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Messages - Mira

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DF Spoilers / Re: Great another starborn theory, this time with vampires

« on: January 23, 2024, 01:42:26 PM »

Hasn't Harry already come back? At the end of Changes when he was shot, he was mostly dead, very close to all dead.. He was already Winter Knight when he took that bullet through the heart, would have died then and there on the deck, but fell into the very cold lake before he bled out and into Mab's arms. Hmmm... Wonder if Uriel had anything to do with him stumbling over the side into the water after he was shot?

Yes, I agree, Uriel has had a lot to do with preparing Harry for what is to come. That was the whole point of the risky soul walk about, and Harry came back with a better understanding of what soul fire really is as we saw in Cold Days. He also learned how to keep the darker impulses of the Winter Knight mantle under control. However the White Council doesn't know any of this, they are asking the same question you are asking, except not what will come back with him if he dies again, but what came back with him this last time when he "died."

I think Mab's reasons for wanting Molly dead if she dies are a bit different. Mab is a control freak, and she feels that Molly isn't on the same page as she is.

DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.

« on: January 20, 2024, 06:39:00 PM »

Quote from: raidem on January 20, 2024, 05:41:09 PM

Or, she appears as an already on scene Immortal...Mab via one from alternate reality, past, present or future. We do have WOJ that Mab can speak with the other Mabs in the multiverse though they really are too busy to bother.

But Einherjar are not considered immortal.. According to Google and I just looked it up.

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The Einherjar are specially honored dead. They are not immortals in the sense that they live forever, but the most honored of spirits who get special treatment in the afterlife. Most religions have such people, like the honored Greek dead who go to Elysium.

DF Spoilers / Re: ebenezer didn't look for harry

« on: January 16, 2024, 03:14:02 PM »

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Lea makes a deal with Margarite LeFay to protect Harry, then while still fulfilling her given word, either allows Harry's father to be murdered or does it herself as part of a deal with Justin DuMorne. DuMorne thinks he has won a great prize but Lea has simply offloaded the drudge work of teaching Harry basic magic skills until she can find a way to dispose of Justin. A break between Justin and Harry (Did Lea have anything to do with that? Meaning, did she have another deal with whoever summoned HWWB?) allows Lea to get Harry to remove Justin for her and to top everything off, it allows Lea to make a binding deal with a young, desperate and naïve, starborn wizard Harry.

I think you give Lea too much credit for preplanning young Harry's life. I think the original mistake was made by Margaret when she made the bargain to protect her baby in the first place. The mistake was believing that the Fae would understand fully the ways of humans. Since she was human once, Mab has this understanding, but Lea was born a Fae I believe. Early in the books we discover her ways of "protecting" Harry are a bit odd, like wanting to turn him into one of her hounds for example. I don't believe she "threatened" this out of malice as Harry thought, but because of her misunderstanding of human thinking she actually thought it was a good way to protect him.

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P.S. New topic on the same character. Thinking back to the dénouement of the Battle of Chicken Pizza in Changes, Ebenezer approaches Harry and Lea and asks her to leave so he can discus "family business" with Harry. Ebenezer knew who Lea was and he knew that she knew about Eb and Harry's familial relationship.

It is one thing for Ebenezer to recognize The Leanansidhe; Lea is a very powerful figure in the Winter Court and Ebenezer has been around long enough to have had some experience with the fae, but as was pointed out in Battle Ground, Eb doesn't believe in casually dropping any information about anything, especially family. Even if Eb guessed that Lea knew that Eb was Harry's grandfather, he still wouldn't have mentioned it, he might have said something like "White Council business" instead.

Yet he must have known that Lea was Harry's godmother, thus knew about Margaret and I bet his connection. He also had to be aware that one of the main reasons for Harry's success in the mission was Mab's help when no one else was willing to help him take on the Red Court. I think the reason for Eb wanting to talk to Harry out of Lea's earshot was his reassurance to Harry that even though he was now Mab's Winter Knight, he still had free will and could use his own judgement when Mab ordered him to do something he thought was wrong.

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Did Ebenezer make his own deal with Lea? I'm not speculating what such a deal might have involved, but those two know each other and not just by reputation. It suggests something more is going on here and perhaps something important.

I agree that there is a lot more to the original bargain, also that it will play a critical role in future events.

DF Spoilers / Re: Skin Game

« on: January 16, 2024, 02:50:51 PM »

Quote from: Yuillegan on January 16, 2024, 05:55:51 AM

Great post EBRIEN! Love the positivity - and I agree, Butters has really developed from a bit of a goofy comic relief character into an intriguing and courageous character, who is prepared to call Harry out even when Harry has trouble seeing what is right and wrong.

Yes, Butters has always been one of my favorite characters. Actually one who has been shown to lack perception, is Thomas, in his judgement of people, or maybe vanilla humans. Butters never was a coward as I think Harry recognized from the time he met him. Butters stood up for truth and was willing to pay the price for it from the beginning when he wouldn't lie about his autopsy findings. There are more ways to show courage than just the physical, that's why he eventually was chosen as a Holy Knight and fits in well with the likes of Michael, Sanya, and Shiro.

DF Spoilers / Re: The Mother's Cottage

« on: January 08, 2024, 01:51:27 PM »

Quote from: Avernite on January 07, 2024, 09:29:18 AM

Maybe it's seasonal decorations. It's summer's time of power so it's winter's time to decorate.

This^

DF Spoilers / Re: So… Bob’s a Castle now?

« on: January 08, 2024, 01:50:28 PM »

I don't know if there really is a "safe" vessel for Bob. The skull is his home, possession of it supposedly gives the holder of it some authority over the spirit that is known as Bob. However what happens if the skull is destroyed? Can the skull be destroyed? Bob has romped about on missions before riding Mister on Harry's behalf, also gotten into trouble because he was free to roam. Mister isn't a vessel yet presumably Bob was safe as long as he came home before dawn. At the moment Bob is given freedom of the castle because Harry is still trying to understand it's wards, but I don't think it makes it home for Bob, the skull is still his home.

DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?

« on: January 04, 2024, 07:07:02 PM »

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Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« Reply #35 on: Today at 06:15:38 PM »

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Quote from: Mira on Today at 01:00:10 PM

It might have been Summer Knight when Mab took on Harry's "contract" with Lea. The three favors he owed her for the "confidence" she gave him when he was sixteen to take on Justin. Mab knew that what Lea did was mostly song and dance and that it is no small thing that a sixteen year old apprentice can take on, defeat and kill a fully trained warden of the White Council.

I think you are reading more significance into my statement "We don't know how Mab's intelligence network works." than is actually there. All I am saying is we don't know if Mab had her own spies watching various starborn mortals and one of them reported to her about Harry's confrontation with Justin or if Mab had a conversation with Lea and asked her about the starborn mortal Lea was working with or if the Winter Queen has some kind of intellectus that keeps her informed about Lea's plans. To simply my original statement, what I am really saying is, it is not important how Mab learned about Harry, only that at some point she became interested in taking the time to watch Harry in action.

No, I don't think I am, I'm following up on your comment that Mab waits until it's to her advantage to make her move. I think it is important as to how Mab learned about Harry, I think she knew about him even before his actual conception, star born family planning. However I believe she washed her hands of everything until the baby developed into a man. Interesting don't you think that though Lea secured that bargain with sixteen year old Harry, no action was taken for repayment until Mab had need of him, then she took over the contract at the beginning of Summer Knight. After further observing his work, which included unusually the loyalty of some of the wee Fae Folk, then she began to lean rather heavily on Harry for payment, also mentioning that she wanted him as her Winter Knight. Note that she was also willing to go without a Knight for a number of years until she got what she wanted. In other words Mab doesn't pick the apple off the tree until it is ripe and ready for picking.. She also is careful to look for worms in the apple..

DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?

« on: January 04, 2024, 01:00:10 PM »

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We don't know how Mab's intelligence network works. Specifically, we don't know how Mab became aware of Lea's involvement with Margaret LeFay and her son. We only know that at some point Mab became interested in seeing Harry in action, to make her own judgement about his potential.

It might have been Summer Knight when Mab took on Harry's "contract" with Lea. The three favors he owed her for the "confidence" she gave him when he was sixteen to take on Justin. Mab knew that what Lea did was mostly song and dance and that it is no small thing that a sixteen year old apprentice can take on, defeat and kill a fully trained warden of the White Council.

DF Spoilers / Re: ebenezer didn't look for harry

« on: January 04, 2024, 12:52:30 PM »

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In my version of events Lea knew exactly what kind of person Justin was; even if the White Council didn't know, or fully know, about Justin. She always planned to turn on him at the first opportunity and gain the use of Harry's abilities for herself. Justin probably never realized that Lea had been training Harry; apparently to just believe in himself, when Harry returned to face him. It's a series of moves that the White Court of Vampires would approve of.

What would the White Court of Vampires have to do with Lea and Justin? Yes, Lord Raith murdered Harry's mother, but I don't see any evidence that he had anything to do with either Lea or Justin.

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DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.

« on: January 03, 2024, 06:13:46 PM »

Quote from: vincentric on January 03, 2024, 04:29:34 PM

Well, in Battle Ground, Murphy is able to do the things she does because of the magical boost she's getting from Mab. Bob explains it to Harry and even holds up Murphy as an example of how it's working. If Murphy had survived Rudolph, I suspect she would have been left in charge to hold the impromptu fortress while Sanya, Butters and Harry went to ambush the Formor.

That was before the boost.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?

« on: January 03, 2024, 03:15:24 PM »

Except if you look at Harry's style, he still uses rings, bracelets, firing rods etc.. It was even truer when he was younger, Justin would know that.

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DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.

« on: January 03, 2024, 05:52:46 AM »

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She was an extremely-advanced martial-arts practitioner; many of them are startlingly-competent.

She had limits, Nic wiped the curb with her.. Then she removes her own casts, one minute she can barely walk, the next she manages to surprise and take down a Valkyrie?

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I personally knew a "Murphy"-like person -- cute, small, blonde, senior aikidoka. Nice lady, and when she came at you seriously she was the scariest person I've ever met (this with years of karate behind me). I have literally seen another black-belt take a glance at her then turn and run away, on the mat!

Maybe when she was physically whole and in shape, but as of Peace Talks and Battle Ground Murphy wasn't. Even if she were in splints and doing physical therapy all along after Nic got done with her... She apparently wasn't because she had to cut her cast off, if you have ever worn a cast for a time or recovered in splints after orthopedic surgery, you know the limb doesn't instantly recover, even if you are doing physical therapy all along..

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When Murphy added the Sword at Chichén Itzá... yes, that turned her dial up to "11," and I liked it -- for her character, for the story -- that she decided to put the Sword back down again, afterwards. The post-Changes Murphy was back to being a mortal, not Supermurphy; but she was much more being stretched to her limits, and barely-keeping-up. Before that, with a couple of exceptions (vs the Nightmare & vs. Papa Raith), Murphy was mostly on top of even the supernatural situations.

Which just wasn't realistic even for a fantasy.

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From the high-fantasy action-adventure aspect of the Casefiles, Murphy was no longer a "viable" adventuring character to accompany Harry.

Which Murphy should never have been to begin with in my opinion. When we first meet her, smart, strong,a good shot and martial artist, she didn't need to become an action-adventure figure to be compelling. Michael doesn't need any super human abilities, he had a Holy Sword, but he does pretty good without that.

Actually when you think of it, Murphy's actions was really a form of suicide. With her injuries she wasn't up to really fighting any pitched physical battles, and actually could have made things worse had Harry been distracted trying to protect her. Yes, she caught a bullet from a paranoid cop and died, and did manage to take out a giant with a bazooka before she died, but in the later physical battles where even the likes of Odin and Mab barely made it, she wouldn't have survived. Yes, hard to stay behind at Mac's place to protect the people there, but Harry wasn't being over protective of her in doing that. Actually it was her ego once again that she knew better, so she failed to follow orders, that's what got her killed.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?

« on: January 02, 2024, 10:00:36 PM »

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Cite please? I recall it as Harry getting home from a normal school-day, not that he had cut class. But maybe I misremember.

Ghost Story page 267

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I never suspected a thing about what he really wanted,until the day Elaine stayed home sick. Concerned about her, I skipped my last class and came home early. The house seemed too quiet, and an energy I had never sensed before hung in the air like cloying perfume.

Further down on the same page Harry says he now knows that Justin had put a "mental whammy" on Elaine.
Next page more interesting;

Justin says

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"You skipped class again." He sighed. "I should have seen that coming."

This implies that Justin was surprised that Harry came home when he did.. However further down after Justin speaks about needing people he can trust, Harry notices something..

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Their expressions gave me nothing. That was when my eyes fell to the coffee table and to the object lying quietly next to my well-mauled copy of The Hobbit.
A straightjacket.

This implies to me at any rate that Justin wasn't really surprised that Harry skipped class.. He was ready for him.

Then on page 269 rereading just now is a really strange sentence;

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"Boy!" Justin said, projecting his voice loudly. I looked over my shoulder at him as I ran. His eyes were more coldly furious than I had ever seen them. "You are here with me--with Elaine. Or you are nowhere. If you don't come back right now, you are dead to me"

The "nowhere" in italics are Jim's not mine. Now it could be that Justin was super confident that Elaine was with him because he had enthralled her... Or it really was a planned act to get Harry from the get go, and him coming home early broke up their plans before they were ready for him.

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Does it matter (why does it matter) whether Justin had been planning for Harry to get home early, or just get home at the regular time?

I think it does matter, Harry completely trusted both Elaine and Justin, so under some pretense they may have been able to trick him into the straightjack or otherwise put the mental whammy on him. Harry says he never suspected anything, but by coming home early he walked right into the middle of Justin's application of black magic, though at that moment he didn't know what he was sensing, except that it wasn't good for him. An hour or two later, especially since at that moment Harry didn't know he was sensing black magic, Harry may not of realized that something was very wrong and that he was in danger.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?

« on: January 02, 2024, 03:29:23 PM »

Quote from: g33k on January 02, 2024, 06:00:42 AM

I think Harry&Elaine were (largely) being taught together.
They certainly shared a lot of homework assignments!

I'm sure there were some lessons specific to each of them, while the other did bookwork &c. Their respective strengths and weaknesses differ, after all (not that we know a lot about Elaine's, but we see their preferred methods aren't identical).

I presume Elaine got largely-similar treatment to what Harry got; if Justin was notably harder or easier on her, we'd have heard about it by this time: it's the sort of thing kids remember even into adulthood.

However at this point, we don't know.. The subjects taught might have been the same so that homework assignments can be worked on together.. However if the slant on that same subject is a bit different, the outcome can be different. Also we presume it was magical homework they shared, it could have been a math assignment from school. For some reason Justin attempted to enthrall Elaine first, if she was in fact enthralled. Target of opportunity? As he taught them did he find her more vulnerable? Here is another thing that really doesn't add up.. Supposedly Elaine stayed home from school that day because she was sick.. Harry cut class to return home to be with her.. Where did Harry think Justin would be during this? Did Justin have some kind of day job? Was Justin so involved with his magical research that he wouldn't notice that Harry cut school? Did Justin even care if Harry cut school? Apparently it was no surprise that Harry would cut school, Justin and "enthralled Elaine" were waiting for him with a straight jacket.. The point I am getting at is, Justin counted on Harry cutting class and coming home when he did, and then trapping him. Would he have attempted it if Harry had not cut class that day?

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DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.

« on: January 02, 2024, 02:38:56 PM »

Quote from: g33k on January 02, 2024, 06:05:58 AM

Murphy had to die (or maybe "die").
She was just a mortal, and Harry was moving further and further up the supernatural food-chain. She could do amazing stuff against Valkyries, Whampires, etc... But put against something like a Naagloshii, she'd be d-e-d dead.

Which kind of goes back to my original point about Murphy, what was originally appealing about her in my opinion, was her mortality. The amazing stuff she was able to do stopped being believable, she became Bruce Lee on steroids, Annie Oakley with a high powered scope, all with a higher IQ than Einstein. So now that she is dead...

Can she be considered a higher functioning "zombie" now? Is that what an Einherjar is? Does she still have free will since she is now one of Odin's Einherjar? Supposedly she won't return until she has passed out of living memory, but what of her memory? Imagine Harry's pain if she is brought back and he knows her, but she has no clue of who he is or cares..

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