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Messages - john4200

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31
Two quotes are explanation enough for me as to the identity of the whisperer.

Seven word equals Uriel.

Was anyone doubting that the second whisperer was Uriel?

The question on most people's minds, I think, is who was the first whisperer. The dark shadow, the Fallen, from Changes, who was pointed out to Harry in Ghost Story by Uriel, but not identified by name. If I were Dresden, I certainly would have asked Uriel its name. I think Harry has a right to know that.


32
That's true!  It's been stated over and over in the books that the Sidhe don't lie, but then Uriel states it plain as day here... curiouser and curiouser...

It is an unprovable assertion that a person cannot knowingly lie. It can only be falsified, but never proven. At best, an omniscient truthteller could verify it, but does Harry know an omniscient person who never lies? Maybe Ivy, but she can probably lie, and she is not quite omniscient, and she would not tell even if she did know. Maybe Uriel, although he is not omniscient or he can lie (or at least fake) since he either did not know, or pretended not to know, about Captain Jack's statement to Harry about the three friends in trouble. But Uriel is probably the closest thing to omniscient and truthful that Harry is likely to meet, and he called Mab's statement "Lies."

So, I think Harry's assumption that the Sidhe cannot lie is rather weak, especially with the evidence in Ghost Story where Mab comes very close to knowingly lying. Some have posted arguments that Mab did not REALLY knowingly lie, but I think that is splitting hairs.


33
Except that the "parasite" is specifically mentioned in connection with the circulation of blood, not of digestion. Remember the tree is associated with IV tubes going into Harry. But *something* still needs to keep his heart beating.

Why do you assume something needs to keep the heart beating? The tree could be filtering the blood and providing pressure to circulate the blood as well. Which seems to be what you said in your first sentence, anyway ("circulation").

34
^ i don't know if i can buy that seein as Demonreach made the distinction between Here (the island) providing nourishment and the parasite providing the blood flow. So far i've read Lash or his mom. I'm leanin more towards Lash unless his amulet has something to do with the situation.

No, the simplest explanation is usually the best. Look at how Demonreach talks. It uses odd words for things. It would not sound right if Demonreach called it a "tree". Parasite is the sort of odd word Demonreach would use to refer to the tree.

And the distinction you refer to is hardly important. My body digests food and my parasites aid in the digestion process. Just two different ways of referring to a process at different levels.

35
On a sidenote: Any thoughts on the parasite mentioned by Demonreach at the end of the Book?

I think it just meant the tree. To Demonreach, the plants, trees, and animals on the island are parasites living on Demonreach/Demonreach's territory.


36
Harry is now antihero/magnificent bastard for what he did to murphy thomas and above all Molly.  Let the world burn indeed.  gahhhhdammit jim!!! awesome...

Dresden may have said let the world burn, but what he actually ended up doing was destroying the entire Red Court of vampires, which probably saved thousands of innocent lives every year. Sure, it didn't result in peace on earth, but it was certainly worth doing, and I think heroic. So what if he had a moment of weakness and doubt, and decided to sacrifice his life in order not to risk becoming a monster. The only mistake was, in a moment of weakness and despair, pressuring Molly to be complicit in his death, but that does not make Dresden an anti-hero.

37
A live Denarian can do most things a human can do, and more, of course, depending on their special powers. Nicodemus could turn into a shadow and move around as a shadow. If he is still alive, I think he is a top candidate for the whisperer. Although, thinking about it again now, I wonder how any Denarian could get into the church with their powers intact. As you say, Uriel never confirmed it was a Denarian. Or maybe it was in Harry's head? Some remnant of Lasciel's shadow that wasn't totally converted by Harry?

38
I meant tied more in the sense that there is probably a lot going on with the WC we don't know about, and I'm sure McCoy is in the thick of it.  He might want to find Harry's killer, but he might also be too preoccupied.

Oh, you meant "hands full". Wrong metaphor!

Well, I find it unlikely. "Boy, sorry I did not have time to avenge your murder, I was busy for 6 months after you were killed. Lots of paperwork, you understand."

39
I think McCoy has to have his hands tied by the Council

Not possible. The White Council can only enforce the laws of magic, so at best they could prevent McCoy from killing the person with magic (but not with conventional means). But in McCoy's case, they cannot even do that, since he is the Blackstaff.

40
It was odd that we did not see or hear of Ebenezer McCoy. Considering that he dropped a satellite on the last people to mess with Dresden, I would have expected him to be on a major vendetta against whoever might be responsible for murdering Dresden. Given that Kincaid pulled the trigger (even at Harry's request), I wonder why McCoy wasn't after Kincaid. Only explanation I can come up with is that McCoy quietly investigated, found out everything somehow (including that Dresden's body was being kept alive), and decided his involvement was not required.

41
1. The Sidhe cannot -knowingly- tell a lie. Mab could believe harry is hers, especially after bending so many knights before him to her purposes.

Harry thinks she knows: "You can't make me your monster. Doesn't work. And you know it."

42
I lost a lot of respect for Harry in regards to what he did to Molly.  I'd say that's probably the most effed up thing he's knowingly done in the series to date, and that goes beyond the whole murdering Susan thing.  It was truly a terrible thing he did to Molly, and I really hope he'll repair it over the next book or two. 

I did not lose any respect for Harry about that -- it is understandable. I agree it was a terrible thing to do to Molly, and that Harry owes her a huge apology and needs to make it up to her. But Harry's behavior was understandable. He was suffering great despair, having just found out that he had a daughter and she was going to die horribly while there was nothing Harry could do about it because he had broken his back. Harry was feeling utterly powerless, and was forced to choose between two things that were both utterly abhorrent to him -- fail to save his daughter, or embrace evil to obtain the power he needs to save his daughter. On top of that, in the midst of his despair, a Fallen Angel whispers in his ear just the words that the Fallen knows will cause Harry the most anguish.

So, Harry made a bad decision. Understandable, under the circumstances. Humans make mistakes when under extreme stress. Whether I lose respect for Harry depends on how he atones for his mistake.

One other thing I wanted to add: while I do not agree with this viewpoint, I think it is interesting that by forcing such a terrible choice on Molly, Harry was doing what Lea said he owes his apprentice -- not being easy on her. Forcing Molly to do difficult things on the no pain, no gain philosophy. Not a philosophy that I find totally convincing, but I recognize it as a reasonable viewpoint for a teacher to take with a student, as long as it is not taken to extremes.


43
So, which of the Fallen whispered in Harry's ear in the flashback from Changes? The Fallen looked like a shadow, so maybe Nicodemus?

Also, it was interesting that Mab lied to Harry. Harry always thought that the Fae were incapable of lying, but Uriel confirmed Mab's lie in the first of his seven words.

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