8Elijah took his mantle, rolled it up and struck the water with it. The water divided to the right and to the left, and the two of them crossed over on dry ground. 9When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?”
“Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied.
10“You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”
11As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. 12Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.
13Elisha then picked up Elijah’s mantle that had fallen from him and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan. 14He took the mantle that had fallen from Elijah and struck the water with it. “Where now is the Lord, the God of Elijah?” he asked. When he struck the water, it divided to the right and to the left, and he crossed over.
15The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, “The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.” And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him.
Note: I intend to add a section in reply #2 that expands the theorizing of Free Will's role in GUCMT. I already edited in some of the ground work into the end of the main post.By the way, if you need more consecutive responses for the theory, let me know, and I'll remove my post and add it back when you're done.
By the way, if you need more consecutive responses for the theory, let me know, and I'll remove my post and add it back when you're done.
My only issue with the Dipole analogy is that it implies Balance. I'm not sure that's the case. Is your theory that the Outsiders are from the second Pole? The unreality to reality? The Chaos to Order? Because I don't feel like they can be True Chaos. If they were, the universes would be in really bad shape.
Transplant complete!I liked using the term "quasi discrete" because they still have ties back to upper tier Aspect/Aeon and to their sibling (for lack of a better term) Aspect/Aeons. Sorry that's kind of a non answer...
1) Is each Mantle an individual Aspect/Aeon?
2) Clearly Vadderrung has two different Mantles, and they remain separate from each other. They don't seem to manifest at the same time, but they're held by the same being. Is their compatibility due to their varied nature, and the WK/SK incompatibility due to their similar, opposing nature?Interesting question. I actually have a side/related theory that the Odin/Kringle duality was needed because when Mab took over at the Outer Gates the action offended (I am a fan of the theories that the Aesir were the guardians before the Fae). The duality ended up becoming necessary to allow a pissed off Odin to set that grudge aside when necessary by putting on a faerie hat of his own. Thus when it comes time to take care of business that reality hinges on and stuff, he has a tool in his toolbox that makes that possible.
"You're here as Kringle, seriously?" I asked him.
Kringle winked at me. "The Winter Knight called for me in his official capacity as an agent of the Winter Court. Mab has the right to summon Kringle. If she'd called for Vadderung, I'd have told her to get in line."
[/snip]
"But you and Kringle are the same person," I said.
"Legally speaking, Kringle and Vadderung are two entirely different people who simply happen to reside in the same body," he replied.
"That's just a fiction," I said, "a little game of protocol."
"Little games of protocol are how one shows respect, especially to those with whom on does not get along famously well. It can be tedious, but generally is less trouble than a duel would be."
3) Are human Souls a Mantle? From a certain viewpoint, a mortal shell/being is given an immortal power source to use for a time, and when the shell dies, the power source departs, continuing to exist elsewhere. Its almost like a Mantle, albeit not apparently reused, at least in some beliefs.Hmmm, deep. And apparently the kind of question the gnostics loved to examine. In fact, I believe for some of them, they believed that upon death, the soul was finally released from the imperfect and impure mortal reality and was finally allowed to reunite with the upper levels of existence.
4) If a Soul is an Aeon/Aspect, then wouldn't it mean that it would remain separate from the Mantle, and not be destroyed? There's been speculation by some that a host's Soul is slowly absorbed by the Queens Mantles, merging with them. But the Aeon/Aspect theory combined with the dual nature of Vadderrung's Mantles would imply that Aeons coexist and remain separate. Would that be the same for Souls, or are those Aeon's too weak to survive alone? I think there was a WoJ talking about how Mab lost her Soul. Did it just move on, since the Mantle Aeon pushed it out?Hmmmm, I know you are familiar with WoJ #14 which is the best I have for answering this train of thought. I think a better analogy for what may have happened to Mab's Soul would be that it withered and died due to maltreatment/malnourishment or something...
5) So Mister is Ferro? j/kHow have I never heard that one before? Hillarious.
6) Seriously, why hasn't Harry used Mister in a joke yet? "Mister Dresden?" "Mister Dresden is my cat. Call me Harry."
7) Could the inherent incompatibility of the W/S Mantles be due to the fact they were one Aeon/Aspect, which was then unnaturally divided into six/eight, rather than "pooping" out sub-Aspects? And if re-merging the WK/SK Mantles is such a bad thing, wouldn't it have been almost as bad for the SK Mantle to go to Winter in SK? For that matter, any of the six/eight Fae Mantles joining with any of the opposing side would be bad.I spent some time answering this in the multiple mantles section of Reply #2. I think I came up with an excellent response.
8) Souls are the perfect memories and sums of the lives they've led. But the mortal isn't aware or familiar with that perfect knowledge, nor even sure of its existence. Could the same be said for the Mantles/Aeons and their hosts? Upper echelon Aeons like Uriel might be self-aware of their Aeon/Aspect power and existence, explaining their inability to act; becoming aware of the situation in some way would limit their interaction. The Queens are partly aware, on three different levels, which allows for them to interact with events on three different levels. Mortals, being the least aware, are free to act.I'm not sure what I am supposed to be answering here... Generally for GUCMT, it seems that the more powerful the being, the more reality spanning, and more aware of their spanning of the reality spectrum. I do like how this ties the non wetware storage of mortal experiences to GUCMT though. I would say that the more powerful beings (I'll use that term for Mantles/Aeon's and their hosts together) apparently have access to this data storage. Either by watching it play across a Ghosts being, or some other means like with Lasciel's shadow.
9) In that sense, the whole purpose of mortals is to be the foot soldiers and pawns of upper level Aeons. Since they are unable to act, everything has to be fought on mortal plane. Obviously some battles are on other planes, like the Gates in the NN, but the eternal struggle between the two Poles is not fought at the wall, but on Earth. The wall and Gates are simply to keep the game board from being overrun.Meh, this gets kinda deep, and I'm not sure if I can address it. In the Amber Chronicles, it becomes an issue that at one point there was only one pole, and a prince of that pole actually struck out across reality and established the other pole, and somehow that act is what instituted all other reality. And part of the nature of the original pole is the need to destroy and subsume the opposite pole. But wait, if that were to happen, all reality would be destroyed. But then how could it have been established in the first place. And the egg and chicken need to be destroyed (that's me taking the conundrum and getting silly)
10) How does corruption play into the Aeon/Aspect theory? If TWG is one Pole, or so high/close to the 'Order' Pole that Its practically the same thing, then everything It created/"pooped" would be a lighter/ordered Aspect like itself. But clearly higher level Aeon/Aspects can be corrupted, like Lucifer. Luci should have been very high up on the Lightside, but Fell to the Darkside. Was that corruption due to something like Nemesis, or an inherent ability of Aeons/Aspects to change?
11) In SG, Uriel gave up his Grace, which in this theory, would be the equivalent of his Aeon. Had Michael acted poorly while wielding it, what would have happened to the Grace/Aeon? It doesn't seem like an Aeon could be destroyed, so it would have to go somewhere. Would it simply Fall to where Lucifer and the other Fallen Aeons are kept? Would Uriel remain a mortal, bearing only a mortal Soul? Would he have no Soul? And what about Luci? When he Fell, did he take on a mortal form, to live out his days as a human, and his Aeon/Mantle/Grace was put away in a lockbox? Or was did his Soul remain with the Aeon/Mantle/Grace?Hmmmm, well seeing as to how it was a Mortal who would have made the critical decisions, it might only apply to the local reality or set of realities. Or since it's involving such a heavyweight "Aeon" it might span a lot more if not all of the reality spectrum. As to what would have happened to the mantle and Uriel, I suppose that would depend entirely on how things shook down. Which means Jim would have to write it and see.
12) Is it the Soul that can be corrupted, rather than a higher level Aeon/Mantle/Grace? Do all beings, high and low, have a base ingredient Soul, which can be manipulated? And that Soul is what causes higher beings to Fall? In theory, to be mortal, Uriel would have to have a mortal Soul. If he had one, then Lucifer should have too, right? So is that Soul still tied to the Aeon/Mantle/Grace of Lucifer wherever it is? Is that twisted Soul what is causing the Grace to act out of character? And if it were separated, would the Aeon/Mantle/Grace appear to be corrupted/Fallen, or would it return to its normal Lightside state?Hmmmmm... I'm not sure what to say about the Soul/Mantle comments other than your pointing out that Uriel seemed to be able to differentiate between his Grace and his personhood(soul?) which is good evidence that they were separate.
13) Or did Uriel separate himself from his Grace on purpose, knowing that if he Fell, the Aeon/Mantle/Grace would remain unblemished, while only his mortal Soul would Fall? If so, is the issue with the Fallen that they didn't separate from their Aeon/Mantle/Grace before being corrupted? And is that corruption in both Soul and Grace, or only the Soul? And would both need to be redeemed, or only one? Clearly Uriel could separate from his Grace, but maybe he couldn't have separated Lucifer from his; its a decision of Self. That would mean that if the Soul of Lucifer decided to relinquish its hold on its higher level Aeon/Mantle/Grace, would that power be restored to the Lightside, and could it be re-assigned to a new Soul? A new Lucifer, on the side of good?Sorry, I've spent enough brain power on the angelic grace angle today... *fzut* *sputter* *kaput* overload, no more no more.
14) Taking it the other way, are the Outsiders upper level Aeons working without Souls, which is why they can't exist or interact with the mortal plane? They should be restricted from reality, and unable to work there, just like the other Aeons. But their nature is Chaos, from the other Pole, and therefore not following the rules is their natural state. So if they get through, they would be pure Aeons existing where they shouldn't?
Serack, how does your theory incorporate Odin's information from ch.21 of CD? From that, we get that parallel universes are created by splitting a "current" universe for all outcomes of an important decision. If we are going to have any kind of overarching theory of DV cosmology, we have to talk about time.
A mortal's Name can change over time due to how their perception of themselves can change, whereas most supernatural being's Name is static and unchanging.
This is a great theory / topic thread so far. I'm still parsing some of it.
However, I do have this question/thought though in relation to how the mortals spawn off new universes based on decisions (I couldn't find the exact wording, but I know it was based off of a WoJ).
However, we also know that (from Small Favor / copy-pasted from wiki) ....QuoteA mortal's Name can change over time due to how their perception of themselves can change, whereas most supernatural being's Name is static and unchanging.
Therefore, is this GUCMT have a side effect of how True Names for mortals persist, or can the True Names of mortals be used by the higher ups as a way of "routing" across the various universes (think like IP Addresses -- JB was an IT guy after all!)?
It's a bit of a side topic (/WAG-ish?) but I thought it an intriguing concept. I think it has other implications towards the plot of MM - but that's definitely a WAG.
@Serack
Could you give an example of what would disprove your theory? I don't really understand how to concretely apply it.
It seems to me that as long as the Church has some of the coins, those paerticular Denarians are neutralized. Doing a Mt Doom with the coins might free up the spirits housed within to act freely in the world.Well. Not quite freely, but MORE freely, certainly. The Fallen bound in the coins are the freaking elite of Hell--everyone the big D didn't want trying to stab him in the back, basically. If they were suddenly freed it would do all kinds of horrible things to about a million balances of power, with repercussions that would last for centuries.
Meant that the events surrounding The White Christ involved a major rearranging of power. If this happened without Free Will as a fulcrum, then I'd say that the theory collapses.
Wasn't the Sacrifice foretold in the Old Testament? If so, then that may collapse your theory, since Determination negates Free Will.
Wasn't the Sacrifice foretold in the Old Testament? If so, then that may collapse your theory, since Determination negates Free Will.
Not necessarily, since within the function of foretelling, you are conflating observation with dictation. That you see something occur (across time) does not have to mean that you are commanding it to occur.
I'm sure that those that care have a sufficiently strong counter argument for that in their arsenal, or find that to not be sufficiently strong enough to sway them.
I'd rather just let the point lie. It's a good point (both yours and his), that has been debated vigorously for millennia. I don't see it getting resolved in this topic...
Meh, I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in that discussion at all.
I'm sure that those that care have a sufficiently strong counter argument for that in their arsenal, or find that to not be sufficiently strong enough to sway them.
I'd rather just let the point lie. It's a good point (both yours and his), that has been debated vigorously for millennia. I don't see it getting resolved in this topic...
KG's George concepts are especially thought provoking. The main place where they break down for me is that one of "Edna's" 6 faces she uses to interface with Harry happens to be his apprentice of several years. However, I must say that it holds together pretty much as well as my vaunted "GUCMT"
For me, it works best because I feel as though the Mothers are indeed putting on a face when they interact with Harry in order for him to best understand with his limited perceptions what they are.
Edna is the whole being, but in Harry's reality she manifests as 6 Queens to interact with mortals that help her do her Job.The question, at least for me, is whether or not Hecate still exists in some form of higher awareness, or if Hecate ceased to exist in order to bring the six queens about.
How could Uriel only be 2,000 years old, and remember everything that happened before as if he were there? It would be as if an Aeon existed that entire time, but wasn't shaped until after Christianity gave him shape.
A way to look at this problem may be that a mantle carries the memories of the previous hosts, and that different pantheons are interpretations of a finite number of mantles. So Uriel may not have existed prior to the start of Judaism, but the mantle has existed prior to that, and so he remembers farther back than that through the mantle.But Uriel, of all of them, doesn't seem to recall being anything other than Uriel. Mab admits to being human once. Odin is a demi-god at best.
I'm not 100% sure I understand why the bolded portion gives you pause, but I'll try to clarify some more and you can let me know if I'm coming at it from the wrong angle.
Edna is the whole being, but in Harry's reality she manifests as 6 Queens to interact with mortals that help her do her Job. What Harry knows as the Queens is only a small portion of the true Edna. Think of Edna as the full entity/body. The Queens together might just be a hand (this is kind of a different way of describing Griff's Tree metaphor). In Harry's reality, a couple of Edna's fingers got infected, so the lopped them off to keep the entire hand from getting infected. However, Edna has sufficient power to "regenerate" her amputated fingers. This is obviously a metaphor for killing off the Nemesis-infected Queens and replacing them with new ones.
At first blush it seems a little too convenient to say Edna is so powerful she can just grow new digits, and that's why new Queens are made. But, if you think about it from the immutability standpoint, Edna /must/ have a full compliment of fingers because she, as the full being, cannot change. The only thing that can change is how Harry perceives her. However, in Harry's reality, he (and everyone in the know) perceives it as a law of nature that there are 6 Queens, so it /must/ be so that when one Queen dies another takes her place. Until some event takes place in Harry's reality that makes people start to believe the laws of nature/magic are changing such that there may no longer /have/ to be 6 Queens, there will always be 6 Queens. Over time the perception in Harry's reality might change, and Edna will manifest in that reality differently based on how mortal perception shifts. However, the full being that is Edna will not change.
So if there /must/ be 6 Queens in Harry's reality, then there /must/ be a mechanism to change who the Queens are, if needed. The Mantles are this mechanism. While I agree that it's pretty damned inconvenient for Molly to have received the Winter Lady Mantle, she made choices with her own Free Will that led to the circumstance. She wasn't fully drafted into the war against her will, but she didn't fully volunteer to serve, either. It's a weird grey area, but she made sufficient choices to open herself up to becoming a part of this interface system, and now she's got to deal with it. She's still Molly, to a degree, but the Mantle is also changing her some. She literally can't tell Harry when he asks about her new job, but she can use a cell phone. However, we have evidence that she will always retain a portion of her Free Will, because Maeve was slacking off on her job for 150 years. Unless we assume Maeve was infected for that length of time, we can deduce that she exercised Free Will in deciding not to do her job. This is similar to the way Mab can make Harry do some things, but she cannot make him /choose/ to do them. Free Will still exists in the being, but it might be a little more constrained by the Mantle.
I don't know if that addressed the issue that was bothering you or not, but I'm enjoying the conversation. Let me know if I got your concern all wrong and I'll regroup. :)
And please, no jokes about Edna's malformed, six-fingered hand! She's really quite sensitive about it. :P
at the end of the day it all adds up to Edna just doing her thing.
He could have always been an Aeon serving a higher Aeon that he sees as the Creator Aeon. But that would mean he isn't aware of there being a higher Aeon. Yet we know there are different branches of this theoretical pantheon/tree of Aeons. Does that mean his memory if flawed, or shaped to be that way by TWG of the Dresdenverse?
Q: Is there a qualitative difference in the Dresdenverse between Christian mythology and any other kind, or is it just a matter of scale?http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,41782.0.html
A: Let's see how to phrase this... I'm tempted to steal a line from [Cabinet??] “God hates when you call it mythology” … It's not just a matter of scale, it's a matter of where the books are taking place. Much of the story is focused in North America and in Western Europe where Christianity is the dominant religion ... which is not to say ... the way the Almighty in the Dresdenverse works is 'he's pretty cool, it's all of us who are stupid' so really there's a lot more crossover as far as someone with a viewpoint like Uriel, there's a lot more crossover between the religions than people who are on the planet think there is.
Generally speaking, mostly why other religions haven't come into it is because I'm not as well versed in them as I am in Christianity. I'm fairly sure I can do a reasonable portrayal of Christianity, I don't know if I can do as well with Islam because I don't know as much about it. I don't know if I can do as well with Hinduism because I don't know as much about it. I don't know as much about Buddhism … except that it's got a lot of really cool sayings. “No snowflake falls in the wrong place”
@Serack
As I'm ready through your, quite frankly, beautiful and elegant theory I came upon a rather interesting parallel between human beings in the DV and quantum level interactions. Specifically the thought experiment of Schrödinger's cat.
In this scenario mortals are the cat existing in a sort of quantum state of indecision and any direct observation from the TRULY "PCPs" would irreparably damage the "experiment". (Predestination / quantum locked reality) Thus in order to affect change it/they must act through smaller and smaller instruments (emanations) AND in a roundabout fashion, thus why so many higher beings act in "mysterious ways" and cannot take direct action, in order to make a desired outcome. Meanwhile we lowly humans existing in a indeterminate state afforded to us by our infinitesimally small "size" that WE perceive as "free will". Am I anywhere near the ballpark?
Hopefully, we will come up with... EUREKA I've got it!So now I have this picture of Mab and Tatiana glaring at you identically, saying in chorus "Are you saying my bottom quark looks big in this?" ???(click to show/hide)
I am way too pleased with myself right now.
No angel is able to disobey God due to the way God created angels. For this reason, Islam does not teach that Iblīs or Shayṭan (the Devil or Satan) was a fallen angel, rather he was one of the jinn.
I've been out for a while (Darth Real Life), and expect to be busy for a bit longer, but this thread is too interesting not to show it some love (so much so, that I'm writing this a second time after accidentally deleting my post !!@!@#).
This is serious headache-inducing stuff, so I will probably re-read everything again, but for now, a couple of points:
1) Serack pointed this out in the OP, but it bears repeating that while a dipole model is easy to visualize, there is no reason why there may not be more than two ultimate powers. Note that even in the Amberverse, there is arguably a third ultimate power by the end of the first series (though technically two of the powers are on the same side. Kinda).
2) I really liked KG's True Name == IP address theory. Consider how we are told how a mortal's True Name changes slowly by the decisions they make (and see Harry description of calling Elaine in WN), and how it parallels the creation of new universes by Free Will. Basically, the difference between the same individual in two difference universes is the Choices they made. Thus, their Names are ever-so-slightly different, and saying their name in a very particular manner will choose one or the other.
In fact, this may be how MM Harry is summoning his doubles. He basically summons himself but says his Name just a random tiny difference, so the spell summons one of his "nearby" clones.
3) I think Griffyn's point about Uriel giving up his Grace is important. It seems inconceivable to me that an Ultimate Power would risk so much just for a minor win in a single universe. If Michael had failed, and Uriel had Fallen, would he have Fallen across all universes? This seems a little crazy. If, on the other hand Uri himself is a local manifestation, then this is more plausible.
Note that it is very possible that Uri is common to multiple universes, just not *every* universe. Consider worlds in which the Arahamic religions arose in such a way that "Falling" worked with a diffent mechanic (heck, I don't think Judaism/Islam has the notion of a "Fallen Angel" -- this is only really a Christian thing). I don't think Uri Falling in our universe could affect Uri's manifestion in such a reality.
From wikipedia:
4) Further down this line of thought, I think we need to consider the entire WG "pantheon" (WG/Uri/Luci/etc.) as manifestation of a single entity -- no different than Summer/Winter.
Actually, here is anastycool twist (heheheheh):
We know that Mab has the job of protecting the Outer Gates while Titania protects humanity from Mab. In similar vein, perhaps it is Hell/Luci's job to protect Humanity from XXXXXXX (Nemesis?) while it is Heaven's job to protect humanity's Free Will from Hell? :o :o
5) I really like the Edna/cutting off finger analogy. It fits very nicely with the narrative as I see it. It also works well with the whole Oblivion thing. Basically, the whole war is about changing Humanity so that certain less-savory aspects cannot manifest. It would still be worth exploring the notion of imprisoning such power (Demonreach/Coins). If we hold that "the Fingers just regrow", then it seems hard to explain why putting such powers in a position where they can't affect the world is fundementally different from "Oblivion". It's also interesting to think of this in context of Halloween. On the one hand, it seems that Immortals can only be changed at specfic conjunctions. On the other hand, the power of mortal belief can change the mantle (apparently) continuesly. This may be accessing two different parts of the manifestation...
I'd really recommend reading C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy (http://www.csfriedman.com/category/novels/coldfire-trilogy/). One of the ideas behind her world building is a very logical (and coherently described) system where human belief actually shapes how the demons/elemental forces of the world work (it also has similarities to Furycrafting for Alera fans).
6) Another thing I thought I saw mentioned (by Serack?), but the whole "Conservation of History" is interesting. If you go back in time and change something, are you changing the same event in all the universes that spawned since then? If yes, then this possibly explains how it gets harder to change something the farther back/bigger it is. You are not only moving the tiller on your universe, but on countless others, making for a larger multimetawhatever mass to shift.
7) Finally, it seems (WoJ) that all these universes are somehow accessible through the Nevernever. If this means that there is only a single Nevernever -- essentially a vast ocean with isolated islands of "reality" floating around in it. I feel this could be an important point in the grand scheme of things, though I am unsure yet how.
As far as Uriel's grace is concerned, a new thought I've come up with is that Michael had violated it, he would have probably done so outside of the boundaries of his own home turf reality (I.E. on the other side of the NN veil in Hades). This could have had pretty huge ramifications on just how such a "Fall" would have shaken out.
works great for me
I'd like to think that Harry's concept of the "Nevernever" is about as nuanced as his early usage of the term "Demon"
Here's my latest take on the Power structure for the Dresdenverse. It breaks down as Aspects of Reality. Here, an Aspect is Reality itself, whereas an Avatar is the faith/belief manifestation of that Aspect.
EVERYTHING
In the beginning, there was EVERYTHING.
From sheer boredom, EVERYTHING then split into two: Order, and Chaos
ORDER(click to show/hide)
CHAOS(click to show/hide)
ASPECTS of ORDER(click to show/hide)
The Concept of Natural Aspects(click to show/hide)
Applying it Loosely to The Winter Queens(click to show/hide)
Applying it Loosely to Hecate(click to show/hide)
Why we'll never see Hecate(click to show/hide)
Basically. It wouldn't be a full two Earths trying to occupy the same space, but it'd be a massive part of Earth trying to occupy the same space as the real Earth.
Epic.
So, if I understood you, the reason we won't see "Earth" is because metaphysical "weight" would have to great an effect on reality? Like a magic black hole?
a table, made of a massive slab of rock, the legs made of more stones as think as the pillars at Stonehenge. Writing writhed across the surface of the stone, runes that looked a little familiar. Norse, maybe? Some of them looked more like Egyptian. They seemed to take something from several different sources, leaving them unreadable. Lightning flashed again through the ground, and a wave of blue-white light flooded over the table, through the runes, lighting them like Las Vegas neon for a moment.
[/snip]
I stepped toward the Table and extended a hand. The air around it literally shook, pressing against my fingers, making my skin ripple visibly as though against a strong wind -- but I felt nothing. I touched the surface of the Table itself, and could feel the power in it buzzing through the flowing runes like electricity through high-voltage cables. The sensation engulfed my hand with sudden heat and violence, and I jerked my fingers back. They were numb, and the nails of the two that had touched the table were blackened at the edges. Wisps of smoke rose from them.
Quote5. cowl with darkhallow - really? just a bunch of spirits...If he'd succeeded, he'd have had the collective power of all of those supernatural beings and then some. He'd have been clearly stronger than the Ladies, and a full-on equal to Mab. I mean, why do you think the Erlking was summoned as part of that ritual? Because that's how the big E got so boss in the first place.
For that matter, how do you think the Mothers and Queens and Ladies established their original base of power? That big old sacrificial, power-sucking stone table in Tir na noth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%ADr_na_n%C3%93g) isn't there for its primitive decorative aesthetic.
=Summer Knight Ch. 23]It was power that had existed since the dawn of life, and would until its end. It was power that had cowed mortals into abject worship and terror before – and I finally understood why. I wasn’t a pawn of that kind of strength. I was an insect beside giants, a blade of grass before towering trees.
And there was a dreadful attraction in seeing that power, something in it that called to the magic in me, like to like, made me want to hurl myself into those flames, into that endless, icy cold. Moths look at bug zappers like I looked at the Queens of Faerie.