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Messages - vultur

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61
DF Spoilers / Re: We Now Know What/Who Mac Is
« on: September 18, 2020, 05:12:42 PM »
Maybe, but if that were true, I don't think Harry would break down and weep like that, I think it is more.  He'd be sad about Eb, true, but he was an old man and if he died well, I don't see Harry weeping for him

I strongly disagree; I think the conversation between Harry and Murphy about talking to him before it's too late after Harry fights Eb could very well be foreshadowing for this. And Harry seems very torn up to find out how bad of shape Eb's in mentally.

I really don't think Murphy is going to die in BG, I think the series needs her.

62
DF Spoilers / Re: Now THAT's what I call a Sample Chapter!
« on: September 17, 2020, 06:56:22 AM »
No, but if Lara did demand it as a favor it would put both Mab and Harry between a rock and a hard place.  Depending on the politics and guilt of Thomas, releasing Thomas may blow the Accords apart.

I don't think the Svartalves are that important of a nation, really. Rescuing Thomas during the talks was a potential disaster because if it had become known, Mab's representative was breaking the rules at a major diplomatic meeting for Mab's Accords.

Now that that's a "fait accompli" I think the political picture is different.

The larger problem is that if Thomas was just released from Demonreach now, he'd die. There needs to be a solution for the whole "Hunger eating him" aspect first.

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Also if Thomas was guilty, would Alfred obey Harry? 

Yes. As Alfred says, "YOU ARE THE WARDEN". Harry could release all kinds of things.

That's why it's such a big deal among those few people who know about it... the Warden of Demonreach could basically cause a PT/BG level disaster any time he felt like it by releasing some horrible monster or ancient titan.

Which is one reason I think the 'kicking Harry out of the Council' bit is a ploy. We know he'd never do it, at least short of a Changes-level situation, but the people on the Senior Council who still think Harry is a potential ticking time bomb... given the binding power of oaths, he could just extract an oath from some titan to kill all his enemies on the Council and then release it.

63
DF Spoilers / Re: Now THAT's what I call a Sample Chapter!
« on: September 16, 2020, 04:47:57 AM »
The only other time we saw something shutdown Harry's sight for his own benefit was the angel guard to the "police station" in GS.

Yeah, this plus the call-back to him being called "Watcher" in CD plus his familiarity with the Placard... really strongly suggests that he is in fact one of the Grigorim/Watchers.

then you'd think he wouldn't be recognized by the accords as such, as they regard mortal hierchy. Hence gruff respecting Murphy's position as peace keeper.

I think that was more respecting Murphy's courage than anything legal. The Gruffs have a strong sense of honor, at least the older ones.

64
Her narrow beam fire attacks are a lot more efficient for putting down a lot of Fomor grunts quickly by sweeping through a crowd than Harry generating massive plumes of fire.

Oh, Luccio would still be more efficient - but in this situation, probably not enough to make up for Harry's power advantage... which is a lot larger than it used to be (not only Luccio's loss of power, but Harry's ability to draw on Winter).

Harry hates to have to use Winter, but when he really needs to, his power is probably far beyond what a normal wizard could match. Raising the warehouse with ice in CD was really incredibly impressive when I looked at the volume that would need.

 I don't think it would make him a match for Eb or the Merlin (who are both at the top end of power and skill) but post-bodyswap Luccio, sure.

Harry's so averse to using it that we don't see very much of what the Mantle can really do for him, but when we do, it's quite impressive.

65
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court Spy And Why Thomas attacked/murdered
« on: September 13, 2020, 12:03:37 AM »
Oh, I think he'll find out in BG, but he won't have a way that he can let Thomas out without his hunger killing him still..

The only answer I can see to that is the "Bigfoot on Campus" one... Thomas getting energy from someone with much more life-force available than the average human.

66
DF Spoilers / Re: Nightmares
« on: September 12, 2020, 11:56:02 PM »
However that doesn't explain Molly having talent and not the others.

Sure it could... if it takes say 3 years to fade after you stop using magic, and Michael/Charity were dating for a year and engaged for a year...

Anyway what else could that WoJ mean?

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Not unlike Butters who was able to make a magic circle under Harry's instruction.

I think any mortal can do that, it doesn't require either talent or skill in manipulating magic energy.

Harry says learning magic without the Sight is like someone who's blind learning to paint. A quick explanation wouldn't cut it.


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Now you could be right that the Hunger blocks some of that, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.

That seems to be the implication of the WoJ that White Court magic doesn't get as strong as human, but they can do some impressive things by mixing magic with their Hunger.

I don't see why it shouldn't make sense - the Hunger is a spiritual symbiote or parasite basically, why shouldn't it affect how a potential Whampire's magical potential develops?

67
DF Spoilers / Re: Elemental Chaos
« on: September 12, 2020, 11:43:46 PM »
Or perhaps it does have something to do with Judas, that it was actually Nic who betrayed Jesus, so the noose that Judas hung himself with is around Nic's neck because he tricked Judas into thinking he was the blame?  I know it isn't even high grade tin foil..

I've wondered before if Nic might *be* Judas... I rather doubt "Nicodemus Archleone" is his real name, Archleone doesn't sound right for that part of the world at that time.

68
DF Spoilers / Re: Jury Duty and the Peace Talks
« on: September 12, 2020, 12:51:53 PM »
Oh Lara's absolutely evil. She doesn't actually value human life at all, for example.

But as the conflict moves toward the BAT (vs individual supernatural crimes in the first books) her self-interest basically aligns with the 'good guys' at least to the degree of preserving civilization.

If Lara tries to make the WC "less evil" it would only be to the degree necessary for them to be accepted in a world where the supernatural is known... I would say 'less blatantly evil' or 'more controlled' instead.

69
DF Spoilers / Re: Elemental Chaos
« on: September 12, 2020, 12:45:40 PM »
I'm not actually convinced that the Denarian entropy curse is particularly more formidable than the one in BR sponsored by a Walker. The curse in DM didn't seem all *that* badass - the attempted strike before getting behind the wards was dangerous, but avoidable even exhausted and battered. It's primarily dangerous because it keeps trying if the first hit doesn't succeed, not because it hits overwhelmingly hard. The Walker's curse hits like a truck, but if it's avoided or redirected, that's it until the summoner can set up to cast it again.

That's a good point. I was thinking that it had to be more powerful because Harry could redirect the one in BR, but maybe not.

I was figuring it kept trying because it hadn't killed anyone, but if redirected it would be 'used up' since it actually killed someone (even though it was the wrong victim). But yeah, maybe there's more to it than that... especially since, as you point out, Nic is way more competent than the cult in BR.

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The Knights just seem to probably be overestimating it from dangerous to autokill because they don't know any countermagic other than to jump on the grenade.

Yeah that's kind of what I was wondering.

The curse itself might not seem all that badass, but it was turbocharged by the Shroud. 

Oh sure, with the Shroud it's a whole other issue. I'm talking about when Shiro says the Noose allows Nicodemus to mandate "a death that cannot be avoided". There's just got to be some way to avoid/block/flat out resist it if you're powerful enough.

Now maybe it only works on mortals, keeping him from killing Uriel with it or anything totally ridiculous like that.

But the fact that Harry's wards can block it does mean it's limited; somebody good enough ought to be able to outright counterspell it, even if that level's above any current mortal wizard. (I'm sure Odin or Mab could.)

70
DF Spoilers / Re: Nightmares
« on: September 12, 2020, 12:28:25 PM »
That doesn't work in the case of Molly verses her siblings because I doubt that Charity used any magic after she married Micheal.  Environmental would imply that Charity continued to use magic up until and after Molly's birth, she didn't.

I don't think that is compatible with the WOJ I linked/quoted above, though. That really does make it sound like time since Charity stopped using magic is the critical difference between Molly and the others.

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He dies, Harry spends time in an orphanage and foster homes, no magical talent exposure until his talent awakens on it's own, no environmental factors.

I'm talking about prenatal environment - whether one's mother had the biological effects of magic going on (at the time of the pregnancy).

Per WOJ Charity will have lost the extended lifespan... but presumably the improved healing and stuff don't go away instantly. It probably takes a couple of years to fade.

Sure magic doesn't manifest immediately at birth, but I think that's just a maturity thing.

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yet Thomas has very minor talent, actually almost none.

There's a WoJ that White Court don't get as strong magically as regular human wizards, so I think there is some interference from the vampire/Hunger side.

Also, I think you're understating what Thomas has. "Almost none" doesn't seem accurate; from what he says in Backup he hasn't put all that much time and effort into developing it. He seems to imply that training/time/effort is the major difference (comparing it to a six-month course vs a graduate degree).

I'm sure his talent is less strong than Harry's (very exceptional) one, probably not full Council level even if he really developed it, but it's way more than what a normal human has.

71
DF Spoilers / Re: Elemental Chaos
« on: September 12, 2020, 12:04:33 AM »
Or the Knights. Or their families.

Well, I was sort of thinking that using it on the Knights might not benefit him that much since they'd be replaced. But Shiro was awesome enough that, yeah, hitting him with it would clearly have been a win for the Denarians.

But yeah, I'd think the angelic protection would have to protect the Knights' families - which means there's an upper limit on what it can do.

I'm wondering if it's actually "just" a really strong entropy curse and the idea that it's unavoidable is a product of the Knights' relatively limited knowledge base (like the idea that there's no way to get a Shadow out of your head other than accepting the Coin or giving up magic). If Harry as of DM can build wards that keep it out of his apartment, then a really skilled wizard might be able to redirect it (like Harry did with the Outsider-powered entropy curse in BR).

72
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court Spy And Why Thomas attacked/murdered
« on: September 11, 2020, 11:57:18 PM »
Do Svartalfar have particular mind-magic skills, though? I'd expect it not to be all that easy to mind control Thomas, who is going to be used to thinking in those terms due to the nature of White Court powers.

73
DF Spoilers / Re: Elemental Chaos
« on: September 11, 2020, 08:31:58 PM »
I've wondered about that part of DM for a long time. How unavoidable is the curse really? Harry's wards block its effects temporarily. And it looks kind of like the entropy curse in BR.

Certainly Harry at that time couldn't deal with it long-term without Shiro dying in his place.

But could a more skilled wizard?

There must be some limit or Nic would just curse all the Archangels to die.

OK that's pretty extreme, but do you really think it would work on Mab or Titania, or even Molly or the Merlin or Eb?

74
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court Spy And Why Thomas attacked/murdered
« on: September 11, 2020, 08:26:57 PM »
@vulture, there's an older theory the reason Justine is the way she is is because she was born a changeling, and that sort of insanity is what Sarrisa's deal with Mab was preventing.

I think this still has the same problem... if Justine's issues were not actually a chemical imbalance of the known mundane sort, mundane medication wouldn't work, and she says in WN that it does.

I think Mab was just delaying Sarissa's need to Choose mortal or Fae (she's older than a mortal should be able to be but isn't Fae until the end of CD).

75
DF Spoilers / Re: Nightmares
« on: September 11, 2020, 08:20:03 PM »
🤔 that does not compute..

I might not have phrased that right.

What I meant is that it's not "Soulfire doesn't give you any capabilities you didn't already have", but more like "Magic is already based on who you fundamentally are, even more than normal choices; using Soulfire takes that to an even greater degree".

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Angels are All soul, if soul is what you really are,  then are you not an angel?

Uriel says "You are a soul, you have a body" (which is a C. S. Lewis quote, IIRC).

Angels are only a soul, they don't even have bodies (as I understand it, Uriel's human form in SG was created for that special case, or transformed from his normal soul-stuff existence, or whatever).

That doesn't make sense on a scientific level to begin with.

Not if the inheritance of magic is more environmental than genetic.

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  Also by that logic Molly shouldn't have any talent either.

WOJ on this:
https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-magic-in-the-dresden-files-part-2/

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what’s critical to this particular equation is the fact that Charity was consciously and deliberately neglecting her talent–which hadn’t been all THAT hot to begin with.  She went through the time she got engaged to Michael, all the way through Molly’s term, all the intervening time, etc, before she got to Daniel.  It had been more than two, maybe three years since she’d done anything with her magic by the time Daniel was conceived.

and

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Charity was, essentially, stacking up environmental factors against her unborn children developing their genetic propensity for magic into a real, tangible gift to the point where the chances of them actually doing it were negligible.

This is a case where the environmental influence overwhelms the genetic one.

The occasional patrilineal inheritance, eg Eb -> Maggie Sr, is presumably one where the prenatal environment was less important since Eb is an extremely strong talent so it would take much more to drop it "below threshold".

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