Preface:
Small Favor is another of those books where something is going on in the background, and I've been trying to come up with a theory to explain it all. I've come up with something, but I don't feel it is quite as solid as what I have for Proven Guilty (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26853.msg1143979.html#msg1143979), but I still think it is worth sharing. As such, I am going to build up to the theory one block at a time, so that even if the full story is not perfect, at least the individual building blocks may encourages other to come up with their own insights.
Here goes (deep breath):
1) Is Mab being played, or is she the "player"?
We are told in Small Favor that the whole "Harry is predictable" explains how the Denarian's plan to capture the Archive isn't crazy. However, there still is a critical point missing -- they would have had to predict that Mab would:
a) Choose to rescue Marcone, and
b) Choose Harry as Emissary in this task.
Now, one could say that Harry would have investigated Marcone's abduction without Mab's intervention, but I'll deal with that chain of logic later on.
Instead, consider the notion of trying to get Mab to do what you want. Yes, she is predictable (i.e. no free will), but then so is that world-champion-chess-playing-computer-program. Sure, if you study the algorithms it uses you can predict what it might do at any given position, but lets see you beat it at a game of chess.... With Mab it is much worse. Not only do you need to be able to understand her thought-processes in an intimate manner, you also need access to every piece of information she uses to make those decisions - and she has *lots* of ways of gathering information.
Thus, if it's a choice between Mab being played, or Mab playing a game on someone else -- my money is on Mab. If you limit the choice to "Denarians playing Mab" or "Mab playing the Denarians", I certainly know who I'm betting on. The only way I could see Mab being played is if was someone like Titania or an Archangel playing on the other side. I personally believe Titania is working hand in hand with Mab, but that is a subject for a different post (see here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,31912.msg1383314.html#msg1383314) for my thoughts on that issue).
Two more points that can be read as supporting Mab:
a) Harry notes (end of chapter 7), that the first set of gruffs were sent by Titania hours before Marcone was attacked, and that this was in response to Mab declaring Harry to be her Emissary in this case. Note also that in this (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,11734.msg538824.html#msg538824) WoJ he says (emphasis mine):QuoteThe first are just the newer gruffs, those most recent from being Changelings. They attacked Harry simply because Mab declared that she had chosen him as her emissary.This essentially means that Mab made the first move.
b) At the Shedd, Harry realizes what is going on, flings Nicodemus into a wall and runs inside the descending uber-circle, but first has time to smash Namshiel with a soul-hand a couple of times. Nic has shown that he has pretty good powers of recuperation, and yet he doesn't make it inside the Pentagram on time. In fact, Tessa even comments about it. You'd think Nic could have made it back in time...
What I find further interesting is that Nic doesn't even try to run interference on the outside. I mean, you've got wounded Gard and Hendricks (whom they need to capture for torture purposes -- to convince Marcone to take up a coin), and even two juicy Knights. Sure, Nicodemus is a cautious fellow, but it didn't stop him from flying back to the train to kill attack Michael back in Death Masks.
To me this suggests that the conversation with Harry in the Shedd really shocked Nic to the core. All of a sudden, he realizes that something else is going on, and maybe he is being played somehow. Consequently, he quietly hedges his bets and exists the scene.
I realize this doesn't automatically mean that Mab is calling the shots (Nicodemus has also just realized that the Black Court has infiltrated his ranks), but...
On to the next point.
2) What advantage does Mab get by choosing Harry as Emissary?
Would Harry really have gone and tried to save Marcone if Mab hadn't chosen him to be Emissary (with the Archive being brought in, etc.)? If the answer is "yes", then why did she choose him in the first place? Having Harry as Emissary only adds on the apparent liability of causing Summer's goons to start chasing him, followed by the necessity of removing Fire from his arsenal of weapons.
Some thoughts:
a) Would Harry have been able to call in the Archive to arbitrate without the threat of Mab removing permission for the White Council to use the "ways"?
b) Would Harry have even moved to save Marcone if not coerced by Mab? The conversation he has with Thomas shows he might not have.
c) Even if Harry intended to investigate the building, note that he wasn't aware that Marcone was actually inside the building during the attack until Mab showed him in the ice-movie she made. He might not have moved quickly enough, maybe even stopped at Mrs. Demeter's "Marcone is busy" routine.
Then there is also this quote from the book that need to be resolved:QuoteI didn’t want to think too hard about that, and I didn’t want to openly agree with her, either. So instead I nodded at the patch of ground where the sculptures had been. “Who took Marcone?”
“I do not know. That is one reason I chose you, Emissary. You have a gift for finding what is lost.”
“If you want me to do this for you, I’m going to need to ask you some questions,” I said.
Mab glanced up, as if consulting the stars through the still-falling snow. “Time, time, time. Will there never be an end to it?” She shook her head. “Wizard child, the hour has nearly passed. I have duties upon which to attend-as do you. You should rise and leave this place immediately.”
The simple explanation here is that Mab really doesn't know who took Marcone, but I find it hard to believe that with all her information-gathering resources she couldn't figure it out something about the attackers.
Examples:
a) Usage of an uber-pentegram that Harry ultimately calculates would require an arch-angel to empower.
b) She could see inside the building the Marcone was hiding in, you'd think she'd be able to see the inside of the car he was taken in.
c) Smell of hellfire -- big giveaway.
Note also that when Harry wants to ask more questions, she brushes him off with the gruff threat (not that those gruff can pose any threat while Mab is standing right there).
Thing is, Mab cannot lie, so maybe she doesn't know exactly who took Marcone. I'll bet she has a darn good guess though.
-->
To me, the takeaway is that if we assume that Mab is the one calling the shots, then somehow, getting the Archive involved must be part of the plan.
3) The Hob attack
The Hob attack is another weird event. On the face of it, it seems like an attempt to abduct or kill the Archive, but in fact, I find it hard to believe that gang of Hobs would be a reasonable threat to her. This is after all a being that is at least as powerful as one of the Faerie Ladies (according to the underestimation of the Warden files), and we see her hold off a horde of Denarians without much trouble. Add to this Kincaid and Luccio, (and possibly also Harry and Michael - Mab must be keeping tabs on her Emissary), and using a bunch of Hobs for such an operation seems downright stupid -- which Mab is not. At the very last resort, Ivy could retreat into the Nevernever...
Thus, I suggest that if Mab really wanted to kill the Archive, she could (and would) have easily assembled a way more powerful force (e.g. sending Santa to abduct the child Archive would have been a cool twist), one that would have a better chance at overpowering the Archive and her protectors..
So if the Hob attack was not meant to kill the Archive, what was its purpose?
One possible answer is that all this is simply "warning shot" for the Archive. Sending a bunch of Hobs to attack her is essentially Mab's way of telling her "Someone is up to no good. Take extra precautions." One could even say that those clothes thrown around the aquarium to obscure Ivy's smell is a precuation taken by Kincaid as a direct result of this obscure warning.
4) The Shedd
I've already mentioned Nic's tardiness, but here's another interestingly shaped puzzle piece:
Uriel gives Harry access to Soulfire in this scene (presumably as a reward for resisting Lash), but we need to remember that the only reason he could intervene in this manner on the first place is because Hell had already intevened in the form of the uber-pentegram. In fact, if you take events in strict linear time, the Soulfire-hand takes place before the second uber-pentegram actually materializes, and so this intervention has to "counterbalance" the first pentegram (the one used to capture Marcone).
Basically it boils down to this: If Mab wants her future Knight to get access to soulfire, she needs to offer enough bait in front of the Denarians to entice them to break certain cosmic laws -- thus allowing Uriel to counterbalance them with the offer of Soulfire. Good enough motive for Mab to set all this up?
Another interesting point about the Shedd is that it seems that Harry actually messed up here by charging into the Circle. Consider that the uber-pentagram couldn't stay up that long; in our timeline it comes down maybe seconds after the Archive is abducted (remember also that Denarians express a worry onscreen that might not be able to find Ivy in time). If:
a) Harry had never realized Nic was stalling him.
b) Harry had not gotten up the nerve to charge into the Circle.
c) Harry had the sense to stay hidden longer and not take a cheap shot at Tessa.
d) Ivy didn't care about Harry enough to save him at the expense of her freedom --
Kincaid and Ivy might have been able to run out the time on the Circle and Ivy would never have been abducted. Once the Circle came down, it would have been a BAD DAY to be a Denarian...
Basically, Harry's good intentions -- i.e. his humanity messed up here.
5)The Island
There are a bunch of interesting things that happen on the Island - not the least of which is the encounter with "Eldest", but I'd like to focus on Harry's "Second Sight" starts coming on, the indication that the Island will be important to his future.
Take a look at this WoJ:QuoteHow strong is Demonreach compared to Mab, Nicodemus, and all the other antagonists Harry faces?
That’s depending on where you stand. Like literally your GPS coordinates. If you’re in the right spot, don’t mess with Demonreach, and if you’re not, who cares. He’s one of those situations. If you want to go out to that island and play, you better bring your A game, is the way it works out.
...It almost sounds like Demonreach could win an arm-wrestling contest with MAB if she ever came to visit.
Given that Harry has just found out that Demonreach will be important to his future, I think it makes sense that Demonreach also got some indication that Harry was an important figure in its future at the same time...
Demonreach as an ally (through her future Winter Knight) is certainly a plus for Mab.
EDIT:
Here's another interesting point: If the Denarian's original plan was only to abduct Marcone, they didn't really need to build that holding cell on the island. Thus, if one of Mab's original goals was to introduce Harry to Demonreach, dangling Archive-shaped bait in front of the Denarians is the perfect way do so. It is the only place in the area that would have the ley-line confluence to be able to build a cell to hold her for any long period of time. Under Mab's original plan, Ivy would have escaped being captured the Shedd, and then she and Harry would have traveled to the island to free Marcone.
"Mr. Dresden please meet Demonreach. Demonreach please meet Dresden."
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Let's put all these points together into some coherent narrative:
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1) Ever since the events of PG, Mab has been trying to gather allies, gain power against the BC, and get revenge on those who invaded her realm.
2) She knows that the Denarians have long been concocting a plan to abduct Marcone and give him a coin (maybe once he became a Freeholder?). The notion of capturing Ivy is not in their plans yet. So she makes her move.
3) Mab chooses Harry as emissary - hours before the actual attack takes place. Maybe just as Demeter tells them about the safe house. Using a super-pentegram is still not in the picture.
4) Now that Harry is emissary, the Denarians realize that they have a chance of bagging Ivy as well.
5) They hastly change their plans. The uber-pentegram is not strictly needed to capture someone like Marcone, but they decide to use it anyway - to test it out before using it on Ivy. It's a last minute change to the plan, but Nic feels the risk is worth prize.
6) Thus, in the initial parley with Harry (when Tessa offers him mantis-smex), the Denarians only "fake attack" (good acting there, sacrificing Akariel...). The real intention is to get Harry to call in mediation. Note that Tessa is very careful to mention the Accords a number of times -- all the more to plant the idea in Harry's head to call in the Archive.
7) Mab tries to warn the Archive that the Denarians are after her by sacrificing some troops. It's a simple "WARNING" sign from Mab. Kincaid and Ivy take extra pecautions (such as laying clothes everywhere). Unfortunatly, Kincaid neglects to pack claymore mines.
8 ) At the Shedd, Nic suddenly realizes that his plan is compromised. From this point on, he begins hedging his bets (staying back).
9) The fact that the Denarians took the bait and broke the rules testing the pentegram on Marcone, means that Uriel gets to give Harry access to soulfire. Mab dances a jig.
10) The attack on Ivy goes down, but instead of failing - with the Archive proceeding to pulverise the Denarians in retaliation (as Mab intended), Harry steps in and essentially messes everything up and Ivy gets taken. Bad for Mab, but...
11) Harry goes to the island to rescue Ivy, and in the process Demonreach notices him -- more potential power for Mab's future Knight.
12) The Archive gets rescued after having been abused, holding an even stronger grudge against the Denarians. Another ally for Mab in the fight against the Black Council.
13) Mab WINS.
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Final note: read this (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,11734.msg538824.html#msg538824) WoJ, see if it fits:QuoteThe thing is that Mab never really figures Dresden quite right. She never gets it right when she tries to predict what he will do. But Small Favor turned out really well for her.
Makes you think, doesn't it?
“Why?” I demanded. “Why did you want the Denarians stopped? Why send the hobs to kill the Archive? Why recruit me to save the Archive and Marcone in the event that the hobs failed?”
Mab paused, turned, casually showing off the gorgeous curves of her calves, and tilted her head at me. “Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition. That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted. And among the Fallen was one with much to answer for to me, personally, for its attack upon my home.”
“The Black Council attack on Arctis Tor,” I said. “One of them used Hellfire.”
“Mab showed me her snow-white teeth. “The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day. The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”
I frowned and thought of the silver hand that had batted the fallen angel and his master sorceries around as if he’d been a stuffed practice dummy. “Thorned Namshiel.”
Mab’s eyes flashed with sudden, cold fury and frost literally formed over every surface of the chapel, including upon my own eyelashes.
If you read carefully, Mab does not say that Nicodemus was the reason she acted. The "ennemy" (Nemesis) was.
The first are just the newer gruffs, those most recent from being Changelings. They attacked Harry simply because Mab declared that she had chosen him as her emissary.
She grimaced and began packing another couple inches of intestine back into her abdomen. “The Accords have been breached. A challenge must be lodged. An Emissary summoned. As a Warden”—she gasped for a moment, and then fumbled the glue into place—“you have the authority to call a challenge.”
“Yes. Another signatory of the Accords, just as Marcone is now. I have no authority to challenge their actions. But you do. You may be able to force them into the light, bring the pressure of all the members of the Accords against them.”The Accords are enforced by Mab and the signatories. Attacking Marcone was very smart, as Mab was too weak to enforce them, and the other signatories don't care about a random mortal:
“The Accords don’t mean anything if they aren’t enforced and supported,” I said. “In the long run, it’s in our own best interests to make sure they’re supported now, before a precedent is set and—”That part is pure genius. Mab wants to defend her accords, as they allow her to focus on Nemesis:
“Don’t bullshit me,” the captain of the Wardens snarled, a hint of an Italian accent creeping into her speech. “If we take formal action it could provoke a war—a war we simply cannot afford. We all know the Red Court is only catching its breath. We can ill afford the losses we’ve already taken, much less those we might assume in a new conflict.”
I made sure to keep my voice steady, grim. “Mab has contacted me personally. She has indicated that it is strongly in our own best interests to intervene.”
It wasn’t exactly a lie. I hadn’t ever specified who we meant. And with any luck the mention of Mab would keep Luccio’s attention completely. The only reason the Red Court hadn’t wiped us out in the years-long war was that Mab had given the Council right-of-way through the portions of the Nevernever under her control, allowing us wizards to stay as mobile as our opponents, who had considerably less difficulty employing mortal vehicles to maneuver its soldiery.
Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition. That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted.but she can't do it herself, so she uses the WC as cat's paw through Harry.
No, scratch that. Exactly the way they had for Marcone, I realized. The huge spell that had been used to tear apart the defenses of the crime lord’s panic room hadn’t simply been a way for the Denarians to secure the bait in this scheme. It had been a field test for their means to cut off the magical energy from a large area, and access to the Nevernever with it—and to imprison something big at the same time.
I didn’t blame him. Even among professionals this circle was impressive. Lots of luminous, glowing lines and swirls involved, and that always looks fantastic, especially at night. The gold and silver and precious stones didn’t hurt things, either. The light and music show being put on by the chimes and crystals added a wonderful little eerie edge to it all, especially given the grotesque art that framed the interior magical symbology. “This is some upper-tier stuff,” I said quietly. “It will be another century, maybe two, before I’m good enough to come close to this level of work. It’s delicate. One single thing a fraction of an inch out of place and the whole thing goes kablooie. It’s powerful. When you’re putting this together, if any one of a couple of dozen of the power flows slips for even an instant, the whole thing goes out of balance and could go up with enough force to blow the top off of this whole hillside. It took a freaking genius to put this together, Michael.”
The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.
“I find it unlikely that an attack of this magnitude could be anything but a deliberate attempt to abduct or assassinate me. Mab and Titania have involved themselves in this business,” the Archive said in a matter-of-fact tone. “Mister Dresden is currently Winter’s Emissary in this affair—and need I remind you that hobs are beholden to Winter—to Mab?”You note that most infected people tend to slander Mab, and so Nemesis tried to make the Archive doubt her.
I think I'll start a Mab Fan club. ;DEven with her hands tied, she pulls a major play from thin air. The Calvin and Hobbes book is a roundabout way of warning Harry that Maeve is sending hobs. I wonder if Maeve was hiding somewhere nearby and decided to scrap the kidnapping instead of going against everyone at once. She had to know that the hobs were at best a distraction for Ivy.
Such a freaking genius. And with style.
Even with her hands tied, she pulls a major play from thin air.
Building on Knnn, here's my explanation of the whole book.
Titania
Titania was just an idiot. She send (WOJ) her minions to counter Mab's minions, and kill the winter emissary, without looking at the greater picture.
Do we know that Ivy was not infected? I mean she did hint to Harry right way in Changes, breaking neutrality just a bit. Slowly being corrupted and granting Ivy ability to take active role in matters of great importance. (Going against her nature of staying neutral)
Do we know that Ivy was not infected? I mean she did hint to Harry right way in Changes, breaking neutrality just a bit. Slowly being corrupted and granting Ivy ability to take active role in matters of great importance. (Going against her nature of staying neutral)
That seemed more like Ivy rebelling against the Archive.
It's impossible to know. But they had her imprisoned for a short time and she helped Harry in Changes.
Not so much idiocy, but dysfunction. That comment in Cold Days about Titania and Mab not talking since before Hastings comes into play. They don't communicate AT ALL. And, I get the impression that Mab has finally realized the weakness and vulnerablity this creates and seeks to remedy it. Getting rid of Maeve because of her infection is one thing, but replacing her with a bundle of emotional nerves (Sarissa) seems to be an olive branch to Titania, or an invitation to open a dialogue. Instead, Sarissa ends up in Summer, and Molly is in the role. And, it's just as well due to her own emotional nature. Summer is all about emotion. Winter...pragmatism.Titania had cause to go after the murderer of her daughter (by Harry being emissary). this is before Eldest Gruff (or was it Elder Gruff) prevailed on her that it was necessary. She took the shot.
Do we know that Ivy was not infected? I mean she did hint to Harry right way in Changes, breaking neutrality just a bit. Slowly being corrupted and granting Ivy ability to take active role in matters of great importance. (Going against her nature of staying neutral)
That seemed more like Ivy rebelling against the Archive.
One other thing to remember about Mab: She only has so many resources. Most of them are committed to the fight at the Gates.
Here's the thing: they /couldn't/ have infected Ivy. If they did, the world would be SCREWED. Ivy can deseminate information about all the Old Ones ever written. She could make so many 7th Lawbreakers that the Council wouldn't know what to do with them. And of course, she could have killed Harry like /this/.
The Calvin and Hobbes book is a roundabout way of warning Harry that Maeve is sending hobs.
“Thanks,” I said. I dragged out the heavy plastic storage box. It was filled with books, most of them leather-bound, handwritten treatises on various supernatural topics. Except for one book that was a compilation of “Calvin and Hobbes” comic strips. How had that gotten in there?
I'm not really sure why she did that. Probably to tell him he was the winter emissary.I was thinking that Mab was trying to warn Harry. She can't move openly against an order that Maeve has made, but if she can move her own pieces behind the scenes...
I'm not as happy with the fact the Titania appears to do nothing. She's powerful enough that she should have a stake in the game, but I don't see how else she fits in.
Very nicely done.
My initial analysis always had a big problem because I didn't have any realistic candidate who would be a major challenge to Mab (i.e. you can play Harry, but you can't play Mab) in a verse-wide chess game. Nemesis fills this void very nicely.
I also like the notion of Maeve sending in the Hobs -- it works as a nice side gambit.
I'm not as happy with the fact the Titania appears to do nothing. She's powerful enough that she should have a stake in the game, but I don't see how else she fits in. One thing worth pointing out though. CD shows that Titania was very much aware of Nemesis. Her putting Lily and Fix under a mindlock (in PG and SmF) might very well her way of protecting them from being infected.
----
P.S.
I am also a very much a member of the Mab fan club!
Titania is forced to act against Winter's interest, no matter what that is.
That's a real possibility.
Even with her hands tied, she pulls a major play from thin air. The Calvin and Hobbes book is a roundabout way of warning Harry that Maeve is sending hobs. I wonder if Maeve was hiding somewhere nearby and decided to scrap the kidnapping instead of going against everyone at once. She had to know that the hobs were at best a distraction for Ivy.
*Joins Mab's Fan Club ;D
“You’re telling me that this is why Mab has her power? To . . . to protect the borders?” “To protect all of you from the Outsiders, mortal.” “Then why does Titania have hers?” I asked. “To protect all of you from Mab.” I swallowed. “Titania cannot match Mab’s forces, but she can drag Mab personally into oblivion with her— and Mab knows it. Titania is the check to her power, the balance.”
The way I'm reading this, Titania has an *obligation* to oppose Winter when it comes to any actions taken within our reality. It's as much her duty as guarding the Outer Gates are Mab's.
Nemesis's power to influence people is limited. It can't bend them into something totally opposite of what they were. From what we've seen of it so far, it removes some of your natural restrictions, gives you "free" will, and nudges you down roads where your desire or ambition is already leading, but common sense or the order of things keeps you from pursuing. I don't have the book on me, but Nemesis is cited in tons and tons of mortal cases of just this.
Aurora didn't become an evil Winter Fae. She wanted to do something fundamentally inline with her character: end suffering, out of kindness.
Maeve didn't become kind and gentle. She remained selfish and conniving - but Nemesis spurred that selfishness to madness.
Nemesis pushed Aurora as far as she could go.
Now what I think is notable is that Nemesis does this and pushes people toward evil ends, whatever their intentions.
...and a wizard by the name of Harry Dresden also has done the same thing to the shadows of Fallen angels, Marcone, and wildfae, but for noble ends.
Harry is the anti-Nemesis.
EDIT: !!!!!!
Harry himself does this - he does crazy things and exercises free will etc. to do good/noble things (and its contagious.) That's what made him special. The doll/nature spirirt he summoned - it knew about it. If you recall, it asked him WHY he lives the way he does, because the WHY was VERY VERY important.
Nemesis's power to influence people is limited. It can't bend them into something totally opposite of what they were. From what we've seen of it so far, it removes some of your natural restrictions, gives you "free" will, and nudges you down roads where your desire or ambition is already leading, but common sense or the order of things keeps you from pursuing.^^ This
^^ This
But...
Cat Sith, there was total "Borg" Like domination of the Cat Sith.
Others though, I entirely agree. Victor Sells all the way through to the porn star death cult, they were pursuing their own aims, but the infection allowed or spurred them on to taking the efforts to the extreme
From here, it seems the entire plot of TDF is a giant, decades-long game of chess between Mab and Nemesis, with Uriel on the side giving advice/subtle help. Jim Butcher is a F***ing genius.
- Mab's first action was not declaring Harry her emissary, but rather, extending winter for as long as she did (May, wasn't it?). It would suggest that either the construction of the entrapment circle in Demonreach took quite a bit of time and testing, or that she acted first. Which poses the question: why did she choose the particular time she did to declare him her emissary? At a guess, I would propose that it was intended to ensure that Harry wouldn't forego going to Michael for help.
Winter came early that year; it should have been a tip-off.
“If they were very close, I’d know it. They’re probably spread out in a loose ring, watching who comes and goes,” I said. “The gruffs don’t really want to kick my apartment door down—not yet, at any rate. They’d rather fight where there won’t be collateral damage. But I’ve got a feeling that they aren’t at their best in all this snow.”
Molly frowned. “You think Mab is influencing the weather for you?”
“Maybe the ongoing record snowfall is a coincidence,” I said. “But if so, it’s awfully convenient.”
- You know what's interesting? When Uriel gave Harry soulfire, it resulted in Thorned Namshiel being broken, making him unable to walk. I could be wrong, but I suspect that was specifically done so that Thorned Namshiel could not participate directly in Ivy's torture, and wouldn't be capable of infecting her with Nemesis.
*Joins Uriel Fan Club*
“The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day. The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”
You're making a small confusion with GS:
She didn't extend winter, she made it come sooner. So Nemesis acted first.
This is a remarkable piece of work. Well done indeed.
Question it raises for me, though; if Nemesis-through-Namshiel is working towards entrapping and infecting the Archive, what's Nemesis-through-Maeve's motive in sending in the hobs ? Crossed wires or variant motives among the Nemesis hosts seems to run counter to what we are told in CD about the nature of Outsiders.
One thing about SmF.. Mab forsaw much of it, part of what happens is Mab first introduces Harry and the island together. In CD, harry himself notes this ;)
You were real happy with certain sections of Cold Days, weren't you Ms Duck? :D
Titania
Titania was just an idiot. She sends (WOJ) her minions to counter Mab's minions, and kill the winter emissary, without looking at the big picture.
Two possible explanations (Thx GrandPanjandrum and wildfire393):
- due to a severe breakdown in communication (one millennium since their last conversation ), Titania could not see the big picture
- due to her very nature she had to respond to Mab. Yet her response still let Harry escape in the end (Fix gives him the idea about the leaf).
The whole thing with Titania and Summer in Small Favor just misses the mark for me. Titania is a mirror of Mab, she ought to be aware that the abduction of one party of the accords by another party of the accords is not something that can be allowed to happen without retaliation by any of them.
So not only does Summer fail to aid the efforts to punish the Denarians, she actively opposes those efforts and impedes them and nearly kills the one guy trying to set it right in the process.
But that's not what she's actually doing, I would contend.
Mab can't directly coerce Harry to do any particular task - she gave her word on that point in SK. Titania sending hunters after Harry is doing that coercion for Mab. As for the degree of danger she's actually putting Harry in; anybody looking at Harry's record prior to SmF will correctly conclude that lesser gruffs have no real chance to succeed against him - and Eldest clearly has not been given orders that lock him down to killing Harry rather than leading Harry to the loophole that saves him, which to my mind is clearly deliberate.
"Thank God she's not too arrogant or anything," Billy muttered. "It seems to me that Mab is going to be handed a huge advantage in this. Why didn't Aurora just work together with Mab?"
"It probably never occurred to her to try it that way. She's Summer. Mab is Winter. The two don't work together."
"Small favors," Billy said. "So what do we do to help?"
From Summer Knight (emphasis mine):
Clue?
So you're contending that Titania sent gruffs to menace Harry and the carpenters (with clear orders to kill and maim), to kill Harry with automatic weapons, forcing him to jump off a roof to get away, and to send a gigantic giant-sized gruff who very nearly killed him in multiple instances within their kerfuffle,
and then she continued to menace him by sending a Gruff who was a heavy hitter even after Ivy and Marcone had be rescued,
with the idea that the heavy hitter gruff would lure Harry into uncovering a loophole Harry had never considered previous to the conversation with the Eldest Gruff,
and Titania did all thise to make Harry do Mab's thing harder? (TWSS)
Just seems like the Rube Goldberg machine of plot devices.
Indeed I am.
I generally agree with you on this, but how do you explain the Kelpies on the way to the island?
with the idea that the heavy hitter gruff would lure Harry into uncovering a loophole Harry had never considered previous to the conversation with the Eldest GruffMay I remind you this conversation between Harry and Fix:
Fix nodded.
We didn’t speak for almost a minute.
Then I laid the shotgun down in the snow, nodded, and got back into Thomas’s truck. I gave the huge automatic back to my brother. Fix made no move toward the shotgun.
“Harry,” he said, as the truck started to pull out. His mouth twitched a few times before he blurted, “Remember the leaf Lily gave you.”
May I remind you this conversation between Harry and Fix:
And I don't see Tiny coming anywhere near killing Harry.
Indeed.
I would argue that Titania is following a pattern of sending her minions out on apparently hostile-to-Winter missions with the end result of helping Harry and Winter; Lily and Fix in PG also count here.
I would also argue that we see what happens when a Faerie Queen really wants someone not to act against their interest in Mab's treatment of Slate and infected!Lea. No loopholes there at all.
Why do you think that?
There's a whole world of difference difference between "I don't want you doing anything" and "I want you to still be active but don't want you to do a certain thing". What Mab did with Slate and Lea was the former, what Titania did with Fix and Lily was the latter.
May I remind you this conversation between Harry and Fix: (Fix made no move toward the shotgun.
“Harry,” he said, as the truck started to pull out. His mouth twitched a few times before he blurted, “Remember the leaf Lily gave you.”)
But they were using the leaf to track Harry. That's what Fix was talking about. Elder Gruff explicitly said that the favor guaranteed by the leaf wasn't in its self enough to grant Harry his life, so either Fix is crappy at helping people, or that was a whole 'nother thing.
Except that was what tipped Harry off to the fact that they were tracking him via the leaf, and gave him the idea of the the LC-Mister-Catnip trick.
Right, I'm 100% on board here. Fix warned Harry, against the spirit of the command given him, and informed him how to at least postpone his near-death experiences.
“Indeed,” he said. “You were made an Esquire of Summer, and granted a boon, but…” He shook his head. “A boon can be a matter of importance, but not one this grave. Thou canst not ask me to yield to thee in a matter of conflict between the Courts themselves.”
“I won’t,” I said. “But just so we’re clear. Once both of us have left this island, the matter is closed?”
...
<snip doughnut conversation>
...
He bowed his head in reply. “Understand, young wizard, I may not aid thee further.”
“You’re pushing the rules enough already,” I said dryly. “Believe me. I know how that is.”
Question it raises for me, though; if Nemesis-through-Namshiel is working towards entrapping and infecting the Archive, what's Nemesis-through-Maeve's motive in sending in the hobs ? Crossed wires or variant motives among the Nemesis hosts seems to run counter to what we are told in CD about the nature of Outsiders.
If you want the Archive to stop trusting Harry how would you do it? Nemesis/Maeve sends the Hobs right as Harry shows up and Harry is the winter emissary. Doesn't the Hob attack feel more like a mortal underestimating the Archive than Mab or Maeve underestimating her? Nevermind the other people there, there was no chance of that attack doing anything other than making the people there question Winter's motives. Heck maybe the reason Tiny showed up when he did was so that Harry wouldn't reach the archive at the inappropriate time?Ah, but Harry and Michael weren't there (at Union Station) to meet the Archive and escort. They were there to retrieve Gard's samples.
Winter creatures acting to help the coming darkness is an ongoing theme throughout several of the books and all of it has created is tension between Mab and potential allies. Which also makes me kind of wonder if the spiders in Turncoat were there on orders from Maeve as well helping the BC/Nemesis allies on the island.
And Maeve/Nemesis and or Titania knew that how?What makes you assume that they knew he was there in the first place?
I'm just saying agents of Summer and agents of Winter both show up in one place and you think its a coincidence?Of course not. But remember there was also a knight of the cross on site so forget coincidence. :)
I like Arjan's theory - it means that Nemesis has multiple plans going, and makes it seem like a credible opponent for Mab. Uriel (presumably) makes sure that Harry and Michael are there to take the hobs out - but there's one problem: Harry's been cut off from his blasting rod at this point - and I'm not sure whether Harry's pulled the Catnip Trick yet. If he hasn't then that's how the Gruffs tracking him, but if he hasn't, then how are they there?
A troll snatching a kid off a playground for a snack is very different then a troll under Mab's orders doing ANYTHING. Kid snatching is troll NATURE.
A troll snatching a kid off a playground for a snack is very different then a troll under Mab's orders doing ANYTHING. Kid snatching is troll NATURE. Directed violence against a specific opponent of the Winter Queen is an exertion of her will through a tool.This is a good point. According to Bob, both the Summer and Winter Knight's job is whacking people for their Queen(s).
Also, given what we've learned in CD, should we trust the job description of the Winter Knight we had up till now?
A troll snatching a kid off a playground for a snack is very different then a troll under Mab's orders doing ANYTHING. Kid snatching is troll NATURE. Directed violence against a specific opponent of the Winter Queen is an exertion of her will through a tool.Mab's comments in Changes at least strongly suggest the Hitman option. "You will destroy what I wish to destroy. Kill whosoever I wish you to kill." That doesn't mean that's the end all, be all of his role, though.
Also, given what we've learned in CD, should we trust the job description of the Winter Knight we had up till now?
I'm betting that Maeve's orders to the knights mostly centered around killing people... Since we know she hasn't been doing her proper job for a while from her "I will never again be your little hunting falcon" jab at Mab I think she'd been perverting the winter Lady and Winter Knight gig for a while know. Be interesting to see more of what the Winter Lady's true role is in helping to hold off Armageddon. Might have to wait a book or two though.I personally don't think Maeve was corrupted until after Summer Knight, and I took the "hunting falcon" comment as her getting folks killed per Mab's orders. The scene where Harry uses the Mantle to try to get Maeve also strongly suggests that death dealing is a big part of it.
Mab's comments in Changes at least strongly suggest the Hitman option. "You will destroy what I wish to destroy. Kill whosoever I wish you to kill." That doesn't mean that's the end all, be all of his role, though.I think Maeve was infected just after Lea because it seems to me the first thing an infected Lea would do. Just after great peril.
I personally don't think Maeve was corrupted until after Summer Knight, and I took the "hunting falcon" comment as her getting folks killed per Mab's orders. The scene where Harry uses the Mantle to try to get Maeve also strongly suggests that death dealing is a big part of it.