymire on Yesterday at 11:09:57 AM
Also remember that Justine is a bit crazy.  She doesn't think that sex has anything to do with love...
Um...yes, you can have sex without loving the other person at all. How is that "crazy"?[/quote]


Quote from: Tarion on August 22, 2012, 01:22:27 PM
So when Justine has sex with Mara, it mingles her energy with someone not touched by true love, essentially overwriting the influence on true love. 

Exactly.  What I mean is she can have sex with someone without it affecting her love of Thomas.  This wouldn't typically be the case.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Mr. Death on August 22, 2012, 06:19:25 PM
Quote from: tymire on August 22, 2012, 06:12:34 PM
Exactly.  What I mean is she can have sex with someone without it affecting her love of Thomas.  This wouldn't typically be the case.
Which doesn't matter. What matters is the physical mechanics, the sharing of life energy. This is exactly what Madeline was threatening Justine with in Turn Coat--that Madeline would drive Justine mad with lust until she couldn't stand it, send in a guy to schtupp her, and then eat. Even though Justine would still be in love with Thomas just as much as she always has been.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 22, 2012, 07:09:10 PM
Yo. (https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,24037.0.html)
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on August 22, 2012, 07:14:58 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on August 22, 2012, 07:09:10 PM
Yo. (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24037.0.html)

Spoilsport.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 22, 2012, 07:22:22 PM
Sorry.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Silverblaze on August 22, 2012, 08:50:32 PM
Ah ok.

 It isn't an intangible.  It's totally based on swapping life force and/or bodily fluids. 

I get it now.

Not sure how I feel about it, but I get it.

I have no idea how you weaponize that catch unless...(nah the thought in my head isn't suitable to the forums.)

Suffice it to say it would be a ranged "attack" .  :o

Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: Mr. Death on August 22, 2012, 09:05:52 PM
Quote from: Silverblaze on August 22, 2012, 08:50:32 PM
Ah ok.

 It isn't an intangible.  It's totally based on swapping life force and/or bodily fluids. 

I get it now.

Not sure how I feel about it, but I get it.

I have no idea how you weaponize that catch unless...(nah the thought in my head isn't suitable to the forums.)

Suffice it to say it would be a ranged "attack" .  :o
Probably through compels. Alternatively, maybe when Justine decks a WCV it hurts that much more.
Title: Re: Why is the true love catch +0?
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on August 23, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
Quote from: Silverblaze on August 22, 2012, 08:50:32 PM
Ah ok.

 It isn't an intangible.  It's totally based on swapping life force and/or bodily fluids. 

I get it now.

Not sure how I feel about it, but I get it.

I have no idea how you weaponize that catch unless...(nah the thought in my head isn't suitable to the forums.)

Suffice it to say it would be a ranged "attack" .  :o

It may not be melee, but I'd be pretty impressed if you could do it from one zone away.