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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: vultur on August 01, 2020, 10:07:43 AM
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I'm really surprised by how powerful Ethniu is.
If she was there all along, why did the Fomor have to wait for the power vacuum after the fall of the Red Court? I had kind of figured that meant they were weaker than the Red Court, White Council, etc.
But if Ethniu is significantly stronger than Mab, she could have just killed off the Red Court personally anytime she felt like it, if she wanted the Fomor to have more territory/power.
It also seems odd that the rest of the major god-like beings are 'retired' in some way or constrained from acting in the mortal world (by their natures?), but Ethniu can just come in and declare war on Chicago.
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We still don't know what she wanted all those minor talents for. She could have had herself a great big meal before showing off in Chicago for all we know.
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It might not have been her decision if she is infected.
The stars are getting close but the time is not completely there for the outsiders. They are still softening things up.
They are not at their strongest yet and Ethniu might be weaker than she looks as Marcone suggested.
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🤔 she might be infected yes... I realize her attitude matches an old theory I had on Nemesis despising Humanity for taking over the balance.. and now Ethniu is behaving very similar.
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To create splits in the Accord nations and create defections. They might have been expecting the White Court to join them, or Marcone to withdraw, or Ferro.
All they got was the Ghouls, nobody likes the Ghouls. “Bah”, said Corb, “all we got was the Ghouls, do you know how much they need to eat? And the smell!” He said raising a perfumed handkerchief to his toadlike face. “Pure muscle, and no magic”
Marcone was probably a miscalculation, they assumed a mere mortal would fold. The White Court, maybe under Papa Raith, but less likely so under a distracted Lara, unless there is a coup going on in the background at the White Court. The former makes it more likely Thomas is not being used by the Black Council, the latter does.
If as posited they had already split off Drakul this makes sense, building an alliance to take on the mortals. The White Court would be singularly used in undermining mortal leadership with their sexual favours, although to be fair they seem to slip up sexually enough on their own.
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She may have been eating low lever practitioners and taking their magic to bolster her power and doesn't have deep reserves. And she's running a game and trying to pull off some kind of ascension ritual. Everybody is acting weird and it's either poor writing or something not yet revealed.
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She has to power Balor’s eye, she might only have a limited number of shots before it has to be recharged, if she had infinite shots she could level Chicago on her own.
Please have Harry distract her by blowing up a bottle of hot sauce right next to her eye.
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They waited because they wanted their job to be as easy as possible. Why invade when the Red Court is capable of taking out a lot of their enemy? Remember, I believe it was at the end of Dead Beat when Harry told Morgan that he believed that the Red Court among others were mere cat's paws for a bigger power? When Harry took out the Red Court, it did nothing to weaken the Fomor, however the White Council was weakened in their war with the Reds.
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She may have been eating low lever practitioners and taking their magic to bolster her power and doesn't have deep reserves. And she's running a game and trying to pull off some kind of ascension ritual. Everybody is acting weird and it's either poor writing or something not yet revealed.
human magic has a little slice of thing we call free will to it... If they eat practitioners for it... Why, it'd give them the ability to hex things like mortal wizards with particular effectiveness
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Flip the question around.
She's a multi-thousand-year-old immortal -- what's the rush?
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Flip the question around.
She's a multi-thousand-year-old immortal -- what's the rush?
Indeed, plus getting other groups to soften things up just made her job easier.. One gets smart after a couple of thousand years.. ::)
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She thinks she waited for everyone to be weakened and softened up for her attack. Meanwhile, the Outsiders are using her to weaken and soften up everyone for their attack.
It's a vicious cycle.
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And in Battle Ground, Ethniu will learn that she's been handily outmaneuvered.
Lots of wild speculation:
- Mab is at the Outer Gates. Lea is "standing in" for Mab at the Peace Talks, in disguise. (I didn't notice a single mention of Chicago having unseasonably cold weather -- which we've always gotten before, when Mab's in town.)
- Similarly, the Gatekeeper is at the Outer Gates, while someone pretends to be him at the White Council meeting that Harry is missing.
- Molly's brought a small army of Leshiye (shapeshifting wood fae) into Chicago disguised as mortals and using mortal transport, so as not to alert the fomor.
- Vadderung has a much larger force in reserve than he's letting on.
- The Svartalves brought in a bunch of reinforcement from other enclaves, in reaction to the assassination attempt.
- Lara's new magical security is hiding a much larger force than she's letting on -- both vampires and mercenaries (Monoc or mortal or both).
- The Archive is ready to give Harry Ethniu's true name, as a part of her Oblivion War Purpose.
- Harry's got access to Weapons that the fomor have no way of realizing he has, thanks to Mab's last big scheme.
Unfortunately, a bunch of heavyweights are going to come in on the other side, too -- Drakul, Mavra, Cowl, Evil Bob, the Genoskwa, Shagnasty...
And I've got no idea which side Titania and the Erlking will be on. If Titania is compromised or just still angry at Harry and Mab, who knows what she might do.
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You missed Harry is going to sneeze out a T-Rex (that will be a nice surprise for the Genowskwa). “The best defence is a T-Rex” Harry Dresden, Peace Talks. This version of Sue will be able to do the Dino Serenade though.
The Erlking is Wild Faye immensely dangerous and not an Accords Member, it would require a real idiot to summon the Erlk..... oh never mind. Harry is an accredited leader of the Wild Hunt since Cold Days, he could summon them and lead them into battle, especially riding Sue.
A goblin army would be nice, it would be good PR after the Lord of the Rings etc and Chicago FBI is a Never Never portal to Erl’s Hall, it one of the places Odin wouldn’t need to guard, indeed I would leave that as a breach in the defences for the Fomor to try to get through, the goblins would enjoy it, the Fomor, not so much.
The archive will only know Ethnui’s true name if it was written down with all the correct pronunciation points. It will be interesting to see how she interacts with the Placard though.
The Swartalves are providing weapons, not manpower, so I wouldn’t rely on them unless they give Hendricks Mjolnir and it turns out he is Thor, amnesiac from playing far too much college football (he has the Beard now). He will never finish his thesis now if that is the case.
Harry will create a rapprochement between Titania and Mab, by making them so angry at him they agree for the first time since 1066
Titania is not at the Peace Talks which also bodes that it is Lea posing as Mab
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I definitely expect to see Sue, but I doubt even Mab will have planned for that. :)
I'd love to see what happens if Harry uses soulfire to stabilize Sue -- I'm thinking he might get a permanent T-rex mount. I'm suddenly wondering how deep Lake Michigan gets between Chicago and Demonreach...
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One sneeze and they all will drown in a gigantic puddle of viscus snot... Then vanish along with the snot... It will be explained as a freak storm brought on by climate change. ::)
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I definitely expect to see Sue, but I doubt even Mab will have planned for that. :)
I'd love to see what happens if Harry uses soulfire to stabilize Sue -- I'm thinking he might get a permanent T-rex mount. I'm suddenly wondering how deep Lake Michigan gets between Chicago and Demonreach...
Harry blows a horn at the shores of the lake for every Wild Hunt...
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/41a547c8-e635-41f7-9316-24b470d9b7a9/d4hu0bh-7dd49d07-b665-4352-8a04-081177b3a167.png/v1/fill/w_900,h_592,q_80,strp/water_t_rex_by_ragnaros100_d4hu0bh-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3siaGVpZ2h0IjoiPD01OTIiLCJwYXRoIjoiXC9mXC80MWE1NDdjOC1lNjM1LTQxZjctOTMxNi0yNGI0NzBkOWI3YTlcL2Q0aHUwYmgtN2RkNDlkMDctYjY2NS00MzUyLThhMDQtMDgxMTc3YjNhMTY3LnBuZyIsIndpZHRoIjoiPD05MDAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.J8XfERgyMqV0Y_jXLyXDGMui6qyj2aLr2ronAF7YYoU)
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I did posit the Conjouritis is a deus ex machina for bringing back Sue, and yes on the Soulfire I had already set that out on another thread, otherwise he has to keep powering up the ectoplasm. Harry does have a penchant for outsize pets. No drummer needed on this incarnation I suspect, not a zombie.
Sadly I don’t think Demonreach has enough Deer to keep Sue fed, so it is probably the Zoo.
And yes there will be footage of Harry riding Sue into battle.
Sue is a female so she should be able to lay clone eggs like the Komodo dragons, which if she has been eating normal matter (fomorians) should be viable non-ectoplasm. Harry puts a bit too much soulfire into Sue she lasts for months, not hours, eventually collapsing into a huge pile of ectoplasm and a viable egg. “Life finds a way” and Little Sue is part of the real world, and is Harry’s third daughter. With Bonea as well it is going to make “the talk” with Maggie interesting. “When a man loves a half vampire/fallen angel/dinosaur very much......”
Hey Jim has riffed on Star Wars, why not Jurassic Park?
At the very least you will get an urban myth that in times of trouble Sue rises up as protector of Chicago. Being ridden by an tall idiot with a stick.
Come to think of it Bob possessed Zombie Sue at one point, so either he or Bonea could possess Sue this time.
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I did posit the Conjouritis is a deus ex machina for bringing back Sue, and yes on the Soulfire I had already set that out on another thread, otherwise he has to keep powering up the ectoplasm. Harry does have a penchant for outsize pets. No drummer needed on this incarnation I suspect, not a zombie.
It would have to be the soul fire, because a Conjouritis manifestation would disappear in an hour or less.
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I think we are agreed that the best way of retaining a T-Rex conjured by a sneeze is through a slice of ones soul.
It will be really, really annoying if Jim passes up this opportunity, and ends up having Harry zipping around Chicago on a bicycle.
Ethnui “look at my pet toad king”
Harry “look at my pet lizard king, oh it’s eaten your pet toad king, bad Sue, oh, Sue’s lifting you up in the air by the leash, it looks like you have been hoist by your own pet toad”
I never apologise for a pun.
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To create splits in the Accord nations and create defections. They might have been expecting the White Court to join them, or Marcone to withdraw, or Ferro.
Yeah, that's true. They needed a big shift in the political balance of power to get everyone in one place so Ethniu could demonstrate Mab's incapacity to enforce the Accords.
But I guess what I'm wondering is... if they've got someone as powerful as Ethniu on their side, why weren't the Fomor always a major political power?
She has to power Balor’s eye, she might only have a limited number of shots before it has to be recharged, if she had infinite shots she could level Chicago on her own.
Harry seems to think she could (actually, he worries that Ethniu might be able to take on all of humanity).
I think the limitation on the Eye of Balor is going to be "charge-up time". As Harry says to Murphy, mythologically Balor's Eye got more and more deadly as more shields/covers/eyelids (it varies) were removed.
Probably the big tech-hex we saw in PT is the first level. It'll probably get worse, and Harry and the Knights and maybe Eb and some other "heavy-hitters" are going to have to attack Ethniu before she can charge it up to full nuclear-blast level.
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But I guess what I'm wondering is... if they've got someone as powerful as Ethniu on their side, why weren't the Fomor always a major political power?
Perhaps the mass-kidnapped minor talents were sacrifices to wake Ethniu up?
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Ethniu's apparent objective was to rile up mortal humanity. After this is accomplished, they attack any supernatural foe they can find. This could have been done at ant time, but not optimally.
If this was done with the Accords structure in place, there would be the potential for a coordinated response by the various nations. They would presumably go into damage control mode and try to parley the situation. Elements with mortal guises, like Vadderung would be the reasonable starting point. The endgame for the Fomor is not as clear in that situation...especially if the rest of the Accords nations painted a nice big 'kick me here' sign on Fomor strongholds for mortals to punch at.
But if the Accords are killed off, chaos reigns. Everyone is on their own fighting essentially the whole mortal world, and even if a given faction could come to terms (a rather long-term prospect at best with the best contacts in chaos), it would mean little to the overall situation the rest would be in.
Meanwhile, the Fomor have the initiative, and the advantage.
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It's not clear, yet, what Ethniu's actual objective is, other than discrediting Mab.
The idea that the fomor might just rile up humanity and then retreat back into the sea to laugh while the mortal world panics and hunts down ghouls and vampires is a graphic image that Vadderung and Ferrovax put out there to get the panicking Accords delegates to come together. It's not necessarily Ethniu's plan.
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It is undermine the defence of the gates, by forcing a split in Mab’s attention.
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Sure, but is Ethniu's goal to accomplish something on Earth while Mab is distracted by the attack at the Gates? Or is her goal to distract Mab so that the Outsiders can breach the Gates and end reality?
I'm assuming it's the former, but then it's unclear what she actually wants to accomplish.
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Sure, but is Ethniu's goal to accomplish something on Earth while Mab is distracted by the attack at the Gates? Or is her goal to distract Mab so that the Outsiders can breach the Gates and end reality?
I'm assuming it's the former, but then it's unclear what she actually wants to accomplish.
That is why her Knight is going to defend Chicago, so Mab can be at the Gates.. I also think Titania and Sarrissa will join her there. Molly might remain in Chicago to help Harry.
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That is why her Knight is going to defend Chicago, so Mab can be at the Gates.. I also think Titania and Sarrissa will join her there. Molly might remain in Chicago to help Harry.
Molly certainly. Sarissa probably. Titania no.
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Mab got spanked in front of the Accords. If she goes to the Gates I'll eat Harrys hat. She'll be out for blood.
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- Mab is at the Outer Gates. Lea is "standing in" for Mab at the Peace Talks, in disguise. (I didn't notice a single mention of Chicago having unseasonably cold weather -- which we've always gotten before, when Mab's in town.)
Ooo, I like this. Make them overconfident, thinking they put a beat down on Mab, when it's just Lea. A very Mab-ish plan.
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I don't think Lea can be standing in for Mab while Mab handles the Gates in disguise as Lea, though it's a great idea.
She says that "my second" informed her about the Gate. Lea is Mab's second, but if Mab and Lea had swapped identities, I think the Faerie inability to lie would keep Lea from describing Mab that way. She would have had to say something like "our commander on site"...
Now maybe Lea has her own "second" but... Also, Corb seems to have actually angered Mab with references to her mortal life.
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Molly certainly. Sarissa probably. Titania no.
Yeah, I think Titania will continue to do nothing useful.
Molly will surely be involved, and I guess her "personal guard" or "retinue" or whatever, though the rest of Winter (except Harry) is occupied at the Gates.
It is undermine the defence of the gates, by forcing a split in Mab’s attention.
I don't know. I kind of think that Ethniu is using the Outsider attack to distract Winter from her plans, rather than vice versa.
But I guess the larger question is... given that Mab's Purpose is defense of reality against the Outside, how do the Accords benefit that? And why are they needed "now" - it seems like the Accords are a relatively recent innovation?
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She says that "my second" informed her about the Gate. Lea is Mab's second, but if Mab and Lea had swapped identities, I think the Faerie inability to lie would keep Lea from describing Mab that way. She would have had to say something like "our commander on site"...
Yes, but couldn't Rashid be considered more so? I mean we learned in Cold Days that he is more or less the general in charge of the defense of the Gates.
Yeah, I think Titania will continue to do nothing useful.
I think you are wrong there, Summer is Winter's back up, if the Outsiders breech the Gates she stands to lose as well.
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Winter are the CIA and Summer the FBI, summer is a fraction of the size of Winter as regards it’s military force, Titania can’t add significantly to the defence of Chicago as regards manpower, but may attend if told that there is a significant chance that Harry Dresden may die horribly, it would cheer her up enormously and clearly something she wouldn’t want to miss.
As I have have had said previously that Harry gets Mab and Titania to agree on something for the first time since 1066 through both of them being furious with him. Harry acheives his aims his way, not necessarily the Fae way.
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I don't think Lea can be standing in for Mab while Mab handles the Gates in disguise as Lea, though it's a great idea.
She says that "my second" informed her about the Gate. Lea is Mab's second, but if Mab and Lea had swapped identities, I think the Faerie inability to lie would keep Lea from describing Mab that way. She would have had to say something like "our commander on site"...
Now maybe Lea has her own "second" but... Also, Corb seems to have actually angered Mab with references to her mortal life.
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Yeah, I think Titania will continue to do nothing useful.
Molly will surely be involved, and I guess her "personal guard" or "retinue" or whatever, though the rest of Winter (except Harry) is occupied at the Gates.
I don't know. I kind of think that Ethniu is using the Outsider attack to distract Winter from her plans, rather than vice versa.
But I guess the larger question is... given that Mab's Purpose is defense of reality against the Outside, how do the Accords benefit that? And why are they needed "now" - it seems like the Accords are a relatively recent innovation?
The outsider threat is increasing as the stars are getting right. Nemesis is trying to destabilise this reality behind winters lines. The accords are one way of working against that. It is already working with Ethniu, Mab gets allies against her she would not have without the accords. And whether Ethniu is infected or thinks she can use them the outsiders want the accords dissolved, that is the reason Ethniu does not just attack without first getting them together.
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The Erlking is Wild Faye immensely dangerous and not an Accords Member, it would require a real idiot to summon the Erlk..... oh never mind. Harry is an accredited leader of the Wild Hunt since Cold Days, he could summon them and lead them into battle, especially riding Sue.
Wait, where are you getting that the Erlking isn't on the Accords? He certainly seemed to be from Changes and Cold Days.
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Wait, where are you getting that the Erlking isn't on the Accords? He certainly seemed to be from Changes and Cold Days.
In Changes Guest right pre-dates the Accords, and applies to pretty much the entire Never Never, not just the Accorded Nations. Erl refers to Harry as an unexpected guest, and Harry seizes upon that to his advantage.
In Cold days Erl is a guest of Mab, it’s a chance for him to catch up on people he normally doesn’t get much opportunity to meet, Kringle/Odin is the same.
This is why Erl isn’t present at the Peace Talks, not Accorded nor invited under Guest right. River Shoulders isn’t Accorded yet, but is there under Guest Right, it is most gracious for River to help defend his host.
Odin is guarding the Never Never from incursion by the Fomor, if he has any sense he will leave a gap on the FBI building which leads to the ErlKings Hall, see if the Fomor or their allies are foolhardy enough to disturb the Goblins. The will NOT be guests.
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Yes, but couldn't Rashid be considered more so? I mean we learned in Cold Days that he is more or less the general in charge of the defense of the Gates.
I don't think he could really be considered Lea's "second", since he's not under her authority. He's a cooperating ally, not actually a member of Winter's forces. (And the Gatekeeper's job seems to be checking for Nemesis in the returning forces... Mab, or Lea when she's not there, is the general.)
I think you are wrong there, Summer is Winter's back up,
Titania's job is to protect mortals/the mortal world from Mab. She's a balance to Mab's power, not really a backup. Fighting the Fomor/Ethniu by Mab's side isn't part of that.
if the Outsiders breech the Gates she stands to lose as well.
Certainly (just like any other "Inside" being of this reality) but she certainly wasn't interested in helping in CD. She doesn't seem terribly rational.
Titania can’t add significantly to the defence of Chicago as regards manpower, but may attend if told that there is a significant chance that Harry Dresden may die horribly, it would cheer her up enormously and clearly something she wouldn’t want to miss.
Now that might happen. But even if she shows up I don't think she will be very helpful.
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I don't think he could really be considered Lea's "second", since he's not under her authority. He's a cooperating ally, not actually a member of Winter's forces. (And the Gatekeeper's job seems to be checking for Nemesis in the returning forces... Mab, or Lea when she's not there, is the general.)
I'm not so sure of that, his robes are Winter's colors for example. The scene in Cold Days when he is on a magic carpet seemingly directing the troops, he is a lot more than a Nemesis x-ray machine.
That is why his actual job description is so secret.
Titania's job is to protect mortals/the mortal world from Mab. She's a balance to Mab's power, not really a backup. Fighting the Fomor/Ethniu by Mab's side isn't part of that.
Summer is a check on Winter if it gets out of line.. However I seem to remember I believe it was Mother Summer telling Harry they switch roles eon to eon protecting the Gates. However the main point is, if the Fomor/Ethniu side wins, she isn't going to have any mortals to protect is she? So I
seriously doubt she is going to sit this one out, Sarrisa certainly isn't.. Here is a wild thought that just entered my sleep deprived mind based on Christmas Eve.. Sorry, not a whole lot of logic, but Titania might even get killed in Battle Ground and Sarrisa is the new Summer Queen, which would be the beginning of a new era of cooperation between the Courts.
Certainly (just like any other "Inside" being of this reality) but she certainly wasn't interested in helping in CD. She doesn't seem terribly rational.
She helped in her own way, or rather she gave the help she was capable of at that moment.. She didn't kill Harry for starters, and she gave him the name of the enemy. That last was huge, it helped Harry spot that things weren't exactly kosher with Cat Sith, he otherwise wouldn't have been on his guard.
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As far as the timing for Ethniu, I think we can chalk that up to her Black Council allies. Ethniu may be brave enough to bully Mab, but Winter > Mab. Ethniu needs Winter pinned down by Outsiders (which is what the new kids in the BC can promise her).
The rest of the Fomor's actions/timing could possibly be explained with showmanship. If they can break the Accords by discrediting Mab, the Fomor won't have to fight against a united enemy.
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It’s deferent sets of defenders, the Greek gods were the previous defenders, I suspect the Accorded Nations will be the next set of Defenders,
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I don't think this is why Ethniu waited, but she could have waited because of the recent, at least to a being thousands of years old, combined explosion of the human population and technology is the reason for the attack. It took a few decades for Ethniu to realize the trend of human civilization was a trend instead of an outlier. Then it took a century or two of planning to set up favorable circumstances. How long did it take Kemmler to engineer WWI? 150 years?
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Couple of possibilities about why she would wait. One it could be related to what Peabody did in Turn Coat. Jim never mentions the ultimate purpose of the mind magic. Alternately this could be a working and she is going away to give time for the members of the Accords time to tear themselves apart as the working farts with them. Everybody's amped up and reacting in the odd ways.
Jim spends some amount of time talking about how Harry can throw off the effects of the Outsiders and the opening salvo when the corner hounds port in is a mental attack. It makes the why of the Peace Talks a little less random.
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So much has to do with balance in the DF perhaps the opening created by the absence of the Reds is bigger than just the physical holdings? Perhaps, like spreading out the apocalypse or Necronomicon they were taking up a metaphysical space the fomor can now accupy?
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Then it took a century or two of planning to set up favorable circumstances. How long did it take Kemmler to engineer WWI? 150 years?
Well, this is kind of the question I'm asking.
If Ethniu can kick Mab through walls without even using the Eye, then she has the Eye of Balor on top of that (which Harry says is probably a "city killer"), and she's immune to any physical force (according to Etri) - why does she need to set anything up? Why does she need an army at all?
I mean, from what we saw of the Red Court at Chichen Itza in Changes, I think Ethniu could have flat out destroyed the Red King and Lords of Outer Night without breaking a sweat. (Their "divine will" attack presumably wouldn't work on a much more powerful god, and without that - they were mostly just somewhat stronger and tougher Rampires.)
So, basically, why were the Fomor ever outcasts in the first place if they're led by someone much stronger than Mab and apparently stronger than Ferrovax?
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So, basically, why were the Fomor ever outcasts in the first place if they're led by someone much stronger than Mab and apparently stronger than Ferrovax?
It apparently is a lot more complicated.. Notice Ethniu made her power statement, and she and the Fomor left. They had the element of surprise and threw some weight around, but they didn't finish the job. So maybe they are not as strong as they appear? Meaning if given a minute to get their act together, the combined power of Mab, Vadderung, Ferrovax and others may gave taken them.
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Mab has a big army. Apparently she needs the outsiders to keep them busy.
The Fomor where on the losing side in the Sidhe wars mentioned by Bob in Ghost Story. The Sidhe had a lot of allies then, apparently nobody likes them.
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They had the element of surprise and threw some weight around, but they didn't finish the job. So maybe they are not as strong as they appear? Meaning if given a minute to get their act together, the combined power of Mab, Vadderung, Ferrovax and others may gave taken them.
Quite possibly. Ferrovax says that he won't fight directly since if he went all-out, it would do at least as much damage as Ethniu would. I do think Ethniu is somewhat stronger, since she seems to compel Ferrovax to speak against his will, but he might well be close.
So Mab + Odin + Ferrovax would probably match or outmatch Ethniu.
But even then, it might be inconclusive if Ethniu is a true Immortal, since it's not Halloween. If they blew up Chicago with collateral damage and Ethniu just tries again with another city later... that's not really a win for the home team.
The Fomor where on the losing side in the Sidhe wars mentioned by Bob in Ghost Story. The Sidhe had a lot of allies then, apparently nobody likes them.
Yeah.
I mean, the logical assumption would be that the Sidhe had equally strong or stronger beings on their side. Mythologically Balor was killed by Lugh (who was Ethniu's son, btw).
And maybe the Mothers were more active then, or the Summer/Winter split hadn't happened yet (so the Queens were double power).
Maybe something changed recently to affect the limits on godlike beings. (Part of the 666-year "starborn cycle"? Maybe the "stars are coming right" and reality is weakening before the Outsiders break in during the BAT?)
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Because at core the Fomor are ancient enemies of the Fae. They know how powerful Winter truly is, and have been waiting for the right moment to attack.
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But even then, it might be inconclusive if Ethniu is a true Immortal, since it's not Halloween. If they blew up Chicago with collateral damage and Ethniu just tries again with another city later... that's not really a win for the home team.
I think the point is Ethniu and company are not going to stop with Chicago. It is merely the first, so this is where they have to be stopped.
So Mab + Odin + Ferrovax would probably match or outmatch Ethniu.
Yup, that is why once the surprise was over and their statement made, they left. Otherwise why didn't they have the battle right then and there? Take out the big three and it's all over, oh yeah, no Battle Ground..
Quite possibly. Ferrovax says that he won't fight directly since if he went all-out, it would do at least as much damage as Ethniu would. I do think Ethniu is somewhat stronger, since she seems to compel Ferrovax to speak against his will, but he might well be close.
I think Ferrovax looks out for Ferrovax, he is powerful enough no one messes with him. Just being what he is, he has influence and gets tribute without having to prove anything. However as Michael demonstrated when he saved Charity, dragons are not invulnerable..
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If Ethniu can kick Mab through walls without even using the Eye, then she has the Eye of Balor on top of that (which Harry says is probably a "city killer"), and she's immune to any physical force (according to Etri) - why does she need to set anything up? Why does she need an army at all?
Just guesses. It takes too long to destroy everyone and keep them down by herself? She needs an army to destroy all the other supernaturals. Plenty of beings could just run away or avoid her. She needs an army to keep humanity in their place after kicking over the ant hill. Otherwise she'd be spending all her time kicking over ant hills.
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If Ethnui was powerful enough not to need it, why the big setup to land the suckerpunch on Mab? I mean, in real life terms kicking someone who does not see it untill just before it connects is pretty hard.
If a good karate guy sneaked (out of my class) sneaked up to me (who knows just a little karate) under a veil and kicked me I would not be standing up after he had done a bit of talking. Maybe I would never stand up again if he kicked me in the head.
My point being that she is strong enough to suckerpunch Mab. Which is shockingly strong, no doubt about it. But I think some people read too much into it.
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If Ethnui was powerful enough not to need it, why the big setup to land the suckerpunch on Mab?
Because the goal wasn't to beat Mab in a fight, it was to break down the Accords by proving in front of everyone that Mab was incapable of defending the Accords.
Attacking Mab would be pointless in itself. She's immortal, and even if Ethniu could corner her on Halloween or at some other conjunction, she'd just be replaced (by Molly).
Everybody had to be watching or there would be no point.
Otherwise why didn't they have the battle right then and there? Take out the big three and it's all over, oh yeah, no Battle Ground..
I don't think it really works that way. It's not Halloween, so a fight between Ethniu, Mab, and Odin now would be inconclusive since they are all Immortals. (Not sure about Ferrovax; did Michael kill Siriothrax at a conjunction? It definitely seems like his Mantle didn't pass on and create a new Dragon, so maybe the Dragons are a different kind of thing, not Immortals in the same sense.)
The real threat to Ethniu isn't any of the great powers, it's Harry, because of Demonreach. Imprisoning an Immortal is the only way to really get rid of them.
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But does Battle Ground take place on Halloween? Can immortals only be taken out by mortals only on Halloween? What happened before Halloween was invented? Zeus took out Titans back in the day before All Hallows Eve was invented. So can immortals take out other immortals any time they want?
Technically if she can be killed on Halloween, Mab isn't immortal.
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But does Battle Ground take place on Halloween? Can immortals only be taken out by mortals only on Halloween? What happened before Halloween was invented?
Before Halloween there was Samhain and that tradition was already old when the Christians took it over. https://www.history.com/topics/halloween/history-of-halloween
It is about the change of the seasons so that means it is probably very ancient and important for agricultural societies.
Zeus took out Titans back in the day before All Hallows Eve was invented. So can immortals take out other immortals any time they want?
Technically if she can be killed on Halloween, Mab isn't immortal.
There is also the stone table. We know it works on Halloween but other locations in time and space are possible.
In Changes the sacrifice of Maggie had to take place on a precise place and time. That could very well have made the red king more vulnerable.
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Before Halloween there was Samhain and that tradition was already old when the Christians took it over. https://www.history.com/topics/halloween/history-of-halloween
It is about the change of the seasons so that means it is probably very ancient and important for agricultural societies.There is also the stone table. We know it works on Halloween but other locations in time and space are possible.
In Changes the sacrifice of Maggie had to take place on a precise place and time. That could very well have made the red king more vulnerable.
Ideally, yes, but that isn't always the case... Looking at it from the Fomor point of view, why would they attack when the timing would make them the most vulnerable to being stopped? The table also switches when winter turns to spring, so it doesn't have to be always Halloween.. Then there is the Summer Solstice, that might even be more significant..
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Ideally, yes, but that isn't always the case... Looking at it from the Fomor point of view, why would they attack when the timing would make them the most vulnerable to being stopped? The table also switches when winter turns to spring, so it doesn't have to be always Halloween.. Then there is the Summer Solstice, that might even be more significant..
Because how these things work. When you are at your most vulnerable your enemies are at their most vulnerable too and you can achieve something.
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But does Battle Ground take place on Halloween?
No, it's going to be immediately after PT... it was originally intended to be the second part of PT.
Can immortals only be taken out by mortals only on Halloween?
Only on a conjunction; Halloween is one, but not the only one. The Stone Table Battlefield is another, at least for Fae immortals (as Bob explains to Harry in CD - that's why Harry, Toot-toot, and the other pixies could kill Aurora in SK).
What happened before Halloween was invented?
Bob has mentioned that the "physics" of magic change over time. The conjunctions were likely different at one time.
Zeus took out Titans back in the day before All Hallows Eve was invented.
The Titans were arguably imprisoned rather than killed, though since Tartarus is also an "afterlife" location, it's not entirely clear.
(Although I think Tartarus as prison of the Titans is an earlier concept than Tartarus as a 'general' hellish afterlife.)
So can immortals take out other immortals any time they want?
I don't think so, in general. Bob in CD says that Mab and Titania created the Stone Table Battlefield specifically as a place immortals can die, so balances of power can change in Faerie.
Although CD does say that Titania could pull Mab into oblivion with her... I don't know. Maybe Mab and Titania coming into direct opposition is considered a conjunction? Or actually "automatically" summons the battlefield?
Because how these things work. When you are at your most vulnerable your enemies are at their most vulnerable too and you can achieve something.
Yeah. Bob says that on Halloween "the locked stasis of immortality" becomes malleable. That's when they can increase the power of their mantles etc. Normally they can't die but also can't grow.
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I still like my theory that starborn are walking conjunction points.
Also, being unable to be killed doesn't mean your mantle can't be taken- I rather think this is what the Stone Table actually does.
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The Stone Table most likely was designed by all six Faerie Queens to allow for the apportionment of power between them in instances where this was needed other than Halloween.
I suspect only six immortals can die at that place because the Mantles were set up that way. It’s a backdoor into the the whole immortality thing for those six built into the Mantles. It also allow power to be added to both Sumer and Winter if timed correctly.
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Technically the table unmakes the mantle and just gives the pure energy. Or unmakes the immortal. That's why I think Mab made the current WK mantle specifically molded to Harry.
I'm not sure I'd believe the Fae actually made the stone table itself. Seems older, bigger than they are... I've always thought it was the Earth's hearthstone as it were... The stone part of stars and stones...
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Technically the table unmakes the mantle and just gives the pure energy. Or unmakes the immortal. That's why I think Mab made the current WK mantle specifically molded to Harry.
I'm not sure I'd believe the Fae actually made the stone table itself. Seems older, bigger than they are... I've always thought it was the Earth's hearthstone as it were... The stone part of stars and stones...
I have also thought that it is connected somehow to the old stone structure on Demonreach.