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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 07:31:13 PM

Title: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 07:31:13 PM
I know there is a thread about this somewhere, but me and the search function don't get along (aka it hates me)

So
Ideas

1. Less Aspects
7 is too darn many.
So lets keep
High Concept and the Trouble. They work pretty well, and they are simple to use and simple to understand.
Then two more that flesh out your character
The last one, this is the one I know I will get the most flak about which leads me to

It's too many to keep track of as a GM (3-5 players each with 7 Aspects, plus any scene aspects, stick aspects, city aspects, theme aspects, and the NPCS aspects is too many) Also after 3-4 they start to lose their "bite"

2. Drop the Guest Star Aspects
Instead of complicating character creation with somehow tying everyone to everyone else. Make your last Aspect tie into the game you are playing. So tie it to the City Aspect, or City Threat.

Example You are playing in a game where you are the Justice League and you are fighting Darksied. You play Batman, and the other two players are Aquaman and Plastic man
Batman
High Concept: Millionaire Playboy who dresses like a Bat and fights crime (or something along those lines)
Trouble: My Parents are Dead
Aspect: Where does he get those wonderful toys
Aspect: I'm the God D*mn Batman
Campaign Aspect: A Man among Gods

IF we did it the Dresden Files current way I would have to tie an Aspect to Plastic Man, and another to Aquaman. Meaning my Plastic man Aspect would be as important as the one that deals with my parents death. Thats nonsense.

3. Mental, Physical, and Social? Social and Mental need to be smashed together. Social Stresses could be better used as Sticky Aspects placed on Characters "Destroyer of the Red Court" or "That rude guy"

4. I really like contests in the Fate Core, and would love for them to be used in a new Dresden game. I also would like to steal, I mean pay homage, to Diasporas Social Conflict map. As is in the game, Social Conflict between characters means jacking them up. Which is nonsense. If I disagree with my friend about what movie to see it doesn't involve my scaring them for life so I can watch Kangaroo Jack (which is already scaring for life)

5. Magic. Um...to say the Magic system can get complicated, is well, um yeah. So feel free to add what you want to see in magic here.

6. Stress boxes. I'm mixed on this. I like that you can be taken out easily. I just don't like that if I have open stress boxes you can still be taken out. Hmmm.. Maybe it's fine the way it is.

7. Skill problems.
-Oh you took Performance at a +5, because you are a great actor. Now you're going to tell this guy a lie, roll me deceit. Why couldn't I roll Performance instead? Anyone? Maybe make some sort of buy in when it comes to skills? As I see it now, not all skills are not created equal.

8. Don't make me roll if it's not interesting.

Anyway, thats my ramble, I'm sure I can come up with more
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Tedronai on March 31, 2013, 07:41:01 PM
8. Don't make me roll if it's not interesting.

That's actually in DF the rules already.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 07:44:41 PM
That's actually in DF the rules already.

Then they are breaking their own rules.

I should edit it to say "Don't make me roll unless it's interesting and their are success and failures with that roll that are interesting"
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 08:12:13 PM
I think a lot of those things will be done pretty much like that in the accelerated version, though that will be a while.

Two things:
5. Magic. Um...to say the Magic system can get complicated, is well, um yeah. So feel free to add what you want to see in magic here.
I would simply make it a power to allow you to attack, defend and maneuver with magic. I had done a crude version of this already during a discussion in another thread, where I tried to divide evocation into 1 refresh powers. Ah, found it.

(click to show/hide)

Quote
7. Skill problems.
-Oh you took Performance at a +5, because you are a great actor. Now you're going to tell this guy a lie, roll me deceit. Why couldn't I roll Performance instead? Anyone? Maybe make some sort of buy in when it comes to skills? As I see it now, not all skills are not created equal.
That's looking at it the wrong way, I think. I would certainly allow someone to use performance here, if he was trying to convince someone of a carefully prepared lie. But if he was trying to come up with something on the spot, I would have him roll deceit. Or maybe performance limited by deceit. However, I think delivery of a lie can definitely be covered by performance. This could even be one of those times, where the character falls back on the scene from that audition he had a while back, which had a similar scene. It's all about how you go about it.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Tedronai on March 31, 2013, 08:33:25 PM
@Haru
You've got what appear to be some copy-pasting errors in the enhanced maneuvers, and possibly elsewhere.
By the same logic that is used to allow +2 to the accuracy of the enhanced attack, the stress, maneuver, and block boosters should provide more than they do.


@fanta
I'm not sure what you're getting at, because I recall that to be essentially the explicit rule already.
I suspect this may be an issue with a failure to implement that rule sufficiently in games you've been involved with.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 08:40:23 PM
Oh right. No, it's not a copy-paste error, this is how I wrote it up back then. Never really got back to testing or revisiting it.

You're right, maneuvers and blocks should probably not cost any stress then. I'll edit it. More than a +2 bonus is a bit much, I think.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Tedronai on March 31, 2013, 08:43:18 PM
Oh right. No, it's not a copy-paste error, this is how I wrote it up back then. Never really got back to testing or revisiting it.

It looks like a copy-paste error from the original version.
The maneuver-boosting power talks about blocks.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 08:46:58 PM
Ah, there it is. I really didn't see that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: KOFFEYKID on March 31, 2013, 09:03:32 PM
Combining Social and Mental stress tracks is... problematic. I'd much rather see a rework of the social combat system that makes the social track more prominently important like Physical and Mental tracks are.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Cadd on March 31, 2013, 11:23:34 PM
Then they are breaking their own rules.

I should edit it to say "Don't make me roll unless it's interesting and their are success and failures with that roll that are interesting"

How are they breaking their own rules?
Quote from: YS192
The dice only come
out when there is an interesting challenge with
meaningful consequences.
There's also an almost ˝ page long margin note about how important that part is.

Quote from: YS309
You want to make sure that both
outcomes are interesting—though “interesting”
isn’t the same as “good.”
Again highlighting that if there's no interesting result from both results of the roll, don't call for one!

If your GM doesn't follow that, take that up with your GM. That kind of thing can't really be worked into the rules other than through repeating the message above.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: fantazero on April 01, 2013, 12:49:29 AM
How are they breaking their own rules?There's also an almost ˝ page long margin note about how important that part is.
Again highlighting that if there's no interesting result from both results of the roll, don't call for one!

If your GM doesn't follow that, take that up with your GM. That kind of thing can't really be worked into the rules other than through repeating the message above.

I see it a lot in the magic system, I'll post more later
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Lavecki121 on April 01, 2013, 02:35:33 AM
The magic system has an issue with the result of your roll? How?

Also the aspect that you derive from guest star aspects isn't necessarily related to the person, it's related to the situation. In fact you could probably get that same aspect in your example when batman guest stars in superman's story with the green lantern or really any non mortal.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 01, 2013, 04:53:20 AM
(click to show/hide)

Are you still working on this? Because although it does need work, I think I see the potential for an interesting Incite Effect-like Power.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Haru on April 03, 2013, 02:55:50 PM
Are you still working on this? Because although it does need work, I think I see the potential for an interesting Incite Effect-like Power.
Hmm, kind of. I had it in the back of my head ever since the first crude version here, and it came back when I posted this here. I know some things I would change now for sure. If you like, I'll open a new topic so we can work on it, so we don't derail this thread too much. I'd certainly like your input.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Dougansf on April 03, 2013, 02:58:53 PM
We're currently running a Dresden Core game with some hybrid rules we've put together.  I like what I see above, so I'd like to see / help with more.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 04, 2013, 04:02:47 AM
Hmm, kind of. I had it in the back of my head ever since the first crude version here, and it came back when I posted this here. I know some things I would change now for sure. If you like, I'll open a new topic so we can work on it, so we don't derail this thread too much. I'd certainly like your input.

Go for it.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: fantazero on April 04, 2013, 06:56:00 PM
Go for it.
I'd like to see it
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Haru on April 04, 2013, 07:16:14 PM
Well, here we go then.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,37624.msg1836183.html#msg1836183
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: fantazero on April 04, 2013, 07:39:03 PM
I still mean to make good on the magic rule thing, I'm just busy at the moment
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Dougansf on April 04, 2013, 08:52:56 PM
Here's what we've worked up so far.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwouQYZcwYj2aDdORkgzeVNBa2s&usp=sharing

We're in the process of removing Discipline, Conviction, and Presence.  Replacing them all with Will. 
This means removing the Social stress track and just having Mental, as in Fate Core.

In theory (still being worked out):
1) Spellcasting powers will give you a Magic stress track, and the casting stress mechanic will work the same. 

2) Spell Power and Control will both be based off of Will, but at start you can choose to take a +1 to Power and a -1 to Control (or vice versa) to establish a different feel for your caster.

3) Specialty, Foci, and Refinement bonuses treated as normal.

4) We're debating if Rote spells should be based on the average, rounded down, of your Power and Control instead of just Control.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 05, 2013, 05:06:56 AM
That sounds risky to me, balance-wise. Needing 3 skills is one of spellcasting's major limitations.

I haven't read your rules carefully so I can't say for sure whether you've addressed this, though.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Dougansf on April 05, 2013, 11:30:46 AM
That sounds risky to me, balance-wise. Needing 3 skills is one of spellcasting's major limitations.

I haven't read your rules carefully so I can't say for sure whether you've addressed this, though.

I have reservations about the switch to Will myself.  Certainly not something to be done lightly.  However, the split really only matters to casters, to everyone else it's skill bloat, so I've been outvoted.

Also, melee types got some great consolidation of skills in Core.

This is also why the "Alternate Evocation" write up is intriguing.  If the Power simply allowed you to perform the 4 Actions with Will, instead of the complex and powerful DFRPG method, then it might balance against other skill/power combos adequately.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 05, 2013, 10:40:15 PM
I don't think the Conviction/Discipline split is skill bloat. Conviction and Discipline no more similar than Alertness and Investigation or Fists and Weapons.

The consolidation of melee skills in Core is nice, but it doesn't have the same effect on melee types that this would have on spellcasters. Because melee types aren't required to take multiple melee skills the way casters are required to take multiple casting skills.
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Lavecki121 on April 10, 2013, 03:54:31 AM
Dougan, have you looked through the magic toolkit yet for fate core? It might give you a better idea of what to do with your concept
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Dougansf on April 10, 2013, 07:47:10 PM
Dougan, have you looked through the magic toolkit yet for fate core? It might give you a better idea of what to do with your concept

I read it when it first came out.  I was figuring I'd wait till the final version before reading it again.

While the systems are not bad, none of them really felt like Dresden to me.  Was there something in particular you wanted to call my attention to?
Title: Re: Fate Core Dresden Ideas
Post by: Lavecki121 on April 10, 2013, 07:53:18 PM
lol, there was when I wrote that and I have since forgotten what it was.  :P

If I remember I will post it