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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: b4utoo on December 30, 2020, 04:44:39 AM

Title: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: b4utoo on December 30, 2020, 04:44:39 AM
How can you not see a Twist like this coming. Malcolm died with a smile on his face. And Lara doesn't even know she did but we'll find out her father made her do it.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: The_Sibelis on December 30, 2020, 05:41:09 AM
He died of an apparent aneurysm... Anyone remember Lash threatening to give Harry an aneurysm? Yea...
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on December 30, 2020, 01:52:42 PM
He died of an apparent aneurysm... Anyone remember Lash threatening to give Harry an aneurysm? Yea...

"Apparent" isn't fact, it is speculation based on how something appears.  In other words there was no autopsy.  It would have described the damaged vessel and his death certificate would read he died of massive hemorrhage due to a ruptured aneurysm. Or a statement of fact because of Malcolm's known medical history, age, etc, we have no clue though because no one has seen his death certificate.  On the other hand it might be that an aneurysm is the ultimate cause of death for White Court Vamp victims.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: The_Sibelis on December 30, 2020, 02:12:21 PM
"Apparent" isn't fact, it is speculation based on how something appears.  In other words there was no autopsy.  It would have described the damaged vessel and his death certificate would read he died of massive hemorrhage due to a ruptured aneurysm. Or a statement of fact because of Malcolm's known medical history, age, etc, we have no clue though because no one has seen his death certificate.  On the other hand it might be that an aneurysm is the ultimate cause of death for White Court Vamp victims.
apparent was my words, not the books.. of course we don't know. We don't know if there was an autopsy either. But why would Wamps cause an aneurysm? More likely your ahhh unit would explode lol. And this is all speculation my dear, it's what we do here, no?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on December 30, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
apparent was my words, not the books.. of course we don't know. We don't know if there was an autopsy either. But why would Wamps cause an aneurysm? More likely your ahhh unit would explode lol. And this is all speculation my dear, it's what we do here, no?

Indeed, but if an aneurysm was listed as a cause of death, who is to say that isn't what causes the ultimate death of a WCV victim?  We need to ask Butters, he must of autopsied a WCV victim a time or two in his career.. What are the physical signs do death by excessive pleasure brought on by feeding leave?  Also if you didn't think such vampires existed in the first place, what would you put down?  A otherwise healthy person dies, no sign of physical illness, no presence of drugs or poison in blood, no physical trauma, but a reason has to be given.  I guess my point is Malcolm died in his sleep in a motel with his six year old son present.  One would think the state at the very least would have ordered an autopsy, this is routine when there is no known cause of death, and someone is found like he was.  This is to rule out a couple of things like suicide or even murder.  I smell cover up, the question then becomes who did the covering and why?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: The_Sibelis on December 30, 2020, 03:32:40 PM
Quote
who is to say that isn't what causes the ultimate death of a WCV victim?
the complete lack of correlation between WCV powers and aneurysms mostly(or build up of symptoms for such). Nobody bleeding out their nose in WK,  no mention of it being possible when Thomas almost kills Justine, ect. "When we rip the life force from someone it causes brain hemorrhages" In real life, we have people die mysteriously all the time, natural causes, ect. No reason to invent something for what would look like a natural mystery as apposed to supernatural. Covering up bite marks and drained corpses is more on the that line of thought.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on December 30, 2020, 04:04:27 PM
the complete lack of correlation between WCV powers and aneurysms mostly(or build up of symptoms for such). Nobody bleeding out their nose in WK,  no mention of it being possible when Thomas almost kills Justine, ect. "When we rip the life force from someone it causes brain hemorrhages" In real life, we have people die mysteriously all the time, natural causes, ect. No reason to invent something for what would look like a natural mystery as apposed to supernatural. Covering up bite marks and drained corpses is more on the that line of thought.

Yes, people do die of natural causes, however in the case of Malcolm, who was from out of town, most likely middle aged at best, that diagnosis wouldn't be put on his death certificate without evidence, known medical history etc.  There are no "bite marks or drained corpses" left behind when a WCV is done.   I don't know about your state, but in ours if someone like Malcolm is found dead of no apparent cause, no one knows him or his medical history, an autopsy is automatically done to rule out foul play or suicide.  Or this from a CNN story about death by natural causes..

Quote

However, in the case of a younger person with no history of a medical condition, “an autopsy becomes a much more critical part of the process. Young people don’t just die suddenly,” Fowler said.
   

That would be Malcolm, not saying that heart attack etc cannot be ruled out, but I'd think there would have been an autopsy. 

There isn't an answer as to what the physical findings are for a death by WCV.. 
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on December 30, 2020, 04:18:44 PM
Generally White Court Vampires give people orgasms rather than aneurysms- perhaps you have confused the two?

There were several teams looking out for Harry for different purposes.

1. Morgan to keep him safe on his word to Margaret.

 2. Ebeneezer  to ensure Harry was raised in the same way he raised Margaret i.e. away from his family to be adopted in as an apprentice should he show talent.

3. Whoever was in cahoots with Justin, and dissappeared Harry into the system.

Morgan had no reason to off Malcolm and wouldn’t as this would be a breach of the law.

Eb might have offed Malcolm, as Blackstaff he could do so with impunity, but Harry hadn’t shown any ability as yet. Still an outside possibility and a grim one for Harry.

Number 3 is the most likely and that I think is the Merlin, recent WOJ indicates that the Merlin has been trying to manipulate Harry for years. Justin was a trusted senior Warden, exactly the person the Merlin would go to if he didn’t trust Lucio or Morgan in respect of Harry. It would be apt that the Merlin is guilty of a deliberate premeditated breach of the first law in killing Malcom Dresden having hounded Harry for a breach in self defence. The Merlin strikes me as a hypocrite of the first order.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on December 30, 2020, 05:38:07 PM
Quote
Generally White Court Vampires give people orgasms rather than aneurysms- perhaps you have confused the two?

No confusion, aneurysms leave physical evidence when people die of them.  People do not die of orgasms generally, nor do orgasms leave physical evidence of why the person died, if they do.  It could be why Lord Raith was always so careful in the disposal of his victims?  A dead twenty something with no known health issues for whom a cause of death could be found would raise a lot of questions.
Quote
Number 3 is the most likely and that I think is the Merlin, recent WOJ indicates that the Merlin has been trying to manipulate Harry for years. Justin was a trusted senior Warden, exactly the person the Merlin would go to if he didn’t trust Lucio or Morgan in respect of Harry. It would be apt that the Merlin is guilty of a deliberate premeditated breach of the first law in killing Malcom Dresden having hounded Harry for a breach in self defence. The Merlin strikes me as a hypocrite of the first order.

Not saying that this is true, but it all screams cover up.  If Chauncy can be believed, he claimed that Malcolm was murdered.  The question then becomes by whom? Why? Finally, who is covering it up?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: forumghost on December 30, 2020, 05:48:47 PM
I can't see it being Lara tbh, simply because if Raith had tracked them down, he'd have had her kill the defenseless child Harry too.

My top suspect would probably be Justin (or more likely whoever was helping him, no way that Justin himself had the resources to hide Harry so thoroughly that both Morgan and Eb couldn't find any trace of him, mundane or magical).
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on December 30, 2020, 07:24:26 PM
It does make me think the Merlin and Peabody, using the power of bribery and paperwork to hide Harry, and Justin to pick him up.

The Raith’s could always find Harry by a tracking spell through Thomas Amulet, Eb didn’t have access to anything like that (Harry has tracked through a familial relationship but this was further generation removed). That convinces me no Raith involvement.

But yes there were three groups on the WC keeping an eye on the Young Harry, from everything we have seen.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: morriswalters on December 30, 2020, 07:37:21 PM
I believe the White Court just sucks the life out.  If I remember Butters looks at the corpses in White Knight and can't find a cause of death.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on December 30, 2020, 08:12:54 PM
I thought it was heavily implied that Lord Raith used an entropy curse just like he did in blood rites.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: BrainFireBob on December 30, 2020, 08:27:40 PM
I thought it was heavily implied that Lord Raith used an entropy curse just like he did in blood rites.

On Margaret. We know nothing of Malcolm, aside from at the moment of his death someone was ready to disappear Harry so thoroughly that the best of the Warden field agents- Morgan- couldn't find him 12 hours later.

I lean toward the Leanansidhe, myself, but the Merlin is possible, in an attempt to create a WC controlled starborn weapon- or, in other words, Harry wasn't being groomed as DuMorne's personal enforcer, but as a wizard-warrior against threats like Drakul, possibly because such preparation would fly in the face of the Laws and the volatile Blackstaff.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on December 30, 2020, 09:21:40 PM
On Margaret. We know nothing of Malcolm, aside from at the moment of his death someone was ready to disappear Harry so thoroughly that the best of the Warden field agents- Morgan- couldn't find him 12 hours later.

I lean toward the Leanansidhe, myself, but the Merlin is possible, in an attempt to create a WC controlled starborn weapon- or, in other words, Harry wasn't being groomed as DuMorne's personal enforcer, but as a wizard-warrior against threats like Drakul, possibly because such preparation would fly in the face of the Laws and the volatile Blackstaff.
Justin is a likely culprit. He is the only one with a strong motivation to kill the father and not the son and to make sure he can easily take Harry later as an orphan and make Harry thank him for it.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: The_Sibelis on December 31, 2020, 04:12:13 AM
I thought it was heavily implied that Lord Raith used an entropy curse just like he did in blood rites.
ahh yes, I like the way you worded that. It IS assumed, as Harry had been going up against Lord Raiths curse. But we know of another possible ally of hers who's pretty famous for his entropy curse.. Nicodemus.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: forumghost on December 31, 2020, 05:24:41 AM
ahh yes, I like the way you worded that. It IS assumed, as Harry had been going up against Lord Raiths curse. But we know of another possible ally of hers who's pretty famous for his entropy curse.. Nicodemus.

See while in some ways Nick isn't a bad candidate, (because he probably has the resources and knowledge to hide Harry even from someone like Eb), I feel like it doesn't fit because if Nick had gone after Malcolm, he'd probably have swooped in immediately and dropped a Coin on him.

An ignorant child Wizard would be a prime candidate for Nick to mold into one of his chief enforcers.

So yeah, it has to be someone that's capable of a subtle and near-untraceable Magical Assassination, and the resources and skills to conceal Harry absolutely from two major-league Wizards, both trying their Darndest to find him, but not enough to prevent Lea from tracking him.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on December 31, 2020, 07:12:32 AM
See while in some ways Nick isn't a bad candidate, (because he probably has the resources and knowledge to hide Harry even from someone like Eb), I feel like it doesn't fit because if Nick had gone after Malcolm, he'd probably have swooped in immediately and dropped a Coin on him.

An ignorant child Wizard would be a prime candidate for Nick to mold into one of his chief enforcers.

That makes a great deal of sense.  Plus, do you think anyone who Nicodemus killed died with a smile on their face?  Neither do I. 

So yeah, it has to be someone that's capable of a subtle and near-untraceable Magical Assassination, and the resources and skills to conceal Harry absolutely from two major-league Wizards, both trying their Darndest to find him, but not enough to prevent Lea from tracking him.

I think there are three characters that we know who could have killed Malcolm Dresden in a subtle and nearly untraceable manner.  Lara Raith is one, and the other two are Ebenezer McCoy and the Leanansidhe. 

Ebenezer has a license to kill from the White Council; and from how we saw him behave in Peace Talks, if Eb thought it was necessary to kill Malcolm in order to protect Harry, I have no doubt he would have done so.  However, at this point I have no specific evidence that he did so.  All I know with certainty is Ebenezer described Malcolm as, "A mortal, without powers, without influence, without resources. But a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen."  So that suggests that Ebenezer Soulgazed Malcolm, maybe.  That first sentence though, it describes someone who couldn't protect Harry.  It feeds my suspicion of Eb as a suspect, but it's hardly proof.

We've only seen the Leanansidhe kill by using extreme magical violence against some of the Lords of Outer Night, but I don't doubt that she could do subtle if she wanted to.  I think Lea might have wanted, or felt she needed to do so.  People have wondered how Harry was disappeared.  We know, or at least strongly suspect, that Lea was the women who occasionally visited Harry when he was in the system.  We know she agreed to a deal with Margaret LeFay to protect Harry.  I doubt that part of her deal was to look out for Malcolm.  Jim has stated that Margaret didn't make the best deal she could have.  As a personal note, Lea has always been my Number 1 suspect.  If Lea believed that the best way to keep her deal with Margaret was to off Malcolm, or look the other way while someone else killed Malcolm, I'm pretty sure she would have been OK with either of those two things.  Lea doesn't have a strong grasp of human morality, other than it exists and is often contradictory.  I won't be surprised if we eventually learn that Lea had a side deal going with Justine DuMorne.  It would have been quite convenient for Lea to allow Justin to train Harry.  All she had to do was wait for Justin's inevitable betrayal of Harry so she could sweep in and rescue Harry so she could bind him to her own purpose.  If you think about the conversation Lea had with Harry's disembodied spirit in Ghost Story, she knew an awful lot about Justin; specifically about his rotten character.  It seems to me that Lea must have had personal dealings with Justin to have formed such a strong opinion of him.

Lara Raith, hmmm.  Well, I suppose Harry might have been told an aneurism killed Malcolm, even if no actual cause of death was found.  Lord Raith could have sent Lara after Malcolm, but wouldn't the more logical target have been Margaret's Starborn son?  Wouldn't Lord Raith have figured that out?  Killing a vanilla mortal doesn't make much sense.  Also; if Harry was the ultimate target, sending a princess of the succubae to kill an infant is overkill in the extreme.  It works to get Malcolm out of the way, but if Lara did the deed, this would mean that someone else already took Harry and hid him; and in that case why waste time killing Malcolm Dresden?  There could be some missing piece that makes this scenario work, but I don't see it.

For now I'm leaning towards Lea as the guilty, or at least complicit, party with Ebenezer as my backup suspect.  Lara Raith is a distant third.  Then again, maybe they were all in it together! :P  I need to work out a scenario were all of our suspects; perhaps including Justin DuMorne, were involved in Malcolm Dresden's murder.  Something like the movie Blood Simple (great movie, if you haven't seen it), where four different characters do or say things that the other characters aren't aware of or misinterpret, that eventually leads to three killings by the end of the movie.             

Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: The_Sibelis on December 31, 2020, 07:45:35 AM
Seems to me your compounding nic killed Margret with nic killed them both. Which is certainly not what I said or meant..  margaret died from an entropy curse, Malcolm had an aneurysm.. the two are not mutually exclusive, though I presume, relative.
If Eb had killed Malcolm, then he would have been able to nab Harry directly. And if Leah had done it then the Harry vs Lea battle would not be in the air based on Harry maturing past it. I've already presented on why lara seems rather unlikely. It would have technically been Lord Raith, don't know why that makes Lara culpable anyway.
*Hell loosing Margret, likely from her falling for Malcolm, is motive for either though.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on December 31, 2020, 07:49:48 AM
Lea is unlikely because she is Sidhe and she needs a gateway to even hurt him. She also has no motive, it does not help her godson in any way.

Ebenezer has no motive either. The only ones with a clear motive are pappa Raith, who would have killed Harry as well, and Justin who can use magic to kill and Bob could have helped him.

Sure there re others like Nicodemus who could have pulled it off but do they have the motive to make it look like a natural death and leave Harry alive? At this moment as far as we know only Justin has both the motive and the capability.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: TheCuriousFan on December 31, 2020, 08:03:04 AM
Also Nic IIRC offered knowledge about who killed Malcolm if he took up the coin in DM, that seems like the kind of offer that'd backfire too easily if Nic was even vaguely involved in Malcolm's death so he was probably off burning orphanages somewhere else at the time.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on December 31, 2020, 12:28:28 PM
Also Nic IIRC offered knowledge about who killed Malcolm if he took up the coin in DM, that seems like the kind of offer that'd backfire too easily if Nic was even vaguely involved in Malcolm's death so he was probably off burning orphanages somewhere else at the time.

Nic would know because of Andruiel, but knowledge doesn't mean he did it.  Lasciel isn't the first to
offer Harry the information, so did Chauncy, but for a price and Harry wasn't taking the bait.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: morriswalters on December 31, 2020, 12:57:57 PM
Malcolm's death may have been part of Margaret's deal with Lea, even if she wasn't aware of it.  It could also be a player we don't connect with the death.  The only group who we know has reached in to the juvenile system is the BC, who do it to Molly in Proven Guilty. Apparently Margaret was a fellow traveler at a minimum.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on December 31, 2020, 01:31:04 PM
I think Justin could perfectly well kill Malcolm using magic and making it look like a natural death, he was a warden after all. And if not he had Bob to explain him exactly how. He also had a motive, with Malcolm alive Harry would stay with him and would not enter the system. Justin might have killed Elaines parent(s) as well just to get hold of her.

Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: forumghost on December 31, 2020, 01:55:17 PM
I think Justin could perfectly well kill Malcolm using magic and making it look like a natural death, he was a warden after all. And if not he had Bob to explain him exactly how. He also had a motive, with Malcolm alive Harry would stay with him and would not enter the system. Justin might have killed Elaines parent(s) as well just to get hold of her.

While I for one have no doubts about Justin being able to kill Malcolm on the quiet to set Harry up to be 'saved' by him, I do question him being able to conceal him well enough that both Morgan and Eb would be unable to find him, so he definitely had help somewhere. That to me is the more interesting topic.

So who was that? Lea might have wanting to 'toughen him up' with a little isolation. Teach him independence, sounds like her.
Maybe Nemesis, trying to shape him as Morgan feared?
Maybe it was part of Maggie's old cabal (we know Justin was part of it) or perhaps the White Council arranged it, and just didn't know that Justin had gone bad.

Harry has been manipulated for his entire life and we don't even know who might be doing it yet, because Harry doesn't like to ask important questions if it's at all possible.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on December 31, 2020, 03:24:52 PM
Just kill him and call the mortal authorities and disappear. Use a veil if you want to observe. Ebenezer would prefer Harry as an anonymous kid in the system and they were probably not even there especially if there was some distraction and Justin had some time to wait until one popped up.

It is not that complicated, actually it is pretty straightforward. The natural looking death was of course necessary to make everything go as smooth as possible.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on December 31, 2020, 08:58:34 PM
Harry has been manipulated for his entire life and we don't even know who might be doing it yet, because Harry doesn't like to ask important questions if it's at all possible.

The really interesting question is, "What will it take for Harry to start asking relevant questions, and to seek answers on his own if no one; who won't ask for his soul or something nearly as ruinous in return, will give him complete answers?"

Even in Battle Ground LTW held out against answering Harry's question about being Starborn.  Does anyone think Harry will be given a complete answer or any at all, in one year's time when LTW promised to get back to Harry?  I think some major event, or several, are going to push Harry to a point where not asking questions or getting straight answers will become impossible for him to tolerate.  I just wish we could get to it sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on December 31, 2020, 09:53:38 PM
Quote
The really interesting question is, "What will it take for Harry to start asking relevant questions, and to seek answers on his own if no one; who won't ask for his soul or something nearly as ruinous in return, will give him complete answers?"

Maybe because he might get answers he really isn't ready to deal with as of yet.  While Lara may not have done it, it is logical that Lord Raith may have.  Now she might reveal the whole thing on their wedding night... :o
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: pcpoet on December 31, 2020, 10:18:39 PM
11 years ago I discovered my roommate dead by an aneurism.  I can tell you from personnel experience in how I found my roommate that it looked like it could of been the result of a white court vampire attack.    I came home from playing board games with friends at 2 am in the morning.  the place was an old Victorian style house that had been a rooming house since it was built in the 1880s. the land lord lived downstairs and there were 3 rooms for rent upstairs, each room was almost its own apartment only there was no bathroom except for one shared bathroom for all three rooms. When I got home at 2 am I made ready for bed and went down the hall passing his room. When I passed is room the door was open and I glanced in. what I saw was him nude on the bed and he looked to be pleasuring himself. I Quickly looked away and thought oh my god he is a pervert he wanted me to catch him doing this. At the time I had only roomed with the person about 6 weeks and really did not know the guy will. I went took a shower and when I returned to my room I did not look in on purpose. next day I get up in the morning go to the bath room and the door is wide open and he is in the same position he was in from the night before. only now I realize that somethings wrong. I go into his room and feel his neck looking for a pulse his body is cold and dead.  on his face is a big smile.  I call 911 and wait for the police down stairs in my land lords living room.2 weeks later I find out that had died around noon time the previous day from a aneurism.  the guy had a smile on his face just like other white court victims in the Dresden files.  side note the police believe that he had taken a shower and was getting ready  when he realized something was wrong went back to his room sat down on bed naked picked up phone dropped the phone and died with his hands at his crotch.  years later I look at this and wonder was he actualy the victim of the white court feeding.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Snark Knight on January 01, 2021, 03:30:44 AM
Lara might leave her victims with a smile on their face, but I really doubt it would be a quiet enough process that a kid in the same room would sleep through it.

Besides, Malcolm and Margaret probably had a genuine true love relationship based on the available information about how she changed. A devoted single father who was rarely in the same place for more than a few days probably didn't have much opportunity to move on in the dating scene after losing his wife, so that protection may very well still have been an obstacle to Lara.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 01, 2021, 04:26:30 AM
A dead by Lara would not have the same medical symptoms. We see in white night that it has no symptoms at all, the body seems perfectly healthy except dead.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: pcpoet on January 01, 2021, 04:28:23 AM
just because there was true love between Malcom and Margret  does not mean he was still protected. there had been 6 year period since Margret died.  all that needed to happen was for Malcom to meet some one and be intimate with the person and his true love protection was over. As young as Dresden was and Dresden dad being a good dad Dresden would have no idea that his dad had a new girl friend especially if Malcom was killed immediately after this happened.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on January 03, 2021, 11:42:36 PM
just because there was true love between Malcom and Margret  does not mean he was still protected. there had been 6 year period since Margret died.  all that needed to happen was for Malcom to meet some one and be intimate with the person and his true love protection was over. As young as Dresden was and Dresden dad being a good dad Dresden would have no idea that his dad had a new girl friend especially if Malcom was killed immediately after this happened.

But that doesn't contradict Snark Night's first point.  Lara isn't a ghost and can't make herself invisible or guarantee that her victim would remain silent or that his clothing or bedding would remain un-disheveled.  There would be or have been sounds, signs and possibly even smells if Lara had been in the room doing her vampity tricks with Malcolm and even taking time to clean things up would have been risky for her. 
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 04, 2021, 04:31:50 AM
Indeed, but if an aneurysm was listed as a cause of death, who is to say that isn't what causes the ultimate death of a WCV victim?
The books. Don't remember where, but it is said that it's usually heart failure. An aneurysm is similar in that both can be set off by similar activities and emotional stresses, so I wouldn't be surprised if aneurysms were what happened most often when it wasn't heart failure.

We need to ask Butters, he must of autopsied a WCV victim a time or two in his career..
He did examine several in WN. One of which didn't have obvious signs of suicide.

Justin is a likely culprit. He is the only one with a strong motivation to kill the father and not the son and to make sure he can easily take Harry later as an orphan and make Harry thank him for it.
Lea has a motive as this leads to Harry being greatly in her debt.

It probably wasn't Justin, or, if it was, he wasn't acting on his own because where's the dramatic pay off in that? It's going to be a character Harry can confront.

The only group who we know has reached in to the juvenile system is the BC, who do it to Molly in Proven Guilty.
Black Council or Black Court? I read it as Black Court at first and would strongly object to the use of know in that instance.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: morriswalters on January 04, 2021, 04:41:40 AM
No, the Black Council. 
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 04, 2021, 04:45:16 AM
I still wouldn't say know because I think we know very little beyond the obvious from PG, but Black Council is more likely than most. Sandra Marlin was definitely up to no good and working for/affiliated with someone.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 04, 2021, 05:08:23 AM
The books. Don't remember where, but it is said that it's usually heart failure. An aneurysm is similar in that both can be set off by similar activities and emotional stresses, so I wouldn't be surprised if aneurysms were what happened most often when it wasn't heart failure.
He did examine several in WN. One of which didn't have obvious signs of suicide.
Lea has a motive as this leads to Harry being greatly in her debt.
Lea does not even have the means. She had to protect Harry and killing his father does not fit. She needed a deal with Harry to harm him and that does not fit either. Lea is just too far fetched. Certainly not yet crazy from dagger Lea. It is a level of direct interference in human affairs that needs a deal. With Malcolm.
Quote
It probably wasn't Justin, or, if it was, he wasn't acting on his own because where's the dramatic pay off in that? It's going to be a character Harry can confront.
He is the only one with the means and a clear motive. He who walks behind is the character Harry is going to confront.

Quote
Black Council or Black Court? I read it as Black Court at first and would strongly object to the use of know in that instance.
Context. It must be black council here.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Ed0517 on January 04, 2021, 05:50:14 AM

3. Whoever was in cahoots with Justin, and dissappeared Harry into the system.


Number 3 is the most likely and that I think is the Merlin, recent WOJ indicates that the Merlin has been trying to manipulate Harry for years. Justin was a trusted senior Warden, exactly the person the Merlin would go to if he didn’t trust Lucio or Morgan in respect of Harry. It would be apt that the Merlin is guilty of a deliberate premeditated breach of the first law in killing Malcom Dresden having hounded Harry for a breach in self defence. The Merlin strikes me as a hypocrite of the first order.

It is only a violation if the Merlin used magic - what if he recruited/hired a Whamp to do Malcolm? Malcolm could have a smile on his face... but blood from his ear in an aneurysm. Seen the bleeding happen myself.  Maybe vamp saliva spikes the blood pressure higher and higher... until something pops....

Not Lara, though. Too high connections. Someone lower in the hierarchy - why use a princess when a commoner can do the job... and is more easily vanished later if need be? That Whamp may have been playing a power game trying to gain prestige from playing the White Court... until she was played.   
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 04, 2021, 04:17:46 PM
She had to protect Harry and killing his father does not fit.
I've seen plenty of people say that Lea would think it was in Harry's best interest to have his father killed. See what Lily says about Lea being Harry's godmother and what she taught him in CD.

She needed a deal with Harry to harm him and that does not fit either. Lea is just too far fetched.
She's not a faerie queen.

He who walks behind is the character Harry is going to confront.
I don't see the big pay off with the revelation that an unspeakable evil is evil. It makes sense from a Watsonian perspective, but not from a Doylist.

Context. It must be black council here.
When I read it, I immediately recalled the theory that Sandra Marlin was Mavra.

why use a princess when a commoner can do the job   
Because it's a character Harry knows. Makes him feel betrayed.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 04, 2021, 04:42:49 PM
I've seen plenty of people say that Lea would think it was in Harry's best interest to have his father killed. See what Lily says about Lea being Harry's godmother and what she taught him in CD.
She's not a faerie queen.
But similar rules seem to apply in grave peril when Lea showed she had the power to heal him it was scary. It was because of their deal.

A deal can give the Sidhe power over you they normally do not have
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 04, 2021, 04:53:40 PM
But similar rules seem to apply in grave peril when Lea showed she had the power to heal him it was scary. It was because of their deal.
There was a lot of stuff like that in the early books, but by SmF we have hobs killing carrying off random people at a train station. I've always said there's a lot of early installment weirdness in the first three books. I think Sidhe not being able to harm people is an example of that.

In the Curses short story, it's implied or stated that the Queens don't like their Sidhe killing mortals because the Queens can't, so the Sidhe are hesitant to just go a murdering. The Twyleth Teg have no such limitations.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 04, 2021, 06:25:33 PM
There was a lot of stuff like that in the early books, but by SmF we have hobs killing carrying off random people at a train station. I've always said there's a lot of early installment weirdness in the first three books. I think Sidhe not being able to harm people is an example of that.

In the Curses short story, it's implied or stated that the Queens don't like their Sidhe killing mortals because the Queens can't, so the Sidhe are hesitant to just go a murdering. The Twyleth Teg have no such limitations.
Hobs are not Sidhe but I think it makes Lea a less likely candidate.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 04, 2021, 07:05:04 PM
I have a hard time figuring out what the distinction is between Sidhe and not Sidhe.

I also think the early rule about Sidhe, or maybe it was just faeries, not being much of a threat in the mortal world was nerfed pretty hard as the series went on.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Snark Knight on January 04, 2021, 08:57:02 PM
As young as Dresden was and Dresden dad being a good dad Dresden would have no idea that his dad had a new girl friend especially if Malcom was killed immediately after this happened.

It's more the being on the road all the time that makes a somewhat steady new girlfriend difficult. Him being a good dad is what argues against leaving his little kid alone in a motel room to go have one-night stands.

Sure, it's possible, just difficult.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: b4utoo on January 05, 2021, 02:56:48 AM
Why are taking Cause of death as fact? Lara raith could have made the coroner write that aneurysm cause of death. Which would be the simplest explanation instead of debating you're all non medical opinions
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 05, 2021, 03:24:55 AM
Why are taking Cause of death as fact? Lara raith could have made the coroner write that aneurysm cause of death. Which would be the simplest explanation instead of debating you're all non medical opinions
Because why would Lara do so?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: b4utoo on January 05, 2021, 04:53:10 PM
Lord Faith could of used her as "Cats paws" etc
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 05, 2021, 05:33:09 PM
Lord Faith could of used her as "Cats paws" etc
Surebut that is not the question. Why would she make it look like an an aneurysm? Justin ha a clear motive for doing so but Lara seems to be content with the usual symptoms of a white court dead.

Faking a natural dead points to Justin.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Ed0517 on January 08, 2021, 06:55:12 AM


Not Lara, though. Too high connections. Someone lower in the hierarchy - why use a princess when a commoner can do the job... and is more easily vanished later if need be?



Because it's a character Harry knows. Makes him feel betrayed.

Harry was six when Malcolm died. He didn't meet Lara until the porno movie shoot. They didn't know he'd ever meet her then.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: b4utoo on January 08, 2021, 05:52:28 PM
Who says Lara even made it look like an aneurysm far as We Know one of the black cat detectives or coroner or somebody could have just made it look like that because like Murphy they got to justify as cause of death
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: The_Sibelis on January 08, 2021, 06:07:29 PM
That's not quite the same as getting shot at point blank range.. I don't think anyone made that part up, just set it up. Totally different.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 08, 2021, 06:25:26 PM
Who says Lara even made it look like an aneurysm far as We Know one of the black cat detectives or coroner or somebody could have just made it look like that because like Murphy they got to justify as cause of death
Not necessary. Even the murder spree in eight night would have been seen as natural by everyone if Karen was not involved and it is still in the books as natural.

The white court has no need to make its kills look like something else. Justin does.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 08, 2021, 07:03:45 PM
Harry was six when Malcolm died. He didn't meet Lara until the porno movie shoot. They didn't know he'd ever meet her then.
He still feel betrayed because she was keeping the secret from him and then married him (maybe) with the knowledge that she murdered his father. Even if he doesn't feel betrayed, it's still likely to be a character Harry knows. That's a bigger payoff. What's the point of Harry finding out that "White Court Vampire No. 37" killed his father? That's the answer to the question "why use a princess when a commoner can do the job?" Because Harry doesn't know the commoner.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: morriswalters on January 08, 2021, 11:35:22 PM
This is death by White Court.
Quote
"That's the thing," Butters said. "I couldn't find one."

I lifted both eyebrows at him.

He spread his hands. "Harry, I know my trade. I like figuring this stuff out. And I haven't got the foggiest why the woman is dead. Every test I ran came up negative; every theory I put together fell apart. Medically speaking, she's in good shape. It's like her whole system just… got the switch turned off. Everything at once. Never seen anything like it."
Since this is suspicious I would gather that the assumption is the defect was an attempt for the death to look like natural causes.  No indication that the White Court can do that except with a curse, unless of course Lord Raith could do it.  Somewhere it is stated that he could look at people and make them dead. An aneurysm which has ruptured would  be the same in all relevant characteristics as the ruptured heart of someone targeted by the curse. A small curse might look just like that.  This is assuming, of course that Jim has actually picked a villain at this point.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 12, 2021, 09:41:10 PM
A death certificate or investigation can say whatever the hypothetical mind controlling White Court conspirators want it to say.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2021, 10:47:56 PM
A death certificate or investigation can say whatever the hypothetical mind controlling White Court conspirators want it to say.
Sure but why bother?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 14, 2021, 07:31:15 PM
Sure but why bother?
To avoid suspicion from a child who could become a powerful wizard who grew up thinking that and never questioned it at all until a demon told him it wasn't natural causes. Even then, he doesn't seriously question it.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 14, 2021, 07:45:11 PM
To avoid suspicion from a child who could become a powerful wizard who grew up thinking that and never questioned it at all until a demon told him it wasn't natural causes. Even then, he doesn't seriously question it.
White court vampires in the book never bother with that, they trust it looks natural enough and the mortals find some natural cause.

By the time Malcolm died papa Raith was aware of Margaret’s curse. He would have killed the child if he knew about him. He did not. Maybe he did not even know about Malcolm. He only learned everything in blood rites.

Justin had a reason to leav Harry alive.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on January 14, 2021, 08:33:39 PM
This is death by White Court.Since this is suspicious I would gather that the assumption is the defect was an attempt for the death to look like natural causes.  No indication that the White Court can do that except with a curse, unless of course Lord Raith could do it.  Somewhere it is stated that he could look at people and make them dead. An aneurysm which has ruptured would  be the same in all relevant characteristics as the ruptured heart of someone targeted by the curse. A small curse might look just like that.  This is assuming, of course that Jim has actually picked a villain at this point.

Oh I think the White Court could be the one group of vamps that could pull off a murder and it would look like natural causes.  After all, what physical evidence would death by overwhelming sexual pleasure look like?  Maybe a youngish healthy man apparently dying in his sleep with a smile on his face?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 14, 2021, 10:05:47 PM
Oh I think the White Court could be the one group of vamps that could pull off a murder and it would look like natural causes.  After all, what physical evidence would death by overwhelming sexual pleasure look like?  Maybe a youngish healthy man apparently dying in his sleep with a smile on his face?
So why make it look like an aneurysm? A warlock hiding a murder with magic would do so.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Kindler on January 15, 2021, 08:27:33 PM
I find the timing weird for Justin to have been (whether he did it personally or had help) behind it. Harry is in the orphanage for four years between his father's death and Justin's adoption. It feels off to me that Justin would kill Malcolm and then chill out for four years until Harry develops his talent. That isn't to say that Justin wasn't watching, though. If it was a year—maybe two—I might be able to see it. But four years is a long time to wait after committing murder.
The one person we know had contact with Harry while he was in the orphanage was Lea. And I could see Lea offing Malcolm, possibly (or maybe even probably) as part of her bargain with Margaret (the agreement WOJ claims would drive Harry to immediately attempt to kill her should he ever learn the full details). And Malcolm might have smiled when he died if he knew it was for a good reason—particularly if it was Margaret's reason.
Pretty sure Lara or Papa Raith offed Murphy's dad, though.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 15, 2021, 09:07:59 PM
I find the timing weird for Justin to have been (whether he did it personally or had help) behind it. Harry is in the orphanage for four years between his father's death and Justin's adoption. It feels off to me that Justin would kill Malcolm and then chill out for four years until Harry develops his talent. That isn't to say that Justin wasn't watching, though. If it was a year—maybe two—I might be able to see it. But four years is a long time to wait after committing murder.
The one person we know had contact with Harry while he was in the orphanage was Lea. And I could see Lea offing Malcolm, possibly (or maybe even probably) as part of her bargain with Margaret (the agreement WOJ claims would drive Harry to immediately attempt to kill her should he ever learn the full details). And Malcolm might have smiled when he died if he knew it was for a good reason—particularly if it was Margaret's reason.
Pretty sure Lara or Papa Raith offed Murphy's dad, though.
Waiting a few years after Malcolm’s dead serves several purposes. Like not having to deal with young children and making it easier to play the savior.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: The_Sibelis on January 16, 2021, 06:36:43 AM
One point on that, he didn't just go to an orphanage, he disappear into it. Like, nobody could find him(i.e. Morgan) In order for Justin to do so, he had to have had the inside track on it at least.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 16, 2021, 07:35:16 AM
White court vampires in the book never bother with that, they trust it looks natural enough and the mortals find some natural cause.
2 out of 3 did try to fly under the White Council's, specifically Harry's, radar in WN. The third was regarded as an idiot for not doing so.

Furthermore, the death certificate is going to say something for cause of death. In the DF, it's not going to say unknown. That's like showing up to a Wal-Mart with a bunch of people experiencing memory loss and disorientation and not declaring it a gas leak.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 16, 2021, 08:59:44 AM
2 out of 3 did try to fly under the White Council's, specifically Harry's, radar in WN. The third was regarded as an idiot for not doing so.

Furthermore, the death certificate is going to say something for cause of death. In the DF, it's not going to say unknown. That's like showing up to a Wal-Mart with a bunch of people experiencing memory loss and disorientation and not declaring it a gas leak.
Only because Murphy got suspicious, Harry had no clue before that. And that was partly because of the huge number of victims. Chances are great that with another police officer nothing would have happened and without Harry the white council would not have been aware and would not have acted anyway.

Malcolm was a single victim seemingly unconnected to everything.

More importantly papa Raith had no motive to kill Malcolm but a lot of reasons to kill Harry. Justin had reasons to kill Malcolm but no reasons to kill Harry. What happened?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on January 16, 2021, 11:52:01 AM
So why make it look like an aneurysm? A warlock hiding a murder with magic would do so.

It isn't like anyone part of the White Court doesn't know magic. Right?  What killed Harry's mother, and who did it?  I wonder what is written on her death certificate?
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 16, 2021, 12:23:57 PM
It isn't like anyone part of the White Court doesn't know magic. Right?  What killed Harry's mother, and who did it?  I wonder what is written on her death certificate?
Some do but Lara does not and I do not get the impression that it is wide spread.

Thomas can do some magic but it is limited.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on January 16, 2021, 04:07:46 PM
Some do but Lara does not and I do not get the impression that it is wide spread.

Thomas can do some magic but it is limited.

But does that preclude her ordering someone in the family with power, to do it?  Malcolm wouldn't have technically died by her hand, but she'd be just as guilty.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 16, 2021, 05:29:50 PM
But does that preclude her ordering someone in the family with power, to do it?  Malcolm wouldn't have technically died by her hand, but she'd be just as guilty.
Het father at this point. But why would she leave Harry malive and kill the father and not the other way round.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on January 16, 2021, 07:26:51 PM
Het father at this point. But why would she leave Harry malive and kill the father and not the other way round.

  Who knows?  She may be thinking long term, or Malcolm stole Margaret away from her father so further revenge.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: b4utoo on January 16, 2021, 10:41:00 PM
Well I believe that Lara didn't even know she did it... at least not yet. So anything other than the murder itself doesn't matter. Pure Revenge killing on behalf of Lord Raith
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 17, 2021, 09:51:57 AM
Well I believe that Lara didn't even know she did it... at least not yet. So anything other than the murder itself doesn't matter. Pure Revenge killing on behalf of Lord Raith
Lara was never stupid. Afraid of her father yes but stupid no. She knew Margaret and if she suddenly got an order to kill someone she would gather information.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Ed0517 on January 19, 2021, 03:05:37 AM
Some do but Lara does not and I do not get the impression that it is wide spread.

Thomas can do some magic but it is limited.

Thomas also had a pretty good level wizard for a mother.....  and I would assume most Council women would not hook up with a Whamp. The Whamps know OF magic, but use it? Maybe the Hunger dampens magical ability too - yes, Thomas may have some.. but who are his relatives? His mom was good, his brother is VERY good, and old Grandpa..... top of the heap.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Ed0517 on January 19, 2021, 03:07:00 AM
I find the timing weird for Justin to have been (whether he did it personally or had help) behind it. Harry is in the orphanage for four years between his father's death and Justin's adoption. It feels off to me that Justin would kill Malcolm and then chill out for four years until Harry develops his talent.

Maybe simply to make sure Harry DOES manifest a talent? I  don't think it was a 100% certainty. And if it was 100%... I should think the Council would be keeping CLOSE tabs on its members, especially the females with ability - like Margaret.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: morriswalters on January 19, 2021, 04:20:30 AM
Timing issue.  You plan for the possibility that Harry will manifest but you don't know when. So you kick out all of his emotional support(kill Malcolm) and feed him to the meat grinder and wait. If he manifests you have him and he's in a frame of mind to take what Justin can offer, and if he doesn't, then  he stays with the state. Cheap and convenient and safe. You can picture Nicodemus doing something of a similar nature for his acolytes.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 19, 2021, 06:13:57 AM
I find the timing weird for Justin to have been (whether he did it personally or had help) behind it. Harry is in the orphanage for four years between his father's death and Justin's adoption. It feels off to me that Justin would kill Malcolm and then chill out for four years until Harry develops his talent. That isn't to say that Justin wasn't watching, though. If it was a year—maybe two—I might be able to see it. But four years is a long time to wait after committing murder..
It is also the smart thing to do if you are a long term planner and Justin apparently is.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Arjan on January 19, 2021, 06:20:24 AM
Thomas also had a pretty good level wizard for a mother.....  and I would assume most Council women would not hook up with a Whamp. The Whamps know OF magic, but use it? Maybe the Hunger dampens magical ability too - yes, Thomas may have some.. but who are his relatives? His mom was good, his brother is VERY good, and old Grandpa..... top of the heap.
Hookup with a wizard is unlikely. Hookup with a warlock however would be very convenient, they are looking for protection from the white council after all.

And a young wizard is vulnerable to the white court whammy. If a white court vampire was daring and subtle enough she could arrange a one night stand with a young wizard. Especially one living apart far from other wizards.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 19, 2021, 05:54:49 PM
More importantly papa Raith had no motive to kill Malcolm but a lot of reasons to kill Harry. Justin had reasons to kill Malcolm but no reasons to kill Harry. What happened?
I was never arguing that a Raith killed Malcolm. I was arguing that a death certificate saying he died of an aneurism makes sense no matter who killed him. I've don't think whoever killed Malcolm is dead and defeated, so I don't think it's just Lord Raith or just Justin (unless Justin is still around).

If it was some mysterious death the coroner couldn't figure out, pick a natural cause it most looks like and go with that to hide the fact he doesn't know what's going on. The series has established that's how these things work unless you run into someone like Butters who ends up being committed and not telling the truth in an official report again.

If it was anyone trying to not kill Harry but instead use him somehow down the road, they wouldn't want anything to prompt him to question the death when he realizes one cannot trust the official records. If it was labeled "unknown" like it can be in the real world, Harry's first thought would probably be magic.

And Lord Raith may have thought he had to kill Malcolm because he couldn't let a "buck" steal his "doe." He couldn't let Arturo survive having unwittingly defied him. And that was probably a much lesser slight than "poaching" a "doe" from the king of "apex sexual predator(s)."

Het father at this point. But why would she leave Harry malive and kill the father and not the other way round.
Because she's much less of a monster than her father. Her father orders Malcolm killed for the reason I stated above. He has been assuming Harry died at birth or is oblivious to the particulars of Margaret's death. He seems the type to miss little things like this, but that might be because he's incapable of feeding when we meet him and is slowly going insane. His inattention to details would also explain why it took six years for him to order Malcolm's death.

Another possibility that hasn't been brought up is that Lord Raith and Justin were working together. They were both part of whatever scheme Margaret was a part of. Many here have theorized that that Margaret birthing a starborn was part of that scheme.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on January 19, 2021, 06:18:11 PM
Quote
Because she's much less of a monster than her father. Her father orders Malcolm killed for the reason I stated above. He has been assuming Harry died at birth or is oblivious to the particulars of Margaret's death. He seems the type to miss little things like this, but that might be because he's incapable of feeding when we meet him and is slowly going insane. His inattention to details would also explain why it took six years for him to order Malcolm's death.

Actually we don't know how much of a monster Lara is capable of being.  Just because your pet tiger seems tame, don't ever forget that it is a wild animal and it's instinct is to eat you... ::)
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Bad Alias on January 19, 2021, 07:14:08 PM
Actually we don't know how much of a monster Lara is capable of being.  Just because your pet tiger seems tame, don't ever forget that it is a wild animal and it's instinct is to eat you... ::)
Sure, but Lord Raith was evil for evil's sake. Lara doesn't seem to enjoy petty cruelties like he did. While I think that makes Lara less of a monster, I also think it makes her a more capable monster.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: Mira on January 19, 2021, 07:40:20 PM
Sure, but Lord Raith was evil for evil's sake. Lara doesn't seem to enjoy petty cruelties like he did. While I think that makes Lara less of a monster, I also think it makes her a more capable monster.

  I don't know about that, consider her vanilla guards, when they were badly injured protecting her, she fed them to her fellows instead of heroic measures to try and save them..
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: morriswalters on January 19, 2021, 07:55:55 PM
We've seen a Sidhe kill a man with a heart attack.  Maeve does it with a trumpet player in Summer Knight. But having watched a man die with a burst aneurysm, there was no smile on his face.  Maybe Malcolm knew something that the person who killed him didn't.
Title: Re: Lara Raith killed Malcolm Dresden
Post by: forumghost on January 19, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
  I don't know about that, consider her vanilla guards, when they were badly injured protecting her, she fed them to her fellows instead of heroic measures to try and save them..

That's a practical evil. They were injured, and so they weren't useful. Better to use them to fix up her fellow Wampires.

Her father on the other hand would have also fed the Healthy ones to them, because who cares, you can always hire more mercs. And by hire, he means addict them to you so they'll work for free.